LEGO #21344 - Orient Express

[LEGOTrainBuilderSG]

45 minutes ago, zephyr1934 said:

The guy in my club who seems to know all the leaks said Dec 1, but who knows if he pull that out of his donkey

A famous leaker also said Dec 1st. 

 

[blondasek]

I do hope for a heavy discount next year, let's say ~60% RRP. This way I would not feel so bad for the loco ;)

[ToledoRails]

If Lego is announcing a Dune set launching February of 2024 at the time of writing this, I think it stands to reason that we might get a Halloween announcement on 21344 or so for November or December. The constant pings of comments on reddit and YouTube have kept my interest in the lead up to the set's release longer than usual, and these are just some thoughts that have been stewing.

I forget who brought this up on a Reddit thread, but the "ORIENT EXPRESS™ is a registered trade mark of Orient Express. All rights reserved." has the set philosophy nailed dead to rights as to the choice behind two faithfully crafted coaches that you just so happened to be able to ride on today. It's not too far of a stretch to imagine that they would want a generic steam locomotive (that matches the color) to haul them, and I'd bet the farm that that's what they dictated to Lego in development.
The question then becomes, where did Lego pull this 4-6-0 from and is it based on anything?

It has to be the Prussian P8. Maybe a little sparse on detail, but this is the only locomotive that strikes a couple design choices. Fat boiler, two domes, six wheel tender (as built anyways) and ran in multiple countries.
Over 3,500 of these locomotives were built with 627 sent out of Germany following World War I. Of those, France, Italy, Greece and Romania all received P8s, and were for the Orient Express, where it be the Venice Simplon Express (Crocodile Territory through Switzerland), Arlberg Express to Athens, and Bucharest. If I'm right, and I'm probably not, this decision might go above any beyond a French prototype that could only represented one leg of this famous train. Assuming the creator is a railfan, we perhaps this was also his suggestion, but we'll have to wait for any official interviews, or off the record comments if there's a gag order.
 

Idk... thoughts... comments... reminder to go touch grass? I'm all ears.

[M_slug357]

@ToledoRails well now I definitely want to modify mine to better resemble a P8 even if that wasn’t the actual inspiration source. 
Thanks!

[CDM]

3 hours ago, ToledoRails said:

I forget who brought this up on a Reddit thread, but the "ORIENT EXPRESS™ is a registered trade mark of Orient Express. All rights reserved." has the set philosophy nailed dead to rights as to the choice behind two faithfully crafted coaches that you just so happened to be able to ride on today. It's not too far of a stretch to imagine that they would want a generic steam locomotive (that matches the color) to haul them, and I'd bet the farm that that's what they dictated to Lego in development.

The question then becomes, where did Lego pull this 4-6-0 from and is it based on anything?

It has to be the Prussian P8. Maybe a little sparse on detail, but this is the only locomotive that strikes a couple design choices. Fat boiler, two domes, six wheel tender (as built anyways) and ran in multiple countries.
Over 3,500 of these locomotives were built with 627 sent out of Germany following World War I. Of those, France, Italy, Greece and Romania all received P8s, and were for the Orient Express, where it be the Venice Simplon Express (Crocodile Territory through Switzerland), Arlberg Express to Athens, and Bucharest. If I'm right, and I'm probably not, this decision might go above any beyond a French prototype that could only represented one leg of this famous train. Assuming the creator is a railfan, we perhaps this was also his suggestion, but we'll have to wait for any official interviews, or off the record comments if there's a gag order.
 

Idk... thoughts... comments... reminder to go touch grass? I'm all ears.

This seems highly plausible. The cylinder size and height is a little off but everything else seems to match up pretty well. Ultimately, I suspect the guiding factor for this (in relation to piece count, and therefore, price) was the 16 stud rail: https://www.bricklink.com/v2/catalog/catalogitem.page?P=3228c#T=C Even a locomotive a few studs longer would require another set of rail elements, which then require additional support pieces, which leads to dead space...so then they add additional drive, leading, trailing wheels along with more pieces to fill out the longer locomotive...you can see where I'm going with this. Pretty soon we have a $400+ set. The final retail set was probably the sweet spot between substance (loco, tender, two coaches) and price.

