What's happening with Technic?

[Aurorasaurus]

19 minutes ago, allanp said:

They could make yet another car set, this time aimed at girls in all pink for all I care, and still make a mechanically great set out of it. Superficial looks and mechanics aren't mutually exclusive

Yes please! There's a serious lack of pink technic parts, and that sounds like a perfect set for everyone.

[nerdsforprez]

12 hours ago, Amt0571 said:

I love legos, but definitely not what they're doing with it.

Lego sets are becoming worse, but Lego is pumping more and more novel elements out.  And the crappy sets are selling better than ever allowing us as AFOLs to have collections tens of thousands of elements large. 

Upshot, sets are becoming worse while MOCing opportunities are improving. 

If you build to have shelf queens, then yea, the hobby is degrading.  If you are building to actually build and not just assemble then the hobby is on the up and up.  

Honestly, I don't get why everyone is so upset.  

[Lipko]

We complain a lot about licenced sets, yet we demand "licenced" MOCs. Custom cars spark zero interest nowadays, while back in the old MOC days, they were on level with licenced cars. I think it's sad because there's more space in creativity in custom car design than making the tenth replica or making dull family cars just for the sake of making something new. This slowly creeps to other subthemes too, it's just people know cars much more than other machinery.

[thekoRngear]

2 hours ago, nerdsforprez said:

 Honestly, I don't get why everyone is so upset.  

Because the H1 wave of 2025 is outright bad or stupid. IMO, the weakest in the most recent years. It waved the ways for people to vent out and express their concerns/panic thru set specific threads and also a standalone one. I would rather be surprised if people had chosen to keep their reactions to minimum level.

TBQH, the (enthusiasm for the) sets of H1 2025 have already died by the end of 2024. There was this time (not too far past) when published pics and other infos like price/availability/pieces etc. would not be enough; people used to remain excited and would patiently wait to discover more of the set(s) in terms of techniques and new parts' uses. Those days seem like dreaming. Yes, [next year's] very few sets' techniques alongside few parts' introduction/recolouring are praised to some extent and hopefully be discussed further once they are out in the wild.

Edited December 4, 2024 by thekoRngear

[Auroralampinen]

Well i have to say the 42055 was on my opinion the last true technic original idea set the 42055 was so unique that nothing i close to that set 42055 was okay priced and reasonable priced on after market and 42055 was a great partspack i remember buildin tons of alternative build from the 42055 and 42070 pieces:) 

[mpj]

The number Technic sets released in one year has increased in the last 2 or 3 years (I remember innthe past there were only January and August releases) so it's possible that we are disappointed because we expect more and more. Instead, we get more simple/repetitive sets. The variety of parts is higher, but it's packed in "almost the same" sets.

If 1H sets were 4 or 5 like in the past, and if they were the Ducati, an F1, a small car, the plane and the dump truck, then I think we would have a different perception and we would comment positively.

What I don't like is, of course, parts count going down and prices going up.

[allanp]

7 hours ago, nerdsforprez said:

Lego sets are becoming worse, but Lego is pumping more and more novel elements out.  And the crappy sets are selling better than ever allowing us as AFOLs to have collections tens of thousands of elements large. 

Upshot, sets are becoming worse while MOCing opportunities are improving. 

If you build to have shelf queens, then yea, the hobby is degrading.  If you are building to actually build and not just assemble then the hobby is on the up and up.  

Honestly, I don't get why everyone is so upset.  

Totally agreed about the parts being superior to the sets. The MOCing opportunities are great, there's a bunch of things I want to get to but I rarely have the time to put together even a sketch model. Besides, If I did find the time to MOC it, the interesting mechanical bits would still be multicolored because that's the only colors available. Also, the Technic design team have the time, the tools and the talent to make something better than I can. I can make a MOC, but they can make a set that has had many helping expert hands and over 50 iterations with new parts and recolored parts and it's a more professional and polished final product. We know they are good. We know what they can do. Technic is like an A+ capable student putting in B- work.

