Technic is no longer what it once was

[thekoRngear]

1 hour ago, valenciaeric said:

So in summary, the company has got so big it cannot change anything in its processes anymore. I have dealt with it buy not buying any Lego since 2021 and TBH it hasn´t been much of a hardship.

So to deal with it I have to stop buying since whatever Lego released from 2021 and miss the masterpieces/well designed sets like 42128 and 42145 as well? 

Sorry. I won't deal it that way. Yes, you can tell you were not suggesting/forcing it to anybody but it is courageous enough for anyone, least to say. 

Edited October 27, 2023 by thekoRngear

[Maaboo the Witch]

1 hour ago, johnnytifosi said:

I dig out this topic because Racing Brick posted a nice video that fits it quite well, an interview with  Lego staff about Technic's current status and future direction. TL;DW: Lego will stick with blue pins, colour vomit, licensed sets, app control and no B-models. Deal with it.

SHUT UP AND DON'T TAKE MY MONEY!

[johnnytifosi]

1 hour ago, valenciaeric said:

So in summary, the company has got so big it cannot change anything in its processes anymore. I have dealt with it buy not buying any Lego since 2021 and TBH it hasn´t been much of a hardship.

That's an interesting take I didn't think of and it makes so much sense. They said this themselves that effectively they are so rigid that they can't even alter their colour guidelines or they need 5 years for new components, sounding like a convoluted bureaucracy.

Edited October 27, 2023 by johnnytifosi

[Jay Psi]

The answers to the app questions stand out - with the majority of app-capable sets being Technic, it would make sense to bring that development into the Technic team, or at least have app developers on the Technic team (or vice-versa).

It's a shame to see that the current direction won't change. I understand that TLG feel like they have to align to customer/market values (licensed sets, cars, colour vomit, etc.), but there was a time not so long ago when Technic set the trend in these areas and others followed. It does sound like the Technic team, and probably other set-focused departments, are beholden to the commercial juggernaut Lego has become.

I suspect this video (thanks @kbalage for chasing this up) will only reinforce the attitude reflected in the thread title. There's still lots to love about Technic, but not as much as their used to be.

Edited October 27, 2023 by Jay Psi

[AVCampos]

2 minutes ago, Jay Psi said:

with the majority of app-capable sets being Technic, it would make sense to bring that development into the Technic team, or at least have app developers on the Technic team (or vice-versa)

I'd guess there's not enough overlap between building skills and programming skills (ignoring MINDSTORMS for a moment here) for them to do that.

[Jay Psi]

2 minutes ago, AVCampos said:

I'd guess there's not enough overlap between building skills and programming skills (ignoring MINDSTORMS for a moment here) for them to do that.

My cynical self would assert that TLG ignoring MINDSTORMS conveniently removed a large impetus for closer integration between the app and Technic developers.

[kbalage]

1 hour ago, Jay Psi said:

The answers to the app questions stand out - with the majority of app-capable sets being Technic, it would make sense to bring that development into the Technic team, or at least have app developers on the Technic team (or vice-versa).

One of TLG's biggest challenge seems to be segmentation at the moment. Most designer teams can totally work alone (Star Wars, City, Friends etc.), but in case of Technic this approach very much affects the whole product line. Having a separate team for hardware development, set design, Powered Up software development and Control+ software development means that these people work in their own silos instead of working together to make better products. The fact that Technic designers ask for swappable controls for cars and the Control+ team does not implement it shows that there's something fundamentally wrong with the whole approach. 

[Maaboo the Witch]

3 minutes ago, kbalage said:

One of TLG's biggest challenge seems to be segmentation at the moment. Most designer teams can totally work alone (Star Wars, City, Friends etc.), but in case of Technic this approach very much affects the whole product line. Having a separate team for hardware development, set design, Powered Up software development and Control+ software development means that these people work in their own silos instead of working together to make better products. The fact that Technic designers ask for swappable controls for cars and the Control+ team does not implement it shows that there's something fundamentally wrong with the whole approach. 

Didn't the "silo" approach almost kill TLG back in the 90's/early 00's?

Because it's definitely killing Technic.

Edited October 27, 2023 by Maaboo the Witch

[Jay Psi]

32 minutes ago, Maaboo the Witch said:

Didn't the "silo" approach almost kill TLG back in the 90's/early 00's?

