10337 Lamborghini Countach Discussion

[eric_son_of_joseph]

7 hours ago, MR Swordfish said:

This is a bad contribution imo, and I think it comes across condescending. I'm not in need of universal consumer advice.

It's not condescending.  I'm no better than you.  But you made the comment about how LEGO should do things without considering the fact that others actually like the design of this model.  Even Lamborghini approves of it.  You have to understand that this model was not designed specifically for you.

[MR Swordfish]

48 minutes ago, eric_son_of_joseph said:

It's not condescending.  I'm no better than you.  But you made the comment about how LEGO should do things without considering the fact that others actually like the design of this model.  Even Lamborghini approves of it.  You have to understand that this model was not designed specifically for you.

I have no idea why you are so averse to people posting their opinions on the model. I'm aware it wasn't "designed specifically for me", and I can't believe you seriously told me that while trying to defend yourself against being condescending. And me stating my opinions on what looks good (or not) does not mean I did so "without considering the fact that others actually like the design". In fact, I explicitly posted here to learn if other people agree with me or not, and to hear defined alternate perspectives on the model.

What I am not looking for is advice to not buy things I don't like, along with being told the mere concept that other people might enjoy a Lego set, and that it wasn't designed "specifically for me". Despite my profile picture, I'd like you to know I am not actually 5 years old anymore. Please, stop teaching me basic concepts of consumerism. I understand you believe my negative critique of one design element demonstrates ignorance to your wisdom, but it doesn't.

Edited June 15, 2024 by MR Swordfish

[BrickMonkeyMOCs]

1 hour ago, eric_son_of_joseph said:

You should have an idea of what it takes to perform at your level of expectation, though.  Other than the one LEGO designer who frequents this site, no one here has experience designing a mass-produced model.

Actually, I do. But I don't think that is a prerequisite for expressing one's critical opinions of a set here.

1 hour ago, eric_son_of_joseph said:

Other designers have created amazing models of the Countach, much better than anything I've created.  I still feel LEGO has produced the best version.

That's fine, and you're welcome to express that opinion. Just as others should be welcome to express their more critical takes on the set. After all, that's what this thread is for.

On 6/7/2024 at 4:27 AM, Polarlicht said:

This isnt a Psiaki car is it?

Apparently it was designed by Sven Franic, who designed the excellent BTTF Delorean set.

[Sven J]

5 hours ago, eric_son_of_joseph said:

Even Lamborghini approves of it.

Nowadays, companies approve of ANYTHING that gives them profit. A license is no sign of quality... Think of that disastrous McLaren MP4/4, the Corvette or the Aston Martin DB5 - all officially approved.

6 hours ago, eric_son_of_joseph said:

no one here has experience designing a mass-produced model. 

You know who BrickMonkeyMOCs is, don't you?

[danth]

Well I know one thing for sure. I want a big Lego Countach. I just don't know which one.

The official model looks great from the rear. People complain the rear is too fat but I don't know if it could be any slimmer without sacrificing the design of the tail lights. I like it.

The front of course has obvious problems as @zweifuss has objectively demonstrated. I much prefer the Firas MOC overall with the exception of the tail lights and the windshield.

Edited June 17, 2024 by danth

[ukbajadave]

28 minutes ago, danth said:

Well I know one thing for sure. I want a big Lego Countach. I just don't know which one.

This one

[Shiva]

41 minutes ago, ukbajadave said:

This one

That one looks quite nice too. Not perfect, but nice.

[Polo-Freak]

Quote

Well I know one thing for sure. I want a big Lego Countach. 

This one ? 

[eric_son_of_joseph]

On 6/15/2024 at 1:19 AM, BrickMonkeyMOCs said:

Actually, I do. But I don't think that is a prerequisite for expressing one's critical opinions of a set here.

If you're a current or former designer at LEGO, then I apologize for my ignorance.  My posts on this topic are the result of exhaustion from ubiquitous fault-finding by a small number of users in the adult LEGO community.  Calling this a poorly designed set.  Saying it looks horrible.  Expecting a scale model replica instead of a LEGO interpretation intended to reach a large audience consisting of both new and experienced builders.  It wouldn't be as bad if critical comments went something like, "The official model is too far out of proportion for my liking.  I'm going to see what I can do to make it more accurate."  But those types of comments are few and far between.

I can improve my contribution to the community by avoiding/overlooking negative comments.  That's probably the easiest solution

[danth]

8 hours ago, Polo-Freak said:

This one ? 

