Star Wars: A rant about the prequels

[Siegfried]

NOTE: I've been writing this for a while and it's clear it will never be perfect so I decided to "finish" it today.

As a kid I used to read the novels of the Star Wars movies over and over again. In fact, my first novel I ever read or owned was Return of the Jedi. I probably have read the novels to Episode 4-6 twice as much as I have seen them. Possibly for this reason I was sure of what the Clone Wars would consist of; Jedi defending against an invasion of Jedi-wanna-bes dressed like Boba Fett, otherwise known as Mandalorian Warriors. My thought was that these guys for some reason (probably general evilness) wanted the Jedi gone, and decided that the best way to do this was to make an army that emulated Jedi powers via technology. (For example the jet pack gives the power of Jedi jumps, the cables give the power of force manipulation, the helmet gives the power of Jedi senses and communication...) Interestingly, probably because I read the books from an early age (about 9) the name "Clone Wars" meant nothing to me. I think I thought it was a location! Even when I learnt what the word meant to me I didn't think too much about it. It wasn't until the 90s while reading the Zahn series the concept of cloning an army was blatantly pointed out to me within the Star Wars universe that it all clicked for me. For those that haven't read the Timothy Zahn books, there are two cloned Jedis in the series, one a Luke, cloned from his hand lost at Cloud City, and the other a older Jedi Master. (It is rumoured that it was going to be Obi-Wan but Lucas objected.) This then gave me the final piece in the puzzle; the "Clones" in the Clone Wars were Jedis, who replicated themselves to counteract the superior numbers that the Mandalorians had. Eventually the Jedi win, but then the Clones go bad, leaving the way open for Palpatine to strike...

Thus when I at last saw Episode 1 I was quite excited... and was thus very disappointed by the end when it was clear that my version was not what we were going to see. Droid armies?! As much as I love robots and A.I., it simply doesn't fit in with the established universe. Why didn't the Rebels use droids then? They obviously had no shortage of money; look at their vast transport fleet, base and how well equipped Hoth was. Any way, here's my rough version of what it could have been...

_______________________

Episode 1. The Mandalorians attack the Republic by surprise. They take about a third of all worlds and it is clear that they will win. While assisting Tatooine defend itself from the invasion Obi-Wan (a padawan of Yoda at the time who is about 30) notices a talented fighter pilot who has been instrumental at holding off the Mandalorians. In one of the lulls he meets the pilot, Anakin (aged about 15), and realises that he is incredibly strong in the force. (He just senses it; no blood test is required.) Obi-wan ask him to leave when the Republic forces retreat to Alderaan and become a Jedi. Anakin's younger brother, Owen, begs him to stay and help out on the farm, but there never was much of a farmer in Anakin.

15 years pass...

Episode 2. The Jedi are losing the war and they decide that the only solution is to clone the surviving (around 1000) Jedis with Sparti Cloning tanks. Only Master Yoda refuses, and Jedi Obi-Wan and padawan Anakin out of respect follow his lead. Master Yoda is banished from the order by his decision as an example and isn't seen again. Before he goes though, he tells Obi-Wan of his planned destination. At this time it is also decided that the Jedi cannot be used as local security so Corruscant forms an Imperial Defence Force under the lead of Senator Palpatine. The Cloned Jedis are sent out and eventually win, but when they learn from Palpatine that they will be destroyed now that their work is done they rebel. The last stage of the Clone Wars has begun...

15 years pass (To save people the maths, Obi-Wan is about 60 now and Anakin is about 45. They act and look like they are 35 and 30.)

