2023 Majisto GWP

[Alexandrina]

2 hours ago, jodawill said:

And they really need to hire designers who are passionate about Lego. You can tell that whoever designed this one didn't understand the theme and didn't care. It's just a day job.

I think this is being unfair. It's one thing not to like a set for whatever reason (in this case, perhaps because you dislike the figures or wanted to see more dragon motifs) but I don't think that can be extrapolated to the designers not caring. As others have said, this set is a pretty good recreation given the parts that exist.

Realistically this is a GWP. We were never going to get the full set of dragon plumes without a proper set to follow, so they're a non-starter. And we have plenty of evidence from other sets that Lego's designers very definitely do care. Just because this set doesn't meet your expectations doesn't mean the designers are phoning it in and deserve to be castigated for it.

[jodawill]

1 hour ago, MAB said:

Sure, it would look better if it had dragon plumes on the building. But they don't exist. Why does that mean the designer has no taste, or understand the original set? If those two plumes were replaced with the original dragon plumes, the new set would be close to perfect. I cannot see how the designer could have improved this design if those parts were not going to be reproduced. Including a brick built dragon would not have reproduced the small dragons any better than using plumes. A couple of blue clips to try to reproduce them at tge same scale would not look good. I haven't seen what is inside yet, maybe there is some homage in there. Whether there is or not, I'm sure there will be people that enjoy this set. Whereas people that think this GWP is the worst castle set ever made can just time their purchases to get a different GWP and not suffer by being forced to have something worse than the jelly bean knights in their collection.

 

If you like the set, I don't want to rain on your parade. I'm happy if you get some enjoyment out of it.

I've been excited about this set ever since it was first rumored. Dragon Masters has always been one of my favorite factions. I tried to adjust my expectations to account for the lack of availability of key parts. But it's still disappointing. There isn't really an alternative either. It's just take it or leave it, so I've chosen to leave it.

The problem isn't just the minifigures or the plumes. Just consider the proportions alone. The door, the railing, and the window are all different scales, none of which are big enough for minifigures. There already is a nice looking window currently in production that they could have used. There are so many different directions they could have taken this. It's just weird.

31 minutes ago, Black Falcon said:

Uhm, which knights exactly are you reffering to here?

I typed the last message on my phone, and it corrected "bean" to "beam" for some reason. I was referring to Knights' Kingdom II, such as this set.

31 minutes ago, Black Falcon said:

Well I wouldn´t have minded if they would have made another gwp of an existing faction. But I think they wanted to do something that is just very Iconic.

They could create sets of different factions, but there are a few key elements that they could bring back to get the most bang for their buck. If they brought back the dragon plumes, they could make new Black Knights and Dragon Masters sets properly. I was expecting this set to have the regular foot soldier with the black conical helmet. That would have been a great choice for their current parts selection. But if they brought back the plumes, they could have used them in this set, in a CMF, and a new Black Knights Castle. I'm actually surprised they chose to recreate Basil the Bat Lord's helmet before bringing back the plumes because the plumes are so much more versatile, and they had the opportunity there.

31 minutes ago, Black Falcon said:

I can´t agree with that. To me the overall build looks good - I am not a big fan of the door though. I mean it makes sense to include but it looks just to little for a door. The biggest problem I have with the remake is actually the missing shield. I can live with them not having the helmet and the plume as it was clear we wouldn´t get that ones.

Yeah, I'm surprised by the missing shield. I was really expecting it to be included both here and in the new Medieval Market Village. And yes, the scale of the door is wrong. They did recreate the shape of the original structure pretty faithfully, but there's nothing here that makes me consider getting this instead of the original.

31 minutes ago, Black Falcon said:

I really like that one. It is like an more modernized version of the original Boxart. I get that the set and the box both aren´t really your taste but you can never please everyone. However just because it doesn´t match your desires doesn´t mean the designers did a bad job. In the end they can´t influence the limitations they have. 

I guess the box is ok for a random free promo. It doesn't really do justice to the original, and the "LIMITED EDITION" text across the bottom really cheapens it in my opinion. It feels to me like this set wasn't meant to be special in any way. It feels more like, "Hey, we need another GWP. Should we do another bunny rabbit? Well, we have that wizard hat, so I guess we could do something with that."