Edited October 24, 2023 by CDM

[Lyichir]

3 hours ago, CDM said:

This seems highly plausible. The cylinder size and height is a little off but everything else seems to match up pretty well. Ultimately, I suspect the guiding factor for this (in relation to piece count, and therefore, price) was the 16 stud rail: https://www.bricklink.com/v2/catalog/catalogitem.page?P=3228c#T=C Even a locomotive a few studs longer would require another set of rail elements, which then require additional support pieces, which leads to dead space...so then they add additional drive, leading, trailing wheels along with more pieces to fill out the longer locomotive...you can see where I'm going with this. Pretty soon we have a $400+ set. The final retail set was probably the sweet spot between substance (loco, tender, two coaches) and price.

Good point about the rail—I hadn't even considered how the single size of rail piece could create a limiting factor for the size of the train as a whole.

[The_Cook]

Don’t rails come in bundles of 4?

So, not just another rail but the whole bundle!

[lego3057]

19 minutes ago, The_Cook said:

Don’t rails come in bundles of 4?

So, not just another rail but the whole bundle!

Not those ones. They cost around .50 each. In this case the set comes with 18

[CDM]

13 hours ago, Lyichir said:

Good point about the rail—I hadn't even considered how the single size of rail piece could create a limiting factor for the size of the train as a whole.

I used the Crocodile base as the guide for my steam Moc and sourcing all the parts for the base becomes a pricey endeavor...in 16 stud increments.

[blondasek]

I just wish they would sell the coaches separately.. :)

[Phil B]

40 minutes ago, blondasek said:

I just wish they would sell the coaches separately.. :)

They do! It comes with a GWP of a small steam engine ....

[Mondo-TRON]

7 hours ago, blondasek said:

I just wish they would sell the coaches separately.. :)

I would think Orient  Express want to showcase all of their different luxurious   coaches/cars.(I have seen a couple of videos,they're super nice).  Two cars in  a set is not enough. 

I could see an add on set. 

[SNIPE]

From what I can tell, the train is 8 wide (for definite)

the track sections are 16L each, but it's not clear if they are normal Lego 16x8 track or the 1x16 toothed single rail track.

If it's the toothed track we'll then it's anyone's guess as to what the spacing is, but I hope it's standard Lego train scale (i.e the rails themselves are 6L apart.

If the rails are 8 wide apart like on  the ucs Hogwarts express then bummer, but I don't think it is.

I suspect they just included some single rail 1x16 straights to save cost since they're cheaper than the 16x8 straight train tracks,  but also so that if you don't own any track you can at least push it along a bit.

or, it doesn't come with track and the track was only included in the photos so that it doesn't look out of place (but I doubt it)

I really hope this comes with a motor and battery box or at least has official instructions on how to add the powered up expansion pack to it.

So in conclusion, I'm 95% sure that this is standard Lego scale because the UCS Hogwarts express is 12 wide and has like twice as many pieces.

But either way, I LOVE this set and am buying it on day 1!

Edited October 26, 2023 by SNIPE

[RichardGoring]

15 hours ago, Phil B said:

They do! It comes with a GWP of a small steam engine ....

I wonder if they'll do alternate building instructions to rework the interiors into a different formation, if you buy multiple sets.

[zephyr1934]

On 10/24/2023 at 12:57 PM, ToledoRails said:

The question then becomes, where did Lego pull this 4-6-0 from and is it based on anything?

Still looks like it is simply a hybrid of 10194 and 75955 to me

[and_ampersand_and]

22 hours ago, zephyr1934 said:

Still looks like it is simply a hybrid of 10194 and 75955 to me

If it's 8 wide like the coaches, it's construction probably won't resemble either of those too much. We'll just have to wait for better pictures.

Edited October 27, 2023 by and_ampersand_and

[Shiva]

On 10/26/2023 at 4:52 AM, SNIPE said:

From what I can tell, the train is 8 wide (for definite)

the track sections are 16L each, but it's not clear if they are normal Lego 16x8 track or the 1x16 toothed single rail track.

If it's the toothed track we'll then it's anyone's guess as to what the spacing is, but I hope it's standard Lego train scale (i.e the rails themselves are 6L apart.

If the rails are 8 wide apart like on  the ucs Hogwarts express then bummer, but I don't think it is.

I suspect they just included some single rail 1x16 straights to save cost since they're cheaper than the 16x8 straight train tracks,  but also so that if you don't own any track you can at least push it along a bit.

or, it doesn't come with track and the track was only included in the photos so that it doesn't look out of place (but I doubt it)

I really hope this comes with a motor and battery box or at least has official instructions on how to add the powered up expansion pack to it.