Episode 3. The Clone Wars is coming to a close. The Jedi have been decimated (less than 100 out of 10,000 remain) and the universe is a much fragmented place. Palpatine expresses his concern over this and the Jedis, knowing there is no choice, support moves for the Corruscant defence force to be expanded. Due to his expanding respect he is named head of the Council of the Republic. At this point Palpatine tells Anakin many half truths about the governments of many worlds, and he becomes his assassin in an effort to help stabilise the Republic. One of his mission takes him to Alderaan to kill Bail Organa, but he fails this as he meets a servant who realises what he is there for, and persuades him otherwise. Anakin finds her courage attractive and... er... he boffs her. On his return Palpatine punishes Anakin by sending him to a volcanic planet for another mission. The servant from Alderaan, worried about Anakin, tries to contact him, but can only reach Obi-Wan. Obi-Wan then realises why Anakin has been so distant, goes to Palpatine, and assaults him to find out the truth. Palpatine allows this and tells him what he knows as he feels that Anakin will win. Obi-Wan confronts Anakin, they fight, and Anakin is burnt as a result. Unable to kill his friend, Obi-Wan helps him to a nearby hospital and heads back home. However while he is gone Palpatine tells the Council of Obi-Wans actions, declares himself Emperor, and disbands the Jedi as a useless relic of the past. Obi-Wan fearing for his life starts calling himself Ben and hides on Tatooine to watch over Owen, who he has started to see like a brother he never had. He is eventually found by Bail Organa, who brings news of a pregnant servant who want to find Anakin. Obi-Wan explains what happened and Bail agrees to keep it a secret. However soon after the birth she hears of a new servant of Palpatine called Darth Vader who has been hunting down the remaining Jedi, and she realises what the man she loves has become. She kills herself, and Bail Organa decides to repay the life debt by raising the girl as his own daughter, and send the boy to be care for by Owen.

_______________________

There is substantial supporting evidence for this possible story, but most is from non-100%-canon sources. For example, in the Empire Strikes Back novel, while describing Boba Fett it is said;

"He was dressed a weapon-covered, armoured spacesuit, the kind worn by a group of evil warriors defeated by the Jedi Knights during the clone wars." (End of chapter 9, page 127 of my book.)

Another piece is when Obi-Wan says in episode 4 "I haven't gone by the name Obi-wan, though, since before you were born". While this is trueish, it is only barely true. Additionally, when it is revealed that Obi-wan was in the Clone Wars Luke says "But... that was so long ago". Even though it was only 20 years before and Obi-wan looks at least 40 so it shouldn't be that remarkable. However George constantly changes his mind, and while he claims that he has a magical complete story, I simply don't believe him. But the fact is that there are many contradiction from the various sources. Foe example, for a while it was official that Obi-Wan and Owen were brothers, but it's mostly seen as a mistake now. (If it was true you would have expected some sadness when they died...)

So what are your thoughts? Do you think I am way off?

[Corvus]

I think I'd actually like those movies... especially the idea of Yoda actually being banned, and the Mandalorians, for obvious reasons. It'd be nice to see them kickin' Jedi @$$. Ep. 3 is a little long, though. But hey, I'd see your movies over Lucas' if it isn't mass CGI.

[Siegfried]

Ep. 3 is a little long, though.

Yes. I wrote all of that today. Trying to achieve balance between the "movies" has been delaying me finishing this rant so I decided to just finish it and improve it later. If I revise this I'd probably end the Clone Wars in part 2.

But hey, I'd see your movies over Lucas' if it isn't mass CGI.

Thanks.

[SWMAN]

i think that if I had not seen any of the prequels, your ideas would sound pretty good. But, after seeing the movies, I think yours are a little too out there for me. They are a very interesting perspective on what the movies might have been, but I like the Clone Wars the way Lucas made them.

[M'Kyuun]

Having read the novels as well, I tend to side with your view of things. I expected the Jedi to fight the Mandalorians. I wasn't sure where the clones fit in, but that mystery heightened my anticipation. I never actually associated the clones with the Imperial Army, since the voices of the stormtroopers were different. I never would have associated the Imperial Army with Boba Fett; he was an enigma, and should have remained so IMHO. I also expected the timeline between the Clone Wars and the events of Ep IV to be greater, since Jedi seem to age much more slowly through their intimacy with the force. I'm not familiar with the Obi-Wan and Owen Larrs brotherly connection theory, nor was I familiar with the Anakin burned in Lava story prior to Ep III.

