In YouTube are speculating about the end of yellow heads

[El Garfio]

Due to this campaign where non licensed minifigs have flesh skin heads

Some YouTubers are speculating about introducing flesh skin heads to all the lines for enforce diversity visibility 

The use of flesh skin heads is working well in Friends

Lego flesh skin head minifigs are more usual than yellow head ones due to the amount of licensed lines that Lego is managing

What do you think? 

Do you would find it a lose of a main traditional aspect of the toy? Or do you would find it positive? 

[Peppermint_M]

Oof, I think LEGO knows that the massive pushback would cause real problems for them. Youtubers are going to "create" things for views - this sort of speculation would garner a lot of attention!

I like the Yellow heads, the fleshtone figures have grown on me over the years, but I still like using simple yellow. 

A permanent change is unlikely to be on the cards. It would feel like Ferrari marketing cars in colours other than Red! 

[Lyichir]

I wouldn't necessarily assume that these pictures mean flesh-tone heads are arriving for all themes (especially since these promotional characters do not seem to appear in any actual themes or sets).

That said, if or when Lego does transition to all flesh tone heads... I feel it'll take some time for people to adapt. But I also feel like it's sort of been a long time coming. The inadequacy of yellow to truly represent all real-life people was apparent way back when the transition was first made for licensed themes. And the current system (yellow for unlicensed themes, flesh tones for licensed ones and Friends) sort of works as a stopgap, but relying mainly on Hollywood franchises to carry the weight of representation creates major issues, especially given that Hollywood blockbusters tend to have their own issues with adequately representing women and people of color.

For example, one of the themes that currently offers a wide range of skin tones is Harry Potter—but even setting aside my distaste for the books' creator aside, there's no avoiding the fact that the main recurring characters of the series are all represented by white actors, with people of color largely appearing in side or background roles if at all. The Black Panther sets probably were the first license that featured mainly people of color, but its larger-than-life Afrofuturist fantasy elements make some of its character designs less useful as basic sorts of stock characters for populating a normal sort of city scene. One of the best minifigure-based sets in recent years for representation has been the Table Football set, and it's probably not a coincidence that it's one of the only sets with flesh-toned figs who are not based on a specific licensed property. Meanwhile, as divisive as the figure design itself can be, the Friends theme has done a great job showing how well realistic skin tones can work in an original theme with realistic characters.

One of the biggest hurdles with shifting over completely to flesh-toned figures, for fans, is the challenge of customizability. But the sooner that change happens, the easier it will be for people to get over that hurdle, as a wider range of skin tones becoming more common would make it easier to customize flesh-toned figs.

Anyway this is a lot of words, mostly restating things I've said before and probably will say again at some point. TL;DR I don't think the change to flesh-toned figs is imminent, but I do think that while such a change would be divisive and adapting would be a challenge, it would probably be for the best overall if or when it happens.

[El Garfio]

30 minutes ago, Peppermint_M said:

Oof, I think LEGO knows that the massive pushback would cause real problems for them. Youtubers are going to "create" things for views - this sort of speculation would garner a lot of attention!

I like the Yellow heads, the fleshtone figures have grown on me over the years, but I still like using simple yellow. 

A permanent change is unlikely to be on the cards. It would feel like Ferrari marketing cars in colours other than Red! 

But Lego is marketing its minifigs in colors different than yellow in posters that are shown in all the official stores and in all the webs and toyshops that use Lego official promotional stuff 

Edited November 30, 2023 by El Garfio

[Peppermint_M]

 

1 minute ago, El Garfio said:

But Lego is marketing its minifigs in colors different than yellow in posters that are shown in all the official store and in all the webs and toyshops that use Lego official promotional stuff 

It is to tie in with the advertising on TV/Social Media. We're not getting a Jane Lynch figure (As cool as that would be). The most recent campaign is using actual human actors so the figures would match those actual humans. 

[The Island Chronicles]

I doubt this would happen, especially for City. Imagine City being full of flesh Toned people. That would cause outrage. Especially in the police sets. As a black American, I wouldn't like it either. 

