Avatar: The Last Airbender

[Aanchir]

I'm personally still looking forward to seeing TLA. I know it's not going to be very good from a story perspective, but the visuals and effects are supposed to be great. Furthermore, I'm hoping very much for a director's cut on DVD, as around 25 minutes of the filmed material had to be cut from the final film by demand of Paramount. And from what I've heard, based on the novelization and other sources, that was when a lot of the character development in the film would have taken place.

I'm not going to start passing the blame around, because unlike some I'm not educated enough in the whole event. I've never seen a Shyamalan film, although I'm assured by a friend that he's a great director, I don't personally own the novelization, I haven't been to a prescreening (much less seen the film), and most of all I don't know what Paramount internal politics are like (nor would most fans).

Needless to say, I trust the critics to some extent, and believe the movie is probably a disappointment for most (even though I tend to be good at appreciating things in spite of their faults, so hopefully I'll still enjoy it). But I have a suspicion that it could never have gotten so far unless there was a point in development when it could have been better. And I'm holding onto the hope that that point was just before the final cut, so that there's a better chance that we fans might eventually get a look at what the movie could have been, and so that perhaps the movie might be remembered better in hindsight.

[Tohst]

Being a huge ATLA- animated fan, I have seen the movie and I have to agree with the critics. This movie was bad.

I'll try to make this spoiler free....

M Night Shyamalan has responded to critics of this movie by saying his art is a language and thats what he knows how to write. Which is valid. His language was great for The Sixth Sense. There was a sense of atmosphere and just plain fear in that movie. His dialogue was stilted, but again, it made sense as the majority of it was supposed to be a semi-formal conversation between a scared kid and his psychiatrist. Unbreakable, it worked. His lead was supposed to be, again, afraid. Afraid of his powers. Afraid of his life. The dialogue was supposed to mirror comic book conventions. That is Shyamalan's language. Fear and reduced affect.

Guess where it doesn't work. Fantasy. Not every character is supposed to be about fear. Not every conversation should be semi-formal exposition. This isn't just pre-LOTR fantasy. This is Willow fantasy. And speaking of George Lucas, it really seems he watched episode 1 and said 'That! That is the movie I want to make!' If he didn't want comparisons, why have dialogue that is almost word for word....delivered in the same semi-formal stiltedness that George got beat up in reviews for.

And that doesn't even take into account the source material. Avatar the cartoon was fun. The characters were frequently scared, frequently heroic, but also frequently fun-loving kids. Yes, even Aang with the weight of the world on his shoulders goes out to ride various big creatures because its fun. No fun was allowed in this movie.

Ignoring the choppy editing (I'm assuming to get in as many Easter Eggs as possible for the fans), ignoring the badly choreographed fight scenes, ignoring the constant telling instead of showing and in the case of exposition telling and telling and telling again, ignoring the change in pronounciation of almost every name, ignoring the casting of Assif Mandvi as a bad guy that I felt was going to end every rant with ', Jon.' (as seen on the Daily Show with Jon Stewart. I've seen him in other things and this is the first time I remember his delivery being exactly the same as what he does on The Daily Show), (and yes, thats ignoring a lot, isn't it?), the movie didn't feel like Avatar.

The fire nation settings that looked less like Iceland and more like England, the lack of background crossbred creatures (such as moose-lions), and the serious lack of fun made this feel like someone missed the spirit of the show.

The rest of the issues just made it a bad movie. And yes, the bending effects were good but not good enough to make up for everything else.

-Tohst.

I could go on. But there be spoilers.

[Aanchir]

I just watched TLA last night, and I enjoyed it. There were differences from the show, of course, but the only one that particularly bugged me was that it went for a generic epic-film soundtrack instead of taking any inspiration from the Asian-inspired soundtrack of the TV show. Even though I swear I heard a Tsungi horn in one of the Zuko scenes...

And this isn't to say the soundtrack was bad, but it wasn't as unique as the TV show's soundtrack. It still had a distinctiveness that makes it a good tune to identify this franchise.

I feel the characterization of the main cast was perfectly on-point. Aang felt just like the TV show version to me, even though there was apparently an effort to have him address some of his angst early-on rather than waiting for books two and three. We didn't get a huge variety of Sokka scenes, but people are indeed expecting some more variety with the deleted scenes on the DVD (despite the revelation that there will not be a "director's cut"). Katara also didn't get all that much attention in this film, but the scenes she did have felt accurate to the character. Even side characters like Ozai and Zhao were executed brilliantly.

