ForbiddenCove

[Dreamweb]

I hope we can strike up a similar relationship to what CC has with the EB Castle Community - many of whom are prominant contributors on both sites. Does anyone consider those two online communities to be in contest with each other? Of course not, & I wish for the same here.

Is it forbidden on Classic-Castle to admit that you're also a Eurobricks or Classic-Pirates member? I don't post there, so I don't know, but somehow I don't think so. And that - I guess - makes the difference in our view of your new website.

Edited August 11, 2008 by Dreamweb

[Siegfried]

Is it forbidden on Classic-Castle to admit that you're also a Eurobricks or Classic-Pirates member?

I admitted I was one and I survived. My hammock may have been short sheeted though; I'll get back to you.

EDIT: Ooops, I misread the question.... Well, I can say that many of our members are on both sites using the same user names.

[Hinckley]

Why is Classic-Pirates.com a forbidden word on the Cove site? Yeah, I can't say I am overly proud of this myself, but the Admin Staff thought it necessary as a whole. The reason isn't that we are making some kind of attack on EB, because that would be a very disaffective attack indeed, it's actually the reverse. The admin team are concerned that members of the EB community might have posted comments on FC like, "forget about this site, visit the community at EB!" and the such. Personally I am uncomfortable with the decision and I hope it changes in the future, but it's going to take goodwill on both sides of the strait to break down each other's fears.

My vision for community websites is one of inclusivity and fairness, and I can assure you that these things were not done with my consent. Aaron has already said many of the things that I would have, so I will forgo repeating them, except for the hope that this will not sully the relationship between any AFOL and either site.

Thanks for stopping by, guys. It's very good to see you here. I enjoy both of your MOCs very much and have a dedicated folder for each of you on my computer as you've inspired a lot of my own work. It's nice to hear your perspective on the issues brought up in this thread. I hope you can convince your fellow admins to reduce these restrictions and comments. Starting out with paranoia isn't given us very much credit. I personally would love to see your site do well and see no reason why we can't co-exist peacefully and even as brother-sites. Shall we wipe the slate clean and let a natural relationship grow between the sites? The site looks great. I hope it turns out to be everything you want it to be.

[Dovchenko]

Whipe clean thy slate dudes.

I have a question though, what's the difference between this new site and Classic-Pirates? Are they brother communities or something more like Bzpower/Maskofdestiny? (I don't care for Bionicle though.) Or, completely different? It's not my descision, but depending on what either site tries to do (and from what I see: EUROBRICKS is more of a general LEGO pirates site and this ForbiddenCove revolves around the possibility of Lego Pirates returning), they should probably try to stay close together.

go to a LEGO convention and you will realize EB is, in fact, a dirty word.

How?

[Brick Miner]

So you support them putting Eurobricks in their "swear filter" and directing kids to classic-pirates.com?

I don't know Ben or any of these other guys. I've never met any of them. However, doing what they did makes them and the AFOL community they represent look bad. It's a negative signal and we have enough negativism already these days.

no, i don’t. but what i mean is that ben is a very nice guy. And EB is used, very common, as a socially acceptable passive-aggressive joke within the AFOL community. i saw it first hand at BW, and became a victim of its ridicule when my past involvement in the site came up in discussion. this is something that needs to be deconstructed over time.

I am sympathetic to everyone. and i wouldn’t be surprised to read a formal apology note from the site. these are not malicious people.

-BM

Edited August 11, 2008 by Brick Miner

[Hinckley]

no, i don’t. but what i mean is that ben is a very nice guy. And EB is used, very common, as a socially acceptable passive-aggressive joke within the AFOL community. i saw it first hand at BW, and became a victim of its ridicule when my past involvement in the site came up in discussion. this is something that needs to be deconstructed over time.

I was there at BrickWorld with you and I didn't think the sentiment against EB was that bad. Granted, I noticed it...and talked about it a lot...but it seemed to only be a handful of people who really had a problem with EB. And they seemed to be people who have a problem with everything. But a lot of people who were unsure about things they'd heard hadn't taken the time to stop by and form their own opinion. So, I agree with you that we do have a reputation that I would love to de-construct over time and I think we've been making good steps towards that.