Overall, GL does, and did, change things from his original ideas, some of which were published in the various novelizations. He is ultimately a visual director, otherwise Star Wars would have been just another B-rated movie with a decent story and bad special effects. However, his insistence on creating a more realistic and believable universe set it apart, raising the bar for sci-fi movies thereafter. But it's his visual tastes, too, that I think diminished the prequels; his story was influenced by the fact that he could now realise anything he imagined on the screen. I think the limitations he faced while filming the original trilogy greatly benefitted the overall look and feel of the final films. The prequel films do not have that realistic look b/c they were shot in front of green screens, and the films have a cartoonish feel to them. And so, too, many of the characters, including one very controversial Gungan. In the end, I think maybe GL should have made a kid's movie based on Star Wars incorporating all of the cutesy characters, to get it out of his system, and then, after watching his original films and reviewing his old plot notes, made a darker, more mature prequel trilogy, assisted by a small team of writers to help polish his dialogue, for which GL himself admits he is weak. Harrison Ford dubbed him "the King of Wooden Dialogue" for a reason.

It's interesting to note that George was working with a group of very strong willed, talented young actors ( and Sir Alec Guiness) when he made the originals, and I think they were more free to make dialogue changes , since George was basically an unknown making a sci-fi picture, a genre still condemned as child's fare during the time. He was an undisputed icon when he returned to make the prequels, and I think the actors were far less bold to suggest making changes in their lines, even when they most likely seemed clunky, cheesy, or otherwise unfunny. After all, there were alot of cheesy lines in the originals, but they just seemed to work, and I think the the actors were just grateful to be there and figured GL would strike cinematic gold the second go round. I guess he did, but I know there are still alot of disappointed fans out there who came out of the theatres with a sense of unfulfillment, perhaps bewilderment that the new Star wars just wasn't at all like the old Star Wars for one reason or another. If you're out there reading this, I'd be humbled to count myself among you.

Edited September 3, 2008 by M'Kyuun

[Scouty]

Well, I think I can agree with you on some things and some not.

Bare in mind I haven't read any of the novels you have described.

Your version certainly does sound nice, but in some places is odd. Like how Palpatine becomes Emperor, how Anakin turns to the darkside, how the twins are born (and their mother's love story with Ani), Master Yoda being banished, how Ben goes to Tatooine first for his own safety and then decides to look after Luke, and some other things. I'm sure many people have thought how it would go and are disappointed because it didn't go their way. The prequel story, as it is now, flows quite well, with the exception of plot errors of the Original and Prequel Trilogy.

I think the way it (The Prequels) is now is totally acceptable. Only if George had not relied on Computer graphics so much, the prequels would have been much better.

[snip]

I agree in many of your cases here. Especially with George being limited then and not so in the 90's

[Siegfried]

Thanks to those that read this, and extra thanks to those that commented!

M'Kyuun: Very good rant! I completely agree that the Stormtroopers aren't clones. To me it would be too expensive to clone foot soldiers, only people like Jedis would be economical. But considering the amount of clones that die in the movies it must be rather cheap... Supposedly George has said in one of the commentaries that Stormtroopers are mostly clones and always were meant to be clones, but as you say this doesn't make sense. Besides, I've never heard of a war named after the tools used; places, times, countries, maybe. Should we re-name the Vietnam war "That Chopper War"? It would make more sense that during the "Clone Wars" people were fighting clones...

The timeline issue is one of the biggest problems. I think there needs to be more time, but there can't be because Luke has a fixed age of 18. (On that subject, it's interesting to note that according to the script Leia had an age of 16. Looks like Leia was born first. )

By the way, the Anakin burning scene is described in Jedi. Ben says;

"We fought... your father fell into a molten pit. When your father clawed his way out of that fiery pool. the change had been burned into him forever..." (Chapter 3, Page 64)

A lot of these scenes were filmed, and I hope that they will be re-inserted one day. Many important scenes were chopped from Empire too; there was an entire sub-plot involving the wampas, and it was shown in the early previews.

ImperialScouts: Palpatine's rise is "explained" in the Return of the Jedi book. It goes on about increasing corruption in the Republic, and then it says;

"And so Senator Palpatine had seized the moment. Though fraud, clever promises, and astute political manoeuvring, he'd managed to get himself elected head of the Council. And then though subterfuge, bribery and terror, he'd named himself Emperor" (Chapter 4, Page 69)

I think my version somewhat reflects that line, but I did rush the last "movie". I need to re-work it anyway as I did some more re-reading and realised that it is written (in Return of the Jedi, page 174) that Anakin was married. Darn; I preferred the "wham, bam thank-you ma'am" idea. Anakin never seemed to me to be the type to marry.

