Technic is no longer what it once was

[MAP Tec]

Technic is no longer what it once was, but with the new parts there are many possible uses

[Jundis]

2 hours ago, MAP Tec said:

Technic is no longer what it once was, but with the new parts there are many possible uses

Just out of curiosity: What was it once and when was "once"? ;-)

[AVCampos]

That leads me to a conclusion I arrived at some time ago, by reading posts here at EB: if you ask 100 people "what is a proper Technic set", you'll get 100 different answers.

[howitzer]

2 hours ago, AVCampos said:

That leads me to a conclusion I arrived at some time ago, by reading posts here at EB: if you ask 100 people "what is a proper Technic set", you'll get 100 different answers.

Might be interesting to do a poll of what people consider most important aspects of a Technic set (functions, realism, playability, looks, faithfulness to real life counterpart, new parts etc.)

[allanp]

30 minutes ago, howitzer said:

Might be interesting to do a poll of what people consider most important aspects of a Technic set (functions, realism, playability, looks, faithfulness to real life counterpart, new parts etc.)

I already did that. 

I don't think it's all that bad though, the airbus with it's new swash plate, the various pneumatic sets, 42099 with it's awesome planetary reduction drives and now the Yamaha with its more realistic than ever gearbox shows that there are still some good sets. And I don't need every set to be to my liking, just a few a year is enough for me. Having said that, where I do think there's an issue is the flagships. I don't think they are too expensive, there's clearly a market for big money sets like the Titanic and the millennium falcon, but Technic needs to find its way a little bit when it comes to the really expensive sets. What functionality or what new level of mechanical realism requires that kind of price tag? Maybe for a supercar it would be a 7 speed version of the new gearbox found in the Yamaha, a more detailed engine with a timing chain driving a working valve system or working pneumatic brakes? For a back hoe maybe it's a miniature pneumatic valve with integrated micro servo, about 10 or 12 of them, to enable remote control of that amount of pneumatic functions combined with a super powerful compressor and an x-box style physical remote? For a front end loader maybe it's fewer functions but done with actual real hydraulics (maybe using water instead of oil incase there's a spill) and an x-box style physical remote?  Bigger only for the sake of bigger is one thing, but bigger for the sake of increased/more realistic functionality is something else, which would you prefer? Which do you think offers more value?

 

Edited July 17, 2023 by allanp

[Maaboo the Witch]

2 hours ago, Jundis said:

Just out of curiosity: What was it once and when was "once"? ;-)

Great, and 2018.

[msk6003]

13 minutes ago, Maaboo35 said:

Great, and 2018.

I will also pick 2018 is last best year to technic theme.

Because one leason - 2018 is last year when flagship set is not licensed.(Not count 1:8 car sets)

[MAP Tec]

4 hours ago, Jundis said:

Just out of curiosity: What was it once and when was "once"? ;-)

2014 I would say. Here we had for example the cargo plane which was full of functions. And one function was not defined to open something by hand but by using gears and lift arms. There were also B-models included which is not the case with every set nowadays.

[howitzer]

1 hour ago, allanp said:

I already did that. 

 

Yeah, I remember that one, but I also remember it being modified significantly after I answered, so it would benefit from repeating. Some wordings in questions and answer options should also be reconsidered.

[MAP Tec]

The new parts will be very interesting and also parts in new colors.

[Jundis]

13 hours ago, msk6003 said:

I will also pick 2018 is last best year to technic theme.

Because one leason - 2018 is last year when flagship set is not licensed.(Not count 1:8 car sets)

Not counting the cars, in 2018 we had 3 great models with the 42078, 42079 and 42082, the Zeux and Forrest Machine were rather meh... in my opinion...

In my conclusion: 2023 was a really good year, as even the small models, especially the snow groomer, was great :)

[artemisovsky]

From my perspective, flagship sets and larger sets are getting better every year (not considering higher prices). The only thing that hurts me is the new TLG strategy - to get an interesting set you have to spend more and more money. Not so long ago you could get a model with interesting functions for around 50 euros, now in this price it is just a ugly vehicle to put on a shelf. True and interesting technic sets with functions start around 100€.

I made a quick summary (from 2013 year) in pricetag 15-90€ (without mini sets 10€ and 15€). It's very subjective and it is possible that I could missed or qualify incorrectly some sets. Anyway, compilation shows the direction of development technic series.

