42179 Planet Earth and Moon in Orbit

[R0Sch]

1 hour ago, aeh5040 said:

Ok, I understand, but it needs to be connected to the two turntables.

Like this. The 5L axles go into the back half of the large turntable. (They might be pins rather than axles). Edit: the 28t turntable should be the other way up here.

I see now, thanks for the explanation and photo. I made the corrections. Here is a better diagram showing the two axles and what they move and how the sun is geared. The only thing I'm unsure is if the lowest gear pair is a 36T + 12T or a 28 turntable +12T.  Never mind, it's not a 36T gear but a small 28T turntable connected half to the rotating beam and half to the lower fixed frame.
 

Edited December 6, 2023 by R0Sch

[aeh5040]

1 hour ago, R0Sch said:

I see now, thanks for the explanation and photo. I made the corrections. Here is a better diagram showing the two axles and what they move and how the sun is geared. The only thing I'm unsure is if the lowest gear pair is a 36T + 12T or a 28 turntable +12T.  Never mind, it's not a 36T gear but a small 28T turntable connected half to the rotating beam and half to the lower fixed frame.
 

Cool! This looks very plausible now! I think the 28t turntable under the sun can now be fixed to the frame, and then the Earth will hold its axial tilt. 

[Davidz90]

2 minutes ago, aeh5040 said:

Cool! This looks very plausible now! I think the 28t turntable under the sun can now be fixed to the frame, and then the Earth will hold its axial tilt. 

Yes, this appears to be the case. Pretty clever.

So it seems we have 27 day lunar month and also 27 day sun rotation period.

[aeh5040]

6 minutes ago, Davidz90 said:

Yes, this appears to be the case. Pretty clever.

So it seems we have 27 day lunar month and also 27 day sun rotation period.

It's quite beautiful. We still need the gearing to control the sun-earth arm but I'm guessing R0Sch is on the case...

[R0Sch]

1 hour ago, aeh5040 said:

It's quite beautiful. We still need the gearing to control the sun-earth arm but I'm guessing R0Sch is on the case...

That part is trickier than I thought. I can see under the main turntable two large black gears (probably 36T) and at least a 16T lbg gear underneath those. But can't find a viable connection to transfer the rotation to the main turntable. Maybe @Davidz90 or @aeh5040 can figure it out. I'm going to bed now. The file is updated.

[msk6003]

9 hours ago, aeh5040 said:

I am not seeing anything that looks new here.  This looks like a LBG pin with stop bush going through a blue 3L liftarm up into a white 3L perpendicular connector.  Underneath some arrangement of pins and connectors (there are several possibilities) will connect that to the 28t turntable below, passing through the hole in the 60t turntable.

Looks image again and read my comment again. It need 3x3 circle thing but center hole must have pin hole. You posted image which those part is replaced to normal DBG 3L beam.

[aeh5040]

33 minutes ago, msk6003 said:

Looks image again and read my comment again. It need 3x3 circle thing but center hole must have pin hole. You posted image which those part is replaced to normal DBG 3L beam.

There seems no evidence of a new part here - the version we have works IRL and is consistent with the pictures.

1 hour ago, R0Sch said:

That part is trickier than I thought. I can see under the main turntable two large black gears (probably 36T) and at least a 16T lbg gear underneath those. But can't find a viable connection to transfer the rotation to the main turntable. Maybe @Davidz90 or @aeh5040 can figure it out. I'm going to bed now. The file is updated.
 

Good work. This part is mysterious to me too. Since the central axle below the sun turns the moon with a 1:3 ratio, we expect something like 1:4 between this axle and the main arm turntable. Possibly 1:3 or 1:5 after account for compounding rotation. 20t-60t would be 1:3, so potentially the 20t gear should be turning at the same speed as the central axle. A series of horizontal 16ts would do it, but seems to get us to the wrong hole.

I am not seeing the large black gears, but perhaps you are better at spotting things!

Also is there room for a 20t turning the turntable with the gold support runner for the arm? Could the turntable be driven by a smaller off-centre gear? Maybe 12t?

Edited December 7, 2023 by aeh5040

[R0Sch]

6 hours ago, aeh5040 said:

I am not seeing the large black gears, but perhaps you are better at spotting things

This is what I mean:

[Davidz90]

@aeh5040 I think your math is a little off. The central axle is 3 times faster than the moon rotation, not slower, and the crank is another 3 times faster (12:36 in the base, assuming 2 black gear hypothesis is correct). So a period of 3 days (makes sense, hand crank needs to be geared down). Ideally we would want 1:120 gear ratio here. So maybe 1:2 + worm gear to the turntable or 20:60 to the turntable + 1:2 + 1:20 via worm gear?