As for the Yoda and Ben parts, I have little to support that. The books make it clear (in Return of the Jedi, page 176) that Anakin didn't meet or even know Yoda, and that's one of the hard parts to work in since Ben also states that he was taught by Yoda, and that he trained Anakin. Thus it would make sense only if Yoda was out of the picture in movie 1, but I went for a compromise. As for Ben going to Tatooine first, I did that as I needed time for gestation, but that whole part needs to be re-worked now anyway. I'll post an updated version later.

I have a lot of respect for George Lucas (his contributions to cinema go far beyond his movies), but it's quite clear that Star Wars was made up as he went along. This wouldn't bother me, if it wasn't for the fact that he keeps contradicting other official Star Wars stories. The Heir to the Empire series makes little sense now, and Splinter of the Minds Eye is a complete laugh to read today. For this reason I don't read any Star Wars books anymore; I might as well make up my own stories as they'd be just as official! George needs to assign someone to maintain a book of facts, and no, he isn't qualified.

[Shadows]

George needs to assign someone to maintain a book of facts, and no, he isn't qualified.

Oddly, he has a whole team that does that, but honestly, they've gone to pot since the prequels destroyed their world. George apparently wanted all of the books prior to that to made at least a fair amount of sense. The flaw in the plan was that he hadn't hired anyone to stop him from destroying that. But, to be fair, he always said that anything he didn't film was to be considered non-canon.

Just to share my own views, I never actually planned out the prequels as I thought they simply would never exist. Once the books started, especially the Zahn stuff, I was more than happy with the universe in that form. The books went wrong on their own eventually, but that's another matter.

Episode I didn't really shatter the dream though. The jedi were large in number, Palpatine was plotting and gaining power, people were meeting the right people. It was Episode II that killed it by destroying Boba Fett and all the potential there. I actually had mentally connected Clone Wars and Mandalorians to the point that I pictured a huge army of them. That even fit the books, where you are led to believe that he was just a cop who wanted to go bigger and thought that using the visual impact of an army of extinct but powerful warriors would help instill fear.

The funny thing is, I only mentally created one movie in my mind. Episode III. Here's how it went, all the way down to time.

[00:00-00:20]: Anakin and Obi-Wan on a mission somewhere. They disagree and Obi-Wan finally grows tired of Anakin's insolence. After the mission, which they barely survive, they are called before the Jedi Council and give differing stories about the mishap. The council sides with Obi-Wan and dismissed Anakin from the order. Anakin storms out into the waiting clutches of Palpatine who had been manipulating him privately for a long time, acting as the father he never had. In my version, he might be his real father.

[00:20-00:45]: Obi-Wan is sent to deal with another situation. The specifics are unimportant, but he finds out that Palpatine is behind it. He plans to confront him, but Palpatine is aware and sends Anakin to deal with him. After a prolonged space fight, Obi-Wan crashes on a volcano/lava planet and Anakin chases after.

[00:45-01:00]: Battle. Anakin 'dies' in the lava. Obi-Wan leaves to report the situation to the Jedi, taking Anakin's ship.

[01:00-01:15]: Interchanging scenes of Palpatine travelling, Obi-Wan flying, Padme worrying, Palpatine doing dark deeds, Obi-Wan arriving and approaching the council. Palpatine issues orders. Buildings on Coruscant blow up. Terrorists are blamed and quickly revealed to be the Jedi. Jar Jar falls down a ventilator shaft (it could happen...)

[01:15-02:00]: Black leather. Heavy breathing. Massive death.

[02:00-02:15]: Wrap up. Birth and placement of the twins. Death of Padme. Palpatine declares himself Emperor to fight the Jedi scourge. Crowds cheer. Roll credits.

Honestly, it isn't a well planned plot, but it features what people expected and it gets Vader out there a lot faster and with the right tone. I don't care for the weak, crappy Vader we've been left with. I also don't want to wait until Episode V for him to remember how to fight. It was the weakness of Episode IV... slow pathetic lightsaber fight, horribly weak flying skills.

Can I pull a George and redo episode IV next?

[Pencoin]

That does sound alot better and makes alot more sense. If I had done the prequels I would of had Palpatine corrupting Anakin as a padawan, maybe i'd go into Palpatine realiseing who Anakins father was, If this would of happened it would of helped the Force Unleashed plot as well.

