[CONTEST] Return of the Classic Pirates - Vote Counting

[Mister Phes]

4 hours ago, _R_R_ said:

I agree with those saying there should be more slots for voting, 4 or 5 seems ideal given the amount of entries in the contest and gives more people a chance.

Another potential issue is enforcing 5 votes may deter the more casual observers from voting.

Everyone who has posted in this topic has been following the contest and deeply invested, so they're familiar with the entries.

But someone who checks the forum once per week may find choosing 5 entries an arduous task.

So perhaps it should be minimum of 3 votes and maximum of 5 votes.

[Mazin]

5 hours ago, Mister Phes said:

Another potential issue is enforcing 5 votes may deter the more casual observers from voting.

Everyone who has posted in this topic has been following the contest and deeply invested, so they're familiar with the entries.

But someone who checks the forum once per week may find choosing 5 entries an arduous task.

So perhaps it should be minimum of 3 votes and maximum of 5 votes.

Obligatory 39 words per vote to explain what drew the voter into it could be an option too ;) 

and yeah, the problem with every poll is that a lot of folks might might not even wanna scroll down trough so many entries, and will pick just something from the top and won't invest time to check, so sometimes picking the right cover image would be a deciding factor, as this single pic would either drew someone or discourage from going deeper, and some builders seem to have a problem with presentation, so i guess it's also up to You to select those images for them in the list section ;) 

Or perhaps You could give a smaller number of votes based on who's the voter - like 3 votes to lurkers and 5 votes to us, "registered reviewers" ? ;) I mean, if those those additional 2 votes would be important for the overall verdict.

[Dreamweb]

21 hours ago, Mister Phes said:

By the past you mean 10-15 years ago before social media came along causing forum activity to decrease?

I am very aware of this, as I used to be a member of several message boards which died because of it (even a moderator on one of them). Eurobricks is doing quite well given the circumstances.

Anyway, the sheer number of entries and the registered creative critics makes me think there will be plenty of votes. I'm pretty sure almost everyone who posted an entry will want to vote, even if they cannot vote for self. And I'm also sure the registered critics will want to vote too.

As for the casual lurkers, you may be right that the necessity to vote for a total of 10 entries (5+5) might be discouraging for them, but on the other hand, it would reduce the problem of votes which are not very thought over and accidental, e.g. like when someone has to choose one entry, takes a brief look at all the pictures and picks one based on just the general impression, without really analysing it.

What I am sure of though is that providing the ability to vote for 3 to 5 entries would not really be fair. Let's pick one number of votes to be followed by everyone!

20 minutes ago, Mazin said:

Or perhaps You could give a smaller number of votes based on who's the voter - like 3 votes to lurkers and 5 votes to us, "registered reviewers" ? ;) I mean, if those those additional 2 votes would be important for the overall verdict.

Well, in this case I can imagine making an exception to the above rule, e.g. 5 votes for those who submitted their entries, and to the registered critics, 3 votes to everyone else. But it raises new problems, like what to do with those who have registered as critics but provided little to no feedback, or those who have not registered but have presented some opinions about the entries nonetheless.

Edited August 23, 2023 by Dreamweb

[Mazin]

20 minutes ago, Dreamweb said:

I am very aware of this, as I used to be a member of several message boards which died because of it (even a moderator on one of them). Eurobricks is doing quite well given the circumstances.

Anyway, the sheer number of entries and the registered creative critics makes me think there will be plenty of votes. I'm pretty sure almost everyone who posted an entry will want to vote, even if they cannot vote for self. And I'm also sure the registered critics will want to vote too.

As for the casual lurkers, you may be right that the necessity to vote for a total of 10 entries (5+5) might be discouraging for them, but on the other hand, it would reduce the problem of votes which are not very thought over and accidental, e.g. like when someone has to choose one entry, takes a brief look at all the pictures and picks one based on just the general impression, without really analysing it.

What I am sure of though is that providing the ability to vote for 3 to 5 entries would not really be fair. Let's pick one number of votes to be followed by everyone!