1 minute ago, Alexandrina said:

I think this is being unfair. It's one thing not to like a set for whatever reason (in this case, perhaps because you dislike the figures or wanted to see more dragon motifs) but I don't think that can be extrapolated to the designers not caring. As others have said, this set is a pretty good recreation given the parts that exist.

Realistically this is a GWP. We were never going to get the full set of dragon plumes without a proper set to follow, so they're a non-starter. And we have plenty of evidence from other sets that Lego's designers very definitely do care. Just because this set doesn't meet your expectations doesn't mean the designers are phoning it in and deserve to be castigated for it.

Some designers do care. The guys who created The Lion Knights Castle and the Galaxy Explorer are awesome. Some designers, not so much. It seems to be hit and miss. Some designers may be great at producing new things, but they don't understand the original source material well enough to revive old themes. The plumes on the building and the silver armor on the knight make me think the designer wasn't really familiar with the theme and the color scheme and general aesthetics of the theme were lost on them.

Anyway, that's the end of my rant. I don't want to start an argument or anything. These are my opinions on the set. If other people disagree, that's fine.

[MAB]

20 minutes ago, jodawill said:

Some designers do care. The guys who created The Lion Knights Castle and the Galaxy Explorer are awesome. Some designers, not so much. It seems to be hit and miss. Some designers may be great at producing new things, but they don't understand the original source material well enough to revive old themes. The plumes on the building and the silver armor on the knight make me think the designer wasn't really familiar with the theme and the color scheme and general aesthetics of the theme were lost on them.

Or they did their best based on the design brief and parts available. I guess we won't find out who the designer is, but I imagine they will have worked on other similar sets.

[jodawill]

31 minutes ago, MAB said:

Or they did their best based on the design brief and parts available. I guess we won't find out who the designer is, but I imagine they will have worked on other similar sets.

I don't know how they get this information, but Brickset always lists the designers. The guy who created 10320 appears to be a vehicle expert. He designed the Maersk Train, which is a real classic.

[Aanchir]

17 hours ago, jodawill said:

You know, if we just ignore the minifigures, one of the things that bothers me the most about this set is the use of the blue plumes as a drop in replacement for the dragon plumes. That just shows how much the designer didn't understand the original set. They're not being used as plumes. The point is that they're dragons. It would have made a lot more sense to incorporate a dragon in some other way, like a brick built dragon head. 

Whoever designed this has absolutely no taste. 

I think "absolutely no taste" is a little unfair. I agree with you that I would have preferred a part that read more clearly as dragons or statues, but I figure the designer's intent was to pick out a bright blue decorative element that would be similar in size to the dragons from the original set, which admittedly would likely narrow their options quite a bit. It's also possible that they wanted to make it easy for people who do own the old-school dragon plumes to swap them in if they so choose.

6 hours ago, jodawill said:

Yeah, but those are Chinese dragons. They don't really fit into the Dragon Masters universe.

Most molded dragon pieces from Ninjago (and many of the brick-built dragons, for that matter) are honestly much closer to western dragons than Chinese ones — after all, Ninjago dragons usually have wings and long, narrow snouts, and lack the characteristic antlers or whiskers of Chinese dragons . The main feature that they have in common with Chinese dragons is a small spiky "goatee", which is a trait they share with the classic LEGO Castle dragon.

The only Ninjago dragons that strongly evoke the appearance of Chinese dragons tend to be fully brick-built ones like the Master Wu Dragon, Empire Dragon, and Morro Dragon, and even these are heavily Western-influenced.

4 hours ago, Black Falcon said:

I can´t agree with that. To me the overall build looks good - I am not a big fan of the door though. I mean it makes sense to include but it looks just to little for a door.

Honestly, to me, a tiny door you have to crouch to enter nicely suits the vibes of a whimsical wizard hut! Plus, since the entire workshop magically opens and closes, the door mostly seems like a courtesy to visitors, showing them where the front entrance is and giving them a place to "knock" when they arrive seeking magical favors.

