Can LEGO be damaged by heat/cold extremes?

[Ralph_S]

Well with the wind it's apparently -25 outside right now where I am [Toronto], but inside the trunk it'd obviously be ignoring the wind. Still, it can get -30 around here, and I'm sure I'm not in the coldest place among some folks on here.

However, seeing as how the pieces are in box and not assembled, I can't see how the plastic shrinking due to temperature [which I'm assuming is what would happen] could be dangerous for the pieces, really. Unless some other mysterious process occurs. I'm hardly a scientist, afterall.

Even in the wind your LEGO wouldn't be colder due to wind. The whole point behind a wind-chill factor is that we, as humans, produce heat and we loose this heat faster in the wind, making the temperature seem lower than it actually is. LEGO doesn't suffer from the same effect.

Cheers,

Ralph

[Tobbe Arnesson]

Even in the wind your LEGO wouldn't be colder due to wind. The whole point behind a wind-chill factor is that we, as humans, produce heat and we loose this heat faster in the wind, making the temperature seem lower than it actually is. LEGO doesn't suffer from the same effect.

Cheers,

Ralph

Actually they do, everything reaches the surrounding temperature faster if there is wind - be it up or down. This is due to the air closest to the object acting as insulation, helping the object remain the initial temperature longer. If there is wind the "insulation" blows away...

In summer vaporizing sweat keeps us cool, that's why wind cools you down on a hot day. The same effect can be used to say cool a can of beer on a hot day, wrap it in a damp towel and let the wind work it's magic.

[XimenaPaulina]

I'd take Davey's word for it since he's the thermoplastic engineer who knows the various properties of plastic products. But I'd say, even without the knowledge of the actual Lego ABS formulation, those Lego sets in the car trunk will be just fine. If the parts were physically exposed against the extreme cold weather for an extended period of time, then it might affect the mechanical properties, but leaving it inside the car trunk for a couple of weeks? I don't think it will hardly have any effect on the lego pieces at all.

Edited December 17, 2010 by KielDaMan

[AndyC]

Edit: If we get another cold day here I might do some test to prove it, bummer I don't have access to liquid nitrogen!

I'm pretty sure then that damage would be more due to the liquid nitrogen than surface moisture freezing anyway!

[Ralph_S]

Actually they do, everything reaches the surrounding temperature faster if there is wind - be it up or down. This is due to the air closest to the object acting as insulation, helping the object remain the initial temperature longer. If there is wind the "insulation" blows away...

That's not what I meant.

Indeed, if the LEGO is warmer than the temperature of the air, it will cool down more rapidly if there is wind than if there isn't, because the wind makes the thermal boundary layer thinner, but no matter what happens, it won't become colder than the temperature of the air. That's what I meant.

The wind chill factor is based on what a certain wind and temperature feels like. -10F might feel like -25F in the wind to a human (because the human in question looses heat more rapidly in the wind), but a piece of LEGO won't become any colder than -10F irrespective of whether it is or isn't in the wind.

Ralph

Edited December 17, 2010 by Ralph_S

[LEGO Guy Bri]

I was wondering if anyone knows if LEGO can be damaged by cold?

The reason I ask is because I'm in the middle of moving to a new house and I have a few large unopened sets in the trunk of my car. The weather has been pretty cold here lately ( below freezing) and I'm a little worried if my LEGO is going to be ok. It's been sitting in there a few days and I'm going to have to keep it there for another few days to a week more.

Thanks.

Hi, I haven't read all the posts in this forum, but I agree with Davey and Kieldaman on the effects of extreme cold and ABS plastic. As most know cold = shinkage (not noticibly though) and brittleness (recommended if you plan on on smacking them with a hammer ) But sick jokes aside, I have tons of sets I have stored in my attic, stickers applied on many. While I can't check on the unopened, I DO check on the others. The average temp up there during the night (coldest) is between 22-32 degrees F. It's not as cold as our neighbors up north, but still noticbly cold..

As for stickers, they are all intact with no pealing at the corners. I also have a Lego City in a room/closet with similar temps (no insulation) where I have a sticker sheet from over 12 years ago.(California Lego Truck ) The leftover sticker is just as it was back then. I know this bc I finally made a trailer for it a few months ago and applied two of the three stickers. Further proof of there durability is another sticker sheet from set 6540 Pier Police, unused, that is just like brand new. All of my Lego are subject to temp changes from the 20s to 90s yearly and so far I have seen no damage. I hope this helps!

[CP5670]

A few people here have reported seeing unusually widespread cracks in their bricks on built models. I don't know what caused it but cold temperatures are one thing that comes to mind. Heat on the other hand has definite consequences with the brick grip. There are some posts on it here.