[Auroralampinen]

3 minutes ago, allanp said:

Totally agreed about the parts being superior to the sets. The MOCing opportunities are great, there's a bunch of things I want to get to but I rarely have the time to put together even a sketch model. Besides, If I did find the time to MOC it, the interesting mechanical bits would still be multicolored because that's the only colors available. Also, the Technic design team have the time, the tools and the talent to make something better than I can. I can make a MOC, but they can make a set that has had many helping expert hands and over 50 iterations with new parts and recolored parts and it's a more professional and polished final product. We know they are good. We know what they can do. Technic is like an A+ capable student putting in B- work.

Well i was bad creating mocs in my earlier days but i was still proud of them eventough they looked like a brick on a wheels when i desinged the countach my skills have changed drastically to much more better results and im still some areas really bad but i dont give up i just then sit on my desk and building a trillion different solutions until i found the perfect solution and also nobody is ever perfect everyone has their own disvantages and advantages:) 

[Oh_Hi_Mao]

5 hours ago, Auroralampinen said:

Well i have to say the 42055 was on my opinion the last true technic original idea set the 42055 was so unique that nothing i close to that set 42055 was okay priced and reasonable priced on after market and 42055 was a great partspack i remember buildin tons of alternative build from the 42055 and 42070 pieces:) 

Not mention amazing B model of 42055. Number of sets increased, but total number of models decreased since there are no more B models.

[Auroralampinen]

2 minutes ago, Oh_Hi_Mao said:

Not mention amazing B model of 42055. Number of sets increased, but total number of models decreased since there are no more B models.

Yes the 42055 b model is amazund and one of my favorite b models is the 42009 b model the reach stacker

[gyenesvi]

8 hours ago, nerdsforprez said:

Lego sets are becoming worse, but Lego is pumping more and more novel elements out.

Upshot, sets are becoming worse while MOCing opportunities are improving. 

These are true, I like this point of view.

Quote

Honestly, I don't get why everyone is so upset.  

However, I believe that the technical quality of official sets and hence the novel elements and hence the potential for MOC-ing are interrelated. And that's where I could imagine improvement, I don't really care about the actual models made by TLG, as long as I can build what I'd like :)

True that there are novel parts, and hence the range of parts is only ever increasing. But it also matters what parts are coming out. The good looking shelf queens imply more paneling than technical / structural elements, and even obvious opportunities are being missed for introducing new technical elements. I'm fine with TLG going with cars, but then at least make the most common technical side of those (suspension, drivetrain) cars good, especially when a model would require. The Ford Raptor was an example of a missed opportunity for 4WD at that scale, and for me the G500 is also underwhelming on the technical side. It's a large scale, expensive set, and yet it doesn't even have a proper (non-steered) floating axle rear suspension, the simplest thing you could imagine; the geometry is unrealistic, the linkage binds, the springs are in the trunk, and the chassis frame is also unrealistically shaped. Lego is even missing structural parts to make simple strong ladder frame chassis, which sounds like a basic shape (just one example, there are other basic shapes that are also hard to build).

Edited December 4, 2024 by gyenesvi

[nerdsforprez]

8 minutes ago, allanp said:

Technic is like an A+ capable student putting in B- work.

Agree with everything you said before, however, this is the point that I see things differently than others it appears.  

The Technic team is putting in A work IMO. 

Here is why.  They understand the assignment.  The assignment is to sell sets.  Not to produce the most mechanically sophisticated sets. 

Most are confusing this distinction.  That is why we have all these complaints.  I don't care for the sets at all.  I like the parts.  If I want a mechanically sophisticated or accurate builds then I build them.  And that is not some weird flex or something.  I am one of the LEAST talented or knowledgeable builders on here.  But honestly, even I understand this distinction.  We get pages and pages of complaints on sets that are like <500 pieces, where the advertisements are done with 14 year olds, and we here as adults are on this site griping about them?  I dont mean to be insensitive, I get there was once a heyday where more sophisticated sets were built, but com'on, this simply does not make sense to me.     

2 minutes ago, gyenesvi said:

These are true, I like this point of view.