[Doctor Sinister]

The things that bug me:

1) Tatooine. For a galactic backwater, a lot of stuff sure seems to happen there. SW really jumped the shark the moment it went back there a THIRD TIME in episode 1. Furthermore, Vader would surely have sensed Obi-Wan on the planet below as his ship pulverised Leia's transport. But no, there's not even an indication that he gives a stuff which planet he's orbiting around. There are tens of thousands of inhabited worlds in the SW galaxy, would it have killed anyone to feature something NEW? My comments here apply to the expanded universe as well where we routinely revisit Yavin IV like it's on someone's tick list of "cool things to do".

2) C3PO. Was it REALLY necessary to have Anakin (re)build him? What does it add to the plot? NOTHING. It was originally mooted that the Falcon would play a major part in the prequels, I distinctly recall one of the executives saying "you won't BELIEVE who's piloting the Falcon" - but instead it appears only fleetingly in one small scene. I really believe C3PO should have been similarly consigned to a cameo. He does nothing of benefit to justify being in the prequels. To coin a phrase, his appearance is just "fan-wankery".

3) The timeline. Yes, it's too short. Enough said. What's more, the Clone Wars are only fought over a 3-year period - and yet look at the technological advances that happen in that time! OK, so the advances are purely military, the technology is THERE, but suddenly 3 years later we have fleets of MASSIVE star destroyers orbiting Corucscant whereas in the last scenes of the 2nd prequel we had a hastily formed army rushing to battle in ships half the size. Sorry, but anyone who can churn out ships of that size in that kind of quantity wouldn't really need to worry about fighting a war and anyone deluded enough to take them on deserves to get their bums kicked.

4) The Death Star. I really liked the idea that it was built in secret, in the Maw facility, inside a cluster of black holes, devised by Tarkin etc. etc. When I saw the DS appear in episode 2 in that hologram, and it transpired that a bunch of insects had thought it up, I was disappointed. To see the semi-completed DS in episode 3 really annoyed me. Retconning the event and saying it was a prototype of a prototype is all very well, but the film footage implies that it's THE Death Star. Sorry, but any film that relies on a bunch of guys sitting in a corner "correcting" the events is fundamentally flawed. A film should be self-contained, it shouldn't NEED outside explanation. So as far as I'm concerned, that it THE Death Star being built. And there's the problem...it takes TWENTY YEARS for it to be built. And yet the DSII took about 3 or 4. So...what happened there? If the DSII could be built that fast, then why not the DSI? Especially given my point 3 above - this is NOT a Republic/Empire starved of resources. Again, a lack of explanation and consistency annoys the heck out of me.

I'm sure there's more, but I've got to put myself away in my box for the moment.

Dr. S.

[hewkii9]

This wouldn't bother me, if it wasn't for the fact that he keeps contradicting other official Star Wars stories. The Heir to the Empire series makes little sense now, and Splinter of the Minds Eye is a complete laugh to read today. For this reason I don't read any Star Wars books anymore; I might as well make up my own stories as they'd be just as official! George needs to assign someone to maintain a book of facts, and no, he isn't qualified.

I much prefer the Zahn books to the prequels - especially Outbound Flight.

[01:15-02:00]: Black leather. Heavy breathing. Massive death.

[02:00-02:15]: Wrap up. Birth and placement of the twins. Death of Padme. Palpatine declares himself Emperor to fight the Jedi scourge. Crowds cheer. Roll credits.

Honestly, it isn't a well planned plot, but it features what people expected and it gets Vader out there a lot faster and with the right tone. I don't care for the weak, crappy Vader we've been left with. I also don't want to wait until Episode V for him to remember how to fight. It was the weakness of Episode IV... slow pathetic lightsaber fight, horribly weak flying skills.

Ooh that sounds good, I wished there was at least one scene in RoTS where Vader gets to go on a rampage.

[5150 Lego]

Although i've never read any of the books you meantioned, i can see your point. But i think this proves just how hard the the job of the writers real is.

Being a huge fan of preety much anything (espeacaily a story line with alot of history, and multiple stories) one eventually plans out in the mind on how they if they had the opertunity, to bring the said story to life. Weather it be a book, or on the big screen. If its not portrayed how we see it in our mind, then it can become a big let down. This is one of the problems when you become a big fan of somthing.

