Horation Posted September 12, 2023 Posted September 12, 2023 (edited) 4 hours ago, MstrOfPppts said: @Horation: No it wouldn't prove that your entry wasn't the best, it would only prove that you did not put enough effort into propaganda. Here I see no benefit for you to improve someone's chances other than feeling good for voting for the potential winner? I don't know, I just don't understand it. And besides aren't the votes in question from the other thread and the main cause of this discussion also just tactical votes? And I guess you think they are alright too? Well guess why everyone is making such a fuss about it, because they think it is not alright! I know you said you didn't want to argue anymore, but I feel like it is important to correct something here. You are making a strawman in the second part of your argument (in other words, you are attacking a weaker version of my argument to make my arguments seem worse than it is). In this case, you first see no benefit in my voting pattern, I don't get anything from "feeling good that I voted for the winner", however, I am more satisfied with the contest's results if the winner is the entry that I prefer, think of it like a sports competition ; don't you want your favourite team to win? Now, to move onto your second argument, you compare tactical voting (voting in an insincere but legitimate way) to those accounts that committed voter fraud (voting in an illegitimate way), and then, to add insult to injury, you pretend that I am supporting this voter fraud, and that others are disagreeing with it because it is not right in the same way as tactical voting. Now not only are those two types of votes different (as I showed above in bold), but on top of that, you insinuate that I, the same user that refused to even temporarily count the votes from those 4 suspicious accounts, am in favour of this blatant cheating because it is tactical in nature, this is obviously wrong, and while I'd have loved to continue this debate, you are clearly not arguing in good faith, so I'd rather we move on to something else and just agree to disagree. Edited September 12, 2023 by Horation corrected some stuff Quote
Yperio_Bricks Posted September 12, 2023 Posted September 12, 2023 22 minutes ago, Horation said: I am more satisfied with the contest's results if the winner is the entry that I prefer Why is it so important for you who wins and if you are on the winning side? I'd think most people just want to see a good contest with fun entries, no? Same with sports. Maybe that's just me, but i don't care who wins an NFL game i watch, i just want to see a good game. I don't care who wins the board game when i play with family or friends. It is completely unimportant who wins. Just have fun! Maybe i am just a good sportsman haha Quote
Horation Posted September 12, 2023 Posted September 12, 2023 (edited) 10 hours ago, Yperio_Bricks said: Why is it so important for you who wins and if you are on the winning side? I'd think most people just want to see a good contest with fun entries, no? Same with sports. Maybe that's just me, but i don't care who wins an NFL game I watch, I just want to see a good game. I don't care who wins the board game when I play with family or friends. It is completely unimportant who wins. Just have fun! I am having fun, part of said fun is trying to figure out the winner, I rarely care all that much who wins, but it does make it a little nicer when I am correct. Anyways, mostly due to my behaviour, we have gotten off-topic a little. Here are the updated tables for all who wish to see : Main category Spoiler Position Entries (in chronological order of votes) votes (of which are provisional votes- only for the entry next to parentheses, not for all entries with that many votes) #1- 278/6292 enchanted island by DannyBoy_4 19 votes #2- 6269 Islander Palace by BrynnOfCastlegate 15 votes 6267 Lagoon Lockup/Soldier's tavern by Aanchir #3- The Lost Lagoon by The Brick Stop 14 votes #4- Saber Island by TomSkippy 14 votes #5- Sin Island by Marooned Marin 12 votes #6- Short Pork Island by Yoggington 11 votes #7- Caribbean Shipyard by Cincinnati 8 votes #8- Imperial trading outpost by Aex383 7 votes Skull eyes Schooner By Quotenotto #8- Base impériale by OMBY54 6 votes #9- 6260/6257 pirates by _R_R_ 5 votes 6273 Rock Island Refuge by CollinsAnimation... 