LEGO Star Wars 2024 Set Discussion - READ FIRST POST!!!

[Renny The Spaceman]

2 minutes ago, BrickBob Studpants said:

I could call this the Luigi‘s Pizzeria of Star Wars, but I‘m not gonna be that mean  Who would such a set be aimed that though? We don‘t tend to get vehicles that are not featured in any action scenes.

The Luigi's pizza of star wars would be like the factory where they make blue milk or something, Mon Mothma's limo would be a step up in relevance from it, Luigi's pizza is a generic facade in the background of one game and but was suggested entirely based off a delivery bike with the logo in one TLBM set

[Lego Nostalgia]

Oh God, we really brought the Aslume to the Star Wars thread lol

It will only get crazier if all the Jabba's Sail Barge figs get released in a Battle Pack

I love chaos

re-release UCS Cloud City Boba from 2003

[Alexandrina]

8 minutes ago, BrickBob Studpants said:

We don‘t tend to get vehicles that are not featured in any action scenes.

To be fair, we've had a few Imperial Shuttles over the years

[CallumPears]

1 hour ago, Alexandrina said:

I definitely think it's an issue with media discussion in general that people are willing to overlook minor flaws in things they enjoy and be harsh on those same flaws in things they don't enjoy. I've had people jumping down my throat in the past on other sites for saying that I think there are small issues with ESB - not that I don't enjoy it, or think it's great, but that there are some things which could be better. (And this goes for all films).

Oh yeah if TLJ had a scene where the main characters walk around in a 'cave' with just oxygen masks and no spacesuits I'd absolutely take issue with it; that's definitely something ESB shouldn't have done (how hard would it have been to give them some sort of suit, or even a throwaway line like "huh weird this asteroid has an atmosphere"?). 

1 hour ago, Agent Kallus said:

Buildable B2EMO.

If we got this and no other Andor sets then I would petition for Denmark to lose it's seat in the UN. 

1 hour ago, THELEGOBATMAN said:

Mon Mothma's limousine combined with Luthen's artifact gallery; includes Mon Mothma, Luthen Rael, Klera Marki, and Vel Sartha (I know it doesn't sound super exciting, but I think it'd be a really unique set with key Rebellion figures)

[...]

• Imperial repulsocraft from Ferrix; includes Brasso, B2EMO, Vanis Tigo, and a Stormtrooper (generic Imperial vehicle, LEGO loves those)

I'd really like these two. I love getting civillian vehicles so Mon's car would definitely be a buy for me. One thing I'd change though in the Ferrix Imperial set is dropping the Stormtrooper in favour of an Army riot trooper, maybe even make it a battle pack (though that'd mean no Brasso or B2 ).

Also didn't include it in the quote but the Aldhani freighter would be great too. I always love when a set can be reused in a bunch of different scenarios and that's one that could easily be any generic transport ship, and it'd have a killer minifigure line-up. (Throw in an Army Trooper too, or maybe that radio operator that catches them.)

44 minutes ago, Lego Nostalgia said:

It will only get crazier if all the Jabba's Sail Barge figs get released in a Battle Pack

I do want a Jabba's guards battle pack, but ideally they'd be all-new characters. I think my ideal selection would be Yotts Oren, Lathe, Vedain and the unnamed human guard from Skiff 2 (the one who's death is erroneously edited in place of Velken Terezi's; he's also the one they based the design of the Palace Guard in TCS on). My main complaint about the barge is the lack of unique guards since all of them are very distinctive in RotJ and many are difficult to make as purist customs. While the ones I've listed are all named characters, they look generic enough to a casual fan and for someone like me who wants all the actual characters, Vedain's torso could be used for another human guard aboard the barge (the one with red trousers) and could also combined with Yotts Oren's head (which would be a reuse of Wooof's) to make a close-enough Klaatu. The remaining parts could also be bashed together to make generic custom guards for some variation.

Edited November 5, 2024 by CallumPears

[ARC2149Nova]

Since the media discussion was given the green light, I'll just put my rankings of the nine saga films, according to respective categories

As solo media (stand alone films)

• A New Hope
• Revenge of the Sith
• The Force Awakens
• The Phantom Menace
• The Empire Strikes Back
• The rest tie for last, as they pretty much require the other movies.