Well, in this case I can imagine making an exception to the above rule, e.g. 5 votes for those who submitted their entries, and to the registered critics, 3 votes to everyone else. But it raises new problems, like what to do with those who have registered as critics but provided little to no feedback, or those who have not registered but have presented some opinions about the entries nonetheless.

Yeah, i'm aware of that. But it could always be reevaluated, as who was registered or not, and this was a rule, and who left real feedback... That is if Governor Phes would be willing to do so ;) 

And there's always an option to cosinder carrying the voting process out in phases, like where in phase 1 only those  "more involved" would vote and they would pick their votes from the entire run of entries, and then, after votes would shrink that list down to definite leaders, lurkers could vote for them in phase 2, as this would also give them a bit more time to check out those most popular sets. 

Edited August 23, 2023 by Mazin

[Yperio_Bricks]

Don't divide the forum members into different groups. Everyone should have the same number of votes. I think 3 votes is the best number

[MstrOfPppts]

My concern is that 3 votes is simply too discouraging for the many good builds who will not get that much attention. I guess people will still vote for different entries, yet still some good entries will more easily slip unnoticed.

Also I think that the problem with lurkers is that they will look at first 10 - 15 entries and vote for 3. In case of 5 votes I think it's more psychological to check more entries rather than to vote for half of them without even checking them all. And if that means less votes it's still better than votes from users who didn't do their duty to at least check all the entries! Anyway, just my thoughts although I guess that the final results will not be decided by such users nor will it make much difference weather 3 or 5 votes are used. As I've said earlier it's the least we can do, so that more entries get at least some mentions in the voting thread.

But still I agree with @Yperio_Bricks that all users should have the same amount of votes.

[Mazin]

39 minutes ago, MstrOfPppts said:

My concern is that 3 votes is simply too discouraging for the many good builds who will not get that much attention. I guess people will still vote for different entries, yet still some good entries will more easily slip unnoticed.

Also I think that the problem with lurkers is that they will look at first 10 - 15 entries and vote for 3. In case of 5 votes I think it's more psychological to check more entries rather than to vote for half of them without even checking them all. And if that means less votes it's still better than votes from users who didn't do their duty to at least check all the entries! Anyway, just my thoughts although I guess that the final results will not be decided by such users nor will it make much difference weather 3 or 5 votes are used. As I've said earlier it's the least we can do, so that more entries get at least some mentions in the voting thread.

But still I agree with @Yperio_Bricks that all users should have the same amount of votes.

But if those lazy lurkers get 3 or 5 votes it won't change a thing, cause, as You've just said Yourself, they will vote for those top entries anyway, for 3 or 5, doesn't matter, it won't change the outcome and won;t change the fact that it simply might not be fair contestants.

Then again that's democracy, folks vote for whatever they want, usually not bothering to check what most of the contestants have to offer. It's up to Governor Phes do decide whether we want this here. But then again, should this voting process be completely democratic, than logically every contestant, reviewer and builder should be able to decide on how we shoudl vote ;) And it doesn't look like there's a lot of folks involved in this discussion ;) Is this discussion democratic then? It is open for everyone tho... :)   

[Yperio_Bricks]

10 minutes ago, Mazin said:

But if those lazy lurkers get 3 or 5 votes it won't change a thing, cause, as You've just said Yourself, they will vote for those top entries anyway, for 3 or 5, doesn't matter, it won't change the outcome and won;t change the fact that it simply might not be fair contestants.

How can you make such assumptions?

So if everyone has the same number of votes and votes for the entries he/she likes the most it is unfair? Why is this contest so messy and everything has to be discussed in detail? No fun.

[Mazin]

14 minutes ago, Yperio_Bricks said:

How can you make such assumptions?

So if everyone has the same number of votes and votes for the entries he/she likes the most it is unfair? Why is this contest so messy and everything has to be discussed in detail? No fun.

