Why do or don't you like Bionicle?

[legotrainfan]

I don't like them. For me they don't really look legoish. They are far from the LEGO I love and grew up with.

[Brickthus]

Tao is not Toa, dude. Vague Maori Island references with robots is not Eastern Mysticism.

And "dangerous Magic" is rubbish.

Wrack speaks the truth.

Wrack and Gunnar, I respect your opinion. I was too flippant and inaccurate in my earlier comment.

I looked up Maori culture and found that they have four tiers of deities, of which the top tier has is a single, multi-faceted, deity, hence the different aspects of Toa powers. I accept that Bionicle references to Maori culture are sufficiently vague and that it is not Eastern Mysticism. Therefore you are right that Bionicle is not dangerous magic.

However, there exists some adult magic, thankfully not connected to Bionicle in any way, that is dangerous and should be avoided. Even its practitioners would agree that it is dangerous. Any further thoughts in that direction do not belong on this forum, so let's not go there.

Eh? Are you sure you're talking about Bionicle, sir? Seriously, Bionicle couldn't be further from eastern mysticism - or any form of actual beliefs, for that matter. Bionicle is at most, a sci-fi story with elements of fantasy and myth. It shares basically no similarities with Harry Potter, and relies far more on technological and physical explanations than "magic."

Honestly, I don't get what you're so upset about. Is it wrong for kids to enjoy fantastical things like "magic" in their playing and imagining? TLC's ethos has always been "just imagine" and in some ways Bionicle has incorporated a far greater dose of imagination than general lego themes, which are usually based off of historical periods, liscenses, or already established themes like fantasy and Sci-Fi. So, Bionicle does fit into TLC's original policies. Are you advocating that kids only "imagine" if they think realistically? Seriously, I'm really wondering what your point is from typing that, because I don't quite understand what you mean by it.

Don't worry, I'm not upset. As I say above, I accept that any reference of Bionicle to real cultures is vague and is not eastern mysticism. I accept that the basis is, as you say, more on technological and physical aspects.

In mentioning Harry Potter I intended a link only in the sense that both have some basis (with variable directness and vagueness) on a system involving magic in a fantasy world. There is no other connection. In that sense the "fantasy special powers" link is similar with Star Wars and other Sci-Fi licenses.

What I intended to say previously was that kids should have their fantasy but should understand the difference between fantasy and reality. It is possible for anyone, no matter how old, to get too far into any Sci-Fi theme, fantasy or myth, even beyond wishing they had some of the special powers. In a poll, the most popular special power people wished for was to fly - it would certainly avoid having to drive! Some people live in a fantasy world to the extent that it impedes their ability to function in the real world - that can become dangerous, especially if the fantasy involves harm to people. Thankfully, that is way beyond the scope of any LEGO theme.

It makes me wonder about the relative merits in LEGO modelling between creating a fantasy world, where precision is entirely up to the modeller (seems a nice relaxing hobby!), and attempting to create a model of the real world, where precision depends more on the preferences of the group or the intended viewers for aspects such as period and scale (too may opinions on modelling details). In my case, the time I have spent building a realistic LEGO model railway to scale, with many Technic functions, may explain my preference for thinking "realistically" - everything has to be measured. I need to chill out for a while and enjoy something so fantastic that it has no link to the real world! (cue chorus of "hear hear").

On the basis of the discussion we've had, I'm not so bothered about the Bionicle storyline. I think, whilst both are fantasy themes, the link between Bionicle and Maori culture is more vague than the link between Harry Potter and real magic. Thank you all for challenging me.

My main beef with Bionicle (in the real, commercial world) is the number of moulds that it steals from Technic, leaving Technic needing many more small, versatile parts that I end up having to make myself, such as these parts.

Mark

[~Wrack'n'Ruin~]

However, there exists some adult magic, thankfully not connected to Bionicle in any way, that is dangerous and should be avoided. Even its practitioners would agree that it is dangerous. Any further thoughts in that direction do not belong on this forum, so let's not go there.

I call megablocks on that, personally. Magic is only dangerous if you believe in it.

[The Rancor]

I voted no.

I just wish TLG would release a more mature theme including proper sets and minifigs!

