Are classic themes dead ?

[MAB]

On 6/22/2023 at 9:13 PM, Alexandrina said:

If any Western set gets a remake it'll be Fort Legoredo.

That makes sense. After all, the name is "Fort LEGO re-do"! 

[evank]

I'd love to see a return of the classic theme "Expert Builder" from the 1970s-1980s. It was the predecessor to Technic, known for creative use of square parts and awesome packaging. 

[Powder Monkey]

On 6/26/2023 at 9:32 PM, MAB said:

That makes sense. After all, the name is "Fort LEGO re-do"! 

Oh my

[Dutch Thriceman]

With 'Super Hero Fatigue' and a continued disinterest in the Star Wars franchise I wonder how much longer these sets sell and work for Lego. I don't really know people anno 2023 interested in Super Hero stuff at all and I hear left and right people talking about selling their Star Wars (minifigures) collections.

If these two giants were to die out I wonder what will take their place... if you look at how poorly these two IP's / themes (not in Lego, idk how well they are still doing for Lego, but in general) have been doing recent times I can't imagine them being evergreen.

 

edit* I do notice Star Wars diorama's / moc's still being a populair presence in events, so maybe Star Wars less so, but I haven't seen a lot of fan related stuff concerning Heroes, I really do wonder about this.

Edited July 27, 2023 by Dutch Thriceman

[MAB]

4 hours ago, Dutch Thriceman said:

With 'Super Hero Fatigue' and a continued disinterest in the Star Wars franchise I wonder how much longer these sets sell and work for Lego. I don't really know people anno 2023 interested in Super Hero stuff at all and I hear left and right people talking about selling their Star Wars (minifigures) collections.

Both are still performing pretty well at the box office and on Disney+. Only LEGO knows how well their sets are selling, but it wouldn't surprise me if SW remains in the top five best selling themes and if they continue to make lots of Super Hero sets while the movies are still popular. The large 18+ objects don't interest me, but the way they keep doing them implies enough people must be buying them to make them worthwhile.

[The Island Chronicles]

 

Does this video clear things up? 

 

[MaximillianRebo]

7 hours ago, Dutch Thriceman said:

With 'Super Hero Fatigue' and a continued disinterest in the Star Wars franchise I wonder how much longer these sets sell and work for Lego. I don't really know people anno 2023 interested in Super Hero stuff at all and I hear left and right people talking about selling their Star Wars (minifigures) collections.

While I'd agree that neither franchise is at the height of their popularity at the moment, I think people selling SW minifigs is more about the explosion in minifig prices in the past few years and them wanting to profit from that, rather than trying to offload their collections altogether.

[MAB]

1 hour ago, MaximillianRebo said:

While I'd agree that neither franchise is at the height of their popularity at the moment, I think people selling SW minifigs is more about the explosion in minifig prices in the past few years and them wanting to profit from that, rather than trying to offload their collections altogether.

True, and the repetition of the same characters in the same outfits with tiny differences. I tend to keep one of each character in a particular outfit. If I can buy a new version of a minifigure with more detail and sell the old one for 10x as much, the old one gets sold!

 

[Alexandrina]

9 hours ago, Dutch Thriceman said:

a continued disinterest in the Star Wars franchise

Is there a continued disinterest in the Star Wars franchise? There's still plenty of interest in the TV shows, and Star Wars as a property remains as strong as ever (and in terms of quality of the production, the recent years are the best it's been since the 70s)

[Dutch Thriceman]

2 hours ago, Alexandrina said:

Is there a continued disinterest in the Star Wars franchise? There's still plenty of interest in the TV shows, and Star Wars as a property remains as strong as ever (and in terms of quality of the production, the recent years are the best it's been since the 70s)

I've heard a lot of talk on views for the Kenobi show, the latest Mandalorian season etc being dissapointing as well as the Star Wars attraction(s?) not performing well in Disneyland (didn't the Star Wars hotel get shut down?). On top of a lot of talk about films/shows being cancelled before being released. Ofcourse as I'm not Disney I don't really know for sure, it's all hearsay.

The last Star Wars thing I was personally really into was the old brief Cartoon that the guy who also did Samurai Jack did. Oh man being reminded of that, if they did more seasons of that one as well as Lego sets based on that, now that would be something I'd be down for.

4 hours ago, MaximillianRebo said:

While I'd agree that neither franchise is at the height of their popularity at the moment, I think people selling SW minifigs is more about the explosion in minifig prices in the past few years and them wanting to profit from that, rather than trying to offload their collections altogether.

Aye, that could be the case.

3 hours ago, MAB said:

True, and the repetition of the same characters in the same outfits with tiny differences. I tend to keep one of each character in a particular outfit. If I can buy a new version of a minifigure with more detail and sell the old one for 10x as much, the old one gets sold!

 

Makes sense.

