simonjedi Posted January 30, 2012 Posted January 30, 2012 Because they're droids. Obi Wan just doesn't care about them. Maybe he had an idea but there are probably billions of blue R2 units in the galaxy, It's the Star Wars equivalent of remembering a specific mass produced toaster after 20 years. IIRC Luke doesn't actually name R2-D2 to Ben. He says 'This R2 unit' Quote
LEGOman273 Posted January 30, 2012 Posted January 30, 2012 Because they're droids. Obi Wan just doesn't care about them. Maybe he had an idea but there are probably billions of blue R2 units in the galaxy, It's the Star Wars equivalent of remembering a specific mass produced toaster after 20 years. IIRC Luke doesn't actually name R2-D2 to Ben. He says 'This R2 unit' I wouldn't say that Obi-Wan didn't care about droids. According to Wookipedia, he was sad when his astromech droid was destroyed. (During the Battle of Coruscant-Episode III-) Quote
Brickadeer Posted January 30, 2012 Posted January 30, 2012 (edited) Because they're droids. Obi Wan just doesn't care about them. Maybe he had an idea but there are probably billions of blue R2 units in the galaxy, It's the Star Wars equivalent of remembering a specific mass produced toaster after 20 years. IIRC Luke doesn't actually name R2-D2 to Ben. He says 'This R2 unit' Well, first, it is not just an R2 unit, but an R2 unit travelling with C-3PO, a droid that was built by Anakin himself. Second, after the Tusken incident, when Luke is about to leave with Obi Wan and R2, he remembers 3PO and says, "3PO!". So it's an R2 unit together with a golden protocol droid named "3PO". So no matter how many R2 units there were in the galaxy, this is a duo he might have remembered and recognized as the Jedi master he was. My question, though, basically was if these inconsistencies were ever "officially" adressed. With regard to my other question asked, DarthR2-D2 has made a point. It is not exactly what I had in my mind when I saw ANH when I was a child, but it probably is the best that we will have been gotten when TCW is finished. Edited January 30, 2012 by Brickadeer Quote
Fallenangel Posted January 30, 2012 Posted January 30, 2012 (edited) Well, to really get into details, one could also make the following points: I wouldn't say that Obi-Wan didn't care about droids. According to Wookipedia, he was sad when his astromech droid was destroyed. (During the Battle of Coruscant-Episode III-) Yet in another source (Labyrinth of Evil, I think it was, or the Revenge of the Sith novelization) it’s illustrated that Obi-Wan habitually refers to Artoo as an ‘it’, much to the discontent of Anakin, who refers to him as a ‘he’. Furthermore, the Wookieepedia article claims that he “lamented the loss of R4-P17, as the droid had been a competent unit”. (Not the most reliable piece of evidence - I’d like to know what source this comes from - but it’s all I’ve got at the moment.) True, he cares about droids, but only to the extent that one would care about a mass-produced toaster (as simonjedi put it). Well, first, it is not just an R2 unit, but an R2 unit travelling with C-3PO, a droid that was built by Anakin himself. Did they travel together? If I recall correctly, Threepio spent most of the Clone Wars in Padme’s service, while Artoo was serving as Anakin’s personal astromech droid. Presumably with duties in two different fields Padme and Anakin (and their droids) would have spent relatively little time together. Correct me if I’m wrong, but canonically speaking, I don’t really see them as a ‘duo’ until after they were assigned to Antilles (after which their experiences as a pair are extensively documented). Second, after the Tusken incident, when Luke is about to leave with Obi Wan and R2, he remembers 3PO and says, "3PO!". So it's an R2 unit together with a golden protocol droid named "3PO". So no matter how many R2 units there were in the galaxy, this is a duo he might have remembered and recognized as the Jedi master he was. ‘3PO’ can refer to any 3PO-series protocol droid; at least four different models are shown in Empire alone (C, R, K, and E). In other words, unless Luke had specified Threepio as being C-3PO, there would have been no reason for Obi-Wan to identify this particular 3PO unit as being the one he had seen with Anakin’s wife some twenty years ago. And even then, if there only exist 26 possible names for a 3PO-series protocol droid there are sure to be scores of golden C-3POs across the galaxy. But I’m drifting into pure speculation at this point, so I’ll stop. Just goes to show that these kinds of things can go either way. I blame poor script writing on Lucas’ part. Edited January 30, 2012 by Fallenangel Quote