Bionicles just sit there for me and I never use parts because they are too big for any of my other creations (mostly)

[rriggs]

Woah, I think fans of Technic as a whole may have something to say about that - not to mention fans of Creator, Starwars UCS, the achitecture models like the Eifel Tower and Taj Mahal, etc.

Well, a lot of these models can be used or converted for use with minifigs which fulfills my needs - I use a couple of the Creator houses in my Lego town. Although the scale is a bit off I think that the Taj Mahal and Eiffel Tower both work well with minifigs too. As for Technic - It does have its uses when building large minifig vehicles (XXL Mobile Crane for example) but I'm not a big Technic fan either for largely the same reasons. Sorry.

News to me.

Didn't know about those little guys but still wouldn't class 'em as minifigs I'm afraid!!

Cheers

Rog

[Capt. Bluebeard]

I voted "No" because they jumped the shark with the Mistika.

End of story.

Bluebeard, out-

Edited December 6, 2008 by Capt. Bluebeard

[Zarkan]

I looked up Maori culture and found that they have four tiers of deities, of which the top tier has is a single, multi-faceted, deity, hence the different aspects of Toa powers. I accept that Bionicle references to Maori culture are sufficiently vague and that it is not Eastern Mysticism. Therefore you are right that Bionicle is not dangerous magic.

However, there exists some adult magic, thankfully not connected to Bionicle in any way, that is dangerous and should be avoided. Even its practitioners would agree that it is dangerous. Any further thoughts in that direction do not belong on this forum, so let's not go there.

Don't worry, I'm not upset. As I say above, I accept that any reference of Bionicle to real cultures is vague and is not eastern mysticism. I accept that the basis is, as you say, more on technological and physical aspects.

In mentioning Harry Potter I intended a link only in the sense that both have some basis (with variable directness and vagueness) on a system involving magic in a fantasy world. There is no other connection. In that sense the "fantasy special powers" link is similar with Star Wars and other Sci-Fi licenses.

What I intended to say previously was that kids should have their fantasy but should understand the difference between fantasy and reality. It is possible for anyone, no matter how old, to get too far into any Sci-Fi theme, fantasy or myth, even beyond wishing they had some of the special powers. In a poll, the most popular special power people wished for was to fly - it would certainly avoid having to drive! Some people live in a fantasy world to the extent that it impedes their ability to function in the real world - that can become dangerous, especially if the fantasy involves harm to people. Thankfully, that is way beyond the scope of any LEGO theme.

It makes me wonder about the relative merits in LEGO modelling between creating a fantasy world, where precision is entirely up to the modeller (seems a nice relaxing hobby!), and attempting to create a model of the real world, where precision depends more on the preferences of the group or the intended viewers for aspects such as period and scale (too may opinions on modelling details). In my case, the time I have spent building a realistic LEGO model railway to scale, with many Technic functions, may explain my preference for thinking "realistically" - everything has to be measured. I need to chill out for a while and enjoy something so fantastic that it has no link to the real world! (cue chorus of "hear hear").

On the basis of the discussion we've had, I'm not so bothered about the Bionicle storyline. I think, whilst both are fantasy themes, the link between Bionicle and Maori culture is more vague than the link between Harry Potter and real magic. Thank you all for challenging me.

My main beef with Bionicle (in the real, commercial world) is the number of moulds that it steals from Technic, leaving Technic needing many more small, versatile parts that I end up having to make myself, such as these parts.

Mark

My comments are responding to the points in bold, in numerical order:

1. I agree somewhat about this, but in general most kids do not take it to this extreme. And if they do, IMO, it's probably the fault of the parents. If a mother or father notices that their kid is getting way too obsessed with something, like Bionicle or Starwars, and is taking it to an almost reality-like level, then it should be their job to protect their kid from their own obessions. Toys are not like drugs and alcohol - they can not force a person to become obsessed with them. In this modern day and age, however, people blaming the company who makes products instead of blaming themselves for their obsessions has been spreading rapidly (ie. the ladies who sued McDonalds for getting fat, while living an unhealthy lifestyle and eating way too much fast food). Note though that I am not accusing you of sharing that viewpoint.

