Brickfest Audio

[Mister Phes]

Do we know how many parts were being used back in the late 80's and early 90's?

[snefroe]

to 15000 or so doesn't refer to the 80's-90's?

[SuvieD]

Hmm? Good thought. Really I can't see the printed parts as being counted as separate like we do. Red 2x2 slope is just that regardless of any printing on it.

I would like to see a list myself of parts there are. As far as brick sizes I know that they have whittled that down greatly. Out of 48 possible unmodified bricks that LEGO has made in the past only 34 are currently used and some of these are really not needed. 2x2x3 or 2x4x3 why not just stack 2x2's and 2x4's? I think they could whittle it down to 7000. He said that they are already down to 8000.

And you will have to remember that many parts come in one single color. Many technic gears and axles and small technic parts in general come in maybe three colors each. Some parts like 1x1 round plates come in almost 20 colors. It should even out somewhere.

If they do increase I hope it is not in stupid parts we don't need. I would like to see a bigger variety in colors like dark blue and dark green or teal and dark tan before we see some new useless parts.

[snefroe]

in any case, the way j describes this software sounds very familiar with the designer software i got from the lego shop a year ago. i instaled it once to see what it was all about but in the end never really used it. however, there were some rather old parts on the list of that software package, like the 6 x 4 blue transparent canopies... things they don't produce anymore. there was also a direct link to the pab shop but that wasn't activated at the time... i'm looking for it, but i can't find it...

[KimT]

Hooray for Vikings continuing.....

As for the 7000 pieces discussion - no matter what we think or believe I am sure that TLC will surprise us.... they usually do either for better or for worse. Let's hope it's for the better this time and that they reduce the amount of <insert that tiresome argument> bricks (hopefully the utter and complete shutdown of Belville) and continue to develop good "basic" sets as developers and designers. - Not forgetting the good themes and perhaps even reinstalling good themes as pirates or enhancing themes like KK/KK2 to be more Classic Castle..... *satis*

KimT

[Mister Phes]

Belville has been around for over 10 years now. It must be a strong contender for one of the longest running LEGO themes by now.

In BimP_13_08_13_05.mp3 @ 32:15:

"We are thriving incredibly with the Belville line in Scandanavian countries [...]"

Maybe that will be enough to ensure their survival...

But @ 32:37:

"So Belville to us in some cases to us like Denmark is actually the single sweetest selling line [...] But there's only one thing you can really buy for the girls outside classic LEGO construction outside of Clkits and that's Belville. And that's what we'll be continuing to do [...] We will try to appeal to the girls through a SYSTEM line/platform and of course the Duplo platform [...]"

So maybe Belville will go and something like Paradisa will take its place. Which would make sense if LEGO is aiming to reduce the number of different types of pieces down to 7000. Besides, I liked Paradisa because so many pieces from the sets could be used for building Imperial Fortresses like the white castle walls which were mostly in the pirate sets but occassionally made appearances in Paradisa, Town and even space once. But never in castle! So therefore they're rarer and more expensive!

[Mister Phes]

- They're returning to a basic system

In BimP_13_08_13_05.mp3 around 31:35 mark:

"Our view is that we will stay with Duplo for pre-school and SYSYEM for in school, we will not build on this what we call this 4+ junior platform because we don't feel that there is a real space that is satisfying for the users between Duplo and SYSTEM. You see that in the City line for instance where we are pushing SYSTEM down to a 5+ range we know that sometimes their parents are buying that for 4+ age boy and that is somewhat problematic but that's the strategy we're introducing. Its always been a strategic issue for us to close that gap but we do it by extending Duplo out and taking some of the SYSTEM boxes down."

Oh that is wonderful news! Oust that hideous 4+ rubbish! That was an insult to the pirates!