6281 Pirate's Perilous Pitfall by Slegengr #10- Big Kahuna's Atoll by Yatkuu 4 votes Cross bone clipper by Elephant knight Caribean Clipper by TomSkippy 6277 Imperial trading Post by Rogue Redcoat Armada Fortress by Elephant Knight Rock Island Refuge by CaptainDarkNStormy 6262 King Kahuka's throne by SevenDeadlyStreamers 6254+6258 "Remastered Atolls" by Amedeo #11- 6279 Skull Island by MyFirstMOC-Hun 3 votes (3) 6271 Imperial Flagship by Elephant Knight Cutlass reach by LetsBrick Governor Broadside's garrison by US_Army_Tom #12- Forbidden Cove by TomSkippy 2 votes The Hearty Cutlass by Thats No Moon Le Scorpion by Jansued 6267 Lagoon Lockup revisited by CaptainLocke The Hurricane by Marooned Marin Sailor's Hideout by Slegengr Caribbean Brig by Stoerbricker UCS jolly Roger by Hatchpattern Votes Valid as of 2016 EST Eurobricks Board of elections 12-09-2023 Mini set category Spoiler #1- Sloop Windy by Marooned Marin 20 votes #2- King Kahuka's outrigger boat by Kritch 19 votes Fortune Idol by Oky #3- Treasure Island by Oky 15 votes Shark Cart by TomSkippy 13 votes #4-Captain's Cabin by MontyMatte 12 votes #5-6232 Skeleton Crew Remake by Tom Sassy 11 votes #6-1872 Imperial Guard Camp byTheWatchman 8 votes 6235 Buried treasure by Janhanssen #7- 1802 Tidy Treasure by Dr3w 7 votes Caribbean river soldiers by Rogue Redcoat Shipwrecked Survivor by nyugvo6 #8-Hidden Cache by LetsBrick 6 votes Rum Rock by Fraunces #9-Treasure Found by JopieK 5 votes Pirate's Dock by Elephant Knight 1464 Pirate Lookout by Elephant Knight #10-1795 imperial Cannon by CaptainDark... 4 votes Promiscuous sailor by JopieK Cannibals by Valderius Shipwreck of Avedo by Tayaya #11- Failed Raid by SnobleJR 3 votes 6235 Buried treasure by Omby54 Votes valid as of 2016 EST,12-09-2023 Eurobricks board of elections Edited September 13, 2023 by Horation moar stuffs Quote
NOD Posted September 12, 2023 Posted September 12, 2023 This is a great contest with lots of great builds! Every voter can cast their vote according to their own criteria. Some choose elaborate MOCs, others choose simpler Classic Pirates builds. The main prize is the Eldorado Fortress and not 1 million Doubloons. It is a contest that is, above all, fun! Eurobricks has different theme worlds. In this contest the world of the pirate age is represented. There is also a Creative Critic Leaderboard contest. There is a prize to be won here. The people in the front ranks are right there. But there's more to it than just the obvious price. LEGO Pirates Forum News Editor, Pirate Moderator or New Blogger. Every person has different views and opinions. But one thing is for sure, most people who are member at Eurobricks, like LEGO! Quote
F1stzz Posted September 13, 2023 Posted September 13, 2023 10 hours ago, NOD said: Some choose elaborate MOCs, others choose simpler Classic Pirates builds. There's a little nuance to all of it tho... Quote 1. Design a new Classic-Style set Imagine you're a designer working for the LEGO Group and you've been tasked with designing a brand new classic-style LEGO Pirate set. The emphasis is building a creation that could pass as an official LEGO set. The design could be pure classic 1989-1997 style or modern like Barracuda Bay. But remember! Official LEGO sets have a more limited part count than MOCs and the onus is to convince everyone your creation is an official set. Quote 2. Remake an existing Classic set Which classic LEGO Pirate set should the LEGO Group remake next? You show them how it's done! The objective is not create a full blown MOC based on an existing set, rather "update or modernise an existing LEGO Pirate set" in the same way 10320 Eldorado Fortress and Black Seas Barracuda from 21322 Pirates of Barracuda Bay have been officially updated by the LEGO Group. ...but I'll talk about it in detail in the coming weeks within the post-contest discussion Quote
iragm Posted September 13, 2023 Posted September 13, 2023 On 9/11/2023 at 4:03 AM, Yperio_Bricks said: Certainly there was a hugh spark in activity in the pirates forum and 2 or 3 thousand or so comments were written (or something like that) but we will see if the growth is substantial and people will generally comment more on general Lego pirat topics, regular mocs or the pirate RPG mocs This is veering quite off-topic, but if Eurobricks wants to expand, the following would help greatly: Add a like button. I see a ton of great stuff but I don't have much to say beyond "great", so I don't comment. This results in a perceived lack of engagement from the original poster, who is less likely to post stuff on EB compared to Reddit, FB or IG where they can see the likes. Add a daily poll, which is always a good way to spark a lively discussion and get people participating. Add image support. It's 2023, bandwidth and disk space cost next-to-nothing. Ideally, EB would not only host images, but would also mirror any images that get added, so if stuff happens (like the original image being removed), it'll still appear in the thread. The latest PHP-BB has support for all of these, and forums I frequent that have these features are thriving while the ones that don't are slowly dying. Quote
