Change in the Knight's Torsos.

[SWMAN]

I have read multiple posts and topics about how people are not too keen on the change of the torso's. I do not really like them, but luckily I am only focusing on the Crownies vs. Skellies, so I am only getting the old ones. I think the main problem is that they don't match the other ones and for me look a little too formal and not like regular soldiers. What do you guys think about them?

[Matteo Kenobi]

I think one could work with it, but I know for people who collected tons of the old ones they are pretty dissapointed, bit if you are big into the armies, just consider it as two different legions of Knights. I think they are here to stay, and a change back would only anger more people.

[Faramir]

I didn't much like them at first, but now I kind of do. I feel like it adds some good variety, and looks more classic than the mail armor torso. If you think about it, (or from what I know), soldiers would not always wear their armor, but sometimes just the kind of shirts they give them now, with the Crownie emblem but no armor.

But if they were to change again... oh, now that'd be bad...

[blueandwhite]

I'm all for variety.

I actually like the third torso. It has a classic feel to it and helps integrate the new crownies well with earlier castle lines. Don't forget that for much of the middle ages surcoats (displaying a knight's coat-of-arms) were worn over top of any armour or chain mail. While I like the other torso prints as well, I don't see the problem with the newer ones (which actually look better IMO). If you have an issue with the new torsos, why not treat those figs as squires or heralds? I only wish we had some new (human) factions as the Crown knights are getting pretty repetitive on the whole.

Edited October 7, 2008 by blueandwhite

[frogstudio]

I really like having different torsos within the same faction. Makes it more realistic to me. Remember, middle ages came before industrialization, so the most probable thing would be that you would have a wide variaty of uniforms within the same army... Just my two cents. :)

[Dark_Avenger]

I arranged my soldiers so that the old torsos serve as my archers and standard troops, and the new torsos are what I have figures wear under the silver armor pieces so that they make up a better-protected faction to serve as castle guards. Personally I think the variety is good - royal tunics!

[dj2005]

I'm a fan of the new torso print (not that the old ones were bad). Like Dark_Avenger, I have the minifigs with the new torso as higher grade guards.

Edited October 7, 2008 by dj2005

[KimT]

My guess is that you're talking about these 3 torsos:

Why do you think there's been a change?

Are we even sure the old one is gone for good?

Maybe they're just giving us different torsos like they've done in several Castle themes before this one.

We've seen colorchange on arms, torsos and legs before.

Now they're skilled enough to give us differently printed torsos instead.

Personally I like all 3 of them.

The Dwarves use Viking torsos, noone bugs about that But getting 3 different torsos for the Crownies does

[cagri]

I use the first one for crossbowmen, the second for infantry and I don't use the last one at all. It's not detailed enough.. So yes, it bothers me in some way :)

BTW I don't like dark bley legs either ... Light bley is better

Edited October 7, 2008 by cagri

[Fluyt]

I like all 3 of them, the newest works nicely as an archer or something.

But does it really replace "old" torso's? Because there are 3 "old" torso's in the castle advent calendar.

[SWMAN]

After reading all of these comments, I am more inclined to buy a few to use as a special force to guard the castle. I might pick up a few.

[brickzone]

I like them all. As for which ones to use - I do not like the idea of too much uniformity among the footsoldiers/archers so I mix them. It is only knights that I try to keep a common theme (although even then I'll vary some aspects like plumes). My older castle guys for example, only the Falcons are uniform (cause they look the better for it). The black knights and lions all have different legs, helmets etc., pretty much as collected from the sets - only distinction is crossed axes for lion footsoldiers not archers.

I too like the way the new torso carries on from the old ones. It also looks more like a surcoat, and so I think it lends a better air to the classic torsos too - as one can now imagine them working in the same fashion (wouldn't it be awesome to have a detailed torso like the third castle one, with the colours and emblems of the black falcons, or lion knights?).

[metalandi]

I don't see that as a "change" at all, for me it's just different torsos to mix it more up and have more individuality. There always have been different torsos within the same factions in the past. Regarding the new theme i personally think those are some of the best torsos that have ever been made for the castle theme

[meschepers]

Going by the pics that KimT so graciously added my torsos go like this:

1) Archers.

2) Swordsmen and axemen.

3) Low ranking spearmen of whom I have many of.

As many of the low ranking soldier would be responsible for providing their own arm and equipment in times of war it makes sense that lowest ranking men who are also not formally trained, would have the simplest uniform with the least protection. Archer would need something with some protection but with more mobility to allow for rapidly reloading their bows. And the heavier troops who would man the front lines would need the most protection and would have the shoulder armor along with the mail coat.

[Zorro]

I like them all, but actually the third is my favorite.

These are the uses of them in my (mini)army.