Brickadeer Posted January 30, 2012 Posted January 30, 2012 Just goes to show that these kinds of things can go either way. I blame poor script writing on Lucas’s part. I think it is one of the consequences to introduce OT character like R2-D2 and C-3PO into the PT. I'm not sure if script writing would have made it better; the only safe way to avoid possible inconsistencies is to edit and change the OT. I think I'll simply continue to regard the PT and the OT only as loosely connected. Quote
Clone OPatra Posted January 30, 2012 Posted January 30, 2012 Furthermore, the Wookieepedia article claims that he “lamented the loss of R4-P17, as the droid had been a competent unit”. (Not the most reliable piece of evidence - I’d like to know what source this comes from - but it’s all I’ve got at the moment.) True, he cares about droids, but only to the extent that one would care about a mass-produced toaster (as simonjedi put it). I think it's pretty clear why he might have been upset for a minute; a droid navigator appears to be pretty useful in a starfighter, and Obi-Wan isn't exactly the greatest of pilots anyway. It's clearly harder to a run a ship's systems without the droid, seeing how often the pilots in the films ask the droids for assistance. It doesn't mean Obi-Wan actually cared about that specific droid. Even in the Wookieepedia quote, it just seems that Obi-Wan had good experience flying the ship with that droid, so it's understandable that for him as a so-so pilot having to fly without a droid or adapt to a new one would be a bit of a nuisance. Quote
Fallenangel Posted January 30, 2012 Posted January 30, 2012 Precisely. Droids aren't people, they're equipment! Or as Joruus C'baoth puts it, "creations that reason, but yet are not genuinely part of the Force." Quote
Artanis I Posted January 30, 2012 Posted January 30, 2012 If Obi-Wan had no feelings or whatever for the droids, why would he say it like "R4, scramble code 5 to Coruscant c/o the old folks' home" in EpII? I think this suggests at least some level of an understanding relationship - not the sort you would have with your toaster. (Unless it was a pet toaster) Quote
Fallenangel Posted January 31, 2012 Posted January 31, 2012 It’s been a while since I’ve seen Clones, but I believe what he said was “Arfour, relay this: ‘scramble code five’...”. And in any case, programming a machine to recognize certain code names is easy enough. Quote
Churchill Posted January 31, 2012 Posted January 31, 2012 I always figured the "old folks home" was just part of the code. I continue to struggle with the OT Obi-wan in light of how he's portrayed in the PT and the CW. I know that Lucas was/is just able to have him appear so much more vibrant in the PT/CW, but it distresses me that now when we watch ANH he seems to have lost so much power. (Of course, I also feel that way about Vader) He's obviously being genuine when he says that he never owned a droid. I don't understand why R2 wouldn't have been able to remind Obi of who he was. I'm resigned to the fact that the order of the movies and the ever expanding universe is the whole cause of this. I'll never be able to come to terms with these inconsistencies because retconning them in any way doesn't really solve the problem. It's just to make us sleep better at night. And it doesn't work. Maybe Obi-Wan was the one who had his mind wiped. Quote
The Legonater Posted January 31, 2012 Posted January 31, 2012 It's always seemed to me the Ben did recognize R2 and 3P0, just decided not let it on so as not to confuse Luke. And as for him saying he never owned Artoo- well, that much is bang on. Precisely. Droids aren't people, they're equipment! Or as Joruus C'baoth puts it, "creations that reason, but yet are not genuinely part of the Force." Quote
Brickdoctor Posted January 31, 2012 Posted January 31, 2012 It's always seemed to me the Ben did recognize R2 and 3P0, just decided not let it on so as not to confuse Luke. And as for him saying he never owned Artoo- well, that much is bang on. I'm sure he had his reasons. Quote
Clone OPatra Posted January 31, 2012 Posted January 31, 2012 The problem is that the way the prequels were written, the characters are all much younger than they logically should be in ANH. Does Darth Vader seem like he's in his forties? He doesn't to me; in ANH I would say in his fifties at least. Obi-Wan looks and acts like he's in his 70s, but the prequels reveal him to be just in his fifties (it doesn't even work within the PT, he doesn't seem like he's only roughly 33 in RotS). It's absolutely Lucas' fault for writing the PT this way; he should've thought about it a bit more before having the characters be the ages that they are in the PT. I have thought since the PT was finished that EpI should've started with Obi-Wan as already a master, with Anakin as his apprentice, finishing in EpIII with Obi-Wan being already closer to a wise old man and in his fifties while Anakin succumbs to the dark side in his 30s. That wasn't 'George's vision,' though. Quote