I think Shyamalan did a good job with this film, and I look forward to a sequel (the box office results as well as recent interviews with Shyamalan hint that a sequel's still being anticipated in spite of the negative reviews). I'm glad I was able to enjoy this film in spite of others having found it so disappointing.

[Oky]

I highly doubt that after reviews saying "M.N.S. needs to be shot, then hung" that there will be any sequel. And naturally, we can kiss the chance of a reboot of the Lego theme goodbye. It's good that at least some of you were able to enjoy this. I was thinking about watching this, maybe even in 3D, but now I think I'll be better off netflixing it. A shame, really, but I was pretty much expecting this from the start.

And yes, let's hope that this flop doesn't affect ATLOK.

[Zarkan]

I'll add to my previous statement that I have no intention of ever seeing this movie, even thought it's very likely I'll eventually watch the animated series. The reason? I really don't want to subject myself to what apparently is the worst movie this year so far, with not a single bit of talent dripping from any of its scenes. Case in point: if this....

... is what Shyamalan thinks is a cool depiction of the elemental control over earth, then I already know I could make a better action scene that he could. Heck, a 10 year old fan of the show probably could.

[Batbrick]

Is that for real? That is the funniest thing I've seen in ages! 7 Earthbenders working together in a ridiculously choreographed dance to send just ONE rock toward the enemy atan extremely SLOW pace!?

By the by though Grevious, you won't regret watching the cartoon.

Batrick Away!

[Zarkan]

Is that for real? That is the funniest thing I've seen in ages! 7 Earthbenders working together in a ridiculously choreographed dance to send just ONE rock toward the enemy atan extremely SLOW pace!?

By the by though Grevious, you won't regret watching the cartoon.

Oh, it's legit all right - I know because of another forum that I post on occasionally. That possibly has to be one of the lamest usages of elemental control I've ever seen in a movie - not to mention the most hilarious.

Regardless, I'm also sure I will enjoy the series. So far, I've only really seen on person online who doesn't like it, and that person also thinks that the Ralph Bashki Lord of the Rings animated films are better than the live action versions. I'm sure there's more naysayers I haven't met, but for the most part everyone says it is fantastic.

Edited July 9, 2010 by Grevious

[Aanchir]

I'll add to my previous statement that I have no intention of ever seeing this movie, even thought it's very likely I'll eventually watch the animated series. The reason? I really don't want to subject myself to what apparently is the worst movie this year so far, with not a single bit of talent dripping from any of its scenes. Case in point: if this....

... is what Shyamalan thinks is a cool depiction of the elemental control over earth, then I already know I could make a better action scene that he could. Heck, a 10 year old fan of the show probably could.

The choreographed movements are a more complex earthbending form. In other scenes it's made pretty clear that more complex forms (like Aang's tornado at the Northern Water Tribe) take more movements and take longer for their effects to become visible. Meanwhile, that one dude the camera zooms past in the foreground just after you see the rock? Yeah... that's the only guy moving that rock. Take it from someone who just saw the movie for the second time and found the cinematography of that scene brilliant (when not sped up into a sickeningly-poor animated gif).

I encourage you to see the movie. It's actually very good. And please don't say "a 10-year-old fan could do better" about anything or anyone ever again on this site-- it's a tremendous insult, and one that for me is almost unpardonable when applied to a creative work that took genuine time and effort (read: any creative work at all).

[Sandy]

I don't doubt the negative critics, and I probably won't be going to see this movie (mainly because I haven't seen a single episode of ATLA), but I just want to point out that no movies are ever done by a single person (except maybe Brickfilms, heh).

I'm not trying to defend Shyamalan, and I know some of his movies have been atrocious before this, but I sincerely doubt he did the casting, coached the actors, build the settings, designed the coreographies, sowed the dresses and all that by himself. So while it's okay to blame him for directing a lousy movie, it's absurd to blame him as a person for all those things.

But I guess when people talk about Shyamalan they mean the whole production team... At least that's what I hope.

[Batbrick]

I'm not trying to defend Shyamalan, and I know some of his movies have been atrocious before this, but I sincerely doubt he did the casting, coached the actors, build the settings, designed the coreographies, sowed the dresses and all that by himself. So while it's okay to blame him for directing a lousy movie, it's absurd to blame him as a person for all those things.

Actually, Shyamalan did have a huge control over casting, particular over the choices of Aang, Katara and Sokka.

But I do agree with you, and while i have no doubt in my mind at all that this film is awful, from critics, trusted ones, online trusted sources and friends, and do lay a large amount of blame on Shyamalan, I certainly also believe with a similar lack of doubt that there are aspects that the production team has done very well.