Governor Mister Phes Posted September 13, 2023 Author Governor Posted September 13, 2023 50 minutes ago, iragm said: Add image support. It's 2023, bandwidth and disk space cost next-to-nothing. Ideally, EB would not only host images, but would also mirror any images that get added I have suggested this myself, but according to @Jim bandwidth and space don't cost next-to-nothing. 51 minutes ago, iragm said: Add a daily poll. The forum already has this functionality. What kind of poll questions would you ask? Quote
iragm Posted September 13, 2023 Posted September 13, 2023 44 minutes ago, Mister Phes said: bandwidth and space don't cost next-to-nothing. I think the general idea is that ads on the site should cover the cost of hosting, and then some. If you can't make money on images, how do sites like Imgur, Flickr, etc., stay alive? And that's without mentioning videos which use and order of magnitude more of both. Somehow YouTube stays in the black, and it's not venture capital money at this point. I run a small site with no ads and quite a lot of images and it costs me about $20 USD a month. Ads would easily cover that cost and then some, but I dislike ads so I pay out of pocket instead. I get maybe 10-20k hits a month, if it was more than that, I'd probably need to enable ads to cover the bandwidth. 46 minutes ago, Mister Phes said: What kind of poll questions would you ask? Is there a daily poll somewhere? I see polls, but they are on specific forums, and often as part of a review of a set. Admins posting a daily poll and pinning it to the sidebar is a pretty standard way to encourage regular engagement from users. Here are some poll ideas: What's your favorite theme? What's your favorite set from [X] theme? Of these [4 modern sets], which has the best build techniques? Goats: I have one that I did not pay the current price for, I have one that I paid the current price for, I want one but won't pay the current price, I don't care. Who would win in a fight? Roger Redbeard, Johnny Thunder, Jack Stone, Clutch Powers, Brick Daddy The most overpriced feather/plume is [X] The next animal mold should be [X] The worst minifigure is [X] Stickers: I love them, I don't mind them, I don't really like them, I hate them Quote
_R_R_ Posted September 13, 2023 Posted September 13, 2023 People are still voting for MyFirstMOC's entries, I find it quite disrespectful to other contestants that MFM are still part of the contest when it's quite clear they have cheated to get more votes. As I mentioned before we all know it's just a contest to bring more traffic to the Pirates forum and that the winners are clear now but it just undermines other entries and the rules letting such a blatant case of fraudulent voting slip under the radar simply because they don't have enough votes to win. Quote
Horation Posted September 13, 2023 Posted September 13, 2023 1 hour ago, _R_R_ said: People are still voting for MyFirstMOC's entries, I find it quite disrespectful to other contestants that MFM are still part of the contest when it's quite clear they have cheated to get more votes. As I mentioned before we all know it's just a contest to bring more traffic to the Pirates forum and that the winners are clear now but it just undermines other entries and the rules letting such a blatant case of fraudulent voting slip under the radar simply because they don't have enough votes to win. Yes, plus it could affect the final count for the (super-tight!) mini-set category, we`re still waiting on that ban decision, @Mister Phes 2 hours ago, iragm said: I think the general idea is that ads on the site should cover the cost of hosting, and then some. If you can't make money on images, how do sites like Imgur, Flickr, etc., stay alive? And that's without mentioning videos which use and order of magnitude more of both. Somehow YouTube stays in the black, and it's not venture capital money at this point. I run a small site with no ads and quite a lot of images and it costs me about $20 USD a month. Ads would easily cover that cost and then some, but I dislike ads so I pay out of pocket instead. I get maybe 10-20k hits a month, if it was more than that, I'd probably need to enable ads to cover the bandwidth. Is there a daily poll somewhere? I see polls, but they are on specific forums, and often as part of a review of a set. Admins posting a daily poll and pinning it to the sidebar is a pretty standard way to encourage regular engagement from users. Here are some poll ideas: What's your favorite theme? What's your favorite set from [X] theme? Of these [4 modern sets], which has the best build techniques? Goats: I have one that I did not pay the current price for, I have one that I paid the current price for, I want one but won't pay the current price, I don't care. Who would win in a fight? Roger Redbeard, Johnny Thunder, Jack Stone, Clutch Powers, Brick Daddy The most overpriced feather/plume is [X] The next animal mold should be [X] The worst minifigure is [X] Stickers: I love them, I don't mind them, I don't really like them, I hate them There could definitively be such a poll, and a like button doesn`t take a lot of bandwith, otherwise having an affiliate link to Lego or accepting sponsorships from custom-Lego products (like brickset does) is a good way to help pay for costs. Quote