That's what You said. I was simply refering to MstrOfPpts who said that lurkers will probably focus on top entries, and he's probably right, that's all. You're the one who thinks it's getting messy, we're only suggesting how the voting could be done and what would be a proper way to make people involved and how to make it fair for contestants. 

[Mister Phes]

3 hours ago, Mazin said:

Or perhaps You could give a smaller number of votes based on who's the voter - like 3 votes to lurkers and 5 votes to us, "registered reviewers" ? ;)

Problem is how do you define a lurker?

Possible scenarios:

1. Someone who registers a Eurobricks account for the purpose of voting
2. Someone who has previously registered an account but is only active for the purpose of voting
3. Someone who's active on Eurobricks daily but not dedicated to the LEGO Pirates forum yet wants to vote

It's that last one that complicates things because the first two you can say X number posts...   But scenario 3 is someone could have 10,000 posts but rarely posts in LEGO Pirates.

54 minutes ago, Mazin said:

But if those lazy lurkers get 3 or 5 votes it won't change a thing, cause, as You've just said Yourself, they will vote for those top entries anyway, for 3 or 5, doesn't matter, it won't change the outcome and won;t change the fact that it simply might not be fair contestants.

The point is 10 votes is almost twice the work of 6 votes, and therefore may deter some people from voting at all

 

1 hour ago, MstrOfPppts said:

In case of 5 votes I think it's more psychological to check more entries rather than to vote for half of them without even checking them all. And if that means less votes it's still better than votes from users who didn't do their duty to at least check all the entries!

Aye, quality over quantity.

But again, the concern is not enough votes to avoid draws or a voting participation too low.

[Rogue Redcoat]

3 hours ago, Yperio_Bricks said:

Don't divide the forum members into different groups. Everyone should have the same number of votes. I think 3 votes is the best number 

 Aye, I have been watching this for the past few days and now there is some one with my opinion :)

14 minutes ago, Mister Phes said:

Problem is how do you define a lurker?

Possible scenarios:

1. Someone who registers a Eurobricks account for the purpose of voting
2. Someone who has previously registered an account but is only active for the purpose of voting
3. Someone who's active on Eurobricks daily but not dedicated to the LEGO Pirates forum yet wants to vote

It's that last one that complicates things because the first two you can say X number posts...   But scenario 3 is someone could have 10,000 posts but rarely posts in LEGO Pirates.

I believe that the last one would not be a "lurker" because even though they don't like pirates they are clearly an active contributor to Eurobricks, As for the other 2 what if I wanted a friend to vote for me but they don't have a Eurobricks account, and if they make one or several friends do they I could be accused of cheating, or making fake/spam accounts. 

[Mister Phes]

58 minutes ago, Rogue Redcoat said:

As for the other 2 what if I wanted a friend to vote for me but they don't have a Eurobricks account, and if they make one or several friends do they I could be accused of cheating, or making fake/spam accounts

Registering new Eurobricks accounts to vote isn't a problem providing each account is created in the name of the person registering it.

But if an account looks suspicious then we'll require the account holder to verify their identity.

[MstrOfPppts]

A lurker of this competition in my opinion is someone who did not comment or strictly follow the contest and may be drawn here by the frontpage post to say his vote. In most eurobricks contests there was a rule that only members with 10 posts (I'd put that to 50) and registered before the contest started are eligible to vote. Not sure what the case is here?

1 hour ago, Yperio_Bricks said:

Why is this contest so messy and everything has to be discussed in detail? No fun.

It's not that messy, there's been worse, trust me. (: Anyway why are you following these threads and reading them if you're only interested in builds and would not like to discuss rules? Besides we're just politely stating possibilities and not making a mess. At least not in my eyes. I've taken part in competitions where results were decided by almost less voters then there were entries, beaten by participants with more friends and what not. Therefor my habit is to try and vote if there's a competition going on. And in many cases, especially where the amount of entries is as big as it is here, I struggle to decide for top 3, or sometimes even less, and would rather not vote at all, which again is not the way to go. Therefore I just suggested more points to be available and make my choice a little easier. Usually the rules are written before or during the competition when it's hard to predict the amount of entries and sometimes adjustments are in place. As I've stated there are also other reasons but I'll manage even if in the end only one vote will be given.