Actually now I'm thinking it's funny to imagine that the door was once functional, but it got jammed at some point, and instead of bothering to fix it, Majisto just got into a habit of using magic to enter and leave.

3 hours ago, jodawill said:

The problem isn't just the minifigures or the plumes. Just consider the proportions alone. The door, the railing, and the window are all different scales, none of which are big enough for minifigures. There already is a nice looking window currently in production that they could have used. There are so many different directions they could have taken this. It's just weird.

…

I guess the box is ok for a random free promo. It doesn't really do justice to the original, and the "LIMITED EDITION" text across the bottom really cheapens it in my opinion. It feels to me like this set wasn't meant to be special in any way. It feels more like, "Hey, we need another GWP. Should we do another bunny rabbit? Well, we have that wizard hat, so I guess we could do something with that."

For my part, this set feels very special to me, particularly since Dragon Masters was my first Castle theme as a KFOL, and Majisto's Magical Workshop is one of the sets from that series that I remember most fondly. And I'm neither surprised nor disappointed by the proportions — as with the Forest Hideout, they're largely faithful to the proportions of the original set, which is what I'd been expecting and hoping for ever since the first rumors of this set emerged.

I'm curious which window piece you're referring to that they could have used — do you mean this shutter? That was one of the ideas I considered when trying to MOC a modernized version of Majisto's Workshop back before an official redesign was announced, but it's designed for a 1x4x3 window instead of a 1x2x2 window, and thus much larger than the shutters from the original set. So even with considerable changes to the front of the building to accommodate it, it wouldn't be able to swing out to the sides as far as the shutters in the original set or the GWP version.

Obviously I get that your perspective differs, and I'm sorry to hear that this set wasn't what you were hoping for it to be. But to me, what we've seen of it falls only a little short of what I'd consider "ideal". And in fact, I'm already warming up to some of the aspects of the design that I initially felt a little frustrated with. I recently noticed that the silver shoulder armor on the knight is meant to reflect the silver printing from the upper corners of the original Dragon Master torso patterns. In that light, I am really glad that the designers went with this silver shoulder armor here.

I'm still considering swapping the helmet for a black one to see how that looks, particularly so that the knight contrasts better with the Lion Knight minifigs from 10305 (perhaps I might go with this one, since it has similar molded cheek guards to the old Dragon Master helmet EDIT: I just checked on stud.io and this helmet would not fit with these shoulder pads, so that rules out that option. Might still try with one of the old dragon knight helmets from my childhood collection instead), but it's possible that the silver helmet will actually look better next to the silver armor than a different helmet color would have. It'll be easier for me to make that determination once I have the set in hand.
 

Still eagerly awaiting more details about the set, particularly its interior! I realized recently that it would be very easy for LEGO to include two more of the reddish brown 1x2 log bricks from the door and one more of the reddish brown 2x4 plates from the balcony as a slightly more detailed replacement for the 2x4 brick workbench from the original set. I also noticed that if they use the flat-topped trunk lid in place of the curved treasure chest lid, it will be able to fully hinge open towards the cave wall, so the contents can be accessed more easily without removing it from the cave compared to the original set (although admittedly, they might want to stick to the old-school treasure chest lid for nostalgia's sake).

Also, even if the floor space on the second story is still likely to be fairly limited, my current understanding of the build makes me optimistic that a simple 2x6 bed/cot could fit up there without much difficulty (unlike the original set, where the 4x8 parapet wall bricks and other elements made less of the upstairs floor space accessible). No idea what techniques they might use for the hearth and the torch that provided warmth and lighting in the original set, but I definitely see a lot of possibilities even within this limited space (and the taller chimney definitely has me very curious about what they might do with that back left corner of the workshop). Whatever LEGO doesn't do with that space, I can always experiment with by modding my own copy of the set!

Edited November 5, 2023 by Aanchir

[Alexandrina]

Just now, jodawill said:

I don't know how they get this information, but Brickset always lists the designers. The guy who created 10320 appears to be a vehicle expert. He designed the Maersk Train, which is a real classic.