Miss you, BTW.

And yes, I also agree with you that Ben is not a malicious person. He seemed quite the opposite actually. One of those people who doesn't take these sorts of things too seriously. He's a good guy.

[Admiral Blockbeard]

While the initial set-up seemed like an insult to us, your clear explanations have done more than explain it was a misunderstanding/not to be personal , I feel that it was a sign of respect, and one that has completely turned my opinion on the matter. This collaboration will do fine and I am sure that due to the age limit the process will go unhindered from our side of the fence. Maybe talking to us before its creation would have helped the transition and also given you greater "media coverage", I am 99.98% sure our Admins would have been open to the idea!

Expect my registration some time in the future, all I ask is that you reconsider the no linking option, obviously we as members of your forum would not excessively do this, but consider the fact that both sites could then display such things as Cpt. Green hairs comics. Or other discussions that are worth while, for example our thread with all the suspicion surrounding the new pirate line. I feel this sight could be a great resource of information and inspiration for your members, without damaging your own community.

Thank you for explaining your reasonings with us, I hope Phred, Phes, Cpt. Green Hair, Mr Tiber, Bonaparte, SlyOwl and ImperialShadows as well as Sinner a frequent visitor are not insulted by you thinking they are too busy/lazy I am sure they are too busy

A new slate shall be made, let us make it of Marble! Perhaps C-P will merge one day with F-C, and EB will link it!

Regards,

Cpt. PB

[ellerb]

Whipe clean thy slate dudes.

I have a question though, what's the difference between this new site and Classic-Pirates?

Snip

Currently the main difference I see is the forums. Classic-Pirates is based more on the lugnet model where all Pirate LEGO related conversations take place in one forum which is part of a larger General LEGO discussion site. Forbidden Cove is more like FBTB.net, Classic-Space, and Classic-Castle in that we are an independent site that only focuses on one theme and have many sub forums for different aspects of that theme. Both forum models have pros and cons. I like how theme sites provide more focus to that theme. It is also nice to visit larger general sites to learn about what is happening in other themes that I may not often build in. We at Forbidden Cove are simply offering another option to Pirate fans. I encourage any fan to join either or both sites. All are welcome.

Ben

[BigDaddy]

Aye, the seas are big enough for both vessels. We hope to see you there.

[Wes]

you have to realize, ben isn’t speaking to you guys… he’s speaking to the rest of the AFOL community. And that is how the rest of the AFOL community talks about EB. go to a LEGO convention and you will realize EB is, in fact, a dirty word.

I can't say I'm surprised. My first experience with EuroBricks was having someone post my MOC without my permission, and then watching people trash-talk it behind my back. I joined so I could talk about it and Lego pirates, and because pirate-bricks.com died.

EBers tend to be extremely critical, even on wonderful MOCs, and as a new member I don't feel any sense of friendship or community, because there's not much effort on the part of the veteran members to include the new people. I have tried to be active and helpful as possible...it's necessary to point out the above so the admins are aware of the situation from a different viewpoint.

Anyway, I'm irritated by the initial hate from FC and having them coming over here to post "damage control" messages after the fact isn't exactly trust-earning, but at least they're trying. The main thing, of course, is that they've started a site that duplicates our niche...even if a particular member spent even time on both forums, EB would only be getting half the posts, and it doesn't make sense to have the same conversations on both boards.

As for Lugnet, I think their downfall is the complex, time-consuming, non-free registration process. I tried to become a member a long time ago and I might as well have been throwing my money into a black hole. My request was never responded to and I ended up using the mail setup.

Sorry for such a negative post.

Edited August 11, 2008 by Wes

[Mister Phes]

Dear Wes, I find such posts useful because without user feedback its very difficult to improve the forum in the best interest of the users. In the past I quite often conducted feedback polls to gather such information but have not been doing so recently. Still, we endeavour to run the Pirate Forum a little differently than the rest of Eurobricks.

