1x6 Slope Geometry

[SNIPE]

This is wrong in 2 ways because stupid LEGO didn't bother testing the part properly:

Had they properly tested this part as well as the 2x1 and 4x1 versions of these studless slopes they would have noticed that you can"t use half plate offsets like you can with other studless slopes to have the diagonal bit flush and not "shingled" (now I've wasted money on a part that I can no longer use to make diagonal roads)

But also theres a hideous gap between the brack and snot brick.

WHY CAN'T THEY JUST MAKE A 1X1 SLOPE WITH A FULL PLATE LIP ON THE BOTTOM IN 2 OR 3 DIFFERENT ANGLES so that they are the same angles as wedge plates, you can therefore have SNOT SLOPES and clamp them in with non SNOT wedge plates for the sidewalks and not have to deal with half plate trickery and even then they are not at the same angle as any wedge plate.

Edited December 24, 2024 by Clone OPatra
Retitled

[Lyichir]

6 minutes ago, SNIPE said:

This is wrong in 2 ways because stupid LEGO didn't bother testing the part properly:

Had they properly tested this part as well as the 2x1 and 4x1 versions of these studless slopes they would have noticed that you can"t use half plate offsets like you can with other studless slopes to have the diagonal bit flush and not "shingled" (now I've wasted money on a part that I can no longer use to make diagonal roads)

But also theres a hideous gap between the brack and snot brick.

WHY CAN'T THEY JUST MAKE A 1X1 SLOPE WITH A FULL PLATE LIP ON THE BOTTOM IN 2 OR 3 DIFFERENT ANGLES so that they are the same angles as wedge plates, you can therefore have SNOT SLOPES and clamp them in with non SNOT wedge plates for the sidewalks and not have to deal with half plate trickery and even then they are not at the same angle as any wedge plate.

It's not Lego's fault that your design used faulty math. Using half-brick offsets like you are can create weird gaps like this. Brackets have a thickness of half a plate, as does the space at the bottom of a brick with side studs (below the stud area). But attaching parts to the middle of a 1x2 plate like you are creates a quarter plate gap that can't be addressed with brackets alone. Even if the bracket had a full plate thickness instead of a half your math still wouldn't work—then you'd have the same quarter-plate gap between your two slopes.

[SNIPE]

10 minutes ago, Lyichir said:

It's not Lego's fault that your design used faulty math. Using half-brick offsets like you are can create weird gaps like this. Brackets have a thickness of half a plate, as does the space at the bottom of a brick with side studs (below the stud area). But attaching parts to the middle of a 1x2 plate like you are creates a quarter plate gap that can't be addressed with brackets alone. Even if the bracket had a full plate thickness instead of a half your math still wouldn't work—then you'd have the same quarter-plate gap between your two slopes.

I said half plate not half brick, and the other studless slopes work just fine, as shown in the above image I just added (but I dont know if they line up with tiles with the diagonal cutout so I would have to I guess make the sidewalks use slopes on their side as well :) but raise them by a brick or half a brick which is more challenging but oh well.

LEGO is all about having a system where parts can connect with other parts, and this is hardly a weird thing im trying to do.

OK maybe I am mistaken (I got impatient) in that its a half brick offset but the fact that there is still a lip there doesnt change anything, when using half plate offsets can make smooth diagonals with no "shingling"

infact LEGO could even have slopes with no lip and still ditch the rounded corners, as this 6x1 slope has no counded corners unlike a cheese slope. of the new studless 2x1 slope

Edited December 22, 2024 by SNIPE

[Stereo]

The 1x6 slope is a pretty old design, first produced that slope pitch in 1983, so it's not really a surprise if it doesn't work with brackets that didn't appear for 30 years.

Edited December 22, 2024 by Stereo

[SNIPE]

1 minute ago, Stereo said:

The 1x6 slope is a pretty old design, first produced that slope pitch in 1983, so if anything, it's the snot bricks that came later that are wrong.

This part came out last year...

TLG needs to make parts that can make different shaped roads in a flexable manner, not just right angles. and even have inclined and declined roads, the parts should be as flexable as possible in what they can do.

Edited December 22, 2024 by SNIPE

[Stereo]

Yeah, it's the 1-wide version of 8-wide 4515.

[SNIPE]

9 minutes ago, Stereo said:

Yeah, it's the 1-wide version of 8-wide 4515.

And weirdly, this 8x6 slope works fine when making non shingled diagonals (IIRC)

unless LDCAD has the part wrong, I only have 1 of the 8x6 slopes so its hard to test.

Edited December 22, 2024 by SNIPE

[Stereo]

Looks the same to me, in that a 1 stud vertical shift makes it slightly too high.

[Trekkie99]

You can definitely get them to line up. Trust me.

[MAB]

7 hours ago, SNIPE said:

This part came out last year...

TLG needs to make parts that can make different shaped roads in a flexable manner, not just right angles. and even have inclined and declined roads, the parts should be as flexable as possible in what they can do.

By making parts that do what you want them to do, it will mean that they don't do what others (or LEGO) want them to do, or lead to very similar parts that have slightly different functions and/or offsets. I don't believe that the company or individual designers are stupid as you claim. Their new part designs undergo lots of testing to ensure they fit the purpose they are designed for.

[SNIPE]

Again, totally un-neccesary, this is the 4x1 version of the 6x1 shown in my original post.

having  0 or 1 plate lips does not make the part worse in any way.

And tiles + slopes should not have the groove on the underside to make them "easier to remove"

They should just instead use a different plastic that has slightly less friction than the old tiles without bottom groove or something like that. LEGO asthetic is nowdays is 2024 not 1994

Edited December 23, 2024 by SNIPE

[Murdoch17]

@SNIPE Tiles with groove have been around since 1972, so it's not a new thing. Tiles without groove are nigh on impossible to remove, and brick separators will be useless with them.