Edited November 30, 2023 by The Brick Boss

[Rogue Redcoat]

As much as I would like this there is no way, Lego makes minifigs in flesh colors if they are based on real people (besides Lego friends). 

[Lion King]

Nah, i love yellow minifigures and I collect characters from non-licensed themes, such as City, Ninjago, DreamZzz Monkie Kid, Hidden Side, Vidiyo, Rocr and more!

and minidolls are fleshie in non-licensed theme, Friends. But no thanks to fleshie minifiugres in non-licensed themes. 

[MAB]

It wouldn't work for City. If they do a police set with a light nougat cop and a reddish brown crook, there will be negative press and rioters attacking LEGO stores. And if they don't do brown crooks and only white ones, they'd be racist for not daring to do it.

2 hours ago, El Garfio said:

Some YouTubers are speculating about introducing flesh skin heads to all the lines for enforce diversity visibility 

What do you think? 

I think people make money by stirring up controversial subjects on youtube. 

[El Garfio]

What race is Wanda About?

Lego is representing black people and Asian people with yellow faces using hair pieces and in the case of Asian also facial features

But it's not able to represent nowadays Latin people or Indian people with yellow faces 

Lego is not able to represent a Mexican guy without falling in stereotypes like the moustache and the big hat (how many nowadays Mexican guys wear a moustache? And how many Mexican guys go outside wearing a Mariachi hat?)

And the same for people from Indian subcontinent. They are only able to mark them as Indians putting them a turban 

[MAB]

2 hours ago, El Garfio said:

Lego is not able to represent a Mexican guy without falling in stereotypes like the moustache and the big hat (how many nowadays Mexican guys wear a moustache? And how many Mexican guys go outside wearing a Mariachi hat?)

 

LEGO are not representing all Mexicans when they do that. This guy, ...

He is not meant to represent all Mexicans. He is a person dressed as a Mariachi, just like these guys. 

That does not mean all Mexicans dress that way.

These guys could also be Mexican,

 

as could many others. They could of course be from any country, as could many other minifigures. They just happen to be dressed as a carpenter and a baseball player, like the other figure is dressed in a traditional Mariachi outfit. The only way you would definitely know they were Mexican is if LEGO added enough stereotypical accessories to point to them being Mexican. Take away all the stereotypical clothing and accessories of anyone and they are just an anonymous person.

There are many other minifigures in stereotypical national or regional dress from around the world. There is a danger that if people complain that a figure is too stereotypical and not representing a whole population, those sort of figures would not be produced in future. Would we be any better off losing this type of figure in favour of much plainer figures?

 

[Peppermint_M]

A child playing with a figure will identify it according to the expression/features more than anything. A figure with a mustache and glasses might resemble their Uncle, the figure with a big smile is the lady who greets them at the supermarket.

The generic yellow tone is a placeholder for their own narrative.

[Yperio_Bricks]

3 hours ago, MAB said:

There are many other minifigures in stereotypical national or regional dress from around the world. There is a danger that if people complain that a figure is too stereotypical and not representing a whole population, those sort of figures would not be produced in future. Would we be any better off losing this type of figure in favour of much plainer figures?

 

 

The thing is, for example, nobody cares if all Germans are portrayed like they are wearing traditional Bavarian clothing, namely a Dirndl dress or Lederhosen leather pants. These clothes are famous in the world only because of the Bavarian booze and puke fest aka Oktoberfest Of course we know that not every Scotsman wears a kilt, that not every Englishman wears a bowler hat or every Japanese woman has her face painted white. At the end it always comes down to politics and it is a potential minefield for Lego.

Edited December 1, 2023 by Peppermint_M
Please don't quote pictures.

