The old colours, and later service packs

[Alexandrina]

Okay, first off: I'm starting a new topic out of not wanting to perform necromancy on dead threads. Apologies in advance if I'm retreading old ground, but I couldn't find the answer I'm looking for on the old threads.

Recently I was devouring old threads both here and on Lugnet from the time of the great colour shift (when the old greys and brown were replaced by their new variants, and the palette of Lego shrunk considerably). I'd never delved into these threads before, and curiously found that what I'd always taken to be the reason for the colour change - that Lego had been forced to seek a new supplier of ABS that did not provide the old colours - wasn't true.

In response to the AFOL backlash, Lego's community rep ended up making a post on Lugnet apologising for the decision but confirming that it was going to go ahead. This obviously is well established (we're nearly twenty years on and the new colours are still here!) but interestingly he mentioned the possibility of Lego making available service packs of key elements like train tracks in the old colours, even asking for community advice as to what was seen as key elements.

This leaves me with two questions, neither of which were answered satisfactorily by later threads on the topic - many of which seemed to be more concerned with exactly what the untouchable core colours were.

1. Did Lego ever end up releasing the mentioned service packs? If so, how long were they available and what was the reason for their discontinuation?

2. If the decision to switch colours and stick with the new ones was economical rather than enforced by their ABS supplier, is there any technical reason the old colours couldn't return? I'm not talking economically - I'm well aware that it's unlikely to ever be viable to bring those colours back unless they were replacing the new greys. Simply in a physical sense, is there any possibility of the old greys being revived?

In writing this I'm reminded of the survey from the other year which had a question concerning possibly making old sets available. If the old colours could in a technical sense be revived, it opens up the possibility of remaking these sets of yore exactly as they were.

[Murdoch17]

Since they switched from pre-colored pellets of ABS as used in the old days, I think it would be impossible to bring back the older colors.

[Mylenium]

17 minutes ago, Murdoch17 said:

Since they switched from pre-colored pellets of ABS as used in the old days, I think it would be impossible to bring back the older colors.

Nope.

1 hour ago, Alexandrina said:

2. If the decision to switch colours and stick with the new ones was economical rather than enforced by their ABS supplier, is there any technical reason the old colours couldn't return?

No. LEGO's suppliers will happily provide them with every color they desire. I'm sure e.g. LyondellBassell (formerly A. Schulmann) and others on LEGO's list would no doubt easily be able to re-create the formulas and/ or create the same colors using new compounds. It's not rocket science. A few mixtures thrown together here, a few spectrographic measurements there, some test runs and long term durability tests. And keep in mind that some competitors have the "old grey" and other deprecated LEGO colors in their sets to this very day. It really boils down to the company having made a conscious decision and never having looked back, no matter what the myths and conspiracies haunting the Internet claim otherwise.

Mylenium

[Toastie]

2 hours ago, Mylenium said:

It really boils down to the company having made a conscious decision and never having looked back, no matter what the myths and conspiracies haunting the Internet claim otherwise.

Spoiler

 

Awww - man, another myth busted!!! I am sitting on my old dark gray and old light gray - and all older than dirt colored bricks - to make - some day - a fortune. Waited now for more than a decade and prices are going up!!! I will be rich, beyond my wildest dreams ...

But yeah, sounds like - hmm. So TLG can make dark nougat with a tick of mint, azure ... dark bluish gray, limish yellow-green, light tanish tinted brownish red ... but I was absolutely sure that they can't make old light gray anymore. Because of ... the formula was lost ... and only captain Jack Sparrows can possibly find it ...

 

I agree: They can. If they wanted. Just like that. But they don't - it's part of the game, I guess.

Best,
Thorsten

[Peppermint_M]

To add to the grey discussions:

Old Grey may or may not been created using dyes that had lead in them in some capacity. Of course, when first manufactured it was not seen as an issue (I would hazard a guess that lead soldier kits were still out there to buy) and when they stopped it was when rules were being tightened up. 

Today there are even more regulations to prevent harmful materials in children's toys. 

It is possible that LEGO could maybe get a pigment match created, but it is honestly kind of a drab shade where LEGO bricks are pretty vibrant now. So, apart from a few very dedicated fans, there is not a big market demand for it.

[Alexandrina]

27 minutes ago, Peppermint_M said:

It is possible that LEGO could maybe get a pigment match created, but it is honestly kind of a drab shade where LEGO bricks are pretty vibrant now. So, apart from a few very dedicated fans, there is not a big market demand for it.