Iconography (visuals, locations, and plot devices)

• The Empire Strikes Back
• A New Hope
• Revenge of the Sith
• Return of the Jedi
• The Last Jedi
• Attack of the Clones
• The Phantom Menace
• The Force Awakens
• The Rise of Skywalker

Music (Simplified by trilogy)

• OT (Empire, ANH, Jedi)
• PT (ROTS, TPM, AOTC)
• ST (TFA, TLJ, TROS)

Overall (in my very biased opinion )

• Revenge of the Sith
• The Empire Strikes Back
• A New Hope
• Attack of the Clones
• The Phantom Menace
• Return of the Jedi
• The Force Awakens
• The Rise of Skywalker (with Papa Palpatine being its sole saving grace)
• The Last Jedi

All I'll add to that discussion is that George's saga told a complete story, and imo, told it well. The things people like to harp on the prequels for, are intentional. Anakin is an awkward flirt by design, he's a disturbed and sociopathic character by design. These things make sense for his character. The Original Trilogy suffers a bit from constant story changes throughout the production of the three films (Vader wasn't always going to be Anakin, Luke and Leia weren't always siblings) as well as not lining up with the Prequels perfectly (again, changes in story ideas as the saga progressed), but one would never notice these things as the trilogy is still a coherent and compelling narrative.

The Force Awakens showed a lot of promise, but the Last Jedi was more concerned with "subverting expectations" than telling a continuous story, which led The Rise of Skywalker to becoming the pettiest movie ever made, constantly undoing story beats and plot elements established in the previous film (Kylo gets his helmet back, Rey's no longer a nobody, "That's no way to treat a Jedi's weapon", etc.) I think the sequels needed a single director in order to smooth things out. Or alternatively, kept Colin Trevorrow's Duel of the Fates, which seems like it would've been a pretty epic film on its own, separated from the trilogy. The only things TLJ did well were its cinematography and some of its soundtrack. The tone of the film better suits a Marvel project than a Star Wars one, and some story decisions are headscratchers. Also, introducing Reylo over the Finn/Rey connection JJ was establishing in the first film is a decision I will never forgive Rian Johnson for.

1 hour ago, THELEGOBATMAN said:

while Narkina 5 set would give people a very iconic outfit and character.

You are joking, right? I'd hardly call Andy Serkis' character "iconic". Cool, yes. But not iconic.

1 hour ago, THELEGOBATMAN said:

• Mon Mothma's limousine combined with Luthen's artifact gallery; includes Mon Mothma, Luthen Rael, Klera Marki, and Vel Sartha (I know it doesn't sound super exciting, but I think it'd be a really unique set with key Rebellion figures)

• TIE Fighter; includes Vel Sartha, Cinta Kaz, Taramyn Barcona, and a TIE Fighter Pilot (we haven't had one of those for a while)

• Aldhani Rono freighter; includes Cassian Andor, Karis Nemik, Arvel Skeen, Gorn, and Jayhold Beehaz (this could make for a really cool set actually, especially with the minifigures)

These are all solid options, and probably the most likely. If Andor had gotten a film release, I could see those getting made

 

2 hours ago, BrickBob Studpants said:

What kid cares about drab-looking bases or a prison?

.Every 2008 Clone Wars era LSW fan. The amount of clone base MOCs still being made to this day says a lot of them.

 

1 hour ago, BrickBob Studpants said:

I could call this the Luigi‘s Pizzeria of Star Wars

Lars Homestead: "Am I a joke to you?"

 

1 hour ago, Lego Nostalgia said:

re-release UCS Cloud City Boba from 2003

Fight the Scalpers!

[THELEGOBATMAN]

At last, after all these years, we are finally getting Kylo Ren's helmet as a set. In May, 75415 (along with his midi-scale shuttle, 75406).

Hopefully this means LEGO is more open to making more Sequel Trilogy set, I've become terribly tired of the constant Clone Wars and The Mandalorian content.

[BrickBob Studpants]

23 minutes ago, ARC2149Nova said:

Or alternatively, kept Colin Trevorrow's Duel of the Fates, which seems like it would've been a pretty epic film on its own, separated from the trilogy.

With a Poe and Rey romance that comes out of nowhere, Plagueis being retconned, and Hux turning into a knock-off Grievous, committing seppuku with a lightsaber, saying „we lost the star war“?!

3 minutes ago, THELEGOBATMAN said:

At last, after all these years, we are finally getting Kylo Ren's helmet as a set. In May, 75415 (along with his midi-scale shuttle, 75406).

YES, FINALLY!!

[THELEGOBATMAN]

21 minutes ago, BrickBob Studpants said:

With a Poe and Rey romance that comes out of nowhere, Plagueis being retconned, and Hux turning into a knock-off Grievous, committing seppuku with a lightsaber, saying „we lost the star war“?!

It's certainly a controversial script, but I'll take something uniquely bad over generically bad any day. It's obvious it could've been another The Last Jedi case of controversy, so Disney shut the script down and called in good old Mr. Generic Fan-appeasing Star Wars Movie-maker.