LEGO used to do that with SYSTEM - make small basic SYSTEM sets to cater for younger children but in the same theme have larger more and complex sets. I just got a small pirate set with instructions them is written "WARNING: CHOKING HAZARD. Small Parts. Not for children under 3 years." So this indicates the set is suitable for any kid over 3 years and over (or any kid that's intelligent enough not to eat the bricks!) The set is so basic a 3 year old could play and build with it, yet all pieces are SYSTEM pieces and none of that oversized <insert that tiresome argument> crap!

LEGO was getting it right once upon a time, too bad it took a financial crisis to wake up and remember these things that made them successful. Or they could have just listened to me. But NOOOOOO...

[snefroe]

they're getting rid of 4+? that's weird. that stuff is hugely popular in belgium...

it's obvious that tlc is trying to shift her products to the youngest children. there's too much competition with lots of other products in the older age categories, and those categories aren't as profitable as 1-5 age category. but if 4+ gets dumped, aren't we then going to see more <insert that tiresome argument> sets to cover that age category? "they're extending duplo and pushind SYSTEM down"...

i don't think belville is going to fall. it's the only line for girls and i think tlc will try to keep this option open hoping they'll be able to get a better position in that market in future, when they're out of financial trouble... Paradiso would be better because it's basically a part of the city theme but that's not going to happen.

[Mister Phes]

I don't see why LEGO would need to junoirise sets to bridge the gap. Like I wrote a post ago.

LEGO used to do that with SYSTEM - make small basic SYSTEM sets to cater for younger children but in the same theme have larger more and complex sets. I just got a small pirate set with instructions them is written "WARNING: CHOKING HAZARD. Small Parts. Not for children under 3 years." So this indicates the set is suitable for any kid over 3 years and over (or any kid that's intelligent enough not to eat the bricks!) The set is so basic a 3 year old could play and build with it, yet all pieces are SYSTEM pieces and none of that oversized <insert that tiresome argument> crap!

Adding to those statements I believe there are a multitude of ways to design sets for younger children using SYSTEM without resorting to <insert that tiresome argument> pieces. If you stop and thought about it for a few moments you'd probably find countless possibilities.

[xwingyoda]

Oh that is wonderful news! Oust that hideous 4+ rubbish! That was an insult to the pirates!

Amen brother :D ;)

Sne, I don't think pieces will be <insert that tiresome argument> as the new city sets, especially if TLC is cutting down on pieces !!!

This 4+ was a weird line taking parts from all over, there were some small parts in 4+ !!!! So the gap is not that wide with system anyway !!!

And I totally agree on Paradisa !!!! That is a great way to appeal to building girls !!! (clickitts is fun 5 minutes, but that is not really a construction toy per se). Paradisa had great parts !!!!!

[Mister Phes]

Wasn't the intention of the 4+ sets to include those bigger <insert that tiresome argument> pieces in order to make the design simpler? Whearas if they'd been made soley of smaller pieces it would have been harder for younger children to build?

That might as well be rhetorical question now because it obviously didn't work and 4+ is being scrapped altogether. I am very pleased to hear this!

[snefroe]

i think the choking hazrd is exacly why they're going to juniorise the sets if these sets are intended for a younger audience. sure, these sets could be a good toy for 3 year olds, however, the age criteria doesn't have anything to do with quality of design. the system sets aren't marketed for 3 year olds, not because the design would be too complicated, but because of the choking hazard. the way to cover that problem is to make pieces bigger. i think that's why tlc is expanding duplo even further to quite a few subthemes, themes like airport, ferrari, trains,... the minifig world used to be the heart of the lego catalogue, that isn't the case anymore...

i don't see 4+ in the 2005 catalogue. is it already gone then?

[KimT]

I've been talking to a few of my friends who's got children (as in girls) and they all agree that Clickits is a mistake - the pieces are too small and the entire idea is absurd. But they also agree that System is the best and that they buy sets which have big bricks so that their children can actually handle the bricks. I haven't heard of any who buys 4+ sets - so I have no idea about it selling or not. Hopefully not. I accidentily bought 10 brown barrels sized 4+, believing them to be standard system size.... Thanks... Now what am I going to do with these gargantuan barrels...I know fill them with black powder and blow them up... |:|

KimT

[Mister Phes]

Can anybody give me a rough figure on how many children have choked on SYSTEM LEGO in the past 10 years...?

