42177 Mercedes G500 4X4

[mobi]

Quote

So, having watched the aforementioned review along with Lego official materials.... comparing to Defender we will be missing  4 speed gearbox, instead we are given  locking central and rear diff locks. Honestly, I think that this is the spec Defender should have had with its smaller(ish) 2-door footprint, there was no real need for the gearbox... This time however, I have a feeling that while Defender was almost overpacked with features), Gwagen might feel be a bit hollow - not much use of the increased 4-door chassis with the actual gearbox removed, and less parts for the B-models... Thoughts?

So how it is different from the Land Rover? There is no gearbox in G500?? 

Edited July 11, 2024 by mobi

[Urbal]

Yep, live axle with a locking diff is placed instead of the gearbox. Actually I always questioned the gearbox location in Defender... So all things considered it might be the right move. The question I have is whether the model delivers a better design-function balance than Defender. I guess we need some quality reviews of a more experienced folks to answer that.

[thekoRngear]

Just now, Urbal said:

Yep, live axle with a locking diff is placed instead of the gearbox. Actually I always questioned the gearbox location in Defender... So all things considered it might be the right move. The question I have is whether the model delivers a better design-function balance than Defender. I guess we need some quality reviews of a more experienced folks to answer that.

Yeah. Also the inital experiences from the builder community (both casual and experienced bears).

One thing is for sure; building it will be challanging (to different extent) for the casual bears 

[gyenesvi]

1 hour ago, Lipko said:

Yes, that's why it's a rubber bushing. But it cannot be a ball joint on both ends, because the longitudinal rotation would not be restricted and would cause extra wear when the socket is in its extremes position in relation to the ball. Sometimes it cannot be avoided to have ball joints on both ends, steering link for example, but that is usually one of the first things that fails in the suspension due to wear.

That's good to know, thanks. I have only seen buggies in detail that are typically not factory built, there they do use ball joints. Anyways, I do think that pins are a bit of an oversimplification and would cause stress or binding on high articulation models. In lower articulation ones like this, it could be okay, but then again, for the educational purpose, using proper links would not have been too difficult. I mean the rear suspension is the only place on this model where something slightly more advanced could have been made, and not even that is pushed too far.

1 hour ago, Zerobricks said:

It depends a lot on what's the high difference of the links. The closer they are, the less sideways movement of the links, but then the axle has less rigid mounting... It's a compromise.

True, but that's why a proper 5-link solution would be nice, as it avoids that compromise.

[mobi]

So LandRover had fewer pieces, cost less and yet had more functions (at least a true gearbox-transmission) than G500. Is this progress? 

McLaren had a true gearbox but costs nearly £400  

[AVCampos]

4 minutes ago, mobi said:

So LandRover [...] cost less

From what I could see, its price, adjusted for inflation, is the same as the G500's.

[nerdsforprez]

21 minutes ago, mobi said:

yet had more functions (at least a true gearbox-transmission) than G500

I think it is just a matter of preferences.  As you can see reading through the comments, many folks prefer locking diffs to a gearbox, especially one that was as poorly designed as the landrover.  

[thekoRngear]

2 hours ago, mobi said:

So LandRover had fewer pieces, cost less and yet had more functions (at least a true gearbox-transmission) than G500. Is this progress? 

McLaren had a true gearbox but costs nearly £400  

By any chance did you ever happen to have a Land Rover Defender? As soon as I discovered there is no 4-speed transmission in MercG I felt something just got off of my chest because that dangerously designed 4-speed gearbox would cause so much pain and frustration among us- the fans. I felt relieved. Had the Defender not that 4-speed gearbox, it would have given so much pleasure and satisfaction. I have two Defenders and I am perfectly happy with a 2-speed Hi-Low gearbox in them. Ha, one thing could have done instead that is implementing the H-shaped 4-speed gearbox (that Sariel designed and later many implemented in MOCs) just under the console where the DNR and Hi/Lo gearbox are located in G500. I am rather interested to see how the diff locks suspension system and body-chassis rigidity work in this upcoming set.

That 4-speed gearbox the Defender had was just a very bold move by the designers from Lego. The chassis was not a perfect fit for it. Scale matters. The 20t and 12t double bevel gears were later replaced by the new 12t and 20t gears by @kbalage to see if it improves the situation. It could not.
Similar gearbox in much compact form factor was later implemented by @gyenesvi in his Jeep Bruiser 42110 MOC and it worked really well in that crawler (minus the u-joints).

