Free vs Paid Instructions for MOCs

[Timorzelorzworz]

For all fans looking for discount on instructions, a ten-day 30% off-period has been started now:

https://rebrickable.com/users/timtimgo/mocs/

[Kostq]

To ressurect the topic further:

The COVID boost and hype-train is gone in RB.
For small Technic B-model MOCs making any sales in last two years for Premium instructions is a joke and a hassle.
Competing with 20+ free alternates even if you have "quality" - people will just skip anything that's premium.
The comments on my 42148 C model mini version of 42065 were almost hostile - "it doesn't have any functions, why are you charging money at all???"
There's some magical feature-per-dollar stat that I'm unaware of, apparently.

I've made about 4 sales each on my 2024 designs that legit took me two days of physical design/3d build/shoot/make YT video/self-promote.
I can't say they are masterpieces either compared to the stuff other people have put out and FOR FREE.
At some point I start to get why people just publish the 3d files and abandon them there - time-wise and sanity wise - it's more efficient.

So far I've done 4.5 years on-and-off moc-ing and releasing mocs - including borrowing ideas from both TLG and fellow MOCers. All were credited in some way or form.
Financially for that period - I've managed to earn one whole monthly salary from MOCs. 1/54th of the money I earned IRL outside of Lego related stuff.

For the big MOCs - I find the people releasing them for free to be astonishingly generous.
About the paid instructions and big MOCs argument - time is money. You can't reverse engineer those in a quick manner from the promo photos.

I've tried reverse engineering the 42098 Scania to create one from 42112 - it was cheaper time-wise to just buy the instructions and see all the guts.
3 days versus several minutes is just miles apart...

Studio had some good patches feature-wise but surely not better overall.
The older versions caused me to have 50+ versions of save files for all of my mocs as you didn't know when it'll crash and which changes WERE saved.
Having a workaround versioning system saved me from trowing away my pc at times.

According to my sales - the good months are January, February, May and October/November. Outside of those - the best days for sales are the weekend ones.
Marketing wise - RB designer plan did give me 10% more exposure in 2020 and about one sale more. I don't recall seeing my mocs on their IG profile at all.
If you're just starting out - stick to the free plan.

And the topic of pricing is not developed in this discussion too - some countries have taxes, PayPal/stripe take their cut and RB takes their cut too.
RB had some ways to take their cut if they redirect you to your site too. But you still owe money to the payment processors...
So getting anything to trickle down to you - you feed A LOT of people in the process and it makes the instructions more expensive by default.

TL;dr - paid instructions for small MOCs aren't viable for earning money, paid ones for big MOCs is ok by me.

Edited November 22, 2024 by Kostq

[Danil]

before it was leg godt, now tjene gode penge. money has defiled everything... this world needs a total reboot, unfortunately...☹️

[mdemerchant]

On 11/22/2024 at 6:47 AM, Kostq said:

And the topic of pricing is not developed in this discussion too - some countries have taxes, PayPal/stripe take their cut and RB takes their cut too.
RB had some ways to take their cut if they redirect you to your site too. But you still owe money to the payment processors...

This is an interesting point.  What is the actual mechanism by which you get paid through Rebrickable?  I have only posted a couple of MOCs for free so I never really thought about it.  But I always assumed money would get directed to you minus some sorts of fees from RB and whoever else may be involved in handling the payment so you collect less per sale than the listed sale price.  But your comment kind of implies you have some fixed overhead cost just from being setup to sell MOCs.  If you run you own website I get it but does RB work that way?

[M_longer]

On 11/22/2024 at 12:47 PM, Kostq said:

I've made about 4 sales each on my 2024 designs that legit took me two days of physical design/3d build/shoot/make YT video/self-promote.

Wanna talk about it? :)
Two and half month after premiere, two weeks of work, a lot off effort put into designing this. 18 sold.

42175 barely paid itself,and I thought that it will be selling much better as 42078 Snow Plow.

My perspective -  I'm getting +/- half money I was getting in 2023. Instructions market changed trough 2020-2024. There's A LOT of quick money grabs at Rebrickable lately, most of these people do not even bother to make pictures of real model built, test instructions and such, because it's just easier to release several small models and wait for potential errors pointed by customers to fix. I just could not force myself to make model after model, just to hope that it will sell. I tried to keep some higher level of model design, instructions and whole presentation. It might provide higher income, but I'd burn out in few months and do not wanted to play with LEGO anymore.

And that's the reason why I'm going back to work as an electrician, golden era of living from instructions ended for me. Nice time, but it's not worth the grey hairs anymore and steady income is better than living the dream ;)

Edited November 23, 2024 by M_longer

[Timorzelorzworz]

3 minutes ago, M_longer said:

It moght be a higher income, but I'd burn out in few months and do not wanted to play with LEGO anymore.

Same. We talked about it :)

Alt from McLaren P1 will be the very last one and then its over.

[msk6003]

It seems difficult to get even a single sale except as an alternative to the existing model.

That is every my premium MOC which designed in 2024. Studless 8480's A model got 7 and B model got 2. But studless 8479 got nothing.

