10337 Lamborghini Countach Discussion

[eric_son_of_joseph]

24 minutes ago, danth said:

I was having fun in this thread hearing people's opinions about this set.

Now it's basically dominated by @eric_son_of_joseph trying to police everyone's opinions

This you?

https://www.eurobricks.com/forum/index.php?/forums/topic/196872-does-eurobricks-need-a-no-opinion-police-rule/&tab=comments#comment-3662611

" I want people to disagree with me. If I like something, I want them to tell me why it sucks. If I hate something, I want them to tell me why it's good"

Edited June 20, 2024 by eric_son_of_joseph
link

[danth]

2 minutes ago, eric_son_of_joseph said:

This you?

https://www.eurobricks.com/forum/index.php?/forums/topic/196872-does-eurobricks-need-a-no-opinion-police-rule/&tab=comments#comment-3662611

" I want people to disagree with me. If I like something, I want them to tell me why it sucks. If I hate something, I want them to tell me why it's good"

You haven't disagreed with anyone. You've just told them that their opinions are invalid. You've given opinions on other people's opinions. Not on the set.

Tells us what you like about the Countach. Tell us why it's good. Not just a guess that the build experience will be good, since you haven't built it and can't possibly know. Tell us what you think of what it looks like, which is all we know so far.

If you're going to come into a thread where multiple people agree on the critcisms of a set, and tell them they have no right to criticize, you damn well better have an itemized list of what you like about the set, all the things that the set NAILS, every way it puts other MOCs to shame. You haven't even attempted to do that.

Edited June 20, 2024 by danth

[eric_son_of_joseph]

12 hours ago, BrickMonkeyMOCs said:

You'd have to be a diehard Lego fanboy to not recognize that they sometimes get things wrong.

When did I say they always come up with the best solutions and never make mistakes?   The degradation of someone's hard work without providing solutions to faults noted is what led me to comment in this thread.

12 hours ago, BrickMonkeyMOCs said:

...are all things that could have been avoided, as proven by the existence of MOC versions that do avoid these flaws

And I look forward to seeing fans' solutions to problems some people have with this set.  I'm sure there will eventually be a "10337 - Countach Mods and Improvements" thread.  But the official LEGO model and someone's MOC are two separate things.  The MOC may have more accurate proportions, but it may also be more fragile and frustrating to build.  Focusing solely on proportions would not provide a thorough comparison.

[eric_son_of_joseph]

27 minutes ago, danth said:

If you're going to come into a thread where multiple people agree on the critcisms of a set, and tell them they have no right to criticize, you damn well better have an itemized list of what you like about the set, all the things that the set NAILS, every way it puts other MOCs to shame. You haven't even attempted to do that.

What I like and dislike are my personal preferences.  I would not criticize the work of another because of a subjective opinion. 

Again, people may dislike how LEGO chose to represent the vehicle, but that doesn't make it a bad set.  I've said that the model appears to be well designed and closely resembles the actual vehicle.  The New Elementary review shared by @Lyichir, as well as others I've viewed online, seem to confirm these points.

[danth]

3 hours ago, eric_son_of_joseph said:

What I like and dislike are my personal preferences.  I would not criticize the work of another because of a subjective opinion. 

Again, people may dislike how LEGO chose to represent the vehicle, but that doesn't make it a bad set.  I've said that the model appears to be well designed and closely resembles the actual vehicle.  The New Elementary review shared by @Lyichir, as well as others I've viewed online, seem to confirm these points.

Wow, you don't even want to share your own opinions on the set? Sounds like you have no reason to be here then.

Maybe you should go start a thread on ethics in Lego set criticism since that seems to be what you care about instead of spamming this thread with it. This thread is about the Countach set.

Anyway, I'm tempted to snag the Porsche 911 (since it's still available in B&M stores near me) and build the Firas MOC. And try to buy the tail light & windshield parts for the official Countach set somehow and integrate them.

I'm not above buying the official Countach too, but hopefully someone will figure out a mod to get the windshield flush with the hood first. That's the main dealbreaker for me.

Edited June 20, 2024 by danth

[danth]

On 6/18/2024 at 12:24 PM, KevinMD said:

Reading the NE review and seeing the photoshop in red, I now wish this set had stickers instead of prints. 