As for posting your MOC without permission... That could happen on any forum because its not always easy to locate the builder. In the past I've suggested we make an effort to contact the builder and invite them to the discussion. I've also attempted to educate users the value of "true criticism" which takes into account both the positive and negative aspects of a creation.

[Wes]

Thank you for your reasonable reply. I feel better now that I've had a chance to "vent."

as a new member I don't feel any sense of friendship or community

Thankfully, this is starting to change. Some of the recent posts like the offer to help me buy bluecoats and your posts have got me feeling good and optimistic.

Eurobricks is the best Lego pirate site on the internet.

[Sir Dano]

Sir Dano, maybe you could explain to us (me) why the site has been started, as of yet I see no reason for it.

Well, it's already been explained, but the answer was obvious to me since The 'Cove started. C-P is extremely disorganized imho, and The 'Cove puts every thread in it's proper place.

P.S. Long Live Forbidden Cove!

[blueandwhite]

As for posting your MOC without permission... That could happen on any forum because its not always easy to locate the builder. In the past I've suggested we make an effort to contact the builder and invite them to the discussion. I've also attempted to educate users the value of "true criticism" which takes into account both the positive and negative aspects of a creation.

I wouldn't worry that sort of thing. As long as the original creator is credited and people are polite things shouldn't be a problem for most builders (I hope). This isn't exactly a problem unique to Eurobricks. I've found this to be somewhat common across LEGO forums. I suspect that it's just human nature to be more critical of strangers. It's very easy to be unnecessarily condescending when the original creator is not present. Perhaps I'm alone in observing this, but it does seem that people do tend to heap on nothing but praise for MOCs that are created by a thread-starter while ripping apart the MOCs of unknown builders if they are anything less than a masterwork (and in some cases even master-level MOCs seem to take a good thrashing).

Heck, it's that anonymity that makes many of the reviews on MOCpages so difficult to read. People tend to forget that there are other fans behind these MOCs who pour their best into them. Phes, I actually have found that most posters are pretty level-headed. There will always be a few who are a bit harsher than the majority.

Edited August 12, 2008 by blueandwhite

[babyjawa]

Eurobricks is the best Lego pirate site on the internet.

For now....

But Anyways, I don't see what the big deal is. It's just another pirate site. If you don't want to join, don't. If you do, then join. It's as simple as that.. in my opinion. Having another site just gives you the choice of what one you prefer, or possibly even both.

[Scouty]

For now....

But Anyways, I don't see what the big deal is. It's just another pirate site. If you don't want to join, don't. If you do, then join. It's as simple as that.. in my opinion. Having another site just gives you the choice of what one you prefer, or possibly even both.

I joined the site too . But I did so after they removed the negative things of C-P. I can't stand a site that would do something like that (I already had to endure something like that). In either case, I hope that good, strong bond will form, or at least peace between the two awesome communities!

Long live LEGO Pirates!

[Mister Phes]

I wouldn't worry that sort of thing.

It's not that I feel its obligatory to have the builder contacted, I just think its nice to receive their perspective and what their motivations and influences were when building the MOC.

Perhaps I'm alone in observing this, but it does seem that people do tend to heap on nothing but praise for MOCs that are created by a thread-starter while ripping apart the MOCs of unknown builders if they are anything less than a masterwork (and in some cases even master-level MOCs seem to take a good thrashing).

I've noticed this too and I've noticed I've done it myself in the past, but ever since I became conscious of my actions I've strived to provide more objective criticism and encouraged others to do the same.

[WesternOutlaw]

And EB is used, very common, as a socially acceptable passive-aggressive joke within the AFOL community. i saw it first hand at BW, and became a victim of its ridicule when my past involvement in the site came up in discussion. this is something that needs to be deconstructed over time.

Hi BM. It's nice to see you posting on EB.

I take offense to this though (not against you). The only joke, in my opinion, is that other sites aren't as good as EB. EB was my first Lego community fan site. While I'm VERY bias towards EB, I still think it kicks @$$ over other sites. I've posted to sites like Classic Castle, some of which have received ZERO responses. In fact, after a few, I don't even bother posting there anymore. I'm not saying that Classic Castle is not a quality site, but if the Forbidden Cove is anything like Classic Castle, I think Classic-Pirates will be better.