Because it's definitely killing Technic.

I thought TLG's near-collapse was more a result of spreading resources too thinly (throwing stuff at the wall and seeing what sticks), and that the "silo" approach was a symptom of trying - and failing - to keep track of it all.

This would seem to be more of a "one size fits all" situation with regard to most departments, Technic being the one that it actively harms the most.

[zoo]

5 hours ago, johnnytifosi said:

TL;DW: Lego will stick with blue pins, colour vomit, licensed sets, app control and no B-models. Deal with it.

If "colour vomit", licensed sets and no B-models are the biggest issues to deal with for LEGO Technic, I'd argue that we could be doing far worse.

App control however, is a much bigger issue I'd say.

3 hours ago, Jay Psi said:

There's still lots to love about Technic, but not as much as their used to be.

I can agree to this though.

I very much enjoy the fact that set releases are spread out over the entire year rather than being bundled up in two waves like before. Also, there are a lot of new parts being introduced to technic this year, and not just panels but new tires, wheel hubs, frames, gearbox parts as well. I for one also enjoy seing parts in non main colour being sprinkled into sets. Like the 42156 Peugeot having the 7x11 frame in lime for example.

Edited October 27, 2023 by zoo

[Maaboo the Witch]

2 minutes ago, zoo said:

If "colour vomit", licensed sets and no B-models are the biggest issues to deal with for LEGO Technic, I'd argue that we could be doing far worse.

You missed out app control.

[zoo]

58 minutes ago, Maaboo the Witch said:

You missed out app control.

Well, I would agree that app control is a bigger issue. Thats why I left it out. I have edited my post to reflect this.

Edited October 27, 2023 by zoo

[Maaboo the Witch]

Just now, zoo said:

Well, I would agree that app control is a bigger issue. Thats why I left it out.

Ah. Gotcha.

[Lego Tom]

5 hours ago, valenciaeric said:

So in summary, the company has got so big it cannot change anything in its processes anymore. I have dealt with it buy not buying any Lego since 2021 and TBH it hasn´t been much of a hardship.

Hasn't been much of a hardship for who - you or LEGO?  I'm pretty sure it hasn't been a hardship for them unless you used to buy several hundred thousands of dollars/Euros a year.

[aeh5040]

I suspect TLG have serious potential problems looming. Part of what made them a special company was being way ahead of their competitors, so they could pursue a genuine vision without being slaves to market forces. Now everything is different. They are perpetually fighting competitors from every angle. At the same time they have become a behemoth that struggles to adapt quickly. It's not an encouraging combination.

Edited October 27, 2023 by aeh5040

[RoosterBrewster]

I just wish they would make non-vehicle sets like official GBC sets that you can collect and link together. Or like a Creator 3-in-1 set but with Technic. Or some kind of trebuchet or even a mechanical clock. It's just boring that many of the mid-size sets are essentially toy cars and a lot of the larger ones are just licensed display models of cars. The 42133 Telehandler is great though.

 

[evank]

Technical sets stopped being good after 1989.

[MAB]

7 hours ago, aeh5040 said:

I suspect TLG have serious potential problems looming. Part of what made them a special company was being way ahead of their competitors, so they could pursue a genuine vision without being slaves to market forces. Now everything is different. They are perpetually fighting competitors from every angle. At the same time they have become a behemoth that struggles to adapt quickly. It's not an encouraging combination.

What date was this change, even  to the nearest decade? 

4 hours ago, RoosterBrewster said:

I just wish they would make non-vehicle sets like official GBC sets that you can collect and link together. Or like a Creator 3-in-1 set but with Technic. Or some kind of trebuchet or even a mechanical clock. It's just boring that many of the mid-size sets are essentially toy cars and a lot of the larger ones are just licensed display models of cars. The 42133 Telehandler is great though.

 

I enjoy GBC and I hope LEGO never make GBC sets. GBC are great because they are fan designed and not official LEGO.  The standards are community set. As soon as LEGO makes two GBC sets that need to be connected together they will have made an official collectable series, probably to a different standard design, and likely to be way inferior to the many fan designed existing modules. GBC is a mature enough fan design community that it does not need LEGO interfering in it, trying to make money from what has become an open community owned idea.