Governor Mister Phes Posted September 14, 2023 Author Governor Posted September 14, 2023 10 hours ago, _R_R_ said: People are still voting for MyFirstMOC's entries, I find it quite disrespectful to other contestants that MFM are still part of the contest when it's quite clear they have cheated to get more votes. Before we ban someone, what makes it clear that he cheated? And it wasn't someone acting on his behalf, but without his knowledge? Two voters have not been included in the official count: Akdouble - created a new topic to vote Edward Kenway Captain - failed to vote for any Mini Set entries 9 hours ago, Horation said: Yes, plus it could affect the final count for the (super-tight!) mini-set category, we`re still waiting on that ban decision, @Mister Phes It's certainly not affecting the final count. Clear winners for each category have emerged and entries in both categories have jumped ahead. MyFirstMOC-Hun didn't enter in the Mini Set category so voting for him has no affect in that category whatsoever . Quote
Rogue Redcoat Posted September 14, 2023 Posted September 14, 2023 7 hours ago, Mister Phes said: Before we ban someone, what makes it clear that he cheated? And it wasn't someone acting on his behalf, but without his knowledge? I recall on the Classic Pirates website that it was stated one of the new members had the same IP address as the builder, I say we ban him and perhaps wait to see if the other guys respond (I doubt it, but...) Also, do we know about @Tibcsi83 and his votes? And isn't it all very suspicious that all the votes took place on September 6th? Just another reason to ban them Quote
Jim Posted September 14, 2023 Posted September 14, 2023 21 hours ago, Mister Phes said: I have suggested this myself, but according to @Jim bandwidth and space don't cost next-to-nothing. We are not an image hosting service. I am open for debate, but I don't think we should host terrabytes of images. Obviously, some smaller images like icons etc are perfectly fine. 22 hours ago, iragm said: This is veering quite off-topic, but if Eurobricks wants to expand, the following would help greatly: Add image support. It's 2023, bandwidth and disk space cost next-to-nothing. Ideally, EB would not only host images, but would also mirror any images that get added, so if stuff happens (like the original image being removed), it'll still appear in the thread. The latest PHP-BB has support for all of these, and forums I frequent that have these features are thriving while the ones that don't are slowly dying. While I am definitely in favor of exploring this option, at the moment we are losing money (i.e. our income from ads is lower than our hosting costs). So adding more hosting costs (even if this is minor) is not viable at the moment. Maybe we should reconsider our hosting options and I would love to discuss this. Because I do agree it is probably the #1 issue with this forum, especially using it Mobile. Quote
iragm Posted September 14, 2023 Posted September 14, 2023 1 hour ago, Jim said: While I am definitely in favor of exploring this option, at the moment we are losing money (i.e. our income from ads is lower than our hosting costs). So adding more hosting costs (even if this is minor) is not viable at the moment. Maybe we should reconsider our hosting options and I would love to discuss this. Sounds like a death spiral -- can't add features to stay competitive because there isn't enough funding, so users leave for other platforms, removing more funding. You have the Google Analytics (or similar) data for traffic to observe the trends, I assume. I have no idea what you are doing for hosting or ads, but the AFOL demographic doesn't seem particularly well versed in adblock, so there should be a way to keep this site viable. Certainly, the demographic that visits here is a cut above Reddit and Insta, and the quality of the discussions reflect that. It would be a shame to lose this site, only Rebrickable comes close to the content here. Especially when Lego is close to an all time high in adult popularity. 1 hour ago, Jim said: Because I do agree it is probably the #1 issue with this forum, especially using it Mobile. 75% of my site traffic is mobile. Having a clean and simple mobile experience is critical for any site in this day and age. If users have to post stuff on Insta or Flickr or Imgur and then come back here to post it again...well, they simply won't post it here at all. It's a minor annoyance on desktop. On mobile, it's a deal-breaker. Quote