Also, Plagueis is never retconned, and Hux doesn't say anything like that (although the line is present in the script, but as a note, not dialogue—screenwriters do this, especially in drafts, simply to amuse themselves).

[CloneCommando99]

1 hour ago, THELEGOBATMAN said:

At last, after all these years, we are finally getting Kylo Ren's helmet as a set. In May, 75415 (along with his midi-scale shuttle, 75406).

I’m not sure how to feel about this tbh. Instead of a 3rd helmet there should be a diorama. But still a cool choice nonetheless.

At least I’ll be able to keep a decent budget next 1HY. (Aside from U-Wing, ARC-170 and Night Trooper BP)

 

Since we’re ranking SW films. Imma do my own opinion (I love them all, some more than others)

1. ESB
2. ROTS
3. RO
4. ANH
5. ROTJ
6. TFA
7. TPM/ AOTC/ TLJ/ Solo
8. TROS
9. TCWM

SW Shows on the other hand:

1. Andor
2. TCW
3. TBB/ Rebels
4. The Mandalorian (season 1 and 2 were good, I didn’t like season 3 that much)
5. Ahsoka
6. Resistance
7. Kenobi
8. Acolyte (Cool lightsaber choreography)
9. TBoBF

Edited November 5, 2024 by CloneCommando99

[THELEGOBATMAN]

1 hour ago, ARC2149Nova said:

You are joking, right? I'd hardly call Andy Serkis' character "iconic". Cool, yes. But not iconic.

Not really, no. I'm obviously not using the word "iconic" in the same context as Darth Vader or a Stormtrooper.

But it's the most iconic moment in the most well-received Star Wars project since... I don't know, the Original Trilogy? The amount of times I've seen people discussing Kino Loy and the Narkina 5 arc on Twitter, Reddit etc. is unprecedented.

Even two days ago another Tweet with lots of likes popped up on my timeline. It's incredible, because people have already forgotten about Kenobi, Ahsoka, Boba Fett, and even most of the Mandalorian, but to this day they talk about Andor simply because of how good it is. 

2 minutes ago, CloneCommando99 said:

I’m not sure how to feel about this tbh. Instead of a 3rd helmet there should be a diorama. But still a cool choice nonetheless.

It's not one or the other. Either we get the helmet, or we wouldn't get anything else. Another set wouldn't just pop up in its place.

I do hope they continue the dioramas though. Easily my favourite LEGO Star Wars line.

The Throne Room one might be my favourite LEGO Star Wars sets actually (kind of biased since it's also my favourite Star Wars scene in general, but whatever).

1 hour ago, ARC2149Nova said:

These are all solid options, and probably the most likely. If Andor had gotten a film release, I could see those getting made

I'm crying inside right now. These sound so good to me, I'd buy every single one of those in a heartbeat, but I know we'll never get them.

Then again, this is why the Andor sets are so special to me—just one per season (so... two in total).

[BrickBob Studpants]

11 minutes ago, THELEGOBATMAN said:

Also, Plagueis is never retconned, and Hux doesn't say anything like that (although the line is present in the script, but as a note, not dialogue—screenwriters do this, especially in drafts, simply to amuse themselves).

Oh, I thought it was an actual line in the script  But still, Hux becoming a lightsaber-collecting weirdo is in there and the existence of Tor Valum would have been a huge retcon of the rule of two, among other things!

[THELEGOBATMAN]

1 hour ago, CallumPears said:

OhI'd really like these two. I love getting civillian vehicles so Mon's car would definitely be a buy for me. One thing I'd change though in the Ferrix Imperial set is dropping the Stormtrooper in favour of an Army riot trooper, maybe even make it a battle pack (though that'd mean no Brasso or B2 ).

Right? I know it might sound unappealing to some, but I'd love to get it just on the basis of how different it'd be from all the other Star Wars sets.

And I agree about the Stormtrooper, although I included them just because LEGO loves to do so. 

2 minutes ago, BrickBob Studpants said:

Oh, I thought it was an actual line in the script  But still, Hux becoming a lightsaber-collecting weirdo is in there and the existence of Tor Valum would have been a huge retcon of the rule of two, among other things!

I mean... wasn't the rule of two completely irrelevant to begin with? It feels like every single Sith always has their own secret trainee.

And I don't feel him living in secret is any more of a retcon than Maul still being alive while Palpatine was fooling around with Dooku and Anakin.

2 hours ago, BrickBob Studpants said:

I could call this the Luigi‘s Pizzeria of Star Wars, but I‘m not gonna be that mean  Who would such a set be aimed at though? We don‘t tend to get vehicles that are not featured in any action scenes.

Joke's on you Mr. BrickBob, two people have already noticed this set and commented that it actually sounds really cool.