I completely agree with this - in a perfect world where money and logistics were no issue, there are definitely circumstances where the old grey would be more suitable than the new one, but really with Bricklink the only shortfall for old grey enthusiasts is the lack of new parts and the rarity of some parts that were introduced towards the end of the old grey period. I know that personally, if I could get a thousand or so of the masonry bricks, the pentagonal tiles and those 1x4/2x2 corner tile slopes, I'd be able to get anything else I could possibly want from the secondary market.

That's not to say all of the old colours would be out of place today (and as dark turquoise proves, there is a chance for some of these colours to be resurrected if the appropriate set emerges). The light violet from the old Belville sets, or the Knights Kingdom blue-violet, would fit right in with the modern palette imo.

Having said that, I think if Lego did decide the old greys needed to come back, most kids would be indifferent (in exactly the same way as most kids didn't really notice the original change). It's clear that Lego see the current greys as the better colours, but I don't think they'd lose money long-term if they switched back to the old ones - obviously they would take the short-term hit of having a pigment-match, though that's presumably the same as it would cost to introduce an entirely new colour to the range.

[MAB]

9 hours ago, Alexandrina said:

It's clear that Lego see the current greys as the better colours, ...

I doubt they have a measure of "better" for comparing old and current colours. I imagine they continue with the current ones to have consistency with sets from the past couple of decades and not need to go through a change again. The original change from old to current was down to processing rather than any colour ideology. Even if they could change the colours, why bother when there are already very similar colours and a change is not necessary for other reasons. A new old grey probably wouldn't match anyway, as even if the colour matched the surface shine and feel would be different. 

[Mylenium]

9 hours ago, Alexandrina said:

It's clear that Lego see the current greys as the better colours

I don't necessarily think that. I'm pretty sure the discussions about (re-)introducing some sort of "warm grey" are just as prevalent among the designers as they are here. At this point it's just that it would muddy up the waters so much, it's probably not worth it. It would only make sense if for instance Architecture was a much bigger theme and/ or they found another excuse to have more shades of grey like for building rocks in Star Wars and Ninjago. Ultimately it's not that they are doing military models or any such thing where you need a ton of subtle shades to represent different camouflage colors. That being said, even if they were open to creating such a color I'd still have much different priorities and would other colors to be done before that...

Mylenium

[Alexandrina]

5 hours ago, MAB said:

I doubt they have a measure of "better" for comparing old and current colours. I imagine they continue with the current ones to have consistency with sets from the past couple of decades and not need to go through a change again. The original change from old to current was down to processing rather than any colour ideology.

Based on what I can find from forum posts at the time, the transition of colours was because of a perceived 'better' colour. There were apparently discussions at Lego about the possibility of reverting the changes, or running service packs of the old colours alongside the new colours - this in 2004/2005 when if consistency was the aim their best bet would have been to revert to the old shades. The fact that they stuck with the change even despite the backlash says to me that Lego see the new colours as preferable.

5 hours ago, MAB said:

A new old grey probably wouldn't match anyway, as even if the colour matched the surface shine and feel would be different. 

But is that any different to, say, blue or red bricks from the 90s and now? Yes you can (usually) tell whether they're old bricks or new, but they can still be mixed and matched.

[Canticleer blues]

On 5/31/2023 at 11:38 AM, Alexandrina said:

1. Did Lego ever end up releasing the mentioned service packs? If so, how long were they available and what was the reason for their discontinuation?

If I remember right, what he called 'service packs' ended up being released under the title of 'bulk bricks' in the catalogs of the era. Bricklink lists these sets under that name, although not every set released in that category in the catalogs is in there- some, like the train bulk brick packs, are listed under the Trains category's own 'supplemental' heading instead. So the releases you're thinking of would be the 'assorted bricks packs' 10145, 10146, and 10147, the 'assorted plates pack' 10148, 10149, 10150, as well as the continued offering of the older individual bulk piece packs such as 10064 and 10046.

It's similar to what ended up happening with the cypress tree packs and the sand red packs of the same timeframe, really.

As to how long they were available and why they were discontinued- can't say much on the latter, but I definitely remember most of them being gone by late 2005 at the earliest, and by 2006 none of the old bulk brick packs were available for sale, I think.

[Alexandrina]

4 hours ago, Canticleer blues said:

If I remember right, what he called 'service packs' ended up being released under the title of 'bulk bricks' in the catalogs of the era. Bricklink lists these sets under that name,

Thanks, that's exactly the info I was looking for! I'm sure if I dug deep enough I could find Lugnet discussions from the time but that site is about as easy for me to navigate as Coventry city centre 

I'd hope if they ever discontinued a popular colour in the future they'd do something similar. Yes, we have PaB now but anyone who's tried to get Lion Knights or tan horses knows how easily Lego run out of stock of popular stuff!