I believe some of that information comes from the designers themselves, though how much is a different matter. I seem to remember seeing a list created by one of the old school designers of various sets he'd been involved in over the years (I think he may have been one of the key figures in early Pirates or early Space).

[icm]

Designer information is provided voluntarily by friendly designers. Brickset has no way of systematically gathering that information, nor should it.

[Aanchir]

1 minute ago, jodawill said:

I don't know how they get this information, but Brickset always lists the designers. The guy who created 10320 appears to be a vehicle expert. He designed the Maersk Train, which is a real classic.

The designer info on Brickset is usually added by the designers themselves, or by a colleague who designers with less of an online presence entrust to create a BrickList for them! In 10320's case, Pierre Normandin is an old-school AFOL who was already a popular builder within the community long before LEGO hired him, and he does in fact manage his own BrickList.

In general, my impression is that LEGO entrusts most of these throwback sets to designers with a lot of passion for the themes in question — this was certainly the case with 40580 and 40581, though I honestly don't know who was behind the outstanding design of 40567 (and whatever designer was in charge of 40601 probably won't be allowed to talk about it until it's officially announced).

There are a lot of AFOLs working as LEGO designers at this point, so LEGO is hardly lacking for old-school LEGO fans to choose from for these assignments! And in some cases they're even able to consult with designers who worked on the original versions of those sets or themes to get an insider perspective on what sort of perspectives informed some of those old-school design decisions.

[MAB]

23 minutes ago, jodawill said:

I don't know how they get this information, but Brickset always lists the designers. The guy who created 10320 appears to be a vehicle expert. He designed the Maersk Train, which is a real classic.

They don't always list it, as this data is frequentlymissing. They only list it when designers 'claim' the sets.

[Black Falcon]

45 minutes ago, jodawill said:

I've been excited about this set ever since it was first rumored. Dragon Masters has always been one of my favorite factions. I tried to adjust my expectations to account for the lack of availability of key parts. But it's still disappointing. There isn't really an alternative either. It's just take it or leave it, so I've chosen to leave it.

Yeah, well just see it as saved money then ;). However to be honest, with the set coming closer to release we got different leaked infos that now were revealed to be lies. The Set was said to have two minifigs and prints for Majistos skirt. So naturally, those two things, together with the missing shield were a huge disappointment when the leaked picture showed up - but also beeing honest, I was hoping to see prints on Majisto but wouldn´t have really expected them, same as I wouldn´t have expected a second knight, since the original set had only one already. So while I had kinda to high expectations and there was indeed a big dissapointment at first, the set has already grown on me with time. Still wishing for the shield though. 

Quote

I typed the last message on my phone, and it corrected "bean" to "beam" for some reason. I was referring to Knights' Kingdom II, such as this set.

Yeah, well I never heard that term for this faction. Any special reason why they are called this?

Quote

They could create sets of different factions, but there are a few key elements that they could bring back to get the most bang for their buck. If they brought back the dragon plumes, they could make new Black Knights and Dragon Masters sets properly. I was expecting this set to have the regular foot soldier with the black conical helmet. That would have been a great choice for their current parts selection. But if they brought back the plumes, they could have used them in this set, in a CMF, and a new Black Knights Castle. I'm actually surprised they chose to recreate Basil the Bat Lord's helmet before bringing back the plumes because the plumes are so much more versatile, and they had the opportunity there.

Well people guessed to have a Dragon Knight remake in that Set to get the helmet, plume, shield for the GWP. But that was kinda unlikely, because to many parts exclusive to the CMF would be used in the GWP then. 

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I guess the box is ok for a random free promo. It doesn't really do justice to the original, and the "LIMITED EDITION" text across the bottom really cheapens it in my opinion. It feels to me like this set wasn't meant to be special in any way. It feels more like, "Hey, we need another GWP. Should we do another bunny rabbit? Well, we have that wizard hat, so I guess we could do something with that."

Limited Edition is just their standart they have put on GWPs for a while now. And well on the box we will just have to agree to disagree, which is perfectly fine.