Governor Mister Phes Posted September 14, 2023 Author Governor Posted September 14, 2023 3 hours ago, Rogue Redcoat said: , I say we ban him and perhaps wait to see if the other guys respond (I doubt it, but...) So by "ban" do you mean ban him from Eurobricks or just disqualify him from the contest? 3 hours ago, Rogue Redcoat said: Also, do we know about @Tibcsi83 and his votes? And isn't it all very suspicious that all the votes took place on September 6th? Just another reason to ban them Yes, it is suspicious hence why we're having this conversation. Unlike @Akdouble and @Edward Kenway Captain, @Tibcsi83 voted for Mini Set entries. Nonetheless, I have contacted all three via Email and Eurobricks private message, so if I don't receive a reply for any of them, it's crunch time! Quote
_R_R_ Posted September 14, 2023 Posted September 14, 2023 11 hours ago, Mister Phes said: Before we ban someone, what makes it clear that he cheated? And it wasn't someone acting on his behalf, but without his knowledge? Two voters have not been included in the official count: Akdouble - created a new topic to vote Edward Kenway Captain - failed to vote for any Mini Set entries It's certainly not affecting the final count. Clear winners for each category have emerged and entries in both categories have jumped ahead. MyFirstMOC-Hun didn't enter in the Mini Set category so voting for him has no affect in that category whatsoever . As others have mentioned the fact some of the accounts were made on the same day and from Hungary no less makes it highly suspicious and by now I'm sure MyFirstMOC has seen people pointing out these fishy votes yet has not said a word. Also the new accounts that voted for their entries have not acknowledged any of this this or posted since then which says everything you need to know. As far as banning someone that shouldn't be for users to decide, mods should decide what punishment is more adequate but I do believe MFM should be disqualified from the contest. Many people voted for at least one of their entries and those votes could've gone for other contestants who didn't resort to cheating. Quote
Horation Posted September 14, 2023 Posted September 14, 2023 (edited) 17 hours ago, Mister Phes said: Before we ban someone, what makes it clear that he cheated? And it wasn't someone acting on his behalf, but without his knowledge? Two voters have not been included in the official count: Akdouble - created a new topic to vote Edward Kenway Captain - failed to vote for any Mini Set entries It's certainly not affecting the final count. Clear winners for each category have emerged and entries in both categories have jumped ahead. MyFirstMOC-Hun didn't enter in the Mini Set category so voting for him has no affect in that category whatsoever . Well, even if he didn't do it (and hence shouldn't be banned from the site), banning him from the contest is the right thing to do. As for the mini-set category, I didn't enter any build whatsoever in any category, so the result will not affect my (0%) chance of winning, by that logic, should I be allowed to vote 20 times in one category? Of course not you will say, but then why is MyFirstMOC being given this privilege? It seems really unfair to others, especially since he's done the opposite of earning it... Edited September 14, 2023 by Horation Misatke Quote
Governor Mister Phes Posted September 14, 2023 Author Governor Posted September 14, 2023 44 minutes ago, Horation said: Well, even if he didn't do it (and hence shouldn't be banned from the site), banning him from the contest is the right thing to do. So we should ban an entrant for an action taken by other members, even if the entrant is unaware of their activity? 44 minutes ago, Horation said: should I be allowed to vote 20 times in one category? Of course not you will say, but then why does MyFirstMOC being given this privilege? No, he doesn't have that privilege. The reason action hasn't been taken is because we've being conducting an investigation. Just to clarify, this isn't the police department so we don't get paid full time to investigate potential fraud. It turns out that Edward Kenway Captain has a real name and a Facebook account (in his real name) with 1,000+ friends, and it has existed long before the contest was announced. So he is definitely not the same person as the builder, because the builder also posts in the Classic Pirates Facebook Group regularly. 1 hour ago, _R_R_ said: I'm sure MyFirstMOC has seen people pointing out these fishy votes yet has not said a word. He may not have noticed the posts... @MyFirstMOC-Hun - do you have any input on this matter? Quote