It seems that EB does draw a lot of younger participants, but at the same time, messages are read and there's a lot of discussion/participation on most threads. That does not seem the case with other sites. I enjoy the activity.

I have not spent much time in Classic-Pirates.com, but I love the references, like the image reviews, the set references, and the numerous topics of discussion. I'd be real curious to see what kind of format the Forbidden Cove will have.

The on-line Lego community is starting to become more saturated. This will probably decrease activity on a few sites. I prefer 1-2 good quality sites, spending most of my time at these (EB being the first). I don't know if I have the time or energy to visit numerous others, esp. another Pirate site. I wish them luck, but Classic-Pirates is still my 1st choice.

[blueandwhite]

The only joke, in my opinion, is that other sites aren't as good as EB. EB was my first Lego community fan site. While I'm VERY bias towards EB, I still think it kicks @$$ over other sites. I've posted to sites like Classic Castle, some of which have received ZERO responses. In fact, after a few, I don't even bother posting there anymore. I'm not saying that Classic Castle is not a quality site, but if the Forbidden Cove is anything like Classic Castle, I think Classic-Pirates will be better.

Perhaps the difference is that you are a regular here, whereas over at Classic-Castle your reputation hasn't really been established. At Eurobricks, when you post people pay attention. You have established yourself as being an excellent builder and an insightful poster. That kind of reputation isn't easy to establish. If you stop posting here at Eurobricks, people would immediately take notice. Conversely, if a less established member such as myself were to stop posting it makes no dent on the Eurobricks community. Here you have over 4000 posts, whereas at Classic-Castle you have under 100. Isn't comparing your experiences at the two sites like comparing apples to oranges?

While I definitely agree with you that Eurobricks is an amazing site, I wouldn't be so hard on Classic-Castle. The site has done alot for castle fans and I don't think it's as unfriendly as you're suggesting.

[bruce n h]

Hey,

I'm just a lurker in these parts of the Legoverse, so feel free to ignore this. Also, while I am a CC admin I have had no involvement with the creation of FC, so in no way speak for them. A couple of quick thoughts:

-Upthread someone said that FC was a clone of Classic-Pirates. Actually, it's a straight up clone of Classic-Castle, using all of the same code etc (except an updated version of the forum software that maybe we'll use on CC). Also, at least for the moment, this is not splitting CP, but instead is drawing most of the early members from CC, and so is draining at least some of the traffic from the CC forums.

-Some, upthread, have made various arguments around the idea of "why make a new site, it's splitting the community." Of course, the same could be said of Eurobricks, Classic-Castle, and pretty much every other site. Whenever something new started, the old argument of "All conversation belongs on Lugnet! You're fragmenting the community!" To take it further, we could say that all conversation belongs on rec.toys.lego, the Usenet group, and I think that split off from an earlier listserver. Or you could point back to the original groups of AFOLs who were meeting in someone's living room that led to one of the earlier gatherings (I'm too lazy to dig through and find the early history). Now, of course, there are tons of communities, blogs, not to mention the 1093 Flickr groups that come up when you search "LEGO." In the sidebar of my blog I have links to 12 image sharing sites, 39 community forums, 95 or so active LEGO blogs, and probably about the same number of dormant LEGO blogs, not to mention a bunch of new communities and blogs that I've got bookmarked and ready to add to my sidebar. We're a long way from the day when "everyone" posted their images on Brickshelf and their conversations on Lugnet (not that that was ever true). Has the community been hurt? I'd argue no. Yes, it is impossible to know everyone and every MOC in the way that some feel they once could, but that's because the community has grown by leaps and bounds. It's like this. Once upon a time I could play with all of my friends in my basement, because my world was pretty much the kids on my street. Now some of my closest friends live thousands of miles away, and my different associations are broken up in many different ways - my wife and daughter, my sisters and their families, people I work with, friend from my previous job, people from my church, guys I went to college with, people from graduate school, the poker gang, the guys I play roller hockey with, the other parents at my daughter's daycare etc etc etc. Is my circle of friends richer or poorer for the fact that I cannot fit all of these people in my basement anymore? It's the same with the community. More sites bring in different people, and I interact with some people in one forum, others by leaving comments on their flickr page, others by e-mail etc. So I'm with Mao (!), let a thousand flowers bloom. Some will fade and be forgotten, others will grow and thrive and become vital parts of the community.