Quote

Some designers do care. The guys who created The Lion Knights Castle and the Galaxy Explorer are awesome. Some designers, not so much. It seems to be hit and miss. Some designers may be great at producing new things, but they don't understand the original source material well enough to revive old themes. The plumes on the building and the silver armor on the knight make me think the designer wasn't really familiar with the theme and the color scheme and general aesthetics of the theme were lost on them.

The question actually is, does  anybody really understand the source material? You never know why they made something like they did. For instance the Black falcons also had black helmets and since the Lion knights had grey ones, it is quite easy to asume that they had the black helmets to show the difference between both factions - but later there are actually also black falcons with grey heads in the old sets. Now when they updated the black falcons for the Medieval Blackssmith, and redesigned them, they gave them a diverent coulour - they kept their blue torso but instead of the arms and legs beeing black they got an other colour for it, and the helmet and armour aren´t black either. So now you could say the designer had no glue what he was doing, but I actually like that redesign better than the original one - in the Lion Knights Castle the black Falcons however are wearing black helmets - and I really prefer the one from the Blacksmith. So while beeing more true to the original in my opinion a redesign doesn´t always have to make everyting just as they did in the original. 

That beeing said. Black helmets exist, and it would have been easy for the designer to use that one instead of the one he choose. However the one he used doesn´t exist in black so he likely had to decide whether he used the black one or whether he wanted to have the knight wearing a plume, even if it is not the dragon one and he choose to have the plume.

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Anyway, that's the end of my rant. I don't want to start an argument or anything. These are my opinions on the set. If other people disagree, that's fine.

I see nothing wrong with an discussion (as long as it stays civil ofc) in the end that is the use of a forum.

[Aanchir]

1 hour ago, Black Falcon said:

Yeah, well I never heard that term for this faction. Any special reason why they are called this?

It's because the Knights of Morcia from that series (particularly in the original 2004 sets) had bright, monochrome helmets and armor, in accordance with that theme's cartoony fantasy aesthetic and buildable action figure tie-ins, and so that became sort of a disparaging nickname for them among old-school AFOLs.

Honestly, even as a fan of the vivid color-coded character designs in themes like Knights' Kingdom 2, Bionicle, Ninjago, Elves and Classic Space, I can't say it's inaccurate to describe them as "candy-colored"! But I definitely recognize that the 2005 versions of the characters which added more subdued accent colors were a big improvement, and that in general the characters in that theme were a far cry from what real medieval knights would have looked like.

1 hour ago, Black Falcon said:

The question actually is, does  anybody really understand the source material? You never know why they made something like they did. For instance the Black falcons also had black helmets and since the Lion knights had grey ones, it is quite easy to asume that they had the black helmets to show the difference between both factions - but later there are actually also black falcons with grey heads in the old sets. Now when they updated the black falcons for the Medieval Blackssmith, and redesigned them, they gave them a diverent coulour - they kept their blue torso but instead of the arms and legs beeing black they got an other colour for it, and the helmet and armour aren´t black either. So now you could say the designer had no glue what he was doing, but I actually like that redesign better than the original one - in the Lion Knights Castle the black Falcons however are wearing black helmets - and I really prefer the one from the Blacksmith. So while beeing more true to the original in my opinion a redesign doesn´t always have to make everyting just as they did in the original.  

There are still some set designers from the 80s and 90s alive (and even still working for LEGO in some cases). Now that Jens Nygaard Knudsen and Daniel August Krentz have passed away, I think Niels Milan Pedersen is the only surviving designer who worked on the 1984 sets that introduced the Lion Knights and Black Falcons (the design team back then was VERY small). But he and possibly other set designers from the 90s like Steen Sig Andersen could certainly attest to the intent behind some of the decisions they made with those old-school sets.

And "understanding" particular creative works doesn't necessarily have to mean knowing firsthand what perspectives and intentions went into them. A person who was a passionate fan of a particular theme or series as a child will certainly have some understanding of what it was about it that appealed to them, and what its particular design features signified to them. That's a different sort of understanding, but one that I don't think should be discounted — especially since even set designers usually try to be mindful of the different ways kids might interpret and play with the products they work on.