Jim Posted September 14, 2023 Posted September 14, 2023 2 hours ago, iragm said: Sounds like a death spiral -- can't add features to stay competitive because there isn't enough funding, so users leave for other platforms, removing more funding. You have the Google Analytics (or similar) data for traffic to observe the trends, I assume. It's not that dramatic, but we need to take some action in the near future. Maybe I will contact you later via PM to discuss things further. Quote
F1stzz Posted September 14, 2023 Posted September 14, 2023 I'll mention here again that MyFirstMOC has an Insta account with a solid audience where he posts regularly & where he has been promoting his entries too — hence this is where some of the aforementioned guys might have come from. I know Classic Pirates mods are aware of that as well, cuz CP Insta acc has left a comment under MyFirstMOC's promotional post on September 2nd, I believe. All I'm saying is let the admins cook Quote
Rogue Redcoat Posted September 14, 2023 Posted September 14, 2023 6 hours ago, Mister Phes said: So by "ban" do you mean ban him from Eurobricks or just disqualify him from the contest? I feel ban them from Eurobricks, but that's not my choice, do others have a say on this matter? Quote
Ardelon Posted September 14, 2023 Posted September 14, 2023 It seems to me that some people are too quick to assume fraud - MyFirstMOC is a Hungarian FOL with a following, so it doesnt seem that far-fetched to assume that on a certain day he let them know this contest was going on, perhaps asked them to support him (or perhaps not), and on that same day several of his compatriots made an account solely to vote for him, without intending to visit the site further - since the rules allowed them to do so. No fraud necessary, simply a negative side effect of influencer culture. Of course, I could be completely wrong, which is where the official staff investigation comes in. I would add my voice to those saying that there should be a rule barring members who joined after the start of a contest from voting. I understand that not having this rule was meant to lower the entry barrier for potential engaged new members who would stick around, but I think the sour taste of situations like this outweighs any such benefit. This approach would have its own problems though. Would new member also be barred from entering the contest? That could be a loss. Could they enter, but not be allowed to vote? That could be a turn-off. Would they be allowed to vote as long as they posted an entry? Someone already mentioned the risk that people might post low-effort entries just to get the right to vote for a particular user. I look forward to the post-contest discussion. Quote
Horation Posted September 14, 2023 Posted September 14, 2023 5 hours ago, Mister Phes said: So we should ban an entrant for an action taken by other members, even if the entrant is unaware of their activity? No, he doesn't have that privilege. The reason action hasn't been taken is because we've being conducting an investigation. Just to clarify, this isn't the police department so we don't get paid full time to investigate potential fraud. It turns out that Edward Kenway Captain has a real name and a Facebook account (in his real name) with 1,000+ friends, and it has existed long before the contest was announced. So he is definitely not the same person as the builder, because the builder also posts in the Classic Pirates Facebook Group regularly. He may not have noticed the posts... @MyFirstMOC-Hun - do you have any input on this matter? I understand that you have an investigation (and a 1000 other things to do...), so I hope I didn't come off as too aggressive, but you yourself said that one of those accounts (which did nothing more than vote for him) had the same IP as him, and while that might be explainable, it is really weird... 1 minute ago, Ardelon said: MyFirstMOC is a Hungarian FOL with a following, so it doesnt seem that far-fetched to assume that on a certain day he let them know this contest was going on, perhaps asked them to support him (or perhaps not), and on that same day several of his compatriots made an account solely to vote for him, without intending to visit the site further This is the problematic point, this user likely encouraged others to create an account just to vote, so nothing too useful... Quote
Yperio_Bricks Posted September 14, 2023 Posted September 14, 2023 This is a discussion forum and users that only register to vote and then are never seen again are the most useless thing on earth Quote
Horation Posted September 15, 2023 Posted September 15, 2023 This kind of stuff is why having a few qualified judges is a better idea. I say remove MyFirstMoc from the contest so no else ever gets the clever idea to ask their followers to vote for them in such a way. Quote
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