Edited July 27, 2023 by Dutch Thriceman

[Aanchir]

7 hours ago, Dutch Thriceman said:

The last Star Wars thing I was personally really into was the old brief Cartoon that the guy who also did Samurai Jack did. Oh man being reminded of that, if they did more seasons of that one as well as Lego sets based on that, now that would be something I'd be down for.

They did make one set based on that cartoon after the fact (the Azure Angel)!

[danth]

On 7/27/2023 at 9:03 AM, Alexandrina said:

Is there a continued disinterest in the Star Wars franchise?

I wish! I was sensing some serious Star Wars fatigue during the sequel trilogy. The movies have been so bad, I was hoping we'd be free from the clutches of Lego Star Wars for at least a little while.

But then The Mandalorian had to go and be an actually decent show. And now Asohka threatens to be interesting, and I have seen nothing but praise for the recently revealed SW sets.

[icm]

I think I've said it before at least once - I blame the dearth of in-house Space themes (apart from one-offs like the Galaxy Explorer and the Blacktron Cruiser, and TLM/TLM2 sets that are associated with a movie license) more on Super Heroes than on Star Wars. As I see it, there's room on shelves for three different kinds of spaceships at a time, without much risk that either kind of spaceship will cannibalize sales of the other kinds, because they're different enough to target different audiences. These three kinds are Star Wars, NASA/City, and what I'll just call "something else." That "something else" is more brightly colored, more bold and imaginative and zany than Star Wars - something else that is clearly not Star Wars.

But here's the thing - ever since Guardians of the Galaxy first came out in 2014, the Marvel spaceships have filled that niche of being brightly colored, bold and imaginative and zany. The best examples of that are the Milano and Starblaster from 2014, the Milano and Abilisk from 2017, the red ring-shaped spaceship from 2017, the big Benatar from 2021, and then the Bowie, the baby Rocket ship, and (except for the price) the Hoopty from 2023. Add to those the various Wakandan flying machines that look more like alien spaceships than airplanes (Talon, Dragonfly, Sunbird), the Benatar/Pod combo from 2018, the Quantum Realm from Ant-Man and the Wasp, the Quinjets with colored windscreens and space-alien soldiers for conflict-in-a-box, the various out-of-this-world Spider-vehicles, the Domo from Eternals (bizarre sales flop that it was), and that leaves little room for the distinctive niche of a traditional Space line: a small wave of brightly colored, bold and imaginative and zany spaceships that have closely related shapes and design features.

So, yeah - I do blame the Mouse for the moribund state of that very classic theme called Space. It's just that the Mouse that I blame is Marvel Mouse, not Lucas Mouse.

[Alexandrina]

17 hours ago, danth said:

I wish! I was sensing some serious Star Wars fatigue during the sequel trilogy. The movies have been so bad, I was hoping we'd be free from the clutches of Lego Star Wars for at least a little while.

But then The Mandalorian had to go and be an actually decent show. And now Asohka threatens to be interesting, and I have seen nothing but praise for the recently revealed SW sets.

Star Wars sets survived the prequels and somehow survived the Clone Wars series too. Disney would be hard pressed to find something worse than those.

[Dutch Thriceman]

19 hours ago, danth said:

I wish! I was sensing some serious Star Wars fatigue during the sequel trilogy. The movies have been so bad, I was hoping we'd be free from the clutches of Lego Star Wars for at least a little while.

But then The Mandalorian had to go and be an actually decent show. And now Asohka threatens to be interesting, and I have seen nothing but praise for the recently revealed SW sets.

As somebody who is mostly only interested in parting out sets for pieces and figs while maybe building the set once before doing so I don't mind Star Wars as a theme persé, but I do sigh at the continued re-releases of the umpteenth Falcon or AT-AT etc. Or minifigs that are too recognizable as Star Wars to be used for anything else. A lot of the Rebel figs e.g. are super usefull for Dieselpunk / Trenchpunk / Alternate History moccing, (out of context torso or leg prints) and some of the parts have been great for the World In Darkness group, like the iconic UFA (United Africa) faction, although that's probably not well known here on Eurobricks.

I also have to aknowledge that Marvel/Hero sets have introduced some really cool and useful figs, the soldiers from Superman and Turtles are the only modern soldiers lego ever did and the old Superman villains (Zodd and friends) their armor and helmets are still some of my favorite minifig pieces to date.

But at least to me there is with both of these themes a huge oversaturation in product that's been going on for ever now and I really did wish we'd see more diverse other stuff. Like the classic themes this thread is about.

 

Edit* but big franchise name themed sets selling better (as well as nostalgia bait) is a fair point, Lego ultimately is about making money and so they'll do whatever earns the most. I fondly remember the latest Adventurers wave and Alpha Team as a kid, for kids of more recent years that's Ninjago I suppose.

Edited July 29, 2023 by Dutch Thriceman

[Feuer Zug]

The mass appeal of the Star Wars and Marvel sets is the younger demographic and in many ways, I can deal with this. When they hit their dark ages, I swoop in and pick up their collections for a pittance. Even if the minifigs are missing, the sheer quantity of viable parts of my own aircraft and spacecraft MOCs is worth it. LEGO will chase the money, then the kids will hit their teenage years, and then I get parts packs.