The Legonater Posted January 31, 2012 Posted January 31, 2012 (edited) The problem is that the way the prequels were written, the characters are all much younger than they logically should be in ANH. Does Darth Vader seem like he's in his forties? He doesn't to me; in ANH I would say in his fifties at least. Obi-Wan looks and acts like he's in his 70s, but the prequels reveal him to be just in his fifties (it doesn't even work within the PT, he doesn't seem like he's only roughly 33 in RotS). It's absolutely Lucas' fault for writing the PT this way; he should've thought about it a bit more before having the characters be the ages that they are in the PT. I have thought since the PT was finished that EpI should've started with Obi-Wan as already a master, with Anakin as his apprentice, finishing in EpIII with Obi-Wan being already closer to a wise old man and in his fifties while Anakin succumbs to the dark side in his 30s. That wasn't 'George's vision,' though. To be honest, I think the main problem lies in how short the Clone Wars were. I has always been under the impression that it would be 5-10 years at the very least. Considering this is Galactic warfare, that wouldn't really be that long. 3 years is way to short for a supposedly bloody war spanning hundreds of planets. EDIT: It should be noted that the Galactic Civil War- which was a fight largely between a very new and unorganized political system and quickly dieing military force instead of two very large and very supported armies- lasted 30 years. Edited January 31, 2012 by The Legonater Quote
Fallenangel Posted January 31, 2012 Posted January 31, 2012 (edited) Older sources such as A Guide to the Star Wars Universe actually state that the Clone Wars ended in 35 BBY - well before the events of Menace, if it had existed - so it's possible that they could originally have been thought of as being much longer. (See my post in the General Questions thread concerning the Poisoning of Honoghr - something to do with the Ruusan Reformation.) Pity Stegoceras hasn't been posting lately. Edited January 31, 2012 by Fallenangel Quote
LEGOman273 Posted January 31, 2012 Posted January 31, 2012 I always figured the "old folks home" was just part of the code. I continue to struggle with the OT Obi-wan in light of how he's portrayed in the PT and the CW. I know that Lucas was/is just able to have him appear so much more vibrant in the PT/CW, but it distresses me that now when we watch ANH he seems to have lost so much power. (Of course, I also feel that way about Vader) He's obviously being genuine when he says that he never owned a droid. I don't understand why R2 wouldn't have been able to remind Obi of who he was. I'm resigned to the fact that the order of the movies and the ever expanding universe is the whole cause of this. I'll never be able to come to terms with these inconsistencies because retconning them in any way doesn't really solve the problem. It's just to make us sleep better at night. And it doesn't work. Maybe Obi-Wan was the one who had his mind wiped. He could have been suffering from memory loss, due to age and isolation. (Yoda went senile, so it is not out of the question.) Older sources such as A Guide to the Star Wars Universe actually state that the Clone Wars ended in 35 BBY - well before the events of Menace, if it had existed - so it's possible that they could originally have been thought of as being much longer. (See my post in the General Questions thread concerning the Poisoning of Honoghr - something to do with the Ruusan Reformation.) Pity Stegoceras hasn't been posting lately. Perhaps the Clone Wars will be retconned to be longer. Quote
Brickdoctor Posted January 31, 2012 Posted January 31, 2012 Perhaps the Clone Wars will be retconned to be longer. Knowing 'George's Vision', the OT will be retconned instead. "With the level that voice synthesizers and CGI is at nowadays, I finally have the technology to realize my original vision. I'm going to completely redo all three Original Trilogy movies in CGI, and I can change all the lines of all the characters to make them fit into the storyline that I've been able to establish with the PT. I'll also re-re-re-release the movies in the theaters as 3D Special Special Special Editions, because I don't have enough money yet. The fans are gonna love it." Quote