1) Archers and crossbowmen, artillery

2) Infantry (spearmen and swordsmen, some axemen-prison guards

3) ROYAL GUARDS / Unarmoured knights

[Dwarvenlord]

I like all of them, but i make a difference between the troops:

1) archers, c'bowmen, artillery

2) swordsmen, axemen, spearmen etc.

3) along with a halberd and a round helmet from KK1, guards of the crown city!

[Lego12]

Hmmmm...well I like both of the torsos, but the new ones are really cool!

Lego12

[Eilif]

Interesting to see the three torsos right next to each other. In general, I like uniformity, but it is definatley the LEGO way to change castle torsos often. Even in the classic castle times, it seemed that every couple years there was a new torso, or a new faction, or a new....

I think it's nice that this time around they seem to be sticking with the crownies as the only human "soldier" faction and varying the torsos, rather than varying the number of human factions as they did in the old days.

Edited October 7, 2008 by Eilif

[blueandwhite]

I think it's nice that this time around they seem to be sticking with the crownies as the only human "soldier" faction and varying the torsos, rather than varying the number of human factions as they did in the old days.

Really?

I still don't understand the appeal of having lines upon lines of identical soldiers. From a historical POV, itt isn't particularly realistic given that different lords and their supporters would have their own coats of arms. Perhaps somebody could explain to me why having baseplate upon baseplate of medievel clone soldiers is so appealing. I think one of the biggest draws from the earlier lines was that there were several distinct factions; each with their own heraldry and surcoats.

[Eilif]

Really?

I still don't understand the appeal of having lines upon lines of identical soldiers. From a historical POV, itt isn't particularly realistic given that different lords and their supporters would have their own coats of arms. Perhaps somebody could explain to me why having baseplate upon baseplate of medievel clone soldiers is so appealing. I think one of the biggest draws from the earlier lines was that there were several distinct factions; each with their own heraldry and surcoats.

Yup, really,

Tough, I should have been more clear. I'm not one for building huge armies, but as a quasi-former tabletop gamer, I definatey understand the appeal of massed uniformed uniformed troops. As for my earlier comments, I like variety of heraldry, though I don't worry much about historical accuracy. Thus, if given the choice between 3 different factions of people or Crownies, Orks and Dwarves (I don't like skellies) I'd definatley take the later.

Just my opinion, though I confess that I hold this opinion from a position of complacency, having already assembled enough of the old factions to keep me happy.

[SWMAN]

I agree that they need another Human Faction. Either something like the Forestmen, or an evil renegade one.

[Faramir]

I agree with you SWMAN, a more modernized Forestmen faction would be great... imagine armies of people looking just like me!

Then again, if we are getting elves, even if not this year, I would imagine them to be very similar to Forrestmen, so I wouldn't be surprised if we didn't get something like them.

One could call the upcoming peasants a new human group, especially if they begin to appear in more sets.

[ptdapen]

I thought the old infantry torso was better because of the detail, but that doesn't mean that the new one is bad! Usually it depends in what mood I am what role the new torso guys take. Unfortunately for them, they're almost always equal or less than the regular soldiers in terms of strength.

1. Archers, crossbowmen, artillery managers

2. Regular Infantry (Men-at-Arms)

3. Traveling Infantry (for example to the Dwarven Mines), Squires

I actually arrange those guys sometimes to be like a knight's entourage. Extra guys usually go to the lead general, just cause.

On the uniformity issue, I would actually like to have all my soldiers have armor. Big dream, yes, but I would like that. And the helmet would probably be the crossbowman helmet as well, since I like those. The only non-uniformity thing, which is where impulse sets kind of fail, is I like different faces.

Oh, and now I'm officially a citizen :D

[Zorro]

I agree with you SWMAN, a more modernized Forestmen faction would be great... imagine armies of people looking just like me!

Then again, if we are getting elves, even if not this year, I would imagine them to be very similar to Forrestmen, so I wouldn't be surprised if we didn't get something like them.

One could call the upcoming peasants a new human group, especially if they begin to appear in more sets.

Forrestmen or Elves, they are both as good for me. They would look about the same since Lego minifigs don't have ears , so the Elves wouldn't look like real Elves anyway...

If Elves were chosen, I would want Elves from the Lord of The Rings trilogy, not the ones from Warcraft or alike.

I want them to be "noble", with Ents and animals like Giant Eagles as their allies. The Orcs are a natural adversary of them, TLC wouldn't have to invent any other IMHO.

BTW: a little something to know:

ORCS are direct descendants from the Elves !

The first Orcs were Elves that were continiously tortured on the most sadistical ways possible for very long times...they became crazy and with evil magic of the Elderly Demons of the dark side, they were converted into servants for them (and so were their children). This comes from the books of Tolkien, not from my imagination.

Edited October 8, 2008 by zorro3999

[SWMAN]

I don't think that Lego will go into the same detail as Tolkein and the LOTR. I don't think kids have quiet that much patience.