Actually I like those Technic ones!

[Polarlicht]

On 6/15/2024 at 7:19 AM, BrickMonkeyMOCs said:

Apparently it was designed by Sven Franic, who designed the excellent BTTF Delorean set.

When was the last time Psiaki made a car? Feels like he made a lot couple of years ago and now none anymore 🤔

[BrickMonkeyMOCs]

5 hours ago, eric_son_of_joseph said:

If you're a current or former designer at LEGO, then I apologize for my ignorance.  My posts on this topic are the result of exhaustion from ubiquitous fault-finding by a small number of users in the adult LEGO community.  Calling this a poorly designed set.  Saying it looks horrible.  Expecting a scale model replica instead of a LEGO interpretation intended to reach a large audience consisting of both new and experienced builders.  It wouldn't be as bad if critical comments went something like, "The official model is too far out of proportion for my liking.  I'm going to see what I can do to make it more accurate."  But those types of comments are few and far between.

I can improve my contribution to the community by avoiding/overlooking negative comments.  That's probably the easiest solution

One doesn't need to be a designer to critique sets, anymore than they need to be a film director to critique movies or a chef to criticize bad food. People have every right to call something poorly designed or horrible if that is how they feel, and no-one is demanding scale-model perfection - we just don't think this one captures the real car proportions as well as previous entries in the product line-up (or other MOC versions). I don't think it is a very healthy approach to be exhausted or stressed out by the negative opinions of others regarding something you like, and you shouldn't have to ignore or avoid critical comments. You can read and understand them, and still either disagree with those opinions, or accept their points while liking the model anyway. Just as you could point out the many well-designed aspects of the set, while we can acknowledge them without finding them sufficient to offset the issues that have been pointed out. I for one really like those new rims - it is great to get a second hollow-rim design for better steering.

[Leewan]

The debate is interesting. Ultimately one's opinion of the set seems to depend on which aspect of a model one deems to be the most important. On which aspect would you make compromises ? Stability ? Accuracy ? Functions ? It's Lego, you can't have it all, the medium has its limits.

Even if it's not the most accurate, I'll gladly buy the set, because from what I could read from the reviews it will provide a good builiding experience, which is something I care a lot about. Lego is a construction toy, so I don't think the way a model is built should be neglected. If I wanted perfect accuracy I'd buy a scale model. You could say it's not all about the destination, it's also about the journey.

I have built Firas' MOC, and while the model looks great (especially for an alternate model), the build was very frustrating and I almost gave up at times. Plus the doors and hood cover didn't stay open due to a lack of friction. In that aspect the set is better. I prefer a model that's well-made over a model that simply looks good.

[Lyichir]

For anyone who's interested New Elementary's review includes an interview with the designer that goes into some aspects like the color choice: https://www.newelementary.com/2024/06/lego-icons-10337-lamborghini-countach.html

[bruh]

On 6/16/2024 at 1:42 PM, danth said:

Actually I like those Technic ones!

Which ones? I'm assuming you mean the smaller ones, right? Those are cool, I would like to see a larger version in the future. 

[Polo-Freak]

Yes. Let's build this Thing 

For me as a big Countach Fan, absolutely Must have !

[KevinMD]

Reading the NE review and seeing the photoshop in red, I now wish this set had stickers instead of prints. 

[eric_son_of_joseph]

On 6/16/2024 at 6:30 PM, BrickMonkeyMOCs said:

People have every right to call something poorly designed or horrible if that is how they feel

Many times comments such as these are based on personal feelings instead of facts.  When viewing the set objectively, it's clearly well designed.  The model is sturdy, provides a good building experience, and closely resembles the real world car in LEGO form.

[BrickMonkeyMOCs]

1 hour ago, eric_son_of_joseph said:

Many times comments such as these are based on personal feelings instead of facts.  When viewing the set objectively, it's clearly well designed.  The model is sturdy, provides a good building experience, and closely resembles the real world car in LEGO form.

As the posted slider-tool comparison shows, there are objective facts concerning the ways in which this model does not closely resemble the real car, especially from a side profile. It's not good form to assume your own positive opinion must be objective while those who disagree must be arguing from personal feelings, as the reverse could just as well be true. Again, the set has significant strengths and weaknesses, and we can discuss and recognize the objective aspects of these while differing on how much they subjectively affect our overall evaluation. It's not going to be constructive to tell those with negative views that they're not being objective. A far better approach is to highlight the objectively good details of the design that, for you, more than make up for its flaws. Tell people that you like the clean seam of the doors and their smooth operation, and even those disappointed with the model can agree. But tell them that they're being emotional rather than objective in their assessment then your comments aren't going to be well received.