Just because you think something is a good idea, doesn't mean it is... LEGO geometry works the way it does for good reasons. Making something slightly out of geometry throws EVERYTHING else off.

[SNIPE]

On 12/22/2024 at 12:53 PM, Murdoch17 said:

@SNIPE Tiles with groove have been around since 1972, so it's not a new thing. Tiles without groove are nigh on impossible to remove, and brick separators will be useless with them.

Just because you think something is a good idea, doesn't mean it is... LEGO geometry works the way it does for good reasons. Making something slightly out of geometry throws EVERYTHING else off.

It is still in lego geometry... you're just making the lip (which already does not line up with tiles anyhow) slightly larger so that these slopes can make diagonals without the shingle effect. It just means that the diagonals angle is different, because otherwise the highest point of the slope would not be able to be flush with tiles (which all lego slopes alredy are, just not on the fronts)

As I just said already, you make the tiles easier to remove yet still eliminate the bottom groove.

Now heres a problem I have too, its not a huge deal but usually is if theres a large gap:

This is fine for these slopes to have the gap but LEGO , as I mentioned should make specical parts that are 45, 22.5 and 11.25 degrees (because these all can still add up to 90 , 180 270 or 360 degrees and make them have bo bottom lip or have the bottom grooves, and make all 4 sides diagonals so that you don't get these gaps like in the above image.

Yes wedge plates and other slopes now would be weird when put against these new parts, but thats because lego gave slopes the half plate lip, and because they made (except or 45 degree wedge bricks/plates/tiles) have angles that do not add up to 90,180,,270,or 360 degrees.

Parts like that would be invaluable because you can make cities that have all sorts of anglad roads, or angled streets

Since they can add up to 90/180/270/360 degrees you can still build normally on the ends of them,

Modulex slopes got close to this but sadly it was never done in LEGO parts

Edited December 23, 2024 by SNIPE

[Trekkie99]

Actually after fiddling around in studio I think the front of this slope is 5/8 of a plate tall lol. 

[Mylenium]

8 hours ago, MAB said:

By making parts that do what you want them to do, it will mean that they don't do what others (or LEGO) want them to do, or lead to very similar parts that have slightly different functions and/or offsets. I don't believe that the company or individual designers are stupid as you claim. Their new part designs undergo lots of testing to ensure they fit the purpose they are designed for.

It's ultimately an academic discussion. There is per se no intrinsic reason "The System" could not have this and that element and wacky, uneven offsets or weird angles. The real issue is that in order for any of that to be useful you'd always need a second element to undo these irregular operations and then it simply gets too specific. It's no longer a universal connection and it ends up in a mess that is snowballing into an avalanche of single-use special parts. A case could probably made that their could be a sub-group of dedicated road-building elements as per the OP's request that allow to do this using sideways building with gap-less slopes plus tiles, plates and bricks without grooves, but even then you run into that simple problem of people getting creative and wanting to use this for other stuff and then you'd have to explain to them why they can't use it or implement technical counter measures that prevent these from connecting with the regular ones. It's really a catch 22.

Mylenium

[MAB]

4 hours ago, Mylenium said:

A case could probably made that their could be a sub-group of dedicated road-building elements as per the OP's request that allow to do this using sideways building with gap-less slopes plus tiles, plates and bricks without grooves, but even then you run into that simple problem of people getting creative and wanting to use this for other stuff and then you'd have to explain to them why they can't use it or implement technical counter measures that prevent these from connecting with the regular ones. It's really a catch 22.

I cannot really see why there would be a case for LEGO to make sideways building parts **that were dedicated for road use** when they make a studs up road building system. MOCers / AFOLs designing their own systems have to work with what LEGO produce and LEGO wouldn't fill the gap (literally) in the AFOL creations if that part has no use in LEGO's designs.

[Jim]

Your original images aren't displayed properly. Or is it just me? Can you fix them?

[SNIPE]

18 hours ago, Jim said:

Your original images aren't displayed properly. Or is it just me? Can you fix them?

I'll take a look.

Anyhow, THIS is what I have in mind: (proof of concept. the road and sidewalks would be wider in my real city)

yellow are 11.25 degree slopes, they have 1 clutch under them. they make up the road

Dark bluish gray is the road also,

Light blush gray is the sidewalks. Here I made a angled junction but you can do so much cool stuff with this theoretical piece.

thanks to @Philo for making this part and fast!

EDIT, I reuploaded the images using bricksafe for the previous replies

Edited December 24, 2024 by SNIPE

[Berthil]

Stupid title and again useless discussion. Go make something with plaster if everything should fit together.

[SNIPE]

6 hours ago, Berthil said:

Stupid title and again useless discussion. Go make something with plaster if everything should fit together.

Everything fitting together is the whole philosophy of LEGO...

What's so stupid about my last reply anyhow, there's no good way to build diagonally in a neat way using LEGO because you either have gaps or have to hide stuff that sticks out or that doesn't make a flush edge under more parts (which you can't always do)

If you wanna be a fanboy then that's not my problem, I like LEGO but that's not to say they don't make mistakes

[Clone OPatra]

The somewhat inflammatory title isn't befitting what has become a productive discussion. I have changed it, but feel free to suggest something else if you'd prefer.

[Jim]

2 minutes ago, Clone OPatra said:

The somewhat inflammatory title isn't befitting what has become a productive discussion. I have changed it, but feel free to suggest something else if you'd prefer.

Thanks! I was about to suggest a new title. The previous one was needlessly offensive.