[MAB]

48 minutes ago, Yperio_Bricks said:

The thing is, for example, nobody cares if all Germans are portrayed like they are wearing traditional Bavarian clothing, namely a Dirndl dress or Lederhosen leather pants. These clothes are famous in the world only because of the Bavarian booze and puke fest aka Oktoberfest

Surely it depends on the situation. I can imagine Germans in other situations or doing other jobs where they are not wearing Lederhosen, just as I can imagine not every Mexican wears a Mariachi outfit. I imagine it would be quite offensive if an international news agency went to, for example, a BASF lab to do a segment on them and asked all the researchers to dress in traditional dress and had oompah music playing to make it clear that they are in Germany. Whereas if they went to an Oktoberfest event, it would be expected.

[Yperio_Bricks]

24 minutes ago, MAB said:

Surely it depends on the situation. I can imagine Germans in other situations or doing other jobs where they are not wearing Lederhosen, just as I can imagine not every Mexican wears a Mariachi outfit. I imagine it would be quite offensive if an international news agency went to, for example, a BASF lab to do a segment on them and asked all the researchers to dress in traditional dress and had oompah music playing to make it clear that they are in Germany. Whereas if they went to an Oktoberfest event, it would be expected.

Sure! I was talking about the Bavarian minifigure shown above. I don't know if all, but many of the international audience would identify her as German. Same as the other minfigs were you can instantly tell which country they represent. Of course we know that it is just a (fun) stereotype and that one minfigure does not represent a whole country or its people. My point is, that nobody cares if there is a stereotypical minfigure that resembles a German (while in fact it shows traditional clothes from Bavaria) while with other stereotypical minfigures Lego may enter a minefield. Sames as with yellow/fleshies.

[Karalora]

I want to address the claim that (paraphrasing) "without realistic skin tones, LEGO has to use costume stereotypes to unambiguously represent specific ethnicities." Because with realistic skin tones, LEGO would still have to use costume stereotypes to unambiguously represent specific ethnicities. A skin tone is just a skin tone, and people the world over come in dark, light, and everything inbetween. Is a medium nougat minifigure South Asian? Southeast Asian? Latino? Biracial? A white person with a suntan? First Nations? More details would still be required, and those would have to come from the costuming.

We had a thread a while back about whether LEGO should ditch the yellow and only produce fleshies, and I think the overall consensus was that fleshies are appropriate in licensed lines where they represent specific characters who have a known race and skin tone, but for City and other unlicensed themes, yellow makes a pretty good generic person who can be any race.

[MAB]

33 minutes ago, Yperio_Bricks said:

Sure! I was talking about the Bavarian minifigure shown above. I don't know if all, but many of the international audience would identify her as German. Same as the other minfigs were you can instantly tell which country they represent. Of course we know that it is just a (fun) stereotype and that one minfigure does not represent a whole country or its people. My point is, that nobody cares if there is a stereotypical minfigure that resembles a German (while in fact it shows traditional clothes from Bavaria) while with other stereotypical minfigures Lego may enter a minefield. Sames as with yellow/fleshies.

Yes, and no doubt most people would identify the Mariachi figure as Mexican. I don't believe dressing as a Mariachi is offensive, as many people (whether Mexican or not) dress up like that for employment or touristic reasons. The comment I was responding to was "Lego is not able to represent a Mexican guy without falling in stereotypes like the moustache and the big hat". I disagree with that. Doing a Mariachi is not saying that all Mexicans are Mariachis. Like Karalora's comment above, the only way you can unambiguously represent a national character is to use a stereotype or to include some accessory to identify their nationality (maybe a typical sports shirt, or a flag). It is the stereotype that unambiguously identifies them. If they did a Mexican mechanic, it would look similar to an Afghan or Zimbabwean mechanic, and everything in between, otherwise it wouldn't look like a mechanic. The stereotype is that it is a mechanic and not the nationality. But that doesn't mean they don't represent Mexicans as mechanics, scientists, plumbers, etc. as they don't say this is definitely a Mexican mechanic, just a mechanic.

[The Island Chronicles]

4 hours ago, MAB said:

LEGO are not representing all Mexicans when they do that. This guy, ...

He is not meant to represent all Mexicans. He is a person dressed as a Mariachi, just like these guys. 

That does not mean all Mexicans dress that way.