Wouldn't they be white stickers anyway? Not sure it would be feasible to cut them out either other than maybe the main Lamborghini logo.

[BrickMonkeyMOCs]

6 hours ago, eric_son_of_joseph said:

When did I say they always come up with the best solutions and never make mistakes?   The degradation of someone's hard work without providing solutions to faults noted is what led me to comment in this thread.

And I look forward to seeing fans' solutions to problems some people have with this set.  I'm sure there will eventually be a "10337 - Countach Mods and Improvements" thread.  But the official LEGO model and someone's MOC are two separate things.  The MOC may have more accurate proportions, but it may also be more fragile and frustrating to build.  Focusing solely on proportions would not provide a thorough comparison.

Lego designers don't need you to protect their feelings. This thread is for critical discussion of the Countach set, and no-one has to provide solutions in order to point out the set's flaws. That said, some of the solutions are obvious and implicit in the criticism given - i.e. move the windscreen forward to be in-line with the hood slope, make the tail-lights smaller and lower the back end, and position the steering wheel higher. An issue though is that these seem to be fundamental aspects of the early design process, such that fixing them won't be easy and will likely require a massive redesign. The two superior MOC versions I've been highlighting are not fragile, so the poor proportions of the set are not the result of requiring a strong and enjoyable build. You're speculating there and once more making excuses for why the official set is less accurate than it should be. Again, instead of trying to police the criticism of others, you'd be better off highlighting and discussing the specific positive points you like about the set.

5 hours ago, danth said:

Anyway, I'm tempted to snag the Porsche 911 (since it's still available in B&M stores near me) and build the Firas MOC. And try to buy the tail light & windshield parts for the official Countach set somehow and integrate them.

I can recommend that. It's an excellent build, and makes a good base for further customization to overcome the limitations of building from just the Porsche parts. Mine now has a custom engine, engine cover, and spoiler to better match the classic early Countach this set is going for, along with several minor cosmetic tweaks. A trapezoidal windscreen is easy to fit in place of the rectangular Porsche one, but I think you'll find the new set's tail-light assembly too big to fit.

[eric_son_of_joseph]

2 hours ago, BrickMonkeyMOCs said:

This thread is for critical discussion of the Countach set, and no-one has to provide solutions in order to point out the set's flaws.

Criticism without solution is not a critical discussion.  It's non-constructive.  There is no forward progress.

2 hours ago, BrickMonkeyMOCs said:

That said, some of the solutions are obvious and implicit in the criticism given - i.e. move the windscreen forward to be in-line with the hood slope, make the tail-lights smaller and lower the back end, and position the steering wheel higher.

Have you considered why flaws you've pointed are in the final model?  Is it conceivable they're present on purpose?

3 hours ago, BrickMonkeyMOCs said:

he two superior MOC versions I've been highlighting are not fragile, so the poor proportions of the set are not the result of requiring a strong and enjoyable build. You're speculating there and once more making excuses for why the official set is less accurate than it should be.

I said the MOC may be more fragile.  If I was speculating, I would have said, "MOCs I've built in the past have all been fragile, so the MOC you're highlighting is probably fragile as well."

I'm not making excuses or policing opinions, but rather, having a discussion with you and others.  I  question claims you've made because they don't hold up when viewed objectively.  I'll take your word that you don't like the model, but you have no evidence to prove the glaring oversight you've accused LEGO of committing.

[BrickMonkeyMOCs]

55 minutes ago, eric_son_of_joseph said:

Criticism without solution is not a critical discussion.  It's non-constructive.  There is no forward progress.

It would be good to provide solutions in addition to finding flaws, but that is not a requirement for critical discussion.

55 minutes ago, eric_son_of_joseph said:

Have you considered why flaws you've pointed are in the final model?  Is it conceivable they're present on purpose?

Yes, I can speculate as to how the proportions ended up as they are. But no-one designs a model out of proportion on purpose. They are likely the result of design decisions taken early on that became too difficult to correct once the model progressed. The poor proportions are clearly compromises, but they are not necessary ones as better models prove.

55 minutes ago, eric_son_of_joseph said:

I said the MOC may be more fragile.  If I was speculating, I would have said, "MOCs I've built in the past have all been fragile, so the MOC you're highlighting is probably fragile as well."

Saying "may" is speculation, because you don't know. As it happens, there are better Countach MOCs that are not fragile and which do get the proportions correct.