Problem is everyone is going to see,as well as interpet things (in the case the books) differnet than others. This is evendent by the responses in this thread. Some agreed with points and your interpentation, while others thought thatsome parts didn't make sence, or would wish to change out parts of the story to suite what they "got out" of the books so to speak.

Is this wrong? Absolutly not. Everyone is going to see, or what to see a story writen/represented a certain way. And there's nothing wrong with that.

Personally, i felt everything after the first 3 (or 4, though 6) star wars movies just didn't hold water. Everthing aboutthem just screamed fake, and it almost seemed like they were just trying to hard. 4 though six had a very real feeling because for the most part,.. everything was real. No CGI ships or battle scenes. No CGI characters. No battle/fight scenes filmed in front of a green screen. They used models for all the ships. Animtronics for all the alien charcaters. The characters them selfs might have been people in big rubber suits, but at least they were really there. The orignal Star Wars was without a doubt completly ahead of its time. Personally, i can't think of to many films that can compare with speacail effects, or a well writen story.

[M'Kyuun]

Lot's of good grumbles in this thread.

C3PO and R2-D2 really had no reason to be in any of the prequels, save for maybe a glimpse of them entering the Tantive IV with Capt Antilles on Alderaan, unaware of the fate that would befall them 18 or so years down the road. That would have been enough "fan-wankery" for me. The way GL introduced them into Ep I felt, like nearly every aspect of the prequels, very forced and cheap and devoid of significance. They were there just to be there with no other real purpose. Many of the other original characters had no character. There were no Boba Fetts to speak of...those characters who, in merely one or two scenes, etch themselves indelibly on one's mind as being incredibly cool. Heck, even Salacious Crumb, the hysterically giggly critter eyeballing Jabba's tail in RoTJ had more character than most of the characters throughout Eps I-III, which is pretty disappointing considering he was a muppet. Somewhere, the fires of inspiration dimmed, and I think it may largely be due to the fact that Mr. Lucas is now the undisputed boss and few will question his ideas or call him out when something just doesn't work. I envy GL his creativity and storytelling ability...SW has, at its core, a pretty good story. It's not Shakespeare, but for its time, it was much deeper and far more engaging than alot of similar fare. Nobody saw the climax of Empire coming...and it's still quoted and parodied to this day. There's nothing in any of the prequels like that, and few lines worth quoting. Finally, the actors really made the characters theirs in the originals...they are memorable and likeable, either for what they said, did, or how they were presented: Sandpeople. Jawas. Lobot. Mon Mothma. Lando's copilot on the Falcon. The Rancor keeper crying over his dead friend. On and on, minor characters that had more character than their limited screen time allowed.

How many characters can you name from the prequels that are like that...that made you care for them or like them or want to know more about them? Honestly, Ewan's Obi-Wan and Ian's Palpatine are my consistently favorite characters throughout the prequels. The only other characters that stood out to me for their unique coolness were the Kaminoans. Maul was cool, but he felt more like a gimmick to keep your attention..he had no character, just amazing skill.

More than anything else, however, the breaks in continuity really spoil the prequels for me. I really had few preconceptions going in; I liked the OT alot and hoped for more of the same. Instead, I got a very pretty movie that felt hollowly like Star Wars. I mean, the names were there for the characters and it looked like Star Wars, albeit in technicolor on steroids, but something was different; it felt wrong...like someone else had written the prequels with both knowledge and disregard for the original movies. It didn't gel to me then when it was fresh, and still doesn't. To date, I still do not own any of the prequels, although I saw each in the theatre multiple times, b/c the fan reaction for these movies is just awesome to be a part of, and SW was meant to be seen on the big screen.

Edited September 4, 2008 by M'Kyuun

[Privateer]

There are a lot of good ideas in this thread; many that are better than the ideas in the prequels. Sinner, I liked reading your conception of how the prequels could have played out. An army of Mandalorians would have been quite a spectacle to behold. Also, I think that Episode III needed to have Vader actually hunting down and killing Jedi. After all the teasing, what we got was admittedly a very dark and atmospheric transformation scene that was ruined with melodrama. Disappointing.