50 minutes ago, Rogue Redcoat said:

As for the other 2 what if I wanted a friend to vote for me but they don't have a Eurobricks account, and if they make one or several friends do they I could be accused of cheating, or making fake/spam accounts.

Well yes, not only would you be accused of, but that is exactly what you would be doing - cheating. That is why the eligible accounts rule mentioned above was present in most competitions around here. The results of the competition are supposed to be determined by the community surrounding the platform where the competition is organized. It's from users to users - us EB AFOLS. There is no point in calling in all your friends and relatives to vote, this is not AGT?! Voting should be decided by the dedicated community who knows what they are voting for and have the idea of why one build is better than the other regardless of who built it. Of course it's still a bit of a subjective matter, but that's why more relevant voters vote, the better the results will be.

1 hour ago, Mister Phes said:

The point is 10 votes is almost twice the work of 6 votes, and therefore may deter some people from voting at all

Yes, but do the votes of people who are too lazy to have a proper look at the entries and pick 5 really matter? Quality over quantity I'd say and besides more votes per person less of chance for potential draws I guess. But in case of a draw another vote between the drawn entries can be done and it's solved. Possibility of a draw can't be predicted and is possible in all scenarios, so it's nice to have a rule in advance to cover the case.

[Mister Phes]

2 hours ago, Yperio_Bricks said:

Why is this contest so messy and everything has to be discussed in detail? No fun.

Market research.  To find out exactly what people want in a contest.

But also because this contest was arranged rather hurriedly as I was departing on a one month voyage spanning 6 countries.

I arranged what I could while also arranging the trip... the latter had to take priority.  And then I was absent from the forum for an entire month.

So I picked up the pieces when I got back, while also having to catch up on everything else in life.

Not the most ideal approach, but it was either that or no contest.

[Rogue Redcoat]

31 minutes ago, MstrOfPppts said:

There is no point in calling in all your friends and relatives to vote, this is not AGT?! Voting should be decided by the dedicated community who knows what they are voting for and have the idea of why one build is better than the other regardless of who built it. Of course it's still a bit of a subjective matter, but that's why more relevant voters vote, the better the results will be.

I disagree, if builders have friends who want to vote for them and take their time to create a Eurobricks account I'm all for it, and they still have to vote for other entries besides mine. I'm asking to flood Eurobricks with one-time-only users but if they are interested in voting, let them!

[Mister Phes]

30 minutes ago, Rogue Redcoat said:

I'm asking to flood Eurobricks with one-time-only users but if they are interested in voting, let them!

I'd be more interested in getting them to stick around.  Is there a way to achieve that after voting ends?

[MstrOfPppts]

1 hour ago, Rogue Redcoat said:

I disagree, if builders have friends who want to vote for them and take their time to create a Eurobricks account I'm all for it, and they still have to vote for other entries besides mine. I'm asking to flood Eurobricks with one-time-only users but if they are interested in voting, let them!

Well, we'll have to disagree then, that's fine. The question is what does the community gain from such users? Only you do - that's called selfishness. If it was my call I would have banned such users even for thinking about it, yet alone asking if it's OK?!

39 minutes ago, Mister Phes said:

I'd be more interested in getting them to stick around.  Is there a way to achieve that after voting ends?

No point in asking such a rhetorical question. I'd say first comes the commitment and the duties and after obeying and participation come the rights ...

[Rogue Redcoat]

33 minutes ago, MstrOfPppts said:

The question is what does the community gain from such users? Only you do - that's called selfishness. If it was my call I would have banned such users even for thinking about it, yet alone asking if it's OK?!

The community gains the votes to the contest and perhaps they want to vote for other entries, I don't control them as I said I'm not looking to spam the forum with useless one-time users, and I'm pretty sure it's better to ask than not, and follow through and undermine the competition.