Short-term exposure (a few days) shouldn't have any effect in either case though.

New, unopened sets are in little danger because they haven't been handled very much (no scratches) and are still in their sealed polybags (factory humidity). The air in the polybags also act as insulation, slowing down temperature changes with the bricks. The polybags play a part in making sure the pieces don't get damaged on the long trip from the factory to the retail stores. TLG can't afford to use temperature and humidity controlled shipping services.

This is true today since the bags are airtight and sealed, but in the past they used to be perforated and let air in freely. I've had some cases of messed up bricks due to that.

Edited December 17, 2010 by CP5670

[Karto]

From my experience:

My collection remained in an uninsulated ceiling for about 15 years. During summer, the environment used to be a sauna: over 80% humidity and temperatures exceeding 50°C. During the winter, it was freezing but not lower than -5°C. These conditions haven't altered any piece at all: No cracks, no broken parts, no discoloration (there wasn't direct sun light), no altered shapes, still shiny pieces, stickers remained perfect, etc. There was only some dust on the most exposed parts - which is easy to remove and doesn't affect parts either. Also, I wanted to keep my Black Seas Barracuda built, so I left it on top of a box, without any cover. I cleaned it carefully in 2007 and it's now in mint condition (even the sails). The only thing that did slightly change, was the shape of some boxes. So I would say, avoid direct sun light, strong indirect sun light, water and smoke and you should be fine.

Note: This is about pieces from the late 70s up to the early 90s. I'm not sure if the cheaper and lighter ABS they use these days would withstand the same conditions, but I guess it should be similar (I hope they do have some Quality Assurance comparing ranges over the years...). One thing seems clear from what I heard lately: stickers don't. Even in a moderate environment, they might peel off.

[Mr Meleca]

ok,ok,ok.......

I have access to ultrafreezers, -80ºC.

I´ll put some pieces, assembled and not assembled, and in water. (I really do not want to do this, oh my sacred pieces!)

I´ll show the results in few days.

By the way, we conserve human samples in that temperature, inside plastic boxes. I don´t know what kind of plastic it is but they are similars to Lego. high quality (and expensive), and the temperature does not change the material. There are some stickers that are made for this temperatures (very very expensive) that does not change, even loose the glue...

wait few days...(or send me some pieces for the experiment!!!!)

[Cpt Smileyface]

In my experience with extreme temperatures, it's not short term exposure that causes damage, but cycles between hot and cold. I keep a small Lego model on the dash of my car. Even after a hot summer day in the sun, or a cold winter night, the bricks are just fine. However, over time, they've started to loose their clutching power. The bricks expand and contract ever so slightly with changes in temperature. One change doesn't seem to make much difference, but lots of heat cycles add up.

[Davey]

In my experience with extreme temperatures, it's not short term exposure that causes damage, but cycles between hot and cold. I keep a small Lego model on the dash of my car. Even after a hot summer day in the sun, or a cold winter night, the bricks are just fine. However, over time, they've started to loose their clutching power. The bricks expand and contract ever so slightly with changes in temperature. One change doesn't seem to make much difference, but lots of heat cycles add up.

It's not the heat/cold cycle that is doing that. It's the UV radiation breaking down the butadiene portion of the ABS and making it more brittle. UV is one thing ABS does not handle well.

-Davey

[Cpt Smileyface]

It's not the heat/cold cycle that is doing that. It's the UV radiation breaking down the butadiene portion of the ABS and making it more brittle. UV is one thing ABS does not handle well.

-Davey

That makes sense, thanks for the information. I'd always assumed it was heat cycles until now.

[freakwave]

In my opinion storing it in sub-zero (°C) temperature would not do much harm if it stays within the beforementioned ranges (above -25°C)

During winter I am building now since the 3rd season a snow-groomer and I need to check its functions in "live" condition. DOing so I observe that after a few minutes the bricks seems to loose their flexibility. Especially in the drivetrain you notice (hear) this, slipping gears etc. So better not too much stress in sub-zero! Those slips are the reason why I am building the third year on it...trying to fix them and make a stiffer chassis...

fW

[Vindicare]

If this is better suited in another thread, then please, merge away. I searched and couldn't find an appropriate place.

I have my Lego in their sets in ziploc bags in those big plastic bins, in a storage locker. My question/concern is, is it bad to have them in there? Will the elements(heat and cold, not Lego bricks ) mess up the bricks, figs or stickers? Would keeping them in my garage be better? I'm bait worried now that they may slowly be "dying" over there...

[davee123]

Are they assembled? If they're assembled, and if the heat gets too high, it MIGHT create some minor warping and loss of clutch power. But if the locker's temperature controlled, you should be OK. If they're not assembled, you probably have to worry about heat even less, because your elements probably aren't under as much stress. Either way, probably not anything major.