3 year olds are irrelevant to SYSTEM anyway. The point I was making is LEGO recommends the bare minimum age for a SYSTEM user is 3 years old (thought at traditioally 7 years is recommended). They intend to make SYSTEM sets suitable for 5 year olds in order to eliminate 4+ LEGO and close the gap between Duplo and SYSTEM. By 5 years old children should be old enough not to choke on SYSTEM pieces so therefore there is need to juniorise the pieces on account of them being a choking hazard.

Why would they need to make SYSTEM pieces bigger if LEGO is satisfied they are are suitable [at the size they already are] for 3 year olds? So obvously they must be suitable for 5 year olds as well at their present size. Unless of course there have been numerous 5 year olds choking upon SYSTEM pieces in recent times, and something must be done immediately!

Unless by junioirisation you mean expanding Duplo into other areas...

[Mister Phes]

I accidentily bought 10 brown barrels sized 4+, believing them to be standard system size.... Thanks... Now what am I going to do with these gargantuan barrels...I know fill them with black powder and blow them up... |:|

KimT

Actually those barrels first appeared in the very SYSTEM Western theme. If you don't want them I can find a use for them. Afterall, throughout history there have been much bigger barrels than the standard 44 gallons. Just image how much grog you could put in the real big ones!

[SuvieD]

Look at the current duplo castle line. This line is easily still enjoyable for 4-6 year olds. I think this is what they mean for stretching the lines. By 6-8 they will switch to the new rc train, city or bionicle and then 10-12 they can enjoy every theme through Technic and train.

I just hope they expand and create a theme for 13-18 that is a true model theme or maybe a 13-99 adult theme that is a collectible miniatures like game based on LEGO made characters and adventure (not war) roleplaying with minifigures and weapons. This would be a great excuse to create new weapons, utinsels and other gear for minifigures while appealling to teenage boys and adults who are fans of table top games and roleplaying.

[snefroe]

i think what's going to happen, or already is, is this:

two basic platforms: duplo and system

having the same subthemes

sharing the same parts in some cases

first platform is for 1-5 year olds; second platform 4-7 year olds

so the 4+ was a bit sandwished between the two and didn't really get a decent profile, so they got rid of it.

this means they need to fill the gap by stretching both surviving platforms, integrate them more or less... this means both platforms have to grow even closer to each other, meaning, moving more large bricks to system and perhaps moving parts from system to duplo.

i remember a news article a while back about lego and tru, i believe, saying that TLC was going to focus on smaller children in future, because there was more money to be made there... this means, as a worse case scenario, more duplo, less system

i don't think they'll try and set up a line for older kids, too much effort, too much investment, market not big enough...

[xwingyoda]

just a quick thought here guys: I think that a LOT of usefull parts especially food, accessories will be left over by the production team !!! which is stupid because they already have the appropriate molds !!!

However, since the Belville sells well, TLC might still produce those cool parts !!!!!

[snefroe]

just a quick thought here guys: I think that a LOT of usefull parts especially food, accessories will be left over by the production team !!! which is stupid because they already have the appropriate molds !!!

However, since the Belville sells well, TLC might still produce those cool parts !!!!!

is belville minifig sized, yoda?

[xwingyoda]

just a quick thought here guys: I think that a LOT of usefull parts especially food, accessories will be left over by the production team !!! which is stupid because they already have the appropriate molds !!!

However, since the Belville sells well, TLC might still produce those cool parts !!!!!

is belville minifig sized, yoda?

Well Sne, the parts are regular System parts (with some "<insert that tiresome argument>" parts). Only the Belville MF are not system scaled more or less !!! These sets do have awsome parts ;) !!!!!!

[Mister Phes]

However, since the Belville sells well, TLC might still produce those cool parts !!!!!

Some of these pieces which were too noot <insert that tiresome argument> would have to make appearances in future themes, would they not? Especially if they're popular.