[howitzer]

8 hours ago, aeh5040 said:

I suspect TLG have serious potential problems looming. Part of what made them a special company was being way ahead of their competitors, so they could pursue a genuine vision without being slaves to market forces. Now everything is different. They are perpetually fighting competitors from every angle. At the same time they have become a behemoth that struggles to adapt quickly. It's not an encouraging combination.

This is what I too fear is happening. The competition is really rough, and while TLG's quality is still best in the market, the difference is nowhere near what it was a decade ago, the parts from competing brands are getting good enough that you mostly can't tell the difference. Meanwhile TLG is having their own quality issues (colour consistency is often mentioned but there are other things too) and this coupled with their pricing is driving many customers away. The brand is still really strong though, so there still could be time to fix their current problems and change the corporate culture so that it allows them to keep ahead of the competitors. I hope they are able to do this change.

[valenciaeric]

15 hours ago, thekoRngear said:

So to deal with it I have to stop buying since whatever Lego released from 2021 and miss the masterpieces/well designed sets like 42128 and 42145 as well? 

Sorry. I won't deal it that way. Yes, you can tell you were not suggesting/forcing it to anybody but it is courageous enough for anyone, least to say. 

Indeed, everyone is free to make their own buying decisions and of course who am I to tell them what to do? Losing a 5 figure amount every year will not hurt Lego as indeed they have been getting more money in since I quit than before so it really only benefits me personally but since I was told to deal with the things I don´t like, that´s my way of doing it.

The bigger issue is that they seem to be like a big oil tanker, stuck on a fixed route that takes a huge effort  and time to change even slightly and when they do make big changes like stopping B models, the new powered up / control plus, they are generally not well received by the community.

The next step may even be to eliminate the printed manuals and I am sure they will say it is for ecological reasons.

[msk6003]

It's very disappointing they did not mentioned about program sharing on powered up app. As an MOC builder and who like C+ system, that is most important problem on current powered up app. 

[valenciaeric]

40 minutes ago, howitzer said:

This is what I too fear is happening. The competition is really rough, and while TLG's quality is still best in the market, the difference is nowhere near what it was a decade ago, the parts from competing brands are getting good enough that you mostly can't tell the difference. Meanwhile TLG is having their own quality issues (colour consistency is often mentioned but there are other things too) and this coupled with their pricing is driving many customers away. The brand is still really strong though, so there still could be time to fix their current problems and change the corporate culture so that it allows them to keep ahead of the competitors. I hope they are able to do this change.

I fancied building something new in the summer but since the current range didn´t inspire me as most of it is  more expensive duplicates of stuff I already have (if you have the Bugatti and Sian then you have the Ferrari).

I would never buy a knock-off of an original set (if I don´t have it it´s because it didn´t inspire me or is a really old one with outdated parts solutions) but I tried a Chinese MOC brand and the only real downers were the manual being hard to read and that 2 parts out of 3700 were missing.Everything else, packaging included, was to the same quality as a Lego or Playmobil premium product and the set was technically superior and had the buggy motors Lego hasn´t made for years, which are quite useful.

 

Of course, new buyers are arriving every day and they won´t remember the old prices or models so can only compare with what they know - it´s similar to the dumbing down of the City Police and Fire sets to target younger builders.

Edited October 28, 2023 by valenciaeric

[kbalage]

17 minutes ago, msk6003 said:

It's very disappointing they did not mentioned about program sharing on powered up app. As an MOC builder and who like C+ system, that is most important problem on current powered up app. 

They did not mention it because they literally don't know much about the Powered Up app - it is managed by a completely different team. 

[Maaboo the Witch]

4 hours ago, evank said:

Technical sets stopped being good after 1989.

8459/64/39 and just about everything from 2005 to 2018 would like a word with you.

[Jay Psi]

1 hour ago, Maaboo the Witch said:

8459/64/39 and just about everything from 2005 to 2018 would like a word with you.

8455 says hi.

Japes aside, the comments about TLG departments lacking agility/flexibility are on the money. With the current directive, the designers - who are clearly talented enough to produce high-quality sets - will hardly ever be given the chance, given the restrictions and targets imposed on them.