However, I believe that the technical quality of official sets and hence the novel elements and hence the potential for MOC-ing are interrelated. And that's where I could imagine improvement, I don't really care about the actual models made by TLG, as long as I can build what I'd like :)

True that there are novel parts, and hence the range of parts is only ever increasing. But it also matters what parts are coming out. The good looking shelf queens imply more paneling than technical / structural elements, and even obvious opportunities are being missed for introducing new technical elements. I'm fine with TLG going with cars, but then at least make the most common technical side of those (suspension, drivetrain) cars good, especially when a model would require. The Ford Raptor was an example of a missed opportunity for 4WD at that scale, and for me the G500 is also underwhelming on the technical side. It's a large scale, expensive set, and yet it doesn't even have a proper (non-steered) floating axle rear suspension, the simplest thing you could imagine; the geometry is unrealistic, the linkage binds, the springs are in the trunk, and the chassis frame is also unrealistically shaped. Lego is even missing structural parts to make simple strong ladder frame chassis, which sounds like a basic shape (just one example, other basic shapes are also hard to build).

Agreed.  Many of the new elements are for show.  Not necessarily for mechanical or technical aspects of a build.  

But wouldn't you agree some are?  The new flip flop beams open an explosion of possibilities alone.  Almost like a punctuated equilibrium model.  This piece alone could afford a re-do of many sets in completely different ways.  Last few years we have seen an explosion of transmission parts as well.  So many opportunities.  Also the swashplate from the Airbus H175 set.  It is not 100% accurate, granted, but such an interesting element(s) that I don't even think the AFOL community has fully tapped into yet.  

[johnnytifosi]

These threads keep popping up which is good because there are more people dissatisfied with modern Technic. However, I will keep repeating myself and say once again that licensing works. Lego is doing better than ever even if they have lost their soul and are just reduced to licensed merchandise. The Lego brand itself is not as strong as Star Wars, Harry Potter or Ferrari. We may like what Technic was once in the 90s, but it will never be the same again because it does not sell as well. Somebody correctly observed that a niche theme like Technic got reduced to the lowest common denominator to reach the widest possible audience.

Personally, I barely got out of my dark ages a couple of years ago, but I am going to enter them again as it seems. I got most of the vintage sets I always wanted, and I have no interest in the new crap that Lego keeps churning out. No B-models, functionless sets, elimination of a clear motorization option, absurd pricing have all but killed my love for the theme. Only Creator 3-in-1 seems to still capture a bit of that original Lego spirit for me, even if I was never that into System in the first place.

I urge anyone in the same position just to buy used older sets. The pool of vintage sets is endless and there is always a type of vehicle that Lego did better in the past and you will get it for a better price, a B-model and possibly a motor. For example, I see people here demanding a new backhoe. Instead of waiting for whatever overpriced soulless licenced set Lego will churn out, just get a certified classic like a 8455. Do you want a dump truck? Get a 8052. Do you want a supercar with functions? Get a 8880 and so on.

Edited December 4, 2024 by johnnytifosi

[gyenesvi]

57 minutes ago, nerdsforprez said:

But wouldn't you agree some are?  The new flip flop beams open an explosion of possibilities alone.  Almost like a punctuated equilibrium model.  This piece alone could afford a re-do of many sets in completely different ways.  Last few years we have seen an explosion of transmission parts as well.  So many opportunities.  Also the swashplate from the Airbus H175 set.  It is not 100% accurate, granted, but such an interesting element(s) that I don't even think the AFOL community has fully tapped into yet.  

Sure I agree some are and there is progress in that aspect as well, I did not mean to say there isn't, just that there seems to be more emphasis on visual parts. Flip-flop beams are awesome game-changers, I agree, only thing is that the series is getting completed really slowly, even though everyone says it is a radical change, so TLG designers must also realize this, so I don't understand why they don't speed up its rollout if it's so beneficial. New transmission parts and gears are also great, and I welcome heavy duty drivetrain parts as well, though they have a few missing pieces, and some recent pieces could have been designed better as well to make them more versatile. But what I really miss is the more basic structural parts / connectors. A prime example could be L shaped beams / thin beams with axle holes; there is a lot missing there, that if existed could also be quite a change for compact builds. That's just one example, I have listed a lot more in this thread.