(But in all seriousness, I don't think a set with a super cool, luxurious aircraft and an easter-eggy artifact display shop wouldn't catch anyone's eye. Only if for how different it was from other Star Wars sets. )

[TotoMagnus]

3 hours ago, Alexandrina said:

I definitely think it's an issue with media discussion in general that people are willing to overlook minor flaws in things they enjoy and be harsh on those same flaws in things they don't enjoy. I've had people jumping down my throat in the past on other sites for saying that I think there are small issues with ESB - not that I don't enjoy it, or think it's great, but that there are some things which could be better. (And this goes for all films). With ESB specifically, I have a theory that while it's a very good film as a whole, the fact that the final act is one of the best in all of cinema, and had fifteen years to gestate before the Internet became widespread, has inflated its reputation a little bit; the film up to the reveal of Vader on Bespin is a lot more inconsistent than the film on the home stretch. I love it despite the flaws, mind.

Since small derailing got greenlit a bit, I would like to chime in ☺️

I think you are right with your bit about media discussion nowadays. I do remember seeing tons of videos discussing the „flawed“ Throne Room fight in TLJ by going through it in half /quarter speed. Then, a couple of weeks ago, the Khetanna release got me hyped up and I stumbled upon one(!) video goung through the Battle of Carkoon in 0.25 speed (I think the whole channel is this kind of content). I knew of the (infamous) Force Kick and Boba shooting more at the suns of Tatooine instead of Luke but damn! So many inconsistencies within these 7 Minutes

Ranking the Saga movies is hard for me. I love them all, some more than others but I can only tell my most favorite and least favorite for sure:

Most favorite is Empire. Star Wars on a whole, I see more as a fairy tale, especially the OT. And Empire feels the most fairytalish, the most mythical to me. The is also a darkness in it but the last scene oozes hope and this gets me everytime. 
 

Least favorite would be Clones. While I do like the Obi arc, most of the rest falls flat on its face to me. This Episode is also the worst to me when it comes to the „art of filmmaking“, mostly in the cutting department (since you, Alexandrina mentioned technical aspects before) IIRC, Ben Burtt was the editor of the PT. I love his sound design but editing he should have given to someone else entirely. Also the wooden acting shines through the most in this movie. Plus it has some of the worst looking VFX and bluescreen scenes of the entire saga. 
 

Some extra words to the Sequels: I see flaws in them, sure. The humour in 8 I can‘t stand for example. Also that there are barely any ship silhouettes you can point at and say: That‘s from the ST! (I think EC Henry has a good video on this on YT). 
When I first heard the title „Rise of Skywalker“ I thought we would get a successor to the Jedi order, some form of grey Jedi calling themselves Skywalker so I‘m disappointed with the movie outcome. 
 

But still…the ST gives me more of a fairy tale feeling than the PT or Rogue One (still a movie I really really like). 

[JohnTPT17]

1 hour ago, THELEGOBATMAN said:

At last, after all these years, we are finally getting Kylo Ren's helmet as a set. In May, 75415 (along with his midi-scale shuttle, 75406).

Well... There's your chance, Sequel fans! It's obviously not what everyone would have wanted, but I'm sure Lego will be keeping an eye on those sale numbers and compare them with the Invisible Hand and other prequel-oriented stuff from this year - especially as it relates to a non-kid, non-playset demographic. 

39 minutes ago, THELEGOBATMAN said:

It's certainly a controversial script, but I'll take something uniquely bad over generically bad any day.

That's where I'm at with it as well - at absolute worst, the toys would have been a lot more cool. I think one more script rewrite to iron out a few flaws would have made for a great movie.

 

If we're going to rank the movies, here's about how I would rank them off the top of my head:

1. Best of the Best: Empire Strikes Back, Revenge of the Sith, Rogue One
2. Really Good: A New Hope, Phantom Menace, Return of the Jedi
3. Okay Popcorn Flicks: The Force Awakens, Attack of the Clones, Solo, Clone Wars Movie
4. Don't like: The Last Jedi, Rise of Skywalker

And if we include TV shows to those categories:

1. Peak: Rebels
2. Best of the Best: The later half of The Clone Wars, Empire Strikes Back, Revenge of the Sith, Rogue One, The Freemaker Adventures (yes, seriously)
3. Really Good: A New Hope, Andor, The first half of The Clone Wars, Phantom Menace, Return of the Jedi, Tales of the Jedi, Mandalorian (weighed down by Season 3)
4. Okay Popcorn Flicks: Most Lego Star Wars media, The Force Awakens, The Bad Batch, Tales of the Empire, Attack of the Clones, Solo, Clone Wars Movie
5. Don't Like: Book of Boba Fett, The Last Jedi, Rise of Skywalker, Kenobi, Ahsoka
6. Haven't and Probably Won't Watch: Resistance, The Acolyte