Sets with prices 15-90€ in 2013/2014/2015/2016/2017/2018/2019/2020/2021/2022/2023
2/4/3/4/6/3/4/1/2/1/0 - technic sets
2/2/2/2/2/2/2/3/2/4/2 - pullbacks
1/1/1/0/0/1/1/0/2/0/4 - cars
3/3/3/2/2/3/3/3/4/4/6 - pullbacks+cars
1/0/1/0/1/0/0/1/0/0/1 - motorcycles

 

[howitzer]

24 minutes ago, artemisovsky said:

From my perspective, flagship sets and larger sets are getting better every year (not considering higher prices). The only thing that hurts me is the new TLG strategy - to get an interesting set you have to spend more and more money. Not so long ago you could get a model with interesting functions for around 50 euros, now in this price it is just a ugly vehicle to put on a shelf. True and interesting technic sets with functions start around 100€.

I made a quick summary (from 2013 year) in pricetag 15-90€ (without mini sets 10€ and 15€). It's very subjective and it is possible that I could missed or qualify incorrectly some sets. Anyway, compilation shows the direction of development technic series.

Sets with prices 15-90€ in 2013/2014/2015/2016/2017/2018/2019/2020/2021/2022/2023
2/4/3/4/6/3/4/1/2/1/0 - technic sets
2/2/2/2/2/2/2/3/2/4/2 - pullbacks
1/1/1/0/0/1/1/0/2/0/4 - cars
3/3/3/2/2/3/3/3/4/4/6 - pullbacks+cars
1/0/1/0/1/0/0/1/0/0/1 - motorcycles

 

It's true that smaller sets with interesting functions have all but disappeared except for the 10-15€ range and for small sets we're getting mostly cars, which are just repetition of the same over and over as far as functions go. Apparently there's a big market for them and they give us many new panels and recolours for making mocs, so it's not all bad. On the other hand, there's a limit of what you can do in small set (less than 100€ range) and most of the actually interesting and functional stuff start to happen at somewhat larger scale, around 150€ and up from there. Lately there have been some (but not many) sets in that range which are functionally interesting and have given as some great new parts too so can't complain too much - especially the upcoming motorcycle gearbox parts seem really awesome.

[johnnytifosi]

3 hours ago, artemisovsky said:

From my perspective, flagship sets and larger sets are getting better every year (not considering higher prices). The only thing that hurts me is the new TLG strategy - to get an interesting set you have to spend more and more money. Not so long ago you could get a model with interesting functions for around 50 euros, now in this price it is just a ugly vehicle to put on a shelf. True and interesting technic sets with functions start around 100€.

I made a quick summary (from 2013 year) in pricetag 15-90€ (without mini sets 10€ and 15€). It's very subjective and it is possible that I could missed or qualify incorrectly some sets. Anyway, compilation shows the direction of development technic series.

Sets with prices 15-90€ in 2013/2014/2015/2016/2017/2018/2019/2020/2021/2022/2023
2/4/3/4/6/3/4/1/2/1/0 - technic sets
2/2/2/2/2/2/2/3/2/4/2 - pullbacks
1/1/1/0/0/1/1/0/2/0/4 - cars
3/3/3/2/2/3/3/3/4/4/6 - pullbacks+cars
1/0/1/0/1/0/0/1/0/0/1 - motorcycles

 

Excellent stats illustrating Technic's demise after 2018. I've never spent more than 100 euros on a new Lego set, I just can't justify so much for a toy. There's just nothing of interest anymore in the lowest price range, except some occasional good 10 euro sets. The 50-60 euro range is filled with the same boring, awful pullbacks and licensed cars without any functions. We even used to get great pneumatic sets with B models with 60 euros (that was the 8049, a set I bought during the dark ages because it was just so good).

Coincidentally, I found this article including stats of licensed Technic sets: https://brickset.com/article/95495/licensed-technic-sets-where-will-it-all-end. We've reached 78% licensed sets in 2023 ffs. It's fascinating that 3 things that I despise about modern Technic (lack of B models, licensed sets and elimination of power functions) all picked up in 2019. Technic has just been reduced to expensive, single-use model kit merchandise.

Edited July 24, 2023 by johnnytifosi

[Maaboo the Witch]

2 hours ago, johnnytifosi said:

We've reached 78% licensed sets in 2023 ffs. It's fascinating that 3 things that I despise about modern Technic (lack of B models, licensed sets and elimination of power functions) all picked up in 2019. Technic has just been reduced to expensive, single-use model kit merchandise.

This is Technic in an absolute bloody nutshell. Spot on.

[nerdsforprez]

3 hours ago, johnnytifosi said:

 Technic has just been reduced to expensive, single-use model kit merchandise.

 

1 hour ago, Maaboo35 said:

This is Technic in an absolute bloody nutshell. Spot on

I am no Lego apologist, but we should be cautious of hyperbole. I see where u are going with this statement, but obviously, it's not meant to be interpreted literally. 