While I have never read any of the novelizations of the movies, I did know about Obi-Wan supposedly being Owen's brother and Anakin's infamous lava demise. What's interesting is that I once read a disillusioned fan's description of how he envisioned the Jedi while they serving the Republic. He saw them as wearing armor, since they undoubtedly faced danger in guarding the galaxy. When he saw Episode I, he was disappointed that they just wore clothing similar to what Obi-Wan wore while he was in hiding on Tatooine. Not impressive for 1,000+ year old order.

For me personally, I think the prequels failed in capturing the old spirit in the visuals of the original trilogy. George really messed up with the story, but also with the "feel" of the movies. It just wasn't the same. We can only wonder how they might have turned out in more capable and reverent hands...

[Corvus]

I think Douglas Adam's quote about Hitchhiker's sums up Lucas' problems pretty well:

"The hostory of The Hitchhiker's Guide to The Galaxy is now so complicated that every time I tell it I contradict myself, and whenever I do get it right I'm misquoted. (...) Anything that is put down here is, as far as I'm concerned, wrong for good."

[Scouty]

I think Douglas Adam's quote about Hitchhiker's sums up Lucas' problems pretty well:

"The hostory of The Hitchhiker's Guide to The Galaxy is now so complicated that every time I tell it I contradict myself, and whenever I do get it right I'm misquoted. (...) Anything that is put down here is, as far as I'm concerned, wrong for good."

It does

[Siegfried]

This has turned out far better than I thought.

ImperialShadows: Yes I have heard that he has a team for continuity, but I find it hard to believe that they do much. Perhaps the mistake is having a team; one dedicated person (with an assistant or two for minor details) would be good enough. Pick any Star Wars fan at random and they would do a better job. I have a friend who is a huge Star Wars fan and he knows about 100 times more than me with the new movies as he plays the table-top war game. He'd be a great choice! Talking to him though highlights the silly situation of the Star Wars story. Movies are the undisputed "truth", and when there are contradictions you should refer to the newest movie. Books and comics are to be seen as secondary truths, unless they are contradicted by the movies. I have no idea where "fact" books come in, but I suspect they are secondary as well...

The Zahn books were very good. I never liked Luke until I read those books. He always came across as a whiner who got lucky, Zahn fleshed out the character nicely and highlighted that even without the force he was impressive. I can't recommend these books enough. (Same other books by Zahn, especially the Conquerors_Trilogy) I didn't read any of the other novels as they didn't seem as well written. Incidentally, I found a reference that says how Joruus C'baoth was supposed to be a cloned Obi-Wan but was changed. The reason given is vague; it says "When it became apparent that such a direction was not possible".

I agree about Epidode I. Many insulted it, but my only major objection was the choice of Anakins age. Episode II was where the story went wrong for me, but I must confess that I still like it as a "scene movie". Some of the sequences are stunning, and Ewan McGregor's performance is incredible considering most of his scenes has little or no real actors or sets. I find III unwatchable, the highlight to me, as a scene, is the Order 66 part. It's beautiful in a sad way. I think your Episode III would have been much better, and you aren't the only one that suspects Palpatine is Anakins father; it's a better story any way. (By the way, there isn't an official death of Jar Jar yet... and no, Robot Chicken sadly doesn't count.)

It is funny how bad that fight in Episode IV is. It's one of the scenes that made the movie at the time, but in hind sight it's pretty lame. Moral of the story? Old person vs tall body builder was probably not a good choice. The best Jedi fight in the series for me was Darth Maul... but he was too good and he made the others look silly.

Doctor Sinister: The problem is that Owen Lars is from Tatooine so it's hard to not start there. There has to be a reason why he was chosen, and it's clear that he knows the truth. But I agree that it makes the opening scene in IV odd. C3PO is another matter. There's no need for him to be in the prequels at all; a walk-on would have been good enough. I also completely agree with you about the Death Star. That short scene also kicks dents in some expanded universe stories too for no good reason.

hewkii9: I still have to read Outbound Flight. Does it fit in with the books or the prequels? Or does it some how manage to do both?