Edited June 19, 2024 by BrickMonkeyMOCs

[brickphisto]

Very well said @BrickMonkeyMOCs. The side profile, the transition from hood to windscreen and the fenders kill the look for me. On the other hand the overall design seems very clean with minimal gaps and apparently some great building techniques. The building experience must be great. It is a shame the price is that high. Considering the flaws discussed here and the price tag I will not get my hands on the model.

[eric_son_of_joseph]

16 hours ago, BrickMonkeyMOCs said:

As the posted slider-tool comparison shows, there are objective facts concerning the ways in which this model does not closely resemble the real car, especially from a side profile.

Resemble does not mean identical.  Every Creator Expert/Icons vehicle will have inaccuracies when compared to the real-world vehicle, but each possesses a resemblance.  In this case, you know it's a Countach.

I enjoy these large scale vehicles and am glad LEGO produces them.  I understand compromises must be made due to various circumstances beyond the design team's control. 

[BrickMonkeyMOCs]

2 hours ago, eric_son_of_joseph said:

Resemble does not mean identical.  Every Creator Expert/Icons vehicle will have inaccuracies when compared to the real-world vehicle, but each possesses a resemblance.  In this case, you know it's a Countach.

I enjoy these large scale vehicles and am glad LEGO produces them.  I understand compromises must be made due to various circumstances beyond the design team's control. 

Again, no-one's asking for perfection. It's just that this model doesn't achieve the same degree of proportional accuracy that previous entries in the product line have achieved. Based on the high standards set by their own previous products, the price here has gone up and the accuracy has gone down. At these premium prices it's not unreasonable to expect more than a 'resemblance' and the ability to recognize what car it is supposed to be. I don't think the compromises made here were at all beyond the design team's control. If you are still happy with it then that's fine, but there's no need to make excuses for them.

[eric_son_of_joseph]

2 hours ago, BrickMonkeyMOCs said:

I don't think the compromises made here were at all beyond the design team's control.

Former designer James May has been providing insight on the design process of a LEGO set.  He talks about how models are scrutinized throughout the design process, and how there are many talented designers at LEGO.  If someone gets stuck on something, there's a good chance someone else in the building will have a solution.  That being said, help me understand why inaccuracies in the model could have been avoided.  Why were they not identified and addressed by some of the best LEGO designers in the world?

2 hours ago, BrickMonkeyMOCs said:

If you are still happy with it then that's fine, but there's no need to make excuses for them.

There's no need for excuses because LEGO has produced a solid set.  It won't appeal to everyone, obviously, but that doesn't make it a bad/poorly designed/horrible set.  It just means that some people don't like it.

[BrickMonkeyMOCs]

9 minutes ago, eric_son_of_joseph said:

Former designer James May has been providing insight on the design process of a LEGO set.  He talks about how models are scrutinized throughout the design process, and how there are many talented designers at LEGO.  If someone gets stuck on something, there's a good chance someone else in the building will have a solution.  That being said, help me understand why inaccuracies in the model could have been avoided.  Why were they not identified and addressed by some of the best LEGO designers in the world?

The Lego design team and their oversight process are good, but they are not infallible. You'd have to be a diehard Lego fanboy to not recognize that they sometimes get things wrong. The objective flaws with this set already identified - hood/windscreen transition, taillight size, steering wheel position, etc. - are all things that could have been avoided, as proven by the existence of MOC versions that do avoid these flaws. Then there are also other more subjective factors, such as the color choice and cost, which are also entirely within the control of TLG.

9 minutes ago, eric_son_of_joseph said:

There's no need for excuses because LEGO has produced a solid set.  It won't appeal to everyone, obviously, but that doesn't make it a bad/poorly designed/horrible set.  It just means that some people don't like it.

Cf. "There's no need for praise, because LEGO have produced a weak set. It will still appeal to some, obviously, but that doesn't make it a well-designed set. It just means some fans still like it", i.e. the above expresses a subjective opinion only.

[danth]

I was having fun in this thread hearing people's opinions about this set.

Now it's basically dominated by @eric_son_of_joseph trying to police everyone's opinions.