[Maaboo the Witch]

13 minutes ago, nerdsforprez said:

I am no Lego apologist, but we should be cautious of hyperbole. I see where u are going with this statement, but obviously, it's not meant to be interpreted literally. 

I'm a literal thinker. Whaddaya you gonna do?

Edited July 24, 2023 by Maaboo35

[allanp]

2 hours ago, nerdsforprez said:

 

I am no Lego apologist, but we should be cautious of hyperbole. I see where u are going with this statement, but obviously, it's not meant to be interpreted literally. 

It might not be true for the whole theme, but sets with control+ are certainly staring to feel like expensive and single use products. The app isn't great for making custom things after you are done with building the kit from the instructions, especially if you are a kid with no coding experience or desire to learn coding, and when the app is no longer supported, it's destined for landfill in many cases. I'm not sure it's hyperbole to say *some* Technic sets, mainly the ones with control+, are expensive single use merchandise.

[AVCampos]

Just now, allanp said:

when the app is no longer supported, it's destined for landfill in many cases.

Regarding future-proofness, personally I'm more worried about proprietary Li-ion batteries (like 8868 and those for the MINDSTORMS hubs) instead of regular AAs/AAAs: as software like Bricx Command Centre and BrickController show us, it's less difficult to support old software than old hardware.

[nerdsforprez]

1 hour ago, allanp said:

It might not be true for the whole theme, but sets with control+ are certainly staring to feel like expensive and single use products. The app isn't great for making custom things after you are done with building the kit from the instructions, especially if you are a kid with no coding experience or desire to learn coding, and when the app is no longer supported, it's destined for landfill in many cases. I'm not sure it's hyperbole to say *some* Technic sets, mainly the ones with control+, are expensive single use merchandise.

You can't use the other several other thousand pieces for anything else? 

 

Expensive...yes. Single-use?  Say what??

[howitzer]

2 minutes ago, nerdsforprez said:

You can't use the other several other thousand pieces for anything else? 

 

Expensive...yes. Single-use?  Say what??

That raised my eyebrows also.

[allanp]

2 hours ago, nerdsforprez said:

You can't use the other several other thousand pieces for anything else? 

 

Expensive...yes. Single-use?  Say what??

Good point! Okay, so about half (value wise, the control+ bits)...... of a small number of sets are......hmmmm.......okay so perhaps the term single use is way too strong, and thinking back I'm not sure why I agreed with it in this context. I guess it feels a bit that way compared to all the previous generations of Lego electronics which are still working fine (except the Li-ion batteries like @AVCampos mentioned, which is also a fair point). 

[Mikdun]

13 hours ago, AVCampos said:

Regarding future-proofness, personally I'm more worried about proprietary Li-ion batteries (like 8868 and those for the MINDSTORMS hubs) instead of regular AAs/AAAs: as software like Bricx Command Centre and BrickController show us, it's less difficult to support old software than old hardware.

Power supply mods are quite easy, Li-Ion batteries are kind of "typical" today. Done few of those, non Lego, but still with custom power source.

Edited July 25, 2023 by Mikdun
typo

[nerdsforprez]

13 hours ago, allanp said:

Good point! Okay, so about half (value wise, the control+ bits)...... of a small number of sets are......hmmmm.......okay so perhaps the term single use is way too strong, and thinking back I'm not sure why I agreed with it in this context. I guess it feels a bit that way compared to all the previous generations of Lego electronics which are still working fine (except the Li-ion batteries like @AVCampos mentioned, which is also a fair point). 

  But control+ does feel that way, even if its not a literal reality, so I get the sentiment.  I also agree Power Functions was a superior electronics package.  

[Erik Leppen]

On 7/24/2023 at 8:14 PM, nerdsforprez said:

Expensive...yes. Single-use?  Say what??

The electronics are designed as single-use, yes. And they are a large fraction of the cost of some sets. As far as I can see in set reviews, the electronic control+ components come with apps that show that particular model, so the whole experience is designed around specific sets. Which I would define as single-use (or, better, single-purpose). I'm kinda surprised that the designers who have said: this goes against the spirit of what Lego is (I'm sure there have been designers who said that) haven't won the argument.

Sure, you could use the 4000 other pieces in the 42100 to build lots of cool stuff. But the electronic components will just lie there unused, which I would consider a waste.

I haven't bought a single C+ set yet and don't see myself doing it in the near future. I haven't come across anything I wanted to build that I couldn't do with good old Power functions. No apps, just good old Lego parts and a remote. :)