[reinajk30]

classic themes will never die, as someone once said, "new is just forgotten old"...

[El Garfio]

Yes for kids

They are not attractive for nowadays kids 

The only way to maintain them alive is in creator or in the new black boxes adult catalog 

[Agent Kallus]

Classic themes are dead, long live classic themes.

( As in they have killed what they once were but now they are back but in a different way that isn't there wholesale resurrection but isn't necessarily lesser than a wholesale resurrection either)

Also western was never really a classic theme in my eyes, it never came back or had different iterations like castle, space, pirates and town did.

[ZdenekBricks]

@MAB made a very good point with a statement that we need to define what 'classic theme' means because some people thought that it means plain minifig heads, only bricks and plates, etc. For me, all that is vintage. Classical means originating from Lego, not from IPs like Ferrari, Marvel, etc. Classical means 'original' Lego stuff that lasts (for me, at least), so not Atlantis or Power Miners. Classics are Castle, Space and Pirates, at least.

IP-based themes are a riskless choice for Lego. And it works; it's bringing them more sales because people are buying branded Lego themes. 'Oh, that would be so cool from Lego' is the anthem of nowadays. Until that source of new sales dries up, I don't see any reason to make more classical themes. Don't change what works.

Lego has changed, but kids are still able to completely disassemble the Millennium Falcon and build an ugly giant something, so despite more non-interchangeable parts (wedge plates, pointy stuff, Technic panels, etc.), creativity hasn't been affected at all with IP sets. It was always more about the building experience than about empowering creativity.

Despite the fact that IP themes don't seem to be original, from the building perspective, they're stunning. With the current combinatorial explosion, it's true art to make good stuff from Lego. Even AI is not able to build these objects in Lego. There is innovation, but in a different place than we would look for it – it's deeply hidden in building techniques, mainly due to SNOT (Studs Not On Top) and hinge elements and mixing Technic with system bricks.

@Mister Phes and @Khargeust made interesting points about AFOL market share. This is a market with huge growth potential that will undoubtedly shape Lego's way. I would bet that they made Galaxy Explorer 10497 just because of AFOLs. Modern kids don't care about classic themes, but AFOLs can bring them back.

So, to sum it up, classic themes are dead for kids because IPs work better. Classic themes are being squeezed out also because of a limited number of Lego themes and the need to constantly change the portfolio. But growing AFOL customers can bring it back.

[Mister Phes]

29 minutes ago, ZdenekBricks said:

@Mister Phes and @Khargeust made interesting points about AFOL market share. This is a market with huge growth potential that will undoubtedly shape Lego's way. I would bet that they made Galaxy Explorer 10497 just because of AFOLs. Modern kids don't care about classic themes, but AFOLs can bring them back.

Not LEGO but relative to modern children not caring...

 

[danth]

3 hours ago, ZdenekBricks said:

So, to sum it up, classic themes are dead for kids because IPs work better.

I'll never understand this opinion. All us 80's kids played with classic Lego themes for 20 years and we loved it.

Kid's haven't been around long and everything is new to them. It can take years to get invested in an IP and most kids are onto the next thing before that happens.

Seems like it's adults who want IPs. Marvel, Star Wars, Harry Potter, LotR, that's all for adults. I've never seen kids into that stuff, maybe some high schoolers but they're too cool for Lego (until they become adults again).

[MAB]

16 hours ago, Mister Phes said:

Not LEGO but relative to modern children not caring...

 

Children. Always getting it wrong and ruining adult play. :-)

[Mister Phes]

30 minutes ago, MAB said:

Children. Always getting it wrong and ruining adult play. :-)

I think what we're supposed to take away from that advertisement is; the older generation who grew up with the toys are supposed to continue enjoying them as they did as a child, and in the process, inspire the younger generation to feel the same love for them.

 

[SpacePolice89]

On 4/12/2023 at 7:24 PM, Khargeust said:

Do you think this format and commercial strategy by LEGO will last and therefore we may see the episodic return of classic themes exclusively in this form on the occasion of brand anniversary for example ? Or on the contrary, will we see new sub-themes emerge again with their different sets covering a wide price range ? Can it be both at the same time ? What are your thoughts ?

I think that for the moment and in the near future we'll have to rely on Creator and Icons sets when it comes to the classic themes. But if Lego would release a classic theme they would have to make it perfect if they want it to succeed. Not too j u n i o ri z ed nor overly complicated, it would have to be balanced and appealing just like the Black Knights or Spyrius to name a couple of examples. I believe if such a theme would be released today it would be very successful. Someone in the company just have to be brave enough to bring back the themes from the golden era of Lego. It's would be similar to when Chevrolet brought back the Camaro after a long pause in 2010. 

Edited August 15, 2023 by SpacePolice89