When it comes to how I like Star Wars, I think that the characters are my biggest draw. I like to be inspired by their struggles and triumphs, choosing and doing good, and overcoming one's flaws (or, conversely, how one might not overcome). Rebels nails that with all of its main cast and one of the primary villains, and I feel like my Top 3 movies balance these the most. The Freemaker Adventures isn't really on that level, but all of the protagonists have an active role to play and we see a lot of unique locations and ideas from a "civilian" side of Star Wars. Other movies either have weaker stories, weaker villains, or have characters that act out of how I think they would behave (looking at you, Last Jedi). There's obviously a lot of subjectivity to it, and I know people appreciate these movies/shows for very different reasons (or have different opinions on the stories/characters) but that's mostly where I'm at with it.

Also, hot take on Andor: When it hits, it REALLY hits, but the beginning of the series with the heist is far too slow and plodding for my taste. Shave off about and episode and a half from before the prison arc, and it's above Rogue One on my list. 

35 minutes ago, THELEGOBATMAN said:

(But in all seriousness, I don't think a set with a super cool, luxurious aircraft and an easter-eggy artifact display shop wouldn't catch anyone's eye. Only if for how different it was from other Star Wars sets. )

It might be bad so say... But a location based shop with at least two girls in cute dresses could be a draw for some younger girls in a way an X-wing wouldn't be. Not that it would need to be pink of anything - and it can obviously have the secret back room for more play, and I can easily see some of those same girls using it either for spy stuff or for a simple back room - but I think a set based on that location actually has a lot of potential.

[Rwbricks]

3 minutes ago, TotoMagnus said:

Some extra words to the Sequels: I see flaws in them, sure. The humour in 8 I can‘t stand for example. Also that there are barely any ship silhouettes you can point at and say: That‘s from the ST! (I think EC Henry has a good video on this on YT). 

But still…the ST gives me more of a fairy tale feeling than the PT or Rogue One (still a movie I really really like). 

As much as I love the Sequels (at least the first two), the lack of distinction in the vehicles is somewhat disappointing. I would say that Rey’s Speeder and Kylo’s shuttle have interesting and recognizable silhouettes, and there are other more different style ships, like the First Order Transporter and Resistance transports, but those are less visually striking. (Speaking of the Resistance transport pod, does anyone remember ForceGhostSolo?)

 

I’m happy to hear about Kylo’s helmet. I wonder if it will be TFA or TRoS based. If it’s the latter, the red lines will probably just be stickers. Still, getting more sets based on the Sequels is nice. Hopefully this will lead to more. 

[Alexandrina]

5 minutes ago, JohnTPT17 said:

Well... There's your chance, Sequel fans! It's obviously not what everyone would have wanted, but I'm sure Lego will be keeping an eye on those sale numbers and compare them with the Invisible Hand and other prequel-oriented stuff from this year - especially as it relates to a non-kid, non-playset demographic. 

I will be annoyed if the future of Sequel-based sets hinges on a helmet. It's a range that holds less than zero interest for me, and I already can't afford all the sets each year that I am interested in.

I'm worried I might get chased off the forum for this but if ranking the films (purely based on how much I enjoy them, I'm leaving technical aspects aside here):

1. ANH
2. TFA
3. RotJ
4. R1
5. TLJ
6. RotS
7. ESB
8. TPM
9. Solo
10. AotC
11. TRoS

And for the TV series:

1. Andor
2. The Mandalorian
3. Kenobi
4. Boba Fett
5. Ahsoka
6. Clone Wars

(Other than Andor and about 2/3 of the first two seasons of Mandalorian, I don't think any of the TV material is worth watching)

[ARC2149Nova]

1 hour ago, BrickBob Studpants said:

With a Poe and Rey romance that comes out of nowhere, Plagueis being retconned, and Hux turning into a knock-off Grievous, committing seppuku with a lightsaber, saying „we lost the star war“?!

I concede to your rebuttal. 

46 minutes ago, CloneCommando99 said:

Since we’re ranking SW films. Imma do my own opinion (I love them all, some more than others)

1. ESB
2. ROTS
3. ANH
4. RO
5. ROTJ
6. TFA
7. TPM/ AOTC/ TLJ/ Solo
8. TROS
9. TCWM

Decent list.