2. Actually, I've never really seen the connection between Harry Potter and real, dangrous magic like Wicca. I've read all seven books, and their style is far less moral-teaching and more entertaining - meaning that they are not written to sway anyone to certain viewpoints. Also, the "magic" used in the book is far different from what real "witches" use. For example, in the Harry Potter universe, putting dangerous curses on people is banned and will get you sent to the wizard's prison, thus it is made clear that putting curses on people is bad and evil. In the real world, "cursing" people is a way of life for many users of "magic." Harry potter basically does to magic what the Pirates of the Carribean did to piracy - in both worlds, the good guys are adherents to those viewpoints, but are less about hurting people and more about adventure. On the other hand, it is made obvious that the bad guys care most about terrorizing normal people, and their practices are somewhat frowned on. Also, note that these words are coming from someone who has been a Christian for years, and who adheres to a book that commands against real witchcraft and the occult.

3. Uh? Now this I don't understand. How can Bionicle leave technic from getting needed parts, just because it uses technic parts in larger kits? I honestly am not sure what you are saying by this at all. If anything, it's Technic that is borrowing from Bionicle - I've noticed frequent usage of the more versatile parts that were introduced in Bionicle, especially Bohrok teeth.

I call bullshoot on that, personally. Magic is only dangerous if you believe in it.

Um, I think that was his point, Wrack. If kids started believing in occult practices, wouldn't that be something to worry about?

[InnerRayg]

Are we really discussing the dangers of -magic-??

Really?

REALLY?

Wow.

[matanui911]

Ello Alex. I love bionicles! I saw the poll, and most of us dont?? How is this?? The story is amazing, and very addicting. The toys have a uniqueness to them, unlike any other toy. They look good, and are fun to collect!

Peace out! :pir-skull:

[Wrinkledlion X]

Wrack and Gunnar, I respect your opinion. I was too flippant and inaccurate in my earlier comment.

I looked up Maori culture and found that they have four tiers of deities, of which the top tier has is a single, multi-faceted, deity, hence the different aspects of Toa powers. I accept that Bionicle references to Maori culture are sufficiently vague and that it is not Eastern Mysticism. Therefore you are right that Bionicle is not dangerous magic.

However, there exists some adult magic, thankfully not connected to Bionicle in any way, that is dangerous and should be avoided. Even its practitioners would agree that it is dangerous. Any further thoughts in that direction do not belong on this forum, so let's not go there.

Mark

I wasn't even aware of this multifaceted deity stuff, because really it has no involvement in BIONICLE. The different elements are just carried down from Slizers and RoboRiders, and the whole Maori theme is nothing more than aesthetic- Names, locations, etc. In recent years, in fact, there's been a huge lack of emphasis on mysticism of any kind.

Aesthetics aside, the "magic" present in BIONICLE is no worse than that of LEGO's Castle line with an exotic flare. One could achieve the same effect by creating a line of Power Rangers action figures with Polynesian names. The sort of magic present in BIONICLE could probably more accurately be called pseudoscience, actually.

Edited December 13, 2008 by Gunnar

[voltio]

I dislike current Bionicle mainly because I do not like the large, specialized pieces that many of the sets contain. (see Piraka spines, swords/axes/weapons, Barraki squid cannons). These often seem built from low-grade plastic, not ABS.

At the same time, I admit that I did buy a few of the original Toa from 2001 because the parts were, IMO, higher quality and similar to those of the Robo Riders and Slizers of the past. I also find uses for basic Bionicle ball hinges, and enjoyed the Bionicle-built dragons from the Vikings line.

[matanui911]

I dislike current Bionicle mainly because I do not like the large, specialized pieces that many of the sets contain. (see Piraka spines, swords/axes/weapons, Barraki squid cannons). These often seem built from low-grade plastic, not ABS.

At the same time, I admit that I did buy a few of the original Toa from 2001 because the parts were, IMO, higher quality and similar to those of the Robo Riders and Slizers of the past. I also find uses for basic Bionicle ball hinges, and enjoyed the Bionicle-built dragons from the Vikings line.

I personally love the special pieces, and I dont care what kind of plastic they are made out of