So in conclusion, I'm 95% sure that this is standard Lego scale because the UCS Hogwarts express is 12 wide and has like twice as many pieces.

But either way, I LOVE this set and am buying it on day 1!

After checking the photos again, I am sure it is 1x16 single tracks.

Standard LEGO scale? I do agree. Just a little bit wider railway cars. A bit closer to scale, that width.

[R0Sch]

I watched an influencer video yesterday on his Venice-Simplon OE train ride. Now I wished this was a no-name train set with just a cool locomotive instead. Funding one greedy luxury brand - called LEGO - is enough of a sin already.

[lifeinplastic]

On 10/26/2023 at 3:29 AM, Mondo-TRON said:

I would think Orient  Express want to showcase all of their different luxurious   coaches/cars.(I have seen a couple of videos,they're super nice).  Two cars in  a set is not enough. 

I could see an add on set. 

Yes please! Really hope this happens but I guess it will depend on how well the set sells. I always liked the club car released after the Metroliner/Euro Express released in the early 90s.

[*thomas*]

This has little to do with the Orient Express, but LEGO really needs to get it's act together when it comes to their train offerings, because currently, it is all over the place. I really like the OE carriages (scale), same goes for the SBB Crocodile and I can see these how these two sets would make a great combination, but LEGO just hasn't enough trains (in the same scale) on offerings at the same time make me very reluctant to buy them.

 

[LEGOTrainBuilderSG]

19 hours ago, *thomas* said:

This has little to do with the Orient Express, but LEGO really needs to get it's act together when it comes to their train offerings, because currently, it is all over the place. I really like the OE carriages (scale), same goes for the SBB Crocodile and I can see these how these two sets would make a great combination, but LEGO just hasn't enough trains (in the same scale) on offerings at the same time make me very reluctant to buy them.

 

At this point, I'm just happy they even bothered to do this Orient Express! 

 

[*thomas*]

1 hour ago, LEGOTrainBuilderSG said:

At this point, I'm just happy they even bothered to do this Orient Express! 

 

Don't get me wrong: so am I and apart from the locomotive, I really like the design (much over the original Ideas submission).

But imagine you are a LEGO-trainfan, but very bad ad making a MOC (like I - and many others - are): what do I do with this set? It won't run properly trough R40 curves, it will look akward combined with any other trainset (apart from the croc) and who knows when LEGO will release something that goes along with it. 

[dtomsen]

3 hours ago, *thomas* said:

Don't get me wrong: so am I and apart from the locomotive, I really like the design (much over the original Ideas submission).

But imagine you are a LEGO-trainfan, but very bad ad making a MOC (like I - and many others - are): what do I do with this set? It won't run properly trough R40 curves, it will look akward combined with any other trainset (apart from the croc) and who knows when LEGO will release something that goes along with it. 

If I were in that position i.e. being poor at building my own stuff but still wanting realistic looking trains, I would not just look to TLG but orient myself to the wider offerings in our train hobby. Other competing brands, boutique sets (BrickTracks, HA Bricks, BrickMania etc.) and loads of MOC intructions for sale or even free (like Open-L-Gauge).
Heck, some competing brands actually offer free instructions to their train sets so they can be built with genuine LEGO if that's what you want.
The main problem is that most AFOLs (and many train fans among them) won't touch anything not branded LEGO in any way (not even 3rd party tracks like wider curves than R40) and thus limit themselves to the very slim pickings from TLG and still bitch about it when it's their own choice 🤷‍♂️

Edited November 3, 2023 by dtomsen

[*thomas*]

50 minutes ago, dtomsen said:

If I were in that position i.e. being poor at building my own stuff but still wanting realistic looking trains, I would not just look to TLG but orient myself to the wider offerings in our train hobby. 

Agree with what you said. That's what I'm doing. I haven't bought a single LEGO set, let alone a LEGO train set in quite some time because other companies seem to understand that there is a market for brick-build-trains. What they do is offer trains, tracks, buildings etc which seems logical, but brings me back to my initial question: why is LEGO producing trains and why can't they stick to a certain scale.
 

[lifeinplastic]

As long as the branding on the sides of the train are not stickers, which will really cheapen the set at not make it worth buying for me.