29 minutes ago, johnnytifosi said:

I urge anyone in the same position just to buy used older sets.

Why not build your own stuff instead of relying on sets? It does not matter whether the parts come from old or new sets or just Bricklink / PaB..

[Frequenzberater]

I am an 80s kid. Grown up in germany with a childhood full of lego technic. Because of Lego I gained technical interests, became a "gearhead" and even my profession is engineering related today. After the famous dark ages, I discovered my love for Lego Technic again. That was around Ten years ago and boy, the thing completly escalated 

Until today I gained a huge... Really huge Lego collection including Space, Creator and Fairground sets and of course a massive amount of classic and modern Technic Sets. All displayed in a dedicated Lego Room. Over the years I have even started the GBC thing and have rebuilt around 15 Akiyuki modules. 

I really love my Technic stuff, but I have to admit that Lego is loosing me too, due to the already discussed reasons. 

Actually im quite busy with my other hobbies like making music or home improvement and my interest for new technic sets is nearly gone. 

Maybe I will focus on completing my collection of classic sets and hope for better technic times to come again someday. 

[johnnytifosi]

20 hours ago, gyenesvi said:

 

Why not build your own stuff instead of relying on sets? It does not matter whether the parts come from old or new sets or just Bricklink / PaB..

Because I don't have the spare loose parts, talent and time to come up with a large MOC, as most people do. I'm pretty sure designers at Lego spend several months working full time to prepare large sets. Moreover, getting parts from Bricklink / PaB is VERY expensive compared to buying complete sets.

[Toastie]

9 minutes ago, johnnytifosi said:

Because I don't have the spare loose parts, talent and time to come up with a large MOC, as most people do.

May I change the last three of your words to "some - actually rather few compared to TLG's audience - brilliant MOCers do". That is not only totally OK, I wish I could do that as well!

12 minutes ago, johnnytifosi said:

Moreover, getting parts from Bricklink / PaB is VERY expensive compared to buying complete sets.

Yeah, sometimes people with sufficient funds available for a hobby tend to overlook that aspect. Again, I wish I were in the same position, but so be it.

I don't know about "changing populations" ... or "for looks", or "for functions" ... As others have posted: I do perceive the "Technic change" as 100% revenue/profit driven. Particularly in a world that - for TLG - has changed much more than any population has: Over the past decades of their 60+ years of selling their plastic product (yes, there are so many more system pieces, but they originate from the exact same idea and are made more or less in the same way), tough competition has build-up. Such a situation usually calls for changing gears.

I believe TLG is simply targeting - or phrasing more politely - has identified, through decades of market analyses with ever-increasing powerful algorithms, a group of people, that are willing to spend >a lot< of money for just that: display models. The bigger, the better - for the same reason: maximizing profit. The larger the sets become the less suitable is System, which of course has in addition the 1960's touch to it, and throwing in just another gearbox is hardly possible. So even in this ("Technic") niche TLG can make some money, as apparently rich people, loving the expensive brands, who may not own a real Ferrari but now have a Ferrarili - with real technic inside! - on the wall, maybe tightly sealed in an equally expensive transparent case to save the Ferrarili from collecting dust. Once again: that is totally OK with me. I am happy when people are happy. 

But why not renaming "Technic" to "Model Team"? Well, "model" and "mold" are not that far away - "technic" sells better. I don't see any "degradation" in Technic - I just see how the plastic toy market evolves under changing conditions. And that is why I 100% revert to Technic with studs. The pieces are ubiquitously available for comparably "good" money, have the 1960 moldy touch to it (I am old). No new TLG sets >$10 for me anymore. I am still very happy though!

All the best and have a nice day (or night ;)
Thorsten

[Auroralampinen]

49 minutes ago, johnnytifosi said:

Because I don't have the spare loose parts, talent and time to come up with a large MOC, as most people do. I'm pretty sure designers at Lego spend several months working full time to prepare large sets. Moreover, getting parts from Bricklink / PaB is VERY expensive compared to buying complete sets.