These guys could also be Mexican,

 

as could many others. They could of course be from any country, as could many other minifigures. They just happen to be dressed as a carpenter and a baseball player, like the other figure is dressed in a traditional Mariachi outfit. The only way you would definitely know they were Mexican is if LEGO added enough stereotypical accessories to point to them being Mexican. Take away all the stereotypical clothing and accessories of anyone and they are just an anonymous person.

There are many other minifigures in stereotypical national or regional dress from around the world. There is a danger that if people complain that a figure is too stereotypical and not representing a whole population, those sort of figures would not be produced in future. Would we be any better off losing this type of figure in favour of much plainer figures?

 

I agree! I actually like that perspective. 

[El Garfio]

I not sure about kids being them of they families represented by a yellow head minifig 

Nowadays kids need to empathize with the figure, is due to Lego has named even city minifigs and transform them into a character

And maybe, kids will be able to empathize more with minifigs with their same flesh tone skin than with yellow head

I know that Lego made the figs yellow to avoid race issues. But they had to break their own rule when a sw character (Lando) was not recognized for having yellow skin

And later seeing that was ridiculous that one character were flesh and the other yellow decided to make licensed characters all flesh 

I know, that most of us have grown with yellow figs and losing them is like losing a part of our past, but the nowadays world is quite different from the one we lived as kids, teens or even adults

14 hours ago, MAB said:

It wouldn't work for City. If they do a police set with a light nougat cop and a reddish brown crook, there will be negative press and rioters attacking LEGO stores. And if they don't do brown crooks and only white ones, they'd be racist for not daring to do it.

Crooks are all white, mostly rednecks. 

The face features and hair (blond or redhead) of crooks make them white

You can customize crooks due to there are some hairs that fit better with racialized people, and make figs look like they have dark skin although they have yellow head

[Yperio_Bricks]

3 minutes ago, El Garfio said:

I know that Lego made the figs yellow to avoid race issues.

Actually i think this is a explanation that has been applied retroactive and Lego was lucky that it fitted the narrative well for many years. I am sure that in first days of the minifigure and during development in the 70s nobody ever thought about yellow minfigs beeing of an other skin tone than white.

Here's my personal opinion on yellow vs fleshies. I was born 1983 and grew up with only yellow minfigures but i am 100% sure that already as a kid i would have prefered skin tones because they are more realistic. Nowadays yellow minfigures look like fossils to me and i wonder why we still have them when there are much better ones available. I think the minifigures shown on the poster in the opening post look fantastic!! I too think Lego knows about this and i am sure they have done their own research. Like, asking children if they feel represented by this or that toy in a blinded experiment. And "by coincidence" one of the many toys presented in the survey was a yellow minfigure and others were minfigures with various skin tones. That's also the reason why Lego puts more non-white background characters in sets in recent years. Like in HP sets, or Marvel, ans there's also the recent Mandalorian Fleet Commander in SW sets/magazines.

It's the same with emojis. White people use yellow emojis while in my personal environment non-white people use emojis that are not yellow and represent them better.

Back to Lego. As i have said in an other thread, i am often very critical of the company but they are right when they go for more diversity and have disabled minfigures and minfigures of various skin tones. So all children (and adults) find themselves represented in the toy that they love playing with. I support that

[Lion King]

22 minutes ago, Yperio_Bricks said:

Actually i think this is a explanation that has been applied retroactive and Lego was lucky that it fitted the narrative well for many years. I am sure that in first days of the minifigure and during development in the 70s nobody ever thought about yellow minfigs beeing of an other skin tone than white.

Here's my personal opinion on yellow vs fleshies. I was born 1983 and grew up with only yellow minfigures but i am 100% sure that already as a kid i would have prefered skin tones because they are more realistic. Nowadays yellow minfigures look like fossils to me and i wonder why we still have them when there are much better ones available. I think the minifigures shown on the poster in the opening post look fantastic!! I too think Lego knows about this and i am sure they have done their own research. Like, asking children if they feel represented by this or that toy in a blinded experiment. And "by coincidence" one of the many toys presented in the survey was a yellow minfigure and others were minfigures with various skin tones. That's also the reason why Lego puts more non-white background characters in sets in recent years. Like in HP sets, or Marvel, ans there's also the recent Mandalorian Fleet Commander in SW sets/magazines.