5150 Lego: It is hard to meet fans expectations. "Snakes on a plane" is a good example of trying too hard to do so.

M'Kyuun: I don't like Return of the Jedi that much, but that Rancor keeper scene is one of my favourites. There were a lot of good actors in the prequels, but they weren't given chance to show it. There's this great part in the behind the scenes with the Jango actor, Temuera Morrison, where he says "So what's happening today George? Any dialog?".

Privateer: As much as I hate to say it, what Luke wears in Return of the Jedi, is described in the book as "The Robes of a Jedi Knight". I think it's a silly costume, but that wasn't changed.

Mr. Mandalorian: I've never heard that quote but I wish George said it rather than Douglas. Hitchhiker's was supposed to be nonsense after all. Nitpicking its story is as silly as questioning why Lister is on a suspended platform while painting the outside of Red Dwarf...

[Doctor Sinister]

He saw them as wearing armor, since they undoubtedly faced danger in guarding the galaxy. When he saw Episode I, he was disappointed that they just wore clothing similar to what Obi-Wan wore while he was in hiding on Tatooine. Not impressive for 1,000+ year old order.

This is a good point. In episode IV Obi-Wan is simply wearing desert clothing, like everyone else on Tatooine. And then the prequels come along and desert clothing is suddenly standard Jedi attire.

1) Someone clearly got confused along the way.

2) This is stupid since Obi-Wan is meant to be in HIDING - given the amount of "scum and villainy" present on Tatooine, it won't be long before someone sells him out to the Empire.

Dr. S.

Doctor Sinister: The problem is that Owen Lars is from Tatooine so it's hard to not start there. There has to be a reason why he was chosen, and it's clear that he knows the truth. But I agree that it makes the opening scene in IV odd. C3PO is another matter. There's no need for him to be in the prequels at all; a walk-on would have been good enough. I also completely agree with you about the Death Star. That short scene also kicks dents in some expanded universe stories too for no good reason.

Point taken re' Lars - although with a little imagination, GL could have contrived it so that Lars had also "exiled" himself to Tatooine to look after Luke - just as Obi-Wan had. Visiting Tatooine in 5 out of 6 films is just lazy, self-indulgent, lazy, thoughtless, lazy, fan-wankery and lazy. Oh, and it's lazy.

Dr. S.

[Pencoin]

I agree about Epidode I. Many insulted it, but my only major objection was the choice of Anakins age. Episode II was where the story went wrong for me, but I must confess that I still like it as a "scene movie". Some of the sequences are stunning, and Ewan McGregor's performance is incredible considering most of his scenes has little or no real actors or sets. I find III unwatchable, the highlight to me, as a scene, is the Order 66 part. It's beautiful in a sad way. I think your Episode III would have been much better, and you aren't the only one that suspects Palpatine is Anakins father; it's a better story any way. (By the way, there isn't an official death of Jar Jar yet... and no, Robot Chicken sadly doesn't count.)

But Palpatine isn't Anakins father, close though his actual father is Darth Plagueis. If Palpantine found out about this that would be an even better storyline, maybe he did find out?

[Siegfried]

But Palpatine isn't Anakins father, close though his actual father is Darth Plagueis. If Palpantine found out about this that would be an even better storyline, maybe he did find out?

Well that's only as "official" as the Clone Wars being Jedis vs the Mandalorians . George might forget about this or change his mind. Until then I'll try to forget the nature of Anakins conception.

[hewkii9]

hewkii9: I still have to read Outbound Flight. Does it fit in with the books or the prequels? Or does it some how manage to do both?

It fits right it with other books - introduces Thrawn, C'baoth, forshadows the Yuuzhan Vong a bit--but I doubt it fits in with the movies - it's set 5 years after Phantom Menace and there's probably something going on with Jar Jar that George Lucas'd rather take precedence, and a fair portion of it has Anakin and Obi-Wan on Outbound Flight - they leave before the end, though.

[Siegfried]

It fits right it with other books - introduces Thrawn, C'baoth, forshadows the Yuuzhan Vong a bit--but I doubt it fits in with the movies - it's set 5 years after Phantom Menace and there's probably something going on with Jar Jar that George Lucas'd rather take precedence, and a fair portion of it has Anakin and Obi-Wan on Outbound Flight - they leave before the end, though.

Thanks. I'll have to find, buy and read it. In that order too... but in my younger days I did read a few novels in a book store.