Now continue moaning and whining 🙏

Edited July 11, 2024 by thekoRngear

[Ngoc Nguyen]

3 minutes ago, thekoRngear said:

As soon as I discovered there is no 4-speed transmission in MercG I felt something just got off of my chest because that dangerously designed 4-speed gearbox would cause so much pain and frustration among us- the fans. I felt relieved.

Exactly my sentiment towards 42110 and 42177.

[mobi]

Quote

 because that dangerously designed 4-speed gearbox would cause so much pain and frustration among us

So are you imply G500 is better because it has no gearbox at all compared to Landrover which had a poorly designed gearbox?

I still can't find any video of the transmission in YouTube so can't understand how the whole transmission thing works.

Is it correct that engine is linked with wheels via differentials and simply forward/reverse selector and nothing else - I mean only speed reduction is high & low gears?

So G500 has 2-speed gearbox while Landrover had 4x2 speeds?

Yes, I do accept Landrover gearbox was not the best 

 

Edited July 11, 2024 by mobi

[R0Sch]

1 hour ago, mobi said:

So are you imply G500 is better because it has no gearbox at all compared to Landrover which had a poorly designed gearbox?

I still can't find any video of the transmission in YouTube so can't understand how the whole transmission thing works.

Is it correct that engine is linked with wheels via differentials and simply forward/reverse selector and nothing else - I mean only speed reduction is high & low gears?

So G500 has 2-speed gearbox while Landrover had 4x2 speeds?

Yes, I do accept Landrover gearbox was not the best 

 

Maybe this video will answer your questions:

 

[JTS]

The holy trinity of differentials 

[2GodBDGlory]

I look forward to figuring out how all the gearing down there works!

Looks like the 3L driving rings will continue alongside the 2L ones into the future

[Paul B Technic]

I have never been a fan of the land rover gear box, so the fact they have not made the same "mistake" here for me is a good thing.

[SNIPE]

question: the rear axle has two 5L suspension arms and one new suspension arm from set 42172, so what is this 9L link used for? (it's in the bag where you build the rear axle)

I wonder if it's to remotley lock the rear diff, and the photo of him doing it was just a more camera friendly way of presenting the function.

Edited July 12, 2024 by SNIPE

[NV Lego technic]

I think it's a Panhard rod of some kind.

[Timorzelorzworz]

Beside the clean bodywork the model features some nice technical tricks. There are two kinds of differentials for the front axle and the rear axle. Last time this was on the 42156 Peugeot Hypercar, but the rear and the front axles are not connected together there, normally producing different gear output ratios. For this Mercedes G500 there is equal gear ratio required for the front diff and the rear diff, especially when the center diff is locked. The only possible and clever done solution is to connect the newer 28T red diff with 0.5 offset to 20T bevel gear, to match the ratio for the front diff.

Can't wait to build this model to see more cool building techniques and surprises.

[damjan97PL]

13 hours ago, JTS said:

The holy trinity of differentials 

Looks similar to drivetrain in my Bronco

 

[Zerobricks]

31 minutes ago, damjan97PL said:

Looks similar to drivetrain in my Bronco

Or mine in the tow truck

[NV Lego technic]

Well, maybe that's because they're all off road vehicles with 3 diffs and a front independent and rear live axle?

[StudWorks]

Looking forward for the first triple-locker mods.

[Ngoc Nguyen]

How do you even squeeze a diff lock into the front axle tho

[NV Lego technic]

You either shorten the wishbones and use double CV joints or make a dial drive and connect one side to one output if the diff and the other side to the output

[Zerobricks]

25 minutes ago, Ngoc Nguyen said:

How do you even squeeze a diff lock into the front axle tho

Check the MOD topic. Hint, 5 studded double headed CV joints from the Ford GT.

Edited July 12, 2024 by Zerobricks

[rm8]

 

On 7/12/2024 at 4:43 PM, Zerobricks said:

Or mine in the tow truck

 

Or my Land Cruiser...

• 12 years ago 
• the same suspension config,
• rear and middle difflock
• manual 5+R Gearbox.
• the same width of body - 23 stud as G500

My first MOC afte dark times. Still alive and work well on my shelf. Survived Defender, and will survive G500 for sure.

Doc, send me all that new panels back to the past:)