It's the same with emojis. White people use yellow emojis while in my personal environment non-white people use emojis that are not yellow and represent them better.

Back to Lego. As i have said in an other thread, i am often very critical of the company but they are right when they go for more diversity and have disabled minfigures and minfigures of various skin tones. So all children (and adults) find themselves represented in the toy that they love playing with. I support that

Yup! Well said 

[El Garfio]

2 hours ago, Yperio_Bricks said:

Actually i think this is a explanation that has been applied retroactive and Lego was lucky that it fitted the narrative well for many years. I am sure that in first days of the minifigure and during development in the 70s nobody ever thought about yellow minfigs beeing of an other skin tone than white.

Here's my personal opinion on yellow vs fleshies. I was born 1983 and grew up with only yellow minfigures but i am 100% sure that already as a kid i would have prefered skin tones because they are more realistic. Nowadays yellow minfigures look like fossils to me and i wonder why we still have them when there are much better ones available. I think the minifigures shown on the poster in the opening post look fantastic!! I too think Lego knows about this and i am sure they have done their own research. Like, asking children if they feel represented by this or that toy in a blinded experiment. And "by coincidence" one of the many toys presented in the survey was a yellow minfigure and others were minfigures with various skin tones. That's also the reason why Lego puts more non-white background characters in sets in recent years. Like in HP sets, or Marvel, ans there's also the recent Mandalorian Fleet Commander in SW sets/magazines.

It's the same with emojis. White people use yellow emojis while in my personal environment non-white people use emojis that are not yellow and represent them better.

Back to Lego. As i have said in an other thread, i am often very critical of the company but they are right when they go for more diversity and have disabled minfigures and minfigures of various skin tones. So all children (and adults) find themselves represented in the toy that they love playing with. I support that

As I have said, nowadays kids need realistic characters to empathize with (the diversity of flesh tones, the inclusivity of people who has the same disability that they or somebody close, the personality, the hobbies, the dreams of who wanna be in future,...) 

Lego and other toys manufacturers are giving his dolls/figs a name, a personality, an identity,... because nowadays kids not invent them as we did in our childhood

Generic figures don't work today, because kids don't empathize with generic figures

[Robert8]

Geez I sure hope they stay yellow 

Edited December 1, 2023 by Robert8

[JohnTPT17]

2 hours ago, El Garfio said:

As I have said, nowadays kids need realistic characters to empathize with (the diversity of flesh tones, the inclusivity of people who has the same disability that they or somebody close, the personality, the hobbies, the dreams of who wanna be in future,...) 

Lego and other toys manufacturers are giving his dolls/figs a name, a personality, an identity,... because nowadays kids not invent them as we did in our childhood

Generic figures don't work today, because kids don't empathize with generic figures

I could be completely off my rocker here, but this doesn't really make any sense to me. To be clear, I'm on Team Yellow for non-licensed themes, and I can understand hairstyles/limb differences/hearing aids and all that, but children being incapable of empathizing with a "generic" figure? That I don't get. Wasn't the whole point of The Lego Movie that Finn (the human child) was able to put personality and meaning into an average, ordinary construction worker? And I looked through all 219 minifigures from this year in the Bricklink catalog under the "town" category, and only found seven that had a listed name. Sure, The Lego Movie came out almost a decade ago, and Bricklink could be missing some names (or I could have missed some), but I don't buy this at all.

 

6 hours ago, El Garfio said:

Crooks are all white, mostly rednecks. 

The face features and hair (blond or redhead) of crooks make them white

I think you might be seeing what you want to see here. What exactly about these minifigures (all from this year) looks like a "white redneck"? I'd say they look pretty generic.

[Peppermint_M]

17 minutes ago, JohnTPT17 said:

Hey, isn't that the Theranos woman?