I encourage you to see the movie. It's actually very good. And please don't say "a 10-year-old fan could do better" about anything or anyone ever again on this site-- it's a tremendous insult, and one that for me is almost unpardonable when applied to a creative work that took genuine time and effort (read: any creative work at all).

This however I did chuckle at. Not meaning to offend Aanchir, you've offered very good opinions in this thread and I do agree with the statement to an extent, I just found it amusing in its melodrama

Batbrick Away!

[Aanchir]

This however I did chuckle at. Not meaning to offend Aanchir, you've offered very good opinions in this thread and I do agree with the statement to an extent, I just found it amusing in its melodrama

Batbrick Away!

I'm not at all offended. That insult-- "a 10-year-old could have done better"-- is just my berserk button. The melodrama was the only way I could find to let off steam without being particularly rude about it. If I didn't succeed at that, I apologize, but I think I managed OK.

The fact is, any hard-working creative professional puts a lot of time into their work, and that's not even including the years of experience under their belt. To say that a 10-year-old could have done better is essentially to say that those years of experience and months of effort were wasted, which is a very cruel insult.

When a child completes a task, but does it badly, you might criticize what they produced but you give them an "A for effort". And I believe that's not just an example of babying young children-- I feel that no matter how badly somebody does something, their time and effort ought to be respected. You can demean a work, and you can demean the person who put effort into that work, but it's really terrible to demean the effort itself.

The fact that the insult was coming from someone who hadn't even seen the movie, based on a cruddy animated GIF, didn't make it any more appealing. Even though it's not just this movie where that sort of insult sets me off-- in the BIONICLE fan community I would see this insult often, directed at set designers, comic artists, and even Greg Farshtey, the writer of the books and comics. It's usually hyperbole, but it's never in good taste.

-----

Meanwhile, as I said in my last post I just saw the movie a second time last night. A lot of accounts I've read online say that whether you like the movie or not, it's better the second time. I didn't feel that way (I still enjoyed it, but no more than the first time), but that could be because those comments were on a TLA fansite and so users of that site might have spent the second viewing taking in tinier details, whereas I just enjoyed it the same way I had the first time.

Loved the acting and the script. One thing that I applaud is the way the script kept returning to key themes throughout: the Fire Nation's lack of spirituality, Aang's struggle to cope with the loss of his people, etc. It makes the adaptation much smoother, as the TV series tended to have different themes for pretty much every episode (as is normal for a TV series). The emphasis of the story's spiritual aspect is something that Shyamalan clearly intended based on his descriptions in interviews of what attracted him to the franchise.

I could really get used to the new pronunciations of some of the names. "Aang" in particular comes naturally to me, due to my username which is also pronounced with an "ahn" in the beginning (it's just a much more natural pronunciation for a double-A). The only one that is particularly awkward to get used to is the respelling and repronunciation of Agni Kai as "Agni Ki", and it's pretty evident why that one was changed (Agni Kai takes its name from two entirely different languages; the new spelling and pronunciation is almost certainly for the sake of internal consistency).

[Pigbrick]

I finally got to see it and I have to say it was easily the worst film I've seen this year. I don't like saying it since I had some hope for this but I really was bored watching it. The pace was incredible slow, the characters were written flat, the action scenes, at least with the bending, were odd. The gif with the earthbenders, well, that's exactly what I saw in the movie with nothing bending wise coming after it. It was just a bunch of benders "dancing" and then one rock is thrown. Most of the bending is like this, a lot of arm and leg movement and then a simple "splat" of element thrown in at the end. Nothing flowed liked the bending in the cartoon; it was really just tacked on in the movie. But don’t get me wrong, the martial arts were very good but just not the bending. The acting was okay, but I feel it was more the writing that brought down a lot of the characters. And some of the scenery were very disappointing, I'm looking at you spirit world.

If you're an Avatar fan, which I'm betting you are since you're in this topic, just wait and rent it to judge it yourself.

[Emperor Claudius Rome]

You realize in that GIF, all of those guys aren't moving it, that one guy who comes from the corner is moving it.

And, I really thought it was a good film. The dialogue is clunky at times, but the acting and the effects are good.

And the actress who plays Azula at the end is great

Also, this is getting a sequel. It has just been released over sea's, and it's doing really well there. I heard it's the #1 movie in Russia.