EDIT: Something else I just thought of that could be neat furnishing-wise would be if they included a crystal ball! Majisto didn't have one in this specific set, but it was one of his signature magical accessories in 6082 Fire Breathing Fortress, and the bubble helmet piece is perfect for that sort of thing! Even if the set doesn't end up including one, I'm very strongly considering ordering that piece to add a crystal ball to my own copy of the workshop.

I also suspect that the set will include a version of Majisto's magic scroll from the original set. It's doubtful LEGO would include a sticker sheet if they were only using it for the shutters (otherwise it'd be just as economical to introduce a printed tile for those instead of a sticker sheet, since it's just one new printed element either way). But it makes a lot more sense for them to do so if they also wanted to include a sticker for the magic scroll on the same sheet — either for a white 2x3 tile like in the original set, a white book cover piece, or a white 2x3 tile with clips (with the rolled end built like the scrolls in some Monkie Kid sets).

Edited November 5, 2023 by Aanchir

[Alexandrina]

1 hour ago, Black Falcon said:

The question actually is, does  anybody really understand the source material? You never know why they made something like they did.

Not only do we not reliably have any way of knowing the wherefores of these old sets' decisions short of asking the designers themselves, there's no reason to think that every decision necessarily had a deep rationale behind it. For instance, we know that the reasoning for the yellow castle being yellow essentially boils down to "yellow looked better than blue". How do we know, for example, that the Dragon Masters wore black helmets for any specific reason? The designers could just as easily have picked a colour from the palette that looked good, and that was the extent of it.

Beyond Lego, I think there's a tendency for fans to look for deeper meanings in the media they consume, even when there is no deeper meaning. Surely everybody remembers studying literature at school and having to explain the symbolism of various choices, even though sometimes the author just made the curtains red because they liked red curtains.

[MAB]

15 minutes ago, Alexandrina said:

Not only do we not reliably have any way of knowing the wherefores of these old sets' decisions short of asking the designers themselves, there's no reason to think that every decision necessarily had a deep rationale behind it.

Similarly Majisto went from having blue decorative dragons on his workshop to having yellow printed ones on his tower.

[Aanchir]

7 minutes ago, Alexandrina said:

Not only do we not reliably have any way of knowing the wherefores of these old sets' decisions short of asking the designers themselves, there's no reason to think that every decision necessarily had a deep rationale behind it. For instance, we know that the reasoning for the yellow castle being yellow essentially boils down to "yellow looked better than blue". How do we know, for example, that the Dragon Masters wore black helmets for any specific reason? The designers could just as easily have picked a colour from the palette that looked good, and that was the extent of it. 

Beyond Lego, I think there's a tendency for fans to look for deeper meanings in the media they consume, even when there is no deeper meaning. Surely everybody remembers studying literature at school and having to explain the symbolism of various choices, even though sometimes the author just made the curtains red because they liked red curtains.

That's fair, although personally I think even decisions that don't have too much thought put into them at the time can still BECOME meaningful based on how fans interpret and respond to them. After all, Classic Space colors weren't originally chosen for being "old-school" or "nostalgic", but rather because they were some of the most fitting colors available at the time. But nowadays, when a space model uses those colors, it's BECAUSE they've since gained that particular meaning within that context.

As for your literary example, I think the important thing about those sorts of lessons is that generally, creators don't bother making decisions about superficial details like curtain colors unless they have a reason for it — especially in writing, since writers don't have any obligation to describe elements of a scene that they don't want or need the reader to know about. Even if it's just "the author likes red curtains", that probably means there's something about that scene that made them want to include a feature that brings out a positive emotion in them, and because they hoped it might help convey those same feelings to the reader! And sometimes the reasoning behind a detail like that can be something even more basic, like wanting to create contrast between one scene and earlier scenes in the same work (or to bring things back around to LEGO, between one LEGO set and an earlier set in the same theme).

"Meaning" in this sense doesn't have to be anything deep or complex to have significance. And where fans, critics, and educators sometimes go awry is believing that certain types of imagery can ONLY have certain prescribed meanings associated with them. Even in LEGO, red can be used to express negative connotations (like when it's used for "villainous" factions), positive connotations (like how it's often used as one of the main hero colors in themes like Bionicle, Hero Factory, and Ninjago), or simply to create contrast (like the red curtains in the Green Grocer set, which provided a splash of deep, warm color in a set otherwise dominated by drab, cool colors).

