[CONTEST] Return of the Classic Pirates - Vote Counting

Horation · September 9, 2023

Alright, here it is, I have DannyBoy_4 at 15 votes, very likely a misplaced vote, if someone else would validate, I'd hugely appreciate it

**Mister Phes** · September 9, 2023

8 minutes ago, Horation said:

Alright, here it is, I have DannyBoy_4 at 15 votes, very likely a misplaced vote, if someone else would validate, I'd hugely appreciate it

That is consistent with my updated count based on Yoggington's spreadsheet.

Horation · September 9, 2023

Here's the new table

Spoiler

Position Entries (in chronological order of votes) votes (of which are provisional votes- only for the entry next to parentheses, not for all entries with that many votes)

#1- 278/6292 enchanted island by DannyBoy_4 18 votes

#2- 6269 Islander Palace by BrynnOfCastlegate 15 votes

6267 Lagoon Lockup/Soldier's tavern by Aanchir

#3- The Lost Lagoon by The Brick Stop 14 votes

#4- Saber Island by TomSkippy 13 votes

#5- Sin Island by Marooned Marin 11 votes

#6- Short Pork Island by Yoggington 10 votes

#7- Caribbean Shipyard by Cincinnati 8 votes

#8- Base impériale by OMBY54 6 votes

Imperial trading outpost by Aex383

#9- Skull eyes Schooner By Quotenotto 5 votes

6260/6257 pirates by _R_R_

6273 Rock Island Refuge by CollinsAnimation...

#10- Big Kahuna's Atoll by Yatkuu 4 votes

Cross bone clipper by Elephant knight

Caribean Clipper by TomSkippy

6277 Imperial trading Post by Rogue Redcoat

Armada Fortress by Elephant Knight

Rock Island Refuge by CaptainDarkNStormy

6281 Pirate's Perilous Pitfall by Slegengr

6262 King Kahuka's throne by SevenDeadlyStreamers

#11- 6279 Skull Island by MyFirstMOC-Hun 3 votes (3)

6271 Imperial Flagship by Elephant Knight

Cutlass reach by LetsBrick

Governor Broadside's garrison by US_Army_Tom

6254+6258 "Remastered Atolls"

#12- Forbidden Cove by TomSkippy 2 votes

The Hearty Cutlass by Thats No Moon

Le Scorpion by Jansued

6267 Lagoon Lockup revisited by CaptainLocke

The Hurricane by Marooned Marin

Sailor's Hideout by Slegengr

Caribbean Brig by Stoerbricker

UCS jolly Roger by Hatchpattern

Votes Valid as of 1757 EST

Eurobricks Board of elections 11-09-2023

Edited September 11, 2023 by Horation
Adjusted the totals

Horation · September 10, 2023

And here it is for the other category, my totals might differ from others' due to not having counted the 4 suspicious voters, In fact I seem to remember the top two having 18 votes instead of 17 with control F, but once you look at only the valid votes, it is clear that the extra vote for each is from a probably fraudulent account.

Spoiler

#1- Sloop Windy by Marooned Marin 19 votes

#2- King Kahuka's outrigger boat by Kritch 17 votes

Fortune Idol by Oky

#3- Treasure Island by Oky 15 votes

Shark Cart by TomSkippy 13 votes

#4-Captain's Cabin by MontyMatte 12 votes

#5-6232 Skeleton Crew Remake by Tom Sassy 11 votes

#6-1872 Imperial Guard Camp byTheWatchman 8 votes

6235 Buried treasure by Janhanssen

#7- 1802 Tidy Treasure by Dr3w 7 votes

Caribbean river soldiers by Rogue Redcoat

Shipwrecked Survivor by nyugvo6

#8-Hidden Cache by LetsBrick 6 votes

#9- Rum Rock by Fraunces 5 votes

Treasure Found by JopieK

Pirate's Dock by Elephant Knight

1464 Pirate Lookout by Elephant Knight

#10-1795 imperial Cannon by CaptainDark... 4 votes

Promiscuous sailor by JopieK

Cannibals by Valderius

#11- Failed Raid by SnobleJR 3 votes

Shipwreck of Avedo by Tayaya

6235 Buried treasure by Omby54

Votes valid as of 1753 EST,09-11-2023

Eurobricks board of elections

Edited September 11, 2023 by Horation
added some stuff

**Mister Phes** · September 10, 2023

14 hours ago, Horation said:

And here it is for the other category

You've done very well! :pir-huzzah2:

Here are my Voting Results based on @Yoggington's earlier spreadsheet.