55 minutes ago, eric_son_of_joseph said:

I'm not making excuses or policing opinions, but rather, having a discussion with you and others.  I  question claims you've made because they don't hold up when viewed objectively.  I'll take your word that you don't like the model, but you have no evidence to prove the glaring oversight you've accused LEGO of committing.

What claim have I made that doesn't hold up? The evidence of the incorrect proportions is proven objectively by the slide-tool posted earlier. I'm here to discuss the set, but you're not doing that.

Edited June 21, 2024 by BrickMonkeyMOCs

[Sven J]

Sorry, guys, but don't you get tired fighting the same fight over and over again?
About the Countach, all and everything has already been said, and has been said multiple times. Go and discover the rest of this forum...

[Stereo]

Taillights look better to me on the official model than any MOCs I've seen, opinions on that may vary of course.  Smoother, less gaps, more accurate to the colours & shapes.  An alt build is impressive to represent lights at all, of course, but I wouldn't say they look better than in the set...

[KevinMD]

On 6/20/2024 at 3:07 PM, danth said:

Wouldn't they be white stickers anyway? Not sure it would be feasible to cut them out either other than maybe the main Lamborghini logo.

Good point. In my mind I was thinking more like model stickers on clear backing but you’re right lego so rarely does that they would be white most likely. If I get to the point of considering it I doubt a lack of badging will be the nail. Part availability in red will be.

[RustyLego]

On 6/19/2024 at 8:33 AM, brickphisto said:

Very well said @BrickMonkeyMOCs. The side profile, the transition from hood to windscreen and the fenders kill the look for me. On the other hand the overall design seems very clean with minimal gaps and apparently some great building techniques. The building experience must be great. It is a shame the price is that high. Considering the flaws discussed here and the price tag I will not get my hands on the model.

I agree, it looks like a fun build, but it won't appeal to everyone, whether because of the price tag, or due to some design choices. 

Edited June 22, 2024 by RustyLego

[danth]

On 6/20/2024 at 4:37 PM, BrickMonkeyMOCs said:

I can recommend that. It's an excellent build, and makes a good base for further customization to overcome the limitations of building from just the Porsche parts. Mine now has a custom engine, engine cover, and spoiler to better match the classic early Countach this set is going for, along with several minor cosmetic tweaks. A trapezoidal windscreen is easy to fit in place of the rectangular Porsche one, but I think you'll find the new set's tail-light assembly too big to fit.

Thanks! I just bought it! I definitely want to replace the windscreen. Any thoughts on how to integrate a more accurate set of tail lights? If not the big ones from the official build, something slimmer?

17 hours ago, Stereo said:

Taillights look better to me on the official model than any MOCs I've seen, opinions on that may vary of course.  Smoother, less gaps, more accurate to the colours & shapes.

Agreed. Everyone is saying they're too fat, which maybe they are, but the look nice anyway IMO.

[danth]

This is the only good attempt I've seen at the tail lights from a MOC. They look a bit slimmer than the official set's tail lights too.

https://rebrickable.com/mocs/MOC-133279/Rastacoco/lamborghini-countach-lp5000s-qv-redesigned/#details

[BrickMonkeyMOCs]

Here's a great comparison video from RacingBrick.

I'll repeat here what I posted on the video, which is that I think Firas' MOC is off in small ways that can easily be modified (rear wing, engine cover, windscreen, etc), while the new official set is off in fundamental ways that will be very hard to modify and which affect the defining lines of the vehicle (staggered hood-to-windshield line, height and bulk of the rear end, etc). I think the MOC being a bit smaller also scales better with the Porsche and other cars in the line.

On 6/23/2024 at 7:58 AM, danth said:

Any thoughts on how to integrate a more accurate set of tail lights? If not the big ones from the official build, something slimmer?

I haven't modified the tail-lights on mine from Firas' design, but perhaps I should. I agree that Rastacoco's solution looks very good.

[zweifuss]

I didn't really mean to be overly critical of the set, I know the designer worked on this for a year. Thanks for sharing that Racing Brick video, I love his reviews. And yes, I don't have a solution to fix the proportions, I admit it, but I know someone will be able to come up with something nice and then I'm all in on this set, or at least some of the parts. Thanks for the interesting discussion!