[Emperor Claudius Rome]

Rumors are going around that Korra is Sci-Fi. I hope not

[Aanchir]

Rumors are going around that Korra is Sci-Fi. I hope not

I can't really picture them keeping the "The Legend Of" title in place if it were a sci-fi series. With that said, if the series takes place in the future of the Avatar universe, I wouldn't mind ''some'' sci-fi elements as a natural extension of the Fire Nation's semi-sci-fi steampunk technologies. But obviously no crazy space travel or hovercars or anything like that-- it should stay true to Avatar: The Last Airbender's themes of Eastern martial arts, culture, and spirituality.

[Oky]

You realize in that GIF, all of those guys aren't moving it, that one guy who comes from the corner is moving it.

I think that's the point behind all the rant: All those benders are doing that silly dance for nothing.

Also, this is getting a sequel. It has just been released over sea's, and it's doing really well there. I heard it's the #1 movie in Russia.

It was in the top three for a little while here too, but just because a lot of people went to see it doesn't mean they liked it and will watch the sequel.

Rumors are going around that Korra is Sci-Fi. I hope not

Well, it depends on what their definition of "Sci-Fi" is. I wouldn't mind some sci-fi. I mean, think of all the inventions that have been made over the hundred years Aang was frozen. It would only be natural for technology to advance even more in the following hundred years. Besides, it improved the Jak & Daxter series a lot to move the setting into the future. I'm sure they wont be going too far with it.

[Emperor Claudius Rome]

Avatar just doesn't belong in the future. It's the Ancient Chinese influence that helps set it apart from other shows.

And according to the rumor, Korra Involves time travel!

Edited July 18, 2010 by Emperor Claudius Rome

[Aanchir]

Avatar just doesn't belong in the future. It's the Ancient Chinese influence that helps set it apart from other shows.

And according to the rumor, Korra Involves time travel!

"Sci-Fi" doesn't necessarily mean "future". You can include sci-fi elements without turning it into Star Trek. Meanwhile, time travel could be just a consequence of some type of spirit world shenanigans. Not necessarily meaning that there's going to be time machines and teleporters all over the place.

I'd actually kind of like some sci-fi elements. If you read the A:TLA art book, Aang was originally going to have a much more sci-fi looking staff, and Momo was going to be a robot. This was when the character concepts were in place, but it wasn't decided what sort of show they'd be in, but I'm sure sci-fi elements could be worked with even in the A:TLA universe.

[Oky]

And according to the rumor, Korra Involves time travel!

Even better if you ask me! I always love well thought out time travel stories, and considering that ATLA was written about as well as the Harry Potter books (which involved time travel too by the way) I'm sure it could make for a great story! And as Aanchir said, it will probably be some "Avatar stuff" as Sokka would call it, not some H.G.Wells-esque time machine.

[RileyC]

If it is "Sci-Fi" then I hope its like the episode in Book 1 were they go to the northern water tribe and find all people with the gliders. Sort of steam punk style. Time travel may be cool because then they would be able to go back in time and see key events in the avatar world.

[Aanchir]

Sorry for interrupting the Korra discussion with a random movie-related thought, but something that occurred to me a few days ago-- while the casting of the Fire Nation in The Last Airbender may not have been politically correct or culturally correct, it is geographically correct. The Fire Nation is an equatorial nation, and thus having darker skin makes a great deal of sense.

Of course, for some people, loyalty to the source material should have come first, and for others it's the casting of the Water Tribes as white that yields the most unfortunate implications. But this is just a thought I had when considering the issue from a different perspective.

[Emperor Claudius Rome]

I'm sorry for those who wished it was going to be sci-fi, but the rumor is most likely false. Some guy on AvatarSpirit.net got the info from some guy on this Animé forum. It's lie.

[CMP]

I'm sorry for those who wished it was going to be sci-fi, but the rumor is most likely false. Some guy on AvatarSpirit.net got the info from some guy on this Animé forum. It's lie.

I still count it as partially sci-fi in my book. Time has passed since Aang was the Avatar, so I can't imagine what techonology giant drills, flying warships, and tanks goes to.

[Emperor Claudius Rome]

I still count it as partially sci-fi in my book. Time has passed since Aang was the Avatar, so I can't imagine what techonology giant drills, flying warships, and tanks goes to.

But Sci Fi doesn't fit with magic, thats like Middle Earth being invaded by Klingons.

[Aanchir]

But Sci Fi doesn't fit with magic, thats like Middle Earth being invaded by Klingons.

Not at all. You seem to be using a very narrow definition of "sci-fi". Sci-fi doesn't mean space travel and teleports and aliens and all that-- it can even be limited to hypothetical technologies like those already in A:TLA. After all, CallMePie mentions the drill-- which is sci-fi to begin with (unless you can link me to a picture of the real one that's being built in a top-secret underground bunker as we speak). =P