Fallenangel Posted January 31, 2012 Posted January 31, 2012 Perhaps the Clone Wars will be retconned to be longer. Wait for the episode of THE Clone Wars where Anakin, Obi-wan, Padme and a slew of other major characters fall through a time portal that takes them another ten years into the Wars so that they remain their respective canon ages by the Battle of Coruscant. Alternatively, it would be a simple matter of retconning everyone's ages... Quote
LEGOman273 Posted January 31, 2012 Posted January 31, 2012 Knowing 'George's Vision', the OT will be retconned instead. "With the level that voice synthesizers and CGI is at nowadays, I finally have the technology to realize my original vision. I'm going to completely redo all three Original Trilogy movies in CGI, and I can change all the lines of all the characters to make them fit into the storyline that I've been able to establish with the PT. I'll also re-re-re-release the movies in the theaters as 3D Special Special Special Editions, because I don't have enough money yet. The fans are gonna love it." But if the Clone Wars are lengthened, the show will be able to go on longer. Quote
CMP Posted January 31, 2012 Posted January 31, 2012 Wait for the episode of THE Clone Wars where Anakin, Obi-wan, Padme and a slew of other major characters fall through a time portal that takes them another ten years into the Wars so that they remain their respective canon ages by the Battle of Coruscant. Too late...it's called 'Mortis'. Quote
Fallenangel Posted January 31, 2012 Posted January 31, 2012 Reading through the plot summaries on Wookieepedia for the first time, the Mortis arc feels strangely cliche... Quote
Clone OPatra Posted January 31, 2012 Posted January 31, 2012 Reading through the plot summaries on Wookieepedia for the first time, the Mortis arc feels strangely cliche... You need to watch it to experience the true awfulness. A mere description will not do its stupidity justice. Quote
Brickadeer Posted January 31, 2012 Posted January 31, 2012 The problem is that the way the prequels were written, the characters are all much younger than they logically should be in ANH. Does Darth Vader seem like he's in his forties? He doesn't to me; in ANH I would say in his fifties at least. Obi-Wan looks and acts like he's in his 70s, but the prequels reveal him to be just in his fifties (it doesn't even work within the PT, he doesn't seem like he's only roughly 33 in RotS). It's absolutely Lucas' fault for writing the PT this way; he should've thought about it a bit more before having the characters be the ages that they are in the PT. I have thought since the PT was finished that EpI should've started with Obi-Wan as already a master, with Anakin as his apprentice, finishing in EpIII with Obi-Wan being already closer to a wise old man and in his fifties while Anakin succumbs to the dark side in his 30s. That wasn't 'George's vision,' though. I agree that age is a serious problem. I'm not willing to blame George Lucas alone for it, though. Rather, I'd say that youth plays a huge role today, and that he simply would not have been able to get his films distributed if his main actors were rather old men. Quote
Mr Man Posted January 31, 2012 Posted January 31, 2012 (edited) I always figured the "old folks home" was just part of the code. I continue to struggle with the OT Obi-wan in light of how he's portrayed in the PT and the CW. I know that Lucas was/is just able to have him appear so much more vibrant in the PT/CW, but it distresses me that now when we watch ANH he seems to have lost so much power. (Of course, I also feel that way about Vader) Maybe the Duel on the Death Star was so much more epic than the Duel on Mustafar, but our puny non force equipped brained couldn't handle it and all we could see was two old men hitting each other with their walking sticks. Edit: I feel I'm in a minority here now as someone who loves the PT, CW, TCW, and OT equally , sure they have inconsistencies but so do a lot of really great stories. Edited January 31, 2012 by Mr Man Quote
LEGOman273 Posted January 31, 2012 Posted January 31, 2012 Maybe the Duel on the Death Star was so much more epic than the Duel on Mustafar, but our puny non force equipped brained couldn't handle it and all we could see was two old men hitting each other with their walking sticks. Edit: I feel I'm in a minority here now as someone who loves the PT, CW, TCW, and OT equally , sure they have inconsistencies but so do a lot of really great stories. You are not. Quote
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