Bruce

[Athos]

So I'm with Mao (!), let a thousand flowers bloom.

As I recall, that didn't turn out so well...

Steve

[WesternOutlaw]

Perhaps the difference is that you are a regular here, whereas over at Classic-Castle your reputation hasn't really been established. At Eurobricks, when you post people pay attention. You have established yourself as being an excellent builder and an insightful poster. That kind of reputation isn't easy to establish.

Thank you B&W. That's very nice of you to say.

If you stop posting here at Eurobricks, people would immediately take notice. Conversely, if a less established member such as myself were to stop posting it makes no dent on the Eurobricks community.

I don't necessarily agree with you on this. We're all expendable on any site, and although everyone likes to feel that they greatly contribute to the success of a board, when one of us leaves, it only makes a "brief ripple" in the bigger theme of things. At the same time B&W, you are a valued member of EB as well and you have contributed greatly to EB. Just your comments here demonstrate your ability to add quality to any post with your thoughts on a subject. I thank you for that and I'm sure other members of EB appreciate you to.

While I definitely agree with you that Eurobricks is an amazing site, I wouldn't be so hard on Classic-Castle. The site has done alot for castle fans and I don't think it's as unfriendly as you're suggesting.

Oh, I'm sorry if I implied that CC is not a friendly site. This was not my intent. No one has ever been "unfriendly" to me. It's just that even when I was a brand new member of EB and shared my first MOC, as well as other new member posts, I was immediately accepted and don't recall ever having a post go without at least one response. This is not true of Classic Castle as I've encountered it a few times there (if I recall correctly). Perhaps it was the nature/subject of my posts.

In any case, EB seems to get a lot of traffic in all themes: Castle, Adventure, Space, City, Star Wars, etc. One can be diverse and share thoughts on many different themes and topics. I still miss the days when the Pirate theme was part of the History/Adventure forum. Having to go to a separate forum detracts me from checking it more often. This is how I view the new FC site, even further from easily checking new posts.

I'm not knocking Classic Castle as they do have some great references, contests, and other good quality material; and I'm sure FC will have equally good material. I suppose you could just call me a man set in my ways, and I like the EB community.

[Kamzel]

Well, I visited this site today and it seems to me that they don't have a great future ahead. IMHO Censorship (their "leaks" policy) and Internet forums don't go well together. I understand that publishing "leaked" pictures is not allowed - but to ban talking about them? Do we live in China or North Korea? What do you think about this?

EDIT: I must admit I didn't know that this kind of "policy" (censorship) is a common one on the forums created by people living in democratic countries. I know why many things are forbidden on Internet forums (like improper language, etc...), but I cannot find a reason for banning comments on some next-year sets. Mister Phase wrote "they have their policies for a reason", does any of you know what reason is it?

And one more thing: I do not want to criticise this particular site (FC), I just wanted to know what is your opinion on this kind of Internet self-censorship (perhaps this is not a good thread for this).

Edited August 22, 2008 by Kamzel

[Mister Phes]

I think it's best we don't speculate the future of Forbidden Cove here, they have their policies for a reason and I don't think we should be question their intentions. Just give their community time to grow and see what happens.

[Nikola Bathory]

I agree. I am surprised at their attitude as we have always promoted Classic-Castle competitions, and we have a link to CC on our frontpage. They even have "Eurobricks" in their swear filter... (It changes to "That Euro site".)

I don't understand why we deserve such rudeness.

omfg!!! They have "Eurobricks" in their swear filter???? Idiots! I won't register in their lame forum then!!