[msk6003]

9 hours ago, R0Sch said:

That part is trickier than I thought. I can see under the main turntable two large black gears (probably 36T) and at least a 16T lbg gear underneath those. But can't find a viable connection to transfer the rotation to the main turntable. Maybe @Davidz90 or @aeh5040 can figure it out. I'm going to bed now. The file is updated.
 

looks like just 2 5x7 frame and 2 7L beam on 3L pin on top section and 3L bush pin on turntable.

Edited December 7, 2023 by msk6003

[aeh5040]

3 hours ago, Davidz90 said:

@aeh5040 I think your math is a little off. The central axle is 3 times faster than the moon rotation, not slower, and the crank is another 3 times faster (12:36 in the base, assuming 2 black gear hypothesis is correct). So a period of 3 days (makes sense, hand crank needs to be geared down). Ideally we would want 1:120 gear ratio here. So maybe 1:2 + worm gear to the turntable or 20:60 to the turntable + 1:2 + 1:20 via worm gear?

Ah, yes, you are quite right of course. It did sound a little too simple!

[Timorzelorzworz]

As @Zerobricksmentioned before, there are 2L Pins in yellow hidden in this set and no one is interested in? This means TLG breaks their restriction for strict color coding for something special, maybe upcoming Supercar in yellow or something else that is widely using yellow pins.

[JimDude]

***How rumors start***

Aren't JCBs yellow?

[2GodBDGlory]

18 minutes ago, Timorzelorzworz said:

As @Zerobricksmentioned before, there are 2L Pins in yellow hidden in this set and no one is interested in? This means TLG breaks their restriction for strict color coding for something special, maybe upcoming Supercar in yellow or something else that is widely using yellow pins.

I'm pretty sure it's 2L frictionless pins in yellow, which have already been used in lots of non-Technic sets in yellow. I think he was just pointing out that it was the first time they've put the yellow one in a Technic set

[Timorzelorzworz]

20 minutes ago, 2GodBDGlory said:

I'm pretty sure it's 2L frictionless pins in yellow, which have already been used in lots of non-Technic sets in yellow. I think he was just pointing out that it was the first time they've put the yellow one in a Technic set

I did not know before that 2L pins without friction exists in yellow, I thought they are all grey

[aeh5040]

8 hours ago, R0Sch said:

This is what I mean:
 

Yes, I see what you mean (although I don't know how to interpret it). And of course there is a clear shot of a 16t on the clearer images. Maybe that one is off centre?

I now see that a 20t turning the turntable would not obstruct the support roller, so that indeed seems the most likely.

I guess there is space for gearing hidden lower down in the base? Is that a possibility?

Edited December 7, 2023 by aeh5040

[2GodBDGlory]

58 minutes ago, Timorzelorzworz said:

I did not know before that 2L pins without friction exists in yellow, I thought they are all grey

In Technic sets, yes, but these non-Technic sets here all have it in yellow:
https://www.bricklink.com/catalogItemIn.asp?P=3673&in=S&colorID=3&ov=Y

[Timorzelorzworz]

1 minute ago, 2GodBDGlory said:

In Technic sets, yes, but these non-Technic sets here all have it in yellow:
https://www.bricklink.com/catalogItemIn.asp?P=3673&in=S&colorID=3&ov=Y

Thanks

[allanp]

3 hours ago, JimDude said:

***How rumors start***

Aren't JCBs yellow?

There's also yellow gears in the forage harvester. JCB (specifically a 3CX or 4CX) confirmed!

[R0Sch]

Now this is something truly spectacular:

 

[Davidz90]

45 minutes ago, R0Sch said:

Now this is something truly spectacular:

Thanks for sharing this. I'll definitely try to incorporate moon's precession in my mod of the lego set. 

[R0Sch]

Some new images I found, but sadly not revealing anything new or a better look at the mechanism:

Not even with increased exposure adjustments:

At least we have a confirmation that the rest was accurately re-constructed.

[aeh5040]

38 minutes ago, R0Sch said:

Some new images I found

Cool - thanks for sharing.

There are some tantalising clues in that last one.

The teeth on the lower grey (16t?) gear appear more widely spaced than the black one above it, suggesting that we are looking at the former head-on while seeing the edge of the latter. Don't know whether that helps, but I still think there are probably gears not on the centre line of the handle.

Is it possible that the black gear is another small turntable, not a 36t? Not that this would necessarily help with our difficulties!

Clearly we need to track down the young lady in the photos and bribe her to spill the beans.

Edited December 14, 2023 by aeh5040

[R0Sch]

@aeh5040 Yes, I saw that too. At least we know the large turntable is geared with a 20T gear.

Also, pretty sure there is another 12T? gear under the 16T.

Edited December 14, 2023 by R0Sch

[aeh5040]

Oh yes, well spotted! Although I wonder whether that is a 20t or 36t (or even a turntable again).

It is looking very much as if all the gears are horizontal, so really the task is to connect the 20t that turns the big turntable with the central vertical axle, with the correct spacing and ratio ...

I've kind of got obsessed with this!