[mdemerchant]

Wow, all of the examples all of you gave are very reasonably priced and so few takers.  @M_longer, your Volvo is a great model and it got plenty of views, around 4500.  I'm shocked it has so few purchases.  I have only a couple of free MOCs posted and they both have thousands of downloads, one has nearly 14000.  Around half the people that view them download them, versus less than 0.5% for the Volvo.  I was quite sure that having a price versus free will obviously greatly reduce the number of people who get the model but I never would have imagined it could be by 100x and for one of the most popular MOCers on Rebrickable.  I wonder what happens if you just charge some nominal amount like 1 euro.  Maybe there's a magic price point that can drive volume, even though it seems unreasonably low given the quality/complexity of the MOC.

[Aurorasaurus]

41 minutes ago, mdemerchant said:

I wonder what happens if you just charge some nominal amount like 1 euro.  Maybe there's a magic price point that can drive volume, even though it seems unreasonably low given the quality/complexity of the MOC. 

I think that price point that drives volume is... free. The friction of making a purchase for just a dollar vs finding a free MOC probably doesnt work out in the paid MOC's favor, which is why we're seeing the numbers we are.

[Bartybum]

On 9/16/2024 at 6:18 PM, johnnytifosi said:

Personally, I dislike paid MOCs on principle. Lego is still a hobby and it should offer joy. But unlike other communities where information is shared freely, everything about Lego nowadays seems to have been encompassed by greed, be it reselling, scalping, "investing", selling instructions, and TLG's own policies of offering less and charging more every year. Of course I am not going to preach to anyone how to share their work, but at least I set my own example and offer any MOCs I do for free, simply because it will offer me joy once in a while if somebody posts a photo of the build and a "thank you comment".

I think I identify with this opinion the most. I wish people didn't charge money for instructions, but hell it's not my place to tell people what to do.

[Gumalca]

15 hours ago, M_longer said:

Two and half month after premiere, two weeks of work, a lot off effort put into designing this. 18 sold.

This is not a fair evaluation. The set is only out for a few months, most people didn't have a chance to buy it. I only got my copy a week ago.

I'm sure most of your sales for this moc are still coming. And all it will take you from now on is waiting, your work is done. Let's talk about this moc in 2 years again.

I might even buy this moc myself, I've already bought multiple from you in the past.

15 hours ago, M_longer said:

A LOT of quick money grabs at Rebrickable lately, most of these people do not even bother to make pictures of real model built, test instructions and such, because it's just easier to release several small models and wait for potential errors pointed by customers to fix

And do you think these models are selling? They sell a few, then negative customer feedback comes in, and that's it.

Just look at the experience from kostq above. A lot of his Mocs are what you would call "money grabs". He doesn't care about quality. Multiple of his Premium MOCs even have "illegal" in the name, because of illegal building techniques that stress parts. What's Premium about that? But customers know how to treat those designers. I wouldn't buy from him.

[Timorzelorzworz]

Thats my bestseller measured over 4 years. The 1:8's are very close to this in shorter time, but there are still MOCs (especially the newer ones) performing very bad. Its strange what people really like and want. 

 

 

[Gumalca]

29 minutes ago, Timorzelorzworz said:

Its strange what people really like and want.

I guess that's true. Many designers will only make one alternate for a big set. And then the outcome depends very much on whether people like the type of vehicle.

I've also bought multiple of your Mocs, but for example I'm not sure I'm going to buy your 42175 camper. The subject just doesn't interest me that much.

[Timorzelorzworz]

8 minutes ago, Gumalca said:

I've also bought multiple of your Mocs

Thank you very much for your support

[msk6003]

All-time selling record

Selling record of recent 30 days

22 minutes ago, Gumalca said:

I guess that's true. Many designers will only make one alternate for a big set. And then the outcome depends very much on whether people like the type of vehicle.

I've also bought multiple of your Mocs, but for example I'm not sure I'm going to buy your 42175 camper. The subject just doesn't interest me that much.

I usually built 3 alternative of each sets and most of that didn't get even 50 sell. As you can see in picture up there, 90 sell of TG offroad truck is my best and even that score is helped by RB's review of TG rallycar set.

My MOC highlighted with red square.

TG offroad truck(3.5$) - 90 sell

Speed demon(world first alter of 42109, 3$) - 43 sell

F1(4$) - 3 sell

Dune buggy - free MOC

Trophy truck(4.5$) - 36 sell

Motorcycle with sidecar(5$) - 32 sell

Roadroller(6$) - 40 sell

Forklift(6$) - 43 sell

Racing truck(5$) - 37 sell

Siege tank(6$) - 52 sell

Tracky(5$) - 16 sell

AMG G63 6x6(6$) - 21 sell

 

And I can count on one hand the number of reviews I've seen of my MOCs on Facebook, Eurobrick, Reddit and other communities.

Edited November 24, 2024 by msk6003

[Gumalca]

30 minutes ago, msk6003 said:

All-time selling record

Thanks for giving such a honest insight.

 

31 minutes ago, msk6003 said:

And I can count on one hand the number of reviews I've seen of my MOCs on Facebook, Eurobrick, Reddit and other communities. 