At this time there are only two voters who I did not count (see notes in XLS file) but the results are petty much the same despite the values being slightly different.

Yperio_Bricks · September 10, 2023

Interesting to see that Islanders sets doing well in the voting so far! Hope Lego takes notes :pir_laugh2:

Horation · September 10, 2023

35 minutes ago, Yperio_Bricks said:

Interesting to see that Islanders sets doing well in the voting so far! Hope Lego takes notes

Nah, apparently they're "politically incorrect" or something...

On a more useful note, are users allowed to edit their votes if said votes were initially valid?

Edited September 10, 2023 by Horation
removed rant, added question

**Mister Phes** · September 10, 2023

25 minutes ago, Horation said:

On a more useful note, are users allowed to edit their votes if said votes were initially valid?

Nay. Votes cannot be edited/changed.

Imagine how contest could be swayed if people could change their votes after learning who was in the lead.

Horation · September 10, 2023

3 hours ago, Mister Phes said:

Nay. Votes cannot be edited/changed.

Imagine how contest could be swayed if people could change their votes after learning who was in the lead.

Fair enough, though by that logic, maybe we should have waited before releasing these tables showing who's in the lead, since this will inevitably lead to some tactical voting (I mean, without even counting, I didn't vote for some entries to tactically improve the position of some entries which I did like).

While we are on the topic of voting rules, perhaps the next time around runoff voting should be required, since it does appear that Oky's two entries combined got a lot more votes than Marooned Marin's entry (though I am of course aware that many people voted for two or even all three of these, so the effect of a runoff would be unclear), it would avoid any vote splitting from two similar entries (for instance, two rafts splitting the votes between them and an island winning instead, despite it not being most people's favourite).

I'd have suggested it sooner, but I went through a period of inactivity in the past couple of weeks.

The Reader · September 10, 2023

As stated here: The only fair approach is that in future contests only accounts which have been created before the contest is announced are allowed to vote.

Mazin · September 10, 2023

But then again You have to remember that one of the reasons this contest was created was to bring more people into the Pirates Forum, as either viewers or participants, voters too. Or at least i understood it that way :) Allowing only those registered before the contest would play against those promotional goals. @iragm 's idea with allowing accounts that had some activity sounds wiser. Or You could always do it like with reviewing part of the contest, where it was obligatory to register first in order to participate and then participants that didn't realy participate were out of the contest... I guess this simple rule worked here, so it could work for voting just as well :)

Edited September 10, 2023 by Mazin

Horation · September 11, 2023

I think a simpler rule would be to allow people to vote as it is (to allow more newcomers), but to limit people to one entry for each creator per category, this would make any attempt to do voter fraud a little harder (and would force the fraudulent votes to focus on one entry, which would make the fraud more obvious)

Yperio_Bricks · September 11, 2023

8 hours ago, Mazin said:

But then again You have to remember that one of the reasons this contest was created was to bring more people into the Pirates Forum, as either viewers or participants, voters too. Or at least i understood it that way :) Allowing only those registered before the contest would play against those promotional goals. @iragm 's idea with allowing accounts that had some activity sounds wiser. Or You could always do it like with reviewing part of the contest, where it was obligatory to register first in order to participate and then participants that didn't realy participate were out of the contest... I guess this simple rule worked here, so it could work for voting just as well :)

Certainly there was a hugh spark in activity in the pirates forum :thumbup: and 2 or 3 thousand or so comments were written (or something like that) but we will see if the growth is substantial and people will generally comment more on general Lego pirat topics, regular mocs or the pirate RPG mocs. I'd like to see some people join the RPG. Anyone? :pir_laugh2: ... :pir-sceptic:

**Mister Phes** · September 11, 2023

13 hours ago, Horation said:

Fair enough, though by that logic, maybe we should have waited before releasing these tables showing who's in the lead, since this will inevitably lead to some tactical voting (I mean, without even counting, I didn't vote for some entries to tactically improve the position of some entries which I did like).

Unless voting is kept completely anonymous, this cannot be prevented.

But unless someone is deeply invested in the contest, they're probably won't to go to this effort.

8 hours ago, Mazin said:

But then again You have to remember that one of the reasons this contest was created was to bring more people into the Pirates Forum, as either viewers or participants, voters too. Or at least i understood it that way :

You have understood correctly.

