LEGO #21344 - Orient Express

[Space78]

On 11/28/2023 at 10:50 AM, kbalage said:

Here is my video with the motorization attempts, and a short summary:

• Pushing the tender & the loco with the motor under the first wagon is not the best idea, the tender gets pushed off the rails. Might be improved with some tinkering but a simple motor swap is definitely not enough.
• Installing a Large Powered Up motor in the boiler and adding the Powered Up City hub to the tender works well, with a 1:1 gearing it has a good balance of torque and speed.
• With this configuration the tender *might* derail in reverse, but it can be a neglieable problem, only happened once during ~20 minutes of testing.
• Adding the red rubber bands to the locomotive is crucial, otherwise it cannot pull the train.
• The 60336 City locomotive can pull the Orient Express tender & the 2 cars easily, so it shouldn't be a problem for other locomotives either.

 

 

Looks like in your first test pushing the tender & loco, the issue might have been the connecting bar?  Looks like it swings pretty far to one side when coming out of the curve creating a sideways force when the train goes back onto straight track.  Could this be solved by a connection that swings less to the side, like the magnet couplers? 

[lego3057]

3 hours ago, Space78 said:

Looks like in your first test pushing the tender & loco, the issue might have been the connecting bar?  Looks like it swings pretty far to one side when coming out of the curve creating a sideways force when the train goes back onto straight track.  Could this be solved by a connection that swings less to the side, like the magnet couplers? 

That´s what I think.

[kbalage]

3 hours ago, Space78 said:

Looks like in your first test pushing the tender & loco, the issue might have been the connecting bar?  Looks like it swings pretty far to one side when coming out of the curve creating a sideways force when the train goes back onto straight track.  Could this be solved by a connection that swings less to the side, like the magnet couplers? 

I tried it later with different couplers, and it was still pushed off the track. One solution could be the combination of a train motor under the wagon and another motor in loco, but that version has cable length issues. Another version could use 2 train motors, one under the wagon, and a second one under the tender. 

10 hours ago, CrispyBassist said:

One takeaway I see from this is that the adding weight to the tender - around the equivalent weight of a battery box - could help prevent it from derailing when pushed by a power car 🤔

The battery box was actually in the tender when this test was performed :) 

 

 

[kbalage]

I did a few more tests with different track pieces, tried to put the train on a difficult wave pattern. It went well forwards, but in reverse the resistance was too high and the motor with the whole assembly above it was pushed upwards, even with the 1:1 gearing. This is something that needs to be considered, I think the vertical bracing with the Technic beam that @Train of Thought Creations implemented or something similar will be really necessary for a reliable solution. 

[lego3057]

In one of the movies in Youtube, it becomes very clear that the problems are in the wheels assemble of the loko (same problem with EN). The author uses a 9v motor (metal track) under the tender, which hardly works while the loko is in front of the train. When he took it out, the train "flies". It´s really a big difference. On the other end, I think that 2 vertical motors in the loko could be a good solution, too. (with 2 old medium motors it will work for sure)

 

 

On 11/22/2023 at 11:05 AM, lego3057 said:

My first concern with positioning these motors horizontally, is securing them with vertical technic beams, connected to the technic chassis of the loco. I once built the https://www.snakebyte.dk/lego/instructions/trains/steam_engines/br_78_steam_engine/index.php and the motor "jumped" after some minutes of rolling. In spite of being easy to fix, I later decided to take the motor out and go to the push solution.

 

Edited November 30, 2023 by lego3057
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[Train of Thought Creations]

4 hours ago, kbalage said:

I did a few more tests with different track pieces, tried to put the train on a difficult wave pattern. It went well forwards, but in reverse the resistance was too high and the motor with the whole assembly above it was pushed upwards, even with the 1:1 gearing. This is something that needs to be considered, I think the vertical bracing with the Technic beam that @Train of Thought Creations implemented or something similar will be really necessary for a reliable solution. 

Yes, that's exactly why I did that. Additionally, the two gold push pins that brace the rear of the motor keep it from pivoting up and down, and thus help prevent additional slippage. Using both may be overkill, but they work, and I'd rather make something too reliable than not reliable enough.

Edited November 30, 2023 by Train of Thought Creations

[Space78]

9 hours ago, lego3057 said:

In one of the movies in Youtube, it becomes very clear that the problems are in the wheels assemble of the loko (same problem with EN). The author uses a 9v motor (metal track) under the tender, which hardly works while the loko is in front of the train. When he took it out, the train "flies". It´s really a big difference. On the other end, I think that 2 vertical motors in the loko could be a good solution, too. (with 2 old medium motors it will work for sure)

 

 

 

Interesting, thanks for posting that.  If I get the OE and motorize, it will be with 9V if at all possible, so I found this particularly helpful.  Looks like he did not get derailment with the motor on the tender.  I think the only thing I'd change is to try putting the motor only under the leading carriage or one under each one, as that's where most of the weight will be to give good traction.  However, his solution is acceptable, I'd say, for 9V train enthusiasts. 