Well when i got back to hobby for building technic mocs after dark ages i just bought massive amount of technic sets for pieces i think this is relatively cheap way to get started:) 

1 minute ago, Auroralampinen said:

Well when i got back to hobby for building technic mocs after dark ages i just bought massive amount of technic sets for pieces i think this is relatively cheap way to get started:) 

And if you can get sets on discount(like black friday) its even more cheap to get full sets for parts:) 

[sp1984]

1 hour ago, johnnytifosi said:

Because I don't have the spare loose parts, talent and time to come up with a large MOC, as most people do. I'm pretty sure designers at Lego spend several months working full time to prepare large sets. Moreover, getting parts from Bricklink / PaB is VERY expensive compared to buying complete sets.

Regarding spare parts from Blink/PABs I think it really depends. If you buy all spare parts in Bricklink/PABs to build given model then yes its really expensive comparing to buying ready set from shop or second hand (not MISB of course). But if you have some basic/core sets, which are decent parts pack then you can buy only some additional parts which are needed to build given another model (older set which you like) or some MOC.

I have following sets a.o.: 42128, 42110, 42144, 42157, 42158, 42124 so its decent base I think. Also bought some additional used parts on BLink on decent prices so think it is good approach.

For example I missed set with linear actuators (as my Lego dark age ends in 2021) so I bought some on BLink: 6 pieces for 38$ - is it expensive? Maybe, but I didn't want to buy whole expensive Cat D11 42131 set mainly for linear actuators (of course this set is big parts pack as well, but I just bought different sets mentioned above).

I bought also used Boost hub for 20$. It works normally and this part on Lego.com shop is really overpriced and whole Lego Boost sets on second hand market are really overpriced too. Yes I know it is a mediocre hub but wanted it for my 6 yo son to introduce robotics to him. So in that role its a good part I think.

Also I bought some cheap city parts as nice addition to play, like boats, fences, train parts or some old town/city era harbour crane parts so now can build cranes with kids and have lots of fun :)

Just my thoughts :)

 

[nerdsforprez]

1 hour ago, Toastie said:

I believe TLG is simply targeting - or phrasing more politely - has identified, through decades of market analyses with ever-increasing powerful algorithms,

If this is the case, which I and many others agree with, then the more appropriate question to this thread would be 

"What is happening to the Technic audience" rather than "what is happening to Technic"

Just like the fan of any sport or hobby, we tend to think our needs and desires is what the team or company is targeting.  When in fact, it is not.  We are small fish in a large pond, and I think that most who gripe about Technic trends forget that....

[Amt0571]

14 minutes ago, nerdsforprez said:

If this is the case, which I and many others agree with, then the more appropriate question to this thread would be 

"What is happening to the Technic audience" rather than "what is happening to Technic"

Just like the fan of any sport or hobby, we tend to think our needs and desires is what the team or company is targeting.  When in fact, it is not.  We are small fish in a large pond, and I think that most who gripe about Technic trends forget that....

Probably there's an audience that likes studless licensed and realistic cars with few if any functions. They could create a new line for them... "Technic racers", or something like that... I don't care.

But doing what they're doing to the Technic line is awful. There's no heavy machinery, no cranes, no nothing except lots of cars with similar gearboxes. The new F1 cars with 2 speed gearboxes at 225€ seem offensive to me.

Just a correction: there's heavy machinery: the liebherr crane. While I don't agree with the smartphone approach, it's probably a nice set, but at +600€ I'll never know. It's beyond unreasonable. 42043 retail price was 199€. 42082 was 249€ if I'm not mistaken and both include lots of functions, they're a big model and pricing was reasonable.

They don't even need such a big sets to have a good technic line. I have 8082 from when I was a kid and it was a great set: with only 459 pieces it included 4 models, with a very clever skid steer model that had many functions with only a motor and a mini-motor and without using modern gearbox parts. I played years and years with that set and built lots of things using those motors. I still have it, but unfortunately the multi controls no longer work as they're probably corroded inside.

[Toastie]

1 hour ago, Amt0571 said:

Probably there's an audience that likes studless licensed and realistic cars with few if any functions. They could create a new line for them... "Technic racers", or something like that... I don't care.