This just shows how tough competition is. Look at those 42114 alternates. M_longer's moc on first place has fan photos from 28 different buyers if I counted that right. Your Moc on 9th place has one. Now if we put these numbers into relation, then we can estimate that M_longer has probably 28 times your sales too. And yet he's complaining, lol.

My personal advice to you would be to look more into medium sized sets. Considering big sets like 42114 it's not just about best price. People who decide to buy and build an alternate are also investing a lot of time. So many will only ever build one and choose from the top ones.

For medium sized sets people are much more likely to buy multiple alternates in a row, which increases your chance of a sale if you're not one of the top Mocs. 42109 is probably an outlier here, because it never attracted much attention from the alternate community.

[nerdsforprez]

8 hours ago, Bartybum said:

ersonally, I dislike paid MOCs on principle. Lego is still a hobby and it should offer joy.

I don't see how paying for something precludes the payee obtaining joy.  This is a flaw with modern consumerism, and doesn't reflect the reality for all people.  

I enjoy paying for goods and services that carry good value.  I enjoy paying a good tip at a good restaurant that I received good service.  I recently made a purchase at our farmer's market this morning.  I enjoyed giving the couple my money for the wonderful food they grow.  

I am interested in mutually beneficial things. I gain by the goods/services others provide, and they benefit from the money I give them.  Mutual.  Reciprocal. 

Obtaining stuff free is a flawed and even pathological social relationship.  Even if initially enjoyed, eventually it will burn out.  I am not sure why so many people cling to it.  

If one's joy is dependent on obtaining something while the other party receives nothing I recommend examining this relationship 

[kevin8]

Personally, I see Lego as an expensive hobby where Lego itself makes a lot of money on enthusiasts with increasingly expensive, detailed and bulky sets on one hand and increasingly expensive, small and <insert that tiresome argument> sets on the other.

I don't know if it's just my impression, but the medium-small sets are becoming more and more of a disappointment, especially when talking about Star Wars.

That said, I also make several MOCs and sell the instructions, but this activity is simply part of the hobby, I would never dream of making a living from it, also because, let's be honest, if tomorrow Lego decided that selling instructions damages its image or creates economic issue, it could close any alternative market and force people to use only Ideas, for example.

For this reason, yes, I agree to sell your own instructions because there is often months of work behind them, at least as far as I'm concerned, and I don't understand those who would always want them for free. Let me be clear, I thank those who put their work to be downloaded for free, but I have purchased several Moc instructions and when I built them they often gave me the same joy I felt when buying a Lego set. If I really have to be honest though, I would like those who decide to sell, to put more effort into creating the model and instructions, many times they do it with little care and you have to intervene. This should not happen if you pay.

[pleegwat]

13 hours ago, Aurorasaurus said:

I think that price point that drives volume is... free. The friction of making a purchase for just a dollar vs finding a free MOC probably doesnt work out in the paid MOC's favor, which is why we're seeing the numbers we are.

If a free MOC uses a part I don't own (ignoring color), I may download it and see if I can make it work anyway, and I may abandon the moc if I fail. But that's still a download.

If I need to pay for the instructions (even if it's only a few euros) then it's much less likely I would take that risk.

[M_longer]

5 hours ago, Gumalca said:

we can estimate that M_longer has probably 28 times your sales too. And yet he's complaining, lol.

Your counting takes as to around 1120 unit sold. Add 600 and we are almost close :)

And yes, I still complain. 42114 was a miracle set around Covid.
But do not judge whole income by single bestseller. Divide it by years and costs I'm having month by month (I was running full time job with those for 1,5 year) as health insurance, retirement fund, life insurance, car loan etc.
Large numbers  on the begginning looks awesome, small ones after getting all things paid monthly do not :)

Also, except 42114 and 42100 alt nothing was even close to their performance. Two "magic" sets.

 

Edited November 24, 2024 by M_longer

[msk6003]

19 minutes ago, M_longer said:

1120 unit sold

Wow over 1000... Even in my dream I didn't see that number.

[M_longer]

14 minutes ago, msk6003 said:

Even in my dream I didn't see that number.

I would not left my full time job and go for instructions making without proper numbers.

[kevin8]

6 hours ago, pleegwat said:

If a free MOC uses a part I don't own (ignoring color), I may download it and see if I can make it work anyway, and I may abandon the moc if I fail. But that's still a download.

If I need to pay for the instructions (even if it's only a few euros) then it's much less likely I would take that risk.

You can see what's the part you need on Rebrickable, without dowloading the instructions. It's the third tab. It is called "Inventory"

[Gumalca]

1 hour ago, kevin8 said:

You can see what's the part you need on Rebrickable, without dowloading the instructions. It's the third tab. It is called "Inventory"

I think their point was that without knowing where a part goes they can't look for a solution to replace it.

[Bartybum]

21 hours ago, nerdsforprez said:

I don't see how paying for something precludes the payee obtaining joy. This is a flaw with modern consumerism, and doesn't reflect the reality for all people.

@johnnytifosi prez quoted me instead of you so here you go :)