7 hours ago, Horation said:

I think a simpler rule would be to allow people to vote as it is (to allow more newcomers), but to limit people to one entry for each creator per category, this would make any attempt to do voter fraud a little harder (and would force the fraudulent votes to focus on one entry, which would make the fraud more obvious)

How so?

There has only been suspicion of voter fraud towards one builder. If he'd only entered one build, voting would be less obvious.

It was because various new members voted for 5 of his builds that made their activity very noticeable. If they just voted for one of his builds they would have been far more inconspicuous.

**Mister Phes** · September 11, 2023

14 hours ago, Yperio_Bricks said:

Btw, how often are there pirate contests in this forum?

This is the first contest the LEGO Pirates Forum has held since 2013...

But once upon a time... back in the late 2000's and early 2010's we held contests every 6-12 months with more building categories and much larger prize pools.

Return of the Classic Pirates is tiny in comparison!

Below is an image of the prize pool for the 2012 Seven Seas Contest, which doesn't include the half dozen 8396 Soldier's Arsenals, two 6240 Kraken Attackin's and 6242 Soldier's Forts we offered during the promotion of that contest.

Yperio_Bricks · September 11, 2023

The good old days i guess :pir-triumph: At that time i was deep in my dark ages which i only left at the end of 2018/beginning of 2019.

**Mister Phes** · September 11, 2023

3 hours ago, Yperio_Bricks said:

The good old days i guess

And now we shall work to good new days! Even better than the good old days!

**MstrOfPppts** · September 11, 2023

Well I think that the contest run here is primarily meant to spark some activity from old members to move their lazy asses a bit and do something. It is a bit utopical to think that there are people who so "desperately want" to vote that they will make an account and even more so, become active users after that. If they had any intentions to comment or otherwise engage in our community they already would. So I think that the before contest starts sign up should be mandatory for voting! Also 10 posts is a bare minimum and it's very simple to achieve by commenting on a few out of hundreds entries to at least show some interest in the contest. I don't see how one would be so eager to vote and not do a single comment other than being persuaded by someone to vote for him, which we do not want! Yes he will vote for others too, but will he vote for the actualy good entries or for the ones with the least chances to make better chances for a friend?!

23 hours ago, Horation said:

I mean, without even counting, I didn't vote for some entries to tactically improve the position of some entries which I did like

And you're proud of it? I think that the point of voting is to express your honest opinion on which entries you like most and not trying to enforce one of the entries you voted for to become the winner. The only fair point of a public vote is to determine which entry in average suits the most eyes and thus becomes a winner. Anything else is fraudulent! All I can say is grow up man and think about it, or at least refrain from making such comments publicly. Yes your vote is legal and all, but is it legitimate? I bet you wouldn't be happy actually building the greatest MOC for a competition and missing the prize because of such behavior?

Anyway at most we can expect from a contest is to gain a new user signing up to participate in the contest. That I have no problem with, yet they still would not be allowed to vote. Just a precaution from new members making crappy entries just to gain the right to vote.

And I am certainly against the somewhere mentioned facebook voting or at least hope that it will not have a huge impact on the end results. I have no idea how facebook works or the groups, but I imagine there is even less control on who stands behind the votes and favorizes people with more advertising or bigger friends and relatives circles. As I've said before, I don't think that we want a <insert your country here>'s got talent voting system. It's supposed to be from members to members and people who vote for competition entries should at least know what and why they voted for an entry - build quality and general appeal wise and not for a friend or relative nor against someone you don't like.

At least this is how I see things being the most fair. And as long as the system is fair and the good entries will be winning, we are sure that in future competitions more good builders will stay and more will try harder and we will get even better quality creations. I think that this scenario is far better than seeing a decline of participants who are great builders for the system is making little sense. There might still be a ton of mediocre entries and then let the biggest influencer win. Is that what we're aiming for? Just for the sake of the numbers of entries / votes / apparent activity?! I hope not!

Just sharing my point of view on the voting topic, will write some more about the contest in general in the other topic ...

Horation · September 11, 2023

12 hours ago, Mister Phes said:

There has only been suspicion of voter fraud towards one builder. If he'd only entered one build, voting would be less obvious.

It was because various new members voted for 5 of his builds that made their activity very noticeable. If they just voted for one of his builds they would have been far more inconspicuous.

Fair enough, I didn't see it in that way, I'll admit I was wrong on that count.