Quite honestly, the main issue seems to be a lack of smooth motion in the engine drive train.  Something there is too stiff.  I also recall having those "stiffness" issues with the Emerald Knight when I motorized it with PF following the instructions, which the author said he discovered also.  It ended up being too frustrating to me to be worth it.  However, using a 9V motor caused the same issue he is illustrating.  In the end, I left the EK un-motorized.  Something needs to be done with that linkage on the OE engine drive wheels.  For the design to work, those wheels should move freely and not stick or lock up.  Hmmmm.... maybe this is the real reason Lego did not provide a motorized solution?

Edited November 30, 2023 by Space78

[Shiva]

Well, it is for sale now in EU.

+ 2 GWP's. 40603 + 40604

[ThePhatController]

10 minutes ago, Shiva said:

Well, it is for sale now in EU.

+ 2 GWP's. 40603 + 40604

Ordered!

[Carefree_Dude]

My curiosity got the best of me and I bought this.

I'm really curious about the motors especially.

Gonna order lego one too, and do a side by side

[ToledoRails]

Happy launch day! Looking forward to the modifications and builds everyone will be making.

[Carefree_Dude]

Got mine ordered last night, I have a few ideas for the engine

[Shiva]

Carefree_Dude, nice. But, what happened with your box?

21344 engine? I might leave as it is, for now. But might be fun to add some bricks of length + a set of wheels. For example 4-6-2 / Pacific or 4-8-0 / Twelve Wheeler.

[GoHabsGo]

Did someone buy the OE today? I read some news saying there are issues with stickers, wrong spelling of cities, rails being curved (link here in french: https://www.hothbricks.com/sur-le-shop-lego-les-nouveautes-lego-de-decembre-2023-sont-disponibles/)

 

[JasonsBricks]

On 11/22/2023 at 6:27 AM, R0Sch said:

Here is my V2 motorization mod with a Medium Linear Motor 88008 at 1:1 gear ratio. The biggest benefit of this motor over an L-Motor is that it's still available on lego.com to purchase and it's very easy to integrate in a System build. It supports the whole structure and will not move anywhere, thanks to SNOT construction.
I know, you might say it has half the torque of the L-motor, but it's still 4.6x (2.3x) the torque of one train motor. You could also change the second gear pair to z12 + z12 for 1.66x faster speed. Oh, and the mod only needs 19 extra parts. Enjoy!
Motorized_21344_V2.io

@R0Sch this motorization technique looks perfect! I checked out your .io file, however it isn't clear what the new parts needed are exactly. Do you happen to have a list of the parts you can share? That would be super helpful, thank you in advance!

Edited December 1, 2023 by JasonsBricks

[Carefree_Dude]

51 minutes ago, Shiva said:

Carefree_Dude, nice. But, what happened with your box?

21344 engine? I might leave as it is, for now. But might be fun to add some bricks of length + a set of wheels. For example 4-6-2 / Pacific or 4-8-0 / Twelve Wheeler.

Box got somewhat smooshed during shipping. The box shipped wrapped in plastic, which was also wrapped in plastic. Also the box is too small for the contents, the box is straight up bulging with how much is in it. 

[Toastie]

28 minutes ago, Carefree_Dude said:

Also the box is too small for the contents, the box is straight up bulging with how much is in it.

That's one thing one has to get used to, when ordering from the dark side: A full box. Full of bricks ... and not air. 

I am curious about your building experience. Some reviewers actually cancelled the build, as they were frustrated particularly with the lighting - others are simply in love, as they did see that one coming and were prepared. It is an expert building set - no smooth ride, i.e., 1 piece per step build, I believe.

Please let us know. I trust Bricked4You a lot - his review is on the far positive side

Best wishes,
Thorsten

[Carefree_Dude]

11 minutes ago, Toastie said:

That's one thing one has to get used to, when ordering from the dark side: A full box. Full of bricks ... and not air. 

I am curious about your building experience. Some reviewers actually cancelled the build, as they were frustrated particularly with the lighting - others are simply in love, as they did see that one coming and were prepared. It is an expert building set - no smooth ride, i.e., 1 piece per step build, I believe.