Generally, you want to avoid light (really UV light) and excessive humidity. Oh, and cigarette/cigar smoke. Heat alone generally doesn't do much-- we've had LEGO up to 120F or so, and it's been fine. Same with cold-- even in sub-zero temperatures we haven't had any problems.

However, that doesn't address stickers. I honestly have no idea how applied stickers are affected by heat/cold. I haven't heard of anyone having problems with them, but it's seldom raised as an issue, so I'm not really sure.

DaveE

Edited August 5, 2011 by davee123

[Vindicare]

Are they assembled? If they're assembled, and if the heat gets too high, it MIGHT create some minor warping and loss of clutch power. But if the locker's temperature controlled, you should be OK. If they're not assembled, you probably have to worry about heat even less, because your elements probably aren't under as much stress. Either way, probably not anything major.

Generally, you want to avoid light (really UV light) and excessive humidity. Oh, and cigarette/cigar smoke. Heat alone generally do much-- we've had LEGO up to 120F or so, and it's been fine. Same with cold-- even in sub-zero temperatures we haven't had any problems.

However, that doesn't address stickers. I honestly have no idea how applied stickers are affected by heat/cold. I haven't heard of anyone having problems with them, but it's seldom raised as an issue, so I'm not really sure.

DaveE

That's good to hear. They're in pieces in ziploc bags. I'm thinking the stickers may start to peel off/crack, but it sounds like they would be ok.

[22kane]

The stickers will be affected by the moisture from the excessive hot and cold temperatures. It would probably take years but it can ruin them.

I have also noticed that connected bricks in exsessive heat become very loose in time and don't seem to ever go back to that tight fit. As long as the bricks are all broken down you should be ok. I would check your stickered bricks from time to time though.

[brick god]

So I went camping this weekend and left a moc in progress in my car. The temperature outdoors was over 100 degrees so it had to be almost double that in the car. The moc was in a sealed plastic box and the pieces in zip lock bags. When I got home to work on it, the moc basically crumbled in my hands. Im not talking about into dust, but the pieces hardly connect, lost its clutch power. Its so weird and unfortunate. I dont like to glue pieces so now im rebuilding the moc with brand new pieces.

Has this ever happened to anyone?

Is there a remedy I can use to recover the clutch power lost?

Thanks ahead!

Edited August 9, 2012 by CopMike
Fugazi changed title legos to LEGO ;), I clearified that the bricks lost the clutch power

[Fugazi]

If your MOC has been exposed to extreme heat perhaps the parts might have softened slightly and deformed under the weight of the MOC? Were your loose pieces also damaged?

It hasn't happened to me before but perhaps you can have a look at the temperature extremes topic for hints.

[Jedi master Brick]

I belive this is a problem TLG take seriously when designing sets. They check how well the set keeps together in an oven to see how well it would keep on a window sill on a sunny day. The only thing I can suggest is not to leave Lego out in the heat for a long time.

[davee123]

That's the first I've ever heard of this-- I don't think it's just the temperature-- we've had bricks kept in cars many times in sweltering heat, with no ill effects. I *have* heard of pieces losing their clutch power in extreme, prolonged humidity, but if they were in a sealed plastic box, and within ziploc bags inside, it seems unlikely that the humidity would get in there very rapidly.

DaveE

[Writers Blocks]

I had this happen with a Stikfas figure once.

[brick god]

Depending on the piece in the loose pieces bag, some were effected as well. There is no turning back now I am almost finished rebuilding it. Though I have read somewhere where someone had a similar incident and ended up just gluing all the pieces together. I cant do that, the pieces deserve proper burial:( Oh well you live and you learn.

If your MOC has been exposed to extreme heat perhaps the parts might have softened slightly and deformed under the weight of the MOC? Were your loose pieces also damaged?

It hasn't happened to me before but perhaps you can have a look at the temperature extremes topic for hints.

[splatman]

Wait a few days, or weeks, or even a month, then test with unaffected bricks. They might get their clutch strength back while resting. The opposite of how clothes get wrinkled when left in a heap. Failing that, IDK. I'm not shure burying them is the answer.

[Tontus]

I have 3 CMFs on my dashboard and all 3 don't stay on the stands if I turn too fast, and the headgear no longer stay on if I turn the fig upside down. There is definitely something about the heat in a car. Kind of reminds me of an episode of Mythbusters where they "proved" that lighters left in cars won't explode. I've had that happen to 2 lighters over the years, so I'm guessing extreme heat plus direct sunlight makes things really hot and expands the holes? Maybe extreme cold could reverse it.