But that is the thing: "True" Technic = "technic a couple of true technic nerds like" has migrated into "Display Technic" because TLG's decade long analyses have shown: Print "Technic" on the box, get rid of functional but "ugly" studs, use "premium" stuff licenses all over the place, make it big, adjust the mental effort of building it, and boom, the niche theme Technic sells. To the extent that more and more sets designed along these lines sell even better. Which simply mirrors (not causes) the changing Technic audience. If TLG had to compensate for their increasing operational costs (competition means more effort) by selling nerdy, functional machines - they'd pay a lot extra, as the numbers of "true LEGO technicians" has become so small, that on a logarithmic scale of 1 to 1E10 this number hardly shows up

Arguing from a pure marketing perspective: Why pay extra for a smaller and smaller audience = market, when a much larger audience happily buys Technic display models? And as it seems, so far, regardless of price tag (not true: this is of course - and every serious company does that - carefully monitored as well: Test ballooning here and there, waiting for the market data, adjust accordingly. TLG has more than 6 decades of data at hand).

Best regards,
Thorsten

[eric trax]

Cycle of waiting for the next technic sets since 2021:

New list of sets -> Maybe it won't be so bad -> Seeing photos of sets -> Unfortunately it's bad -> Waiting for the new list of sets for the next half-year.

 

[Amt0571]

35 minutes ago, Toastie said:

But that is the thing: "True" Technic = "technic a couple of true technic nerds like" has migrated into "Display Technic" because TLG's decade long analyses have shown: Print "Technic" on the box, get rid of functional but "ugly" studs, use "premium" stuff licenses all over the place, make it big, adjust the mental effort of building it, and boom, the niche theme Technic sells. To the extent that more and more sets designed along these lines sell even better. Which simply mirrors (not causes) the changing Technic audience. If TLG had to compensate for their increasing operational costs (competition means more effort) by selling nerdy, functional machines - they'd pay a lot extra, as the numbers of "true LEGO technicians" has become so small, that on a logarithmic scale of 1 to 1E10 this number hardly shows up

Arguing from a pure marketing perspective: Why pay extra for a smaller and smaller audience = market, when a much larger audience happily buys Technic display models? And as it seems, so far, regardless of price tag (not true: this is of course - and every serious company does that - carefully monitored as well: Test ballooning here and there, waiting for the market data, adjust accordingly. TLG has more than 6 decades of data at hand).

Best regards,
Thorsten

I'm not against "Display Technic" (I myself display most of my sets nowadays, although I like them being technical). I'm not against lots of Formula 1 cars. I'm not against licensed sets. It's just that I don't get why they don't create a separate lines for this type of buyer, and they keep Technic technical, with the expected functions and complexity, for the "traditional" audience.

They could create a "cars" line... we always had "supercars", but there was mostly one at a time. It makes no sense having a Ferrari, a Bugatti, a Lambo and a McLaren with the same functionalities in the Technic line, especially if there's no way to see how they work after assembly.

I also don't get how it's possible that a TECHNIC line vehicle has an engine with fake "pistons", without connecting rods when it's supposed to show you how things work... 42110 is a great offender: 4x4, one of the most complex gearboxes ever made in Lego (so complex it mostly doesn't work if there's a bit of dust), a decent winch, and a 6L engine made of loose axles? really?

They know how to make decent sets at decent pricepoints. They can do it. And that doesn't exclude making lots of cars.

42043, 42042, 42082, 8043, 42054, 42053 and even 42144 are all decent sets. They could have kept selling them instead of retiring. There's plenty of market for them, especially considering the prices of some of the in the used market... with the Airbus Helicopter and the John Deere skidder out of stock, there's no serious "big" set being sold right now.

[2GodBDGlory]

40 minutes ago, eric trax said:

Cycle of waiting for the next technic sets since 2021:

New list of sets -> Maybe it won't be so bad -> Seeing photos of sets -> Unfortunately it's bad -> Waiting for the new list of sets for the next half-year.

Yep!

Though I feel like we're usually all disappointed and bored with the winter wave, and even if we're disappointed, the summer wave is usually more interesting