As far as the shows go, as the years go by, I abandon the 2008 Clone Wars in favor of the Multi Media Project more and more. I get that it's not Disney Canon, but I don't really care about "canon" anymore. But based solely on how I felt as the shows were released:

In a tier by itself: SW:CW (2003)

Disney Canon:

• TCW (All of it, Seasons 1-3 are my favorites)
• Andor (glad I waited to watch it after the whole thing released)
• The Mandalorian (All of it, S3 was weak but ok)
• Rebels (Rather hit or miss, and only a few arcs still hold up imo)
• Resistance (Yes. I watched Resistance. Yes. I liked Resistance. Yes. I'm as surprised as you are)
• TBB (Not a fan of the filler. Too many "monster/heist of the week" episodes, too little Empire/Clone Rebellion)
• Ahsoka (Not going to get into why, but a lot of head scratching went on here)
• Kenobi (Legends comics were better, this breaks continuity and raises more questions than answers)
• TBoBF (I was promised the Sopranos in Space. Not whatever that was. Fennec & Mando were the best parts of that whole show)
• The Acolyte (Haven't watched, don't care too.)

I will say, my biggest is with Disney is that their stuff is good in a vacuum. Once you start lining things up with the six Lucas films, the tone is off, and a lot of story decisions don't fit with the established universe. By that metric, I'd say Andor and the first two Mandalorian seasons are the best.

25 minutes ago, TotoMagnus said:

Star Wars on a whole, I see more as a fairy tale, especially the OT. And Empire feels the most fairytalish, the most mythical to me. The is also a darkness in it but the last scene oozes hope and this gets me everytime. 
 

But still…the ST gives me more of a fairy tale feeling than the PT or Rogue One (still a movie I really really like). 

The OT is a Space Opera (hence the fairy tale vibe), the PT is a Shakespearean Tragedy (most obviously in ROTS). The ST tries to be a modern Sci-Fi Fantasy, but just ends up feeling derivative of the OT. It's not alone in this, the Jurassic World movies suffer a similar dissonance with it's predecessor Park trilogy.

17 minutes ago, Rwbricks said:

As much as I love the Sequels (at least the first two), the lack of distinction in the vehicles is somewhat disappointing. I would say that Rey’s Speeder and Kylo’s shuttle have interesting and recognizable silhouettes, and there are other more different style ships, like the First Order Transporter and Resistance transports, but those are less visually striking.

I really like the First Order Transport. Very WWII inspired. It's the one ship I want Lego to remake. The FO's vehicles where actually pretty nice (AT-M6. the star destroyers, even the snowspeeder), it's just the Resistance that could've used a bit more flaire.

[TotoMagnus]

24 minutes ago, ARC2149Nova said:

 

The OT is a Space Opera (hence the fairy tale vibe), the PT is a Shakespearean Tragedy (most obviously in ROTS). The ST tries to be a modern Sci-Fi Fantasy, but just ends up feeling derivative of the OT. It's not alone in this, the Jurassic World movies suffer a similar dissonance with it's predecessor Park trilogy

See, for me the PT is the one trilogy that tries to be something, in this case a shakespearean tragedy. To me a tragedy needs for example better dialogue, something better than „I wish I could wish away my feelings“. Don‘t get me wrong, there are strong scenes I really dig which are tragic in the right way, like the immolation scene or Padme‘s rumination in 3 but it‘s spread to thinly. 
 

Also, Star Wars works best to me when it‘s more vague in certain aspects, like the Force or in its characters (Boba Fett). Sometimes I don‘t want explanations for certain things, I want to use my own imagination to fill in gaps.

For example the Holdo maneuver: I imagined her punching in some Admiral-level password to override the security system to allow her to either jump through the Supremacy or micro jump straight into the ship. Didn’t Han warn Luke about flying right through a star? So to me, a jump right through a ship seems possible as well. 
 

And since OT and ST are more in a Fantasy vein, I feel more of a dissonance between the PT and the rest of the family. 
 

Phew. All this talking reminds me to start my annual rewatch of the 11 movies 😁

[Darth_Bane13]

In regards to The Last Jedi I just can't get over how they ruined Luke Skywalker. The whole idea of him just running away to live on an island for ten years while the empire rises again and instead of helping the resistance he does nothing... that is not the same Luke from the OT. while I think the whole igniting lightsaber because his nephew had a bad dream is quite silly I could've looked past it had he not gone into hiding for so long while countless people died. Then he just dies because he was thinking to hard, instead of finding a way to live on and help the resistance who obviously would've benefitted from having arguably the most powerful Jedi to ever live. While I can appreciate Rian for trying to subvert expectations and do something original, (unlike JJ who just copy and pasted ANH) I think he fails because a lack of knowledge of the source materials and perhaps a lack of respect for it. No it's not good just because it "subverted expectations", it has to make sense too. The "A song of ice and fire" books subvert expectations all the time, the difference is George RR Martin actually knows how to write characters.