57 minutes ago, MstrOfPppts said:

And you're proud of it? I think that the point of voting is to express your honest opinion on which entries you like most and not trying to enforce one of the entries you voted for to become the winner. The only fair point of a public vote is to determine which entry in average suits the most eyes and thus becomes a winner. Anything else is fraudulent! All I can say is grow up man and think about it, or at least refrain from making such comments publicly. Yes your vote is legal and all, but is it legitimate? I bet you wouldn't be happy actually building the greatest MOC for a competition and missing the prize because of such behavior?

I am grown up (I think, but I might just be a young butterfly that thinks it's a grown up human, or I might be dreaming that I'm existing, who knows...), and if I'm publicly admitting to having done so, then 10 people did it without saying so, and another 10 without even realising they were doing so (the article I link to below is quite interesting in that aspect).

I don't feel bad about what I did, I did vote for my favourite entry, afterwards, the fact that I gave my votes to entries which I might have liked less than others which seemed better but might have stopped that entry I liked from getting a top spot is entirely legitimate, in fact it's called Tactical voting, and I've done it at every real election I voted in (so did between 33%-50% of voters here in Canada, depending on the poll). Now the fact of the matter is that I quite like doing so (it adds some fun to my vote). You think it is wrong, but the argument you give has convinced me of the validity of this method, since if I were to have lost a competition because of such behaviour, wouldn't it prove that my entry wasn't the best? After all, the voters felt so strongly in favour of another entry that they, to boost its chances, didn't vote for my great entry at all so as to reduce its odds of winning, sounds like we have a clear winner in such a hypothetical case...

https://electionscience.org/library/tactical-voting-basics/

**Mister Phes** · September 12, 2023

7 hours ago, MstrOfPppts said:

Well I think that the contest run here is primarily meant to spark some activity from old members to move their lazy asses a bit and do something.

It was partly that reason, and partly to attract newer members hence why no minimum account requirement was placed on the voters this time.

If you review the votes, there are voters with less than 10 posts who have managed to cast valid votes.

That being said, for the next contest we may limit voting to those who have registered an account prior to the contest start.

**MstrOfPppts** · September 12, 2023

@Horation: No it wouldn't prove that your entry wasn't the best, it would only prove that you did not put enough effort into propaganda. If voters voted tactically and that was the desired system, that is. Anyway using elections here is not the best comparison for I'd rather not write my opinion about the candidates "quality" in general, which as said is not something we should aim for regarding the entries! Some countries are a bit more lucky than others but, ... let's just leave it here. And the sad truth is that a lot of people vote against a candidate since there is no one they would really like to pick. Anyway tactical voting in elections is understandable and I agree that a lot of people do it since they benefit from it. Or at least that is what they think. Here I see no benefit for you to improve someone's chances other than feeling good for voting for the potential winner? I don't know, I just don't understand it. And besides aren't the votes in question from the other thread and the main cause of this discussion also just tactical votes? And I guess you think they are alright too? Well guess why everyone is making such a fuss about it, because they think it is not alright!

Apologies for my statement of growing up. I see you are alright for not biting it and making a fuss about it. You do have some points, I just don't think they apply here in a strange plastic hobby community. Or I'm just too much of an idealist and besides I'm not saying only I'm in the right. I have no intention to argue, just expressing my opinion. And I'm alright with agreeing that our opinions just differ ...

F1stzz · September 12, 2023

14 hours ago, MstrOfPppts said:

Just sharing my point of view on the voting topic, will write some more about the contest in general in the other topic ...

I really feel like the post-contest discussion, some sort of a public recap & convo around it would be appreciated, mate :thumbup: I'd happily take a part in it & share my thoughts as well.

**Mister Phes** · September 12, 2023

5 minutes ago, F1stzz said:

I really feel like the post-contest discussion, some sort of a public recap & convo around it would be appreciated, mate I'd happily take a part in it & share my thoughts as well.

Well definitely have one of those after contest.

F1stzz · September 12, 2023

4 minutes ago, Mister Phes said:

Well definitely have one of those after contest.

Awesome, cuz I definitely want to say a thing or two about the whole event & I see I'm not the only one having such a desire That'll be a healthy and engaging way to put focus on some of the nuances which need to be tweaked or fixed for the future contests.

**MstrOfPppts** · September 12, 2023

1 hour ago, Mister Phes said:

Well definitely have one of those after contest.

I'll wait for it then.

[CONTEST] Return of the Classic Pirates - Vote Counting

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