Please let us know. I trust Bricked4You a lot - his review is on the far positive side

Best wishes,
Thorsten

I'll let you know! I haven't done much more than open the box for now and test the electronics. The steam maker really surprised me! I didn't expect it, so I tried it out right away and it creates a really impressive amount of steam shooting up. It only lasts for a few minutes though, and I don't really see a way to turn it off. I also imagine it uses a lot of power.  Also the general quality of the bricks surprised me, they actually feel like real lego. Roughly 7-8 years ago I bought some of the Lepin modulars and the bricks had this really weird feel to them, like they were slightly oily or something? also kind of light? Anyways it kinda weirded me out. 

Anyways it'll probably take me a bit to build this, as I've got other real life stuff to do. I also have the lego orient express ordered now, so I will be able to compare. 

[Toastie]

19 minutes ago, Carefree_Dude said:

Roughly 7-8 years ago I bought some of the Lepin modulars

Yeah, MK bricks are "different", I can tell. My experience is from building their Flying Dutchman. It appears as if these are GoBricks bricks, as per comment of a usually well-informed YTber in one of the OE reviews.

Take your time and enjoy!!!

Best,
Thorsten

[R0Sch]

2 hours ago, JasonsBricks said:

@R0Sch this motorization technique looks perfect! I checked out your .io file, however it isn't clear what the new parts needed are exactly. Do you happen to have a list of the parts you can share? That would be super helpful, thank you in advance!

Check the updated V3 or V4 where I posted the extra parts and the leftover pieces. I will not make any instructions since the Studio file is more than enough for this basic mod. You can simply hide all parts except "step 2: new parts" and look at info for the list of required pieces and export it to BL wanted list.

Edited December 1, 2023 by R0Sch
additional help

[Carefree_Dude]

23 minutes ago, Toastie said:

Yeah, MK bricks are "different", I can tell. My experience is from building their Flying Dutchman. It appears as if these are GoBricks bricks, as per comment of a usually well-informed YTber in one of the OE reviews.

Take your time and enjoy!!!

Best,
Thorsten

I didn't realize there were several types of bricks in the non-lego market. 

I'm a few pages into the build, and they do add a lot more parts per step. Its similar to the olden days of lego where you would build an entire castle on a 2 page spread. 

It isn't so bad though, not only do they have the boxes with the parts you use, but also have red outlines on what's added. And it is somewhat ridiculous where lego will now use a full two page spread to have you add a single piece or to flip the model around. I understand they do it for accessibility, it just gets silly at times. 

[Toastie]

9 minutes ago, Carefree_Dude said:

I didn't realize there were several types of bricks in the non-lego market.

Oh yes, there are. And they all - way sooner than later - will merge into the "quality", TLG provides - injection molding is injection molding and by far no rocket science (anymore; times change, bricks did not).

21 minutes ago, Carefree_Dude said:

Its similar to the olden days of lego where you would build an entire castle on a 2 page spread. 

I guess the 1-piece-per-page approach is aimed at people who really did not deep-dig into the LEGO hobby but love the story behind it. And now, as adults, want to put reminiscent of their youth "or" life (Vader, OE, Nikies, cars, buildings, whatever comes to remembrance ...) onto a shelf. Which is of course totally OK, I do it as well!!! But I began building age 3. So there maybe some recollection of "how-to" - and thus multiple parts per page (the more the better) are pure fun - for me. Guess you enjoy the same "challenge".

Have fun!!!

Best,
Thorsten

[R0Sch]

@Carefree_Dude Please keep this topic about the LEGO Orient Express. Not everyone is keen on sets from MK and their obnoxious way of stealing fan designers MOC's, not to mention the non-existing licensing for obvious brands and designs. There is just one non-LEGO brand tolerated here on EB and that one has a separate thread, for good reason too.

Edited December 1, 2023 by R0Sch

[Toastie]

1 hour ago, R0Sch said:

obnoxious way of stealing fan designers MOC's

Yeah, could be true.

At least MK did not literally >slaughter< the design of the engine to the extent, TLG did (apparently in compliance with the licensee). The carriages are beautiful, but the engine is a ... poor, if not obnoxious attempt, and of course, in my humble opinion only.

But yes, if "license" means what it creates: Too bad. So, let's live with it.

Best,
Thorsten

 

[Shiva]

4 hours ago, Carefree_Dude said:

Box got somewhat smooshed during shipping. The box shipped wrapped in plastic, which was also wrapped in plastic. Also the box is too small for the contents, the box is straight up bulging with how much is in it. 

Ohh, that does not sound good.

My Orient Express is somewhere between LEGO and DPD.

 

Toastie, ain't it smaller builds that have 1 part / page? + some Rebrickable mods.