Obviously it's easy to overthink this sort of stuff, but I feel like that's still preferable to not thinking about these meanings at all. After all, in the very least, even the most superficial color choices or design decisions give us plenty to talk about here on Eurobricks!

[Alexandrina]

46 minutes ago, Aanchir said:

As for your literary example, I think the important thing about those sorts of lessons is that generally, creators don't bother making decisions about superficial details like curtain colors unless they have a reason for it — especially in writing, since writers don't have any obligation to describe elements of a scene that they don't want or need the reader to know about. Even if it's just "the author likes red curtains", that probably means there's something about that scene that made them want to include a feature that brings out a positive emotion in them, and because they hoped it might help convey those same feelings to the reader!

Honestly, I disagree with that! I've done a lot of writing myself (nothing trad-published, but I've self-published a book and got a bit of a following on some web novels) and I'm forever filling it with details that have no more meaning than to be details - they're filling the world, and giving visual description to a scene that would be bare without it. That's not to say no details are ever important, but there's certainly no guarantee. For instance I have one character briefly described as wearing a purple dress in one scene. Entirely arbitrary; she's wearing a dress, and I picked purple at random to give the scene more life.

49 minutes ago, Aanchir said:

After all, Classic Space colors weren't originally chosen for being "old-school" or "nostalgic", but rather because they were some of the most fitting colors available at the time. But nowadays, when a space model uses those colors, it's BECAUSE they've since gained that particular meaning within that context.

To this I would bring up the point of the new Black Falcons, mentioned by someone earlier in the thread - their arms aren't the black of the original minifigures but pearl dark grey. Lego has a far broader colour palette than it used to; just like everyone was happy for 10305 to be a grey castle even despite its ostensible lineage from 377, the Black Falcons' new design takes advantage of a colour existing that didn't when the old guys were being designed. Similarly, the helmet of the new Dragon Master knight is in a new colour. If there's no deeper meaning than just "this is what the designer picked at the time", then having a better colour now existing in the palette is plenty justification for changing the colour imo. Even with Space, they've supplemented the original meanings with additional meanings from new colours (the colour range of the classic spacemen has doubled since the original run).

[The Reader]

22 minutes ago, Alexandrina said:

377

375?

[Alexandrina]

Just now, The Reader said:

375?

Lol, yes!! This is what happens when I acquire both 375 and 377 in the same job lot, and then try talking about them from memory cos my Lego database of choice is down!

[The Reader]

3 hours ago, Aanchir said:

I also suspect that the set will include a version of Majisto's magic scroll from the original set. It's doubtful LEGO would include a sticker sheet if they were only using it for the shutters (otherwise it'd be just as economical to introduce a printed tile for those instead of a sticker sheet, since it's just one new printed element either way). But it makes a lot more sense for them to do so if they also wanted to include a sticker for the magic scroll on the same sheet — either for a white 2x3 tile like in the original set, a white book cover piece, or a white 2x3 tile with clips (with the rolled end built like the scrolls in some Monkie Kid sets).

That would be great since this 2x2 "magic roll"-tile also was used in Adventurers set 5988. I'd love to get a modern version of it.

1 minute ago, Alexandrina said:

Lol, yes!! This is what happens when I acquire both 375 and 377 in the same job lot, and then try talking about them from memory cos my Lego database of choice is down!

Never mind - as a kid I had both sets , so 375 and 377 were both an integral part of my LEGO landscape of the early 1980s (still having my old 375 today).

[Alexandrina]

4 minutes ago, The Reader said:

Never mind - as a kid I had both sets , so 375 and 377 were both an integral part of my LEGO landscape of the early 1980s (still having my old 375 today).

I don't have quite the same length of history (I got my copy of both in early 2020) but they were the only two complete sets I was able to build in a job lot of about 6k pieces, and sat together on my shelf for several months at the height of lockdown time, so they're pretty much interchangeable in my mind.