 

Anyway I haven't seen anyone defending TROS here, can we all agree it's awful?

[THELEGOBATMAN]

Since we're all doing rankings, I don't see why I shouldn't do one (or two). But beware, dear nerds—controversial opinions ahead... (!):

1. The Last Jedi
2. Return of the Jedi
3. A New Hope
4. Rogue One
5. Empire Strikes Back
6. The Force Awakens
7. Revenge of the Sith
8. Solo
9. The Phantom Menace
10. The Rise of Skywalker
11. Attack of the Clones

1. Andor
2. Visions
3. The Clone Wars
4. The Acolyte
5. The Mandalorian
6. Tales of the Jedi
7. The Book of Boba Fett
8. Obi-Wan Kenobi

I won't elaborate on most of those in this post, since it'd take at least a few more paragraphs. Although I have to say that Andor is my favourite series of all time (along with Ted Lasso), and The Last Jedi is easily my favourite movie out of those (none of them come close for me).

Oh, and I haven't seen all the other series.

[TotoMagnus]

12 minutes ago, Darth_Bane13 said:

Anyway I haven't seen anyone defending TROS here, can we all agree it's awful?

I wouldn‘t say that it’s awful. Least favorite of the ST, yeah maybe but there are still things I do like and scenes that pull my strings in a good way. The last shot for example. The whole bit on Tatooine gives me a warm farewell and god speed feeling. 
 

But I do think that it never had a (fair) chance to succeed all the way, being a child of exaggerated hate (fanbase side) and cowardice (Disney) and of course the tragedy of Carrie Fisher‘s death (since it was meant to be „her“ Episode. 7 being a Han vehicle and 8 a Luke one). 

[Darth_Bane13]

I'm kind of surprised to see so much love for the sequels here, I thought most people hated them. It's interesting to get a variety of opinions here.

[icm]

For me, the character development of Luke, Rey, and Kylo is the strongest part of TLJ.

I once read a blog post that argued that Luke's "superpower" was empathy for others, and that in the original trilogy he "won by losing." After his aunt and uncle are killed, he runs off to Alderaan to save the princess he's never met, then he insists on rescuing her when they're on the Death Star instead of sitting tight and waiting for Obi-Wan to deactivate the tractor beam. After the battle of Hoth, he leaves his Jedi training against Yoda's wishes to run off to Cloud City to save Han and Leia because he's not willing to stand by and let them suffer and die because of him, then when he is at his lowest point he wins a moral victory by refusing to join Vader, even though he nearly falls to his death by doing so. Once he's physically recovered, he enlists all his friends to rescue Han from Jabba the Hutt, after Han was captured because of him. On the second Death Star, he wins a moral victory by throwing away his lightsaber and refusing to fight anymore, even though it means the Emperor will kill him then and there - and it is that sacrifice, and empathy for his fallen and wounded father, that changes Vader's heart and leads to the death of the Emperor.

Luke does his very best to do the right thing and help his friends, even at great personal cost - but never at the cost of his own soul and honor. When training with Yoda, he shows great respect for the ancient mystic Jedi arts, despite knowing next to nothing about the history of the Jedi. For me it seems entirely consistent with that for Luke to choose the ascetic way of the mystic ancient Jedi, rather than the deeply political police powers of the fallen recent Jedi, as he seeks to find his own way in the Force after the fall of the Empire, and to rebuild the Jedi Order in a way that will avoid the mistakes of the recent past. I have no problem whatsoever with him establishing an ascetic mystic temple on a remote planet, and questing around the galaxy seeking ancient Jedi lore, instead of getting deeply engaged in the politics of the New Republic.

But he is aware of the darkness in his own soul and the darkness in his family, and presumably it wasn't a single bad dream that Ben Solo had - it must have been an extended pattern of bad behavior. It doesn't seem wildly out of character to me that a man with such a pattern of impulsive derring-do and violent solutions to problems as a youth would, in a moment of weakness, briefly yield to an intrusive thought so far as to pull out his lightsaber - and then, just as quickly, repent and "be left with shame - and consequences." It also seems entirely in character to me that he would consider himself responsible for provoking the slaughter and destruction that followed, and then withdraw from society to dedicate his life to the pursuit of wisdom in a remote ascetic hermitage like his two Jedi trainers, Obi-Wan and Yoda. Let's not forget that ascetic hermits in remote locations were the only Jedi he ever knew in the OT, so that's his idea of what it means to be a Jedi! Luke knows that his two mentors went into exile after failing to stop Vader and Palpatine, so he thinks it's only natural and proper for him to go into exile after causing this great disaster and failing to stop the rise of Ren and Snoke. He goes into exile because he's so ashamed, he doesn't know how Han and Leia can ever forgive him for what he almost did to their son, and what their son became in response. He goes into exile because he doesn't think it's safe for him to be around other people anymore.