1 hour ago, Mister Phes said:

I'd be more interested in getting them to stick around.  Is there a way to achieve that after voting ends?

I'm pretty new to this forum so I can't be sure about anything but I believe that you need to engage your users more, like this contest does, we have people from all over coming and joining for it. And when classic pirates went on Pinterest, Twitter, etc. It seems it could have taken away from the website instead of adding to it now if people want inspiration for their Mocs they see the few that are front page and move on instead of digging through the "archives" in Eurobricks. Furthermore, you might want to update the search function, because when I search for a Moc that I have seen half the time it does not work. I do happen to have two questions one, how many people are active users now, and what was the most Eurobricks has ever had, and two do these people who stop using the forum just drop legos in general or move the places like Instagram and other social media pages? Anyway, I'm sorry for the whole mishap but as they say, the show must go on ;)

[Mister Phes]

Thank you for the feedback! Lack of time is the reason many things don't get done, and that's because this all has be done in people's spare time.

9 hours ago, Rogue Redcoat said:

And when classic pirates went on Pinterest, Twitter, etc. It seems it could have taken away from the website instead

Actually it's the opposite. The forum began languishing last decade after social media rose to prominence and in general forums became a less popular form of communication.

So it was either build a social media presence and drive traffic to the website and forum, or fade into obscurity.

 

9 hours ago, Rogue Redcoat said:

how many people are active users now, and what was the most Eurobricks has ever had

I don't have the exact figures on the top of my head (if time permits I'll review them)... But as an observation, since the announcement of 10320 Eldorado Fortress and this contest, the LEGO Pirates Forum has not been this active since the early 2010s.

 

9 hours ago, Rogue Redcoat said:

I'm pretty new to this forum so I can't be sure about anything but I believe that you need to engage your users more, like this contest does, we have people from all over coming and joining for it.

I agree... but unfortunately:

• Prizes and shipping are expensive so we rely on generous sponsors - and the current prize pool is what we're given this year
• On top of managing the forum, blog, social media, etc. the contest consumes a lot of personal time.  So I don't have enough time to do much more.

 

[Rogue Redcoat]

10 hours ago, Mister Phes said:

• Prizes and shipping are expensive so we rely on generous sponsors - and the current prize pool is what we're given this year
• On top of managing the forum, blog, social media, etc. the contest consumes a lot of personal time.  So I don't have enough time to do much more.

I understand, I would be willing to help out where I can, is there a place I can sign up to organize or do things to help? I personally love this forum and hate to see it fade. 

Edited August 24, 2023 by Rogue Redcoat

[Mister Phes]

1 minute ago, Rogue Redcoat said:

I understand, I would be willing to help out where I can, is there a place I can sign up to organise or do things to help?

Why yes there is!  We need to recruit new Regulators, Moderators and bloggers.

And this contest has certainly revealed some promising candidates... if they're interested.

But recruitment can't begin until after the contest to avoid favoritism, as it might look dubious if someone won a prize and joined the crew all in the same month.

[Rogue Redcoat]

1 minute ago, Mister Phes said:

Why yes there is!  We need to recruit new Regulators, Moderators and bloggers.

And this contest has certainly revealed some promising candidates... if they're interested.

But recruitment can't begin until after the contest to avoid favoritism, as it might look dubious if someone won a prize and joined the crew all in the same month.

Ok, put me on the list and I will see what I can do :)

[Mister Phes]

4 minutes ago, Rogue Redcoat said:

Ok, put me on the list and I will see what I can do :)

Thank ye - you're at the top of the list!

[Yperio_Bricks]

What is a regulator doing?

[Marooned Marin]

6 hours ago, Yperio_Bricks said:

What is a regulator doing?

Piracy is a global issue today so to tackle this we have some in our employ. Tasks are regulating the pirate forum, weeding out the rotten apples and maintaining the Rum supplies.

Whole Eurobricks Staff Structure is available HERE