(Oddly, my copy of 375 had four of the grey helmet/visor sets, rather than multi-coloured visors as the Internet would suggest the set should have included - unsure if that was an unaccounted-for variation, or whether the original owner of my set swapped with his friends to get a matched set of colours. Perhaps there's a copy kicking about somewhere with four blue visors!)

[The Reader]

4 minutes ago, Alexandrina said:

I don't have quite the same length of history

I'm an old man ...

4 minutes ago, Alexandrina said:

(I got my copy of both in early 2020) but they were the only two complete sets I was able to build in a job lot of about 6k pieces, and sat together on my shelf for several months at the height of lockdown time, so they're pretty much interchangeable in my mind.

Nice story! Each of us has his own memories of that lockdown times. I acutally took all my old LEGO from the storage and played with my kid with it.

7 minutes ago, Alexandrina said:

(Oddly, my copy of 375 had four of the grey helmet/visor sets, rather than multi-coloured visors as the Internet would suggest the set should have included - unsure if that was an unaccounted-for variation, or whether the original owner of my set swapped with his friends to get a matched set of colours. Perhaps there's a copy kicking about somewhere with four blue visors!)

That's interesting news. Never heard of this. But: My copy of 375 had a black and a red visor, but two grey ones ("had" because I still have the bricks and plates, but lost a lot of the minifigs and their accessories). I didn't had a white one, but a second grey one instead. Perhaps TLG mixed the colours as visors were available?

 

We are off topic though ...

[Alexandrina]

1 minute ago, The Reader said:

We are off topic though ...

Certainly we are.

Unless Majisto has a surprise stash of visors hidden in his workshop, but I think that's unlikely.

[The Reader]

13 minutes ago, Alexandrina said:

Certainly we are.

Unless Majisto has a surprise stash of visors hidden in his workshop, but I think that's unlikely.

Who knows? After all it’s a magical workshop …

[Aanchir]

1 hour ago, The Reader said:

Who knows? After all it’s a magical workshop …

Just imagine all the uses a wizard could have for visors!

• When he needs to provide guidance to a monarch, he puts on his Ad-Visor.
• When he needs to proofread the wording of an incantation, he puts on his Re-Visor.
• When he needs to oversee goings-on in the kingdom, he puts on his Super-Visor.
• When he needs to be in two places at once, he puts on his Di-Visor.
• When he needs to distribute curative potions to the masses, he puts on his Pro-Visor.
• When he needs to broadcast a message across the land, he puts on his Tele-Visor.

No wonder he needs so many!

[Alexandrina]

53 minutes ago, Aanchir said:

Just imagine all the uses a wizard could have for visors!

• When he needs to provide guidance to a monarch, he puts on his Ad-Visor.
• When he needs to proofread the wording of an incantation, he puts on his Re-Visor.
• When he needs to oversee goings-on in the kingdom, he puts on his Super-Visor.
• When he needs to be in two places at once, he puts on his Di-Visor.
• When he needs to distribute curative potions to the masses, he puts on his Pro-Visor.
• When he needs to broadcast a message across the land, he puts on his Tele-Visor.

No wonder he needs so many!

Don't forget his visor-ak for infiltrating the robot mech hordes. 

[jodawill]

I don't think there was any deep meaning to the decisions they made in designing those sets. I'm just talking about the cohesion the sets had. The '90s themes each had pretty well established styles that they adhered to across all the sets in a wave. There's no deep meaning to the fact the dragon masters had black helmets. They just looked good that way, and the faction had a consistent color scheme. It's really as simple as that. I don't think they were even intended to be bad guys. Black helmets, red and yellow shirts, dragons, and crossbows instead of longbows were some of the elements that created that cohesion.

Any time they redesign an old set, it's difficult because everyone will immediately draw comparisons to the original. If it doesn't legitimately improve upon the original, it will make people wonder why they'd settle for the cheap imitation when they could just go buy the original. Why not create a new wave of castle sets with all new designs and new factions? That would be a lot more exciting in my opinion, and being different would be a positive thing instead of the negative it can be when comparing a redesign to the original.