When Rey finds him and asks for help, years later, I do think it's a little out of character for him to toss the lightsaber away like a banana peel. I don't like that moment. But it makes perfect sense to me that he would initially refuse to help her, and then slowly come around. He's been on the island for so long, and she's making a really big request of him. Does she think he's going to march out there with a laser sword and take on the whole First Order himself? He learned at Cloud City, decades ago, that he can't just march in there with a laser sword and take on the whole Empire himself. He learned at Hoth, just before that, that he can't just jump in a snowspeeder and take on the whole Empire himself - he may take down one walker, but he'll get shot down in his turn. And he has vowed never to leave the island. So for me it's actually quite a powerful moment that he manages to do everything Rey has ever asked of him - to go to Crait to help the Resistance, to confront Kylo Ren, to march out there with a laser sword and take on the whole First Order himself - without sacrificing his own hermetic vow to himself to live and die on that island. Moreover, in his unprecedented (at least in the feature films) display of Force projection, he is actually more effective than if he was there in person. As a flesh and blood man with a laser sword standing on the salt flats of Crait, he could not possibly survive being bombarded by however many First Order walkers at once, but as a Force projection he can. This draws Kylo Ren out for single combat, thus delaying the First Order advance longer than if he were actually there in person. This gives the Resistance more time to escape, and a greater symbol of hope in miraculous intervention. Then, having aided his friends and his sister and the Resistance without violating his vow, he is able to pass away with "peace, and purpose" like his mentors Obi-Wan and Yoda. I think it's an ingenious solution to his dilemma, and it has great thematic resonance for me.

So yeah, I think Luke's character arc in TLJ is great. I like the character arcs of Rey and Kylo a lot too, and I think that Rey and Kylo have great chemistry in TLJ - better than in TFA or TROS anyway. I don't like the Canto Bight subplot with Finn and Rose so much, or the slow chase between the First Order and Resistance fleets, but I like Snoke's ship and I like the Holdo maneuver. I agree with others in this thread that TFA and TLJ have a lot of really great cinematic moments in terms of the composition and lighting of the shots, that is, the cinematography. TFA and especially TLJ show a lot of filmmaking craft in the way the story is put together and how the plot threads all come together at the same time. But they have a lot of problems too.

Here's my tier list for the movies:

A tier: TESB, ANH, R1

B tier: TLJ, TFA, ROTS

C tier: TPM, ROTJ

D tier: AOTC, Solo

F tier: TROS

Edit - I mostly stay quiet about it because there's a lot of sequel hate, but I actually do really like TFA and TLJ. TFA is basically a beat-for-beat remake of ANH, but it's got big gleeful energy, whiz bang this is so fun! and it's got great set pieces, effects, acting, and music. TLJ has a lot of problems but I really respect it for trying to be something other than a beat-for-beat remake of TESB, and it's also got great set pieces, effects, acting, and music. They both have problems, but there's a lot of themes and character development that I like in both of them. I'm in the camp of love-TLJ, hate-TROS, but I still bought almost all of the TROS sets, plus several TLJ sets and most of the TFA sets.

Edited November 5, 2024 by icm

[Alexandrina]

I've dug out the "Duel of the Fates" script, but I can't actually find any source confirming it's real. Even the Wiki article just says 'before it was confirmed as real' but doesn't give any source for that.

I dunno... it doesn't read to me as especially well-written, the dialogue in particular, and it feels more like the sort of thing you'd get if a fan of the books tried to marry their favourite Legends material with the sequels pre-TROS. Even the apparently-great Ben/Luke ghost scene is just all a bit meh to me.

[THELEGOBATMAN]

2 minutes ago, Alexandrina said:

I've dug out the "Duel of the Fates" script, but I can't actually find any source confirming it's real. Even the Wiki article just says 'before it was confirmed as real' but doesn't give any source for that.

I dunno... it doesn't read to me as especially well-written, the dialogue in particular, and it feels more like the sort of thing you'd get if a fan of the books tried to marry their favourite Legends material with the sequels pre-TROS. Even the apparently-great Ben/Luke ghost scene is just all a bit meh to me.

If it has 131 pages and starts like this...

EXT. SPACE

A rich tapestry of stars, reaching beyond all we know.

Two sharp points of a space station enclose the sides of the frame as we drift backwards into the glowing rectangular entrance of a DOCKING BAY.

...then yeah, it's real. I've had it saved for quite some time (I love collecting and reading unrealised scripts).