Star Wars

[Mr Man]

I would love a massively updated BF game, 'cos I always have the first two to go back to if the new one isn't so fun. BFII has been permanently installed on my computers for years now.

[Artanis I]

Battlefront games were really the last decent Star Wars games. But even then it relies on the Star Wars license. If you took Star Wars out of it the thing would probably be considered an average shooter. I believe you have to make a franchise game great as if it wasn't in the franchise. Some of the earlier Star Wars games did that. Rogue Squadron and a lot of the PC games would be fully awesome even if it wasn't Star Wars.

That logic doesn't really work. That is like saying if you took the SW out of KOTOR it would just be an average RPG. Or if you took the SW out of the Death Star it would just be a space station. Of course the IP is what makes those things special.

I think the point he's making is that as a shooter, Battlefront really doesn't have very many features. You have a couple basic stats, a couple abilities, and some cookie-cutter classes equipped with cookie-cutter weapons, and you do pretty much the same thing in every battle, both in Instant Action and in Campaign. (Shoot this, capture that, hold here, get there.) The squad commands are extremely limited, the AI is primitive, and the options you have seem uncreative.

The main reason we like Battlefront is because we get to play as Star Wars characters; if it was a WWII shooter instead, I doubt it would sell that well. You can't just say that that's the same as saying, "if you took the SW out of KOTOR it would just be an average RPG", because KotOR would probably still be a novel and popular concept if it were, say, medieval fantasy RPG instead of Star Wars RPG.

We could compare it to Lego. SW sets should (according to that kind of opinion) stand on their own as good sets even without the SW references. This comparison is not quite as easy though, because regular sets are designed exclusively to be good looking playable models, whereas licenced ones (such as SW) are firstly attempting to visually represent something originally not built in Lego.

[Piranha]

I think the point he's making is that as a shooter, Battlefront really doesn't have very many features. You have a couple basic stats, a couple abilities, and some cookie-cutter classes equipped with cookie-cutter weapons, and you do pretty much the same thing in every battle, both in Instant Action and in Campaign. (Shoot this, capture that, hold here, get there.) The squad commands are extremely limited, the AI is primitive, and the options you have seem uncreative.

The main reason we like Battlefront is because we get to play as Star Wars characters; if it was a WWII shooter instead, I doubt it would sell that well. You can't just say that that's the same as saying, "if you took the SW out of KOTOR it would just be an average RPG", because KotOR would probably still be a novel and popular concept if it were, say, medieval fantasy RPG instead of Star Wars RPG.

But those kinds of arguments are speculative at best. If KOTOR was instead a medieval RPG what would stop it from being tossed in the bin with countless others? True it has a great story and gameplay (because it is set in the SW universe). It is generally regarded as the best SW game ever, with a 93 on Metacritic. BF2 got a 84, not bad considering its genera and being under critical review.

Also being a TPS it was a unique game for the time it was released in, compared with future games, it is easy to say it might have been lacking features, but that is an opinion.

Republic Commando which arguably had a better story and interesting gameplay got only a 78. All I am saying is you could take anything and demerit it by removing elements that make it great.

[The Legonater]

I would say Republic Commando goes pretty firmly in that 'play it largely because it's Star Wars' niche. Sure it's a fun game, and I love it a lot, but when it comes down to it, there's not that much that separates it from a lot of other shooters, aside from some interesting game features.

[Piranha]

I would say Republic Commando goes pretty firmly in that 'play it largely because it's Star Wars' niche. Sure it's a fun game, and I love it a lot, but when it comes down to it, there's not that much that separates it from a lot of other shooters, aside from some interesting game features.

Yet of all the games mentioned it is the only one that is confirmed canon, thanks Dave Filoni.

Going forward it is great news all new SW games will be part of canon. I hope the Visceral project is something openworld or similar to 1313.

[Brickdoctor]

[...] All I am saying is you could take anything and demerit it by removing elements that make it great.

I get your point; I agree. I just wanted to clarify that Battlefront doesn't really have any features other than the licensed storyline which make it great. If you pull just the storyline out of all games, then you remove all the elements that make Battlefront great, but you don't necessarily remove all the elements that make another shooter great. So, yes, you demerit Battlefront by removing that one specific element that makes it great, but in doing so, you demerit it more compared to other games.

[Nom Carver]

I get your point; I agree. I just wanted to clarify that Battlefront doesn't really have any features other than the licensed storyline which make it great. If you pull just the storyline out of all games, then you remove all the elements that make Battlefront great, but you don't necessarily remove all the elements that make another shooter great. So, yes, you demerit Battlefront by removing that one specific element that makes it great, but in doing so, you demerit it more compared to other games.

The great diference between Battlefront II and all other shooters is a key element that stands out pretty clearly to me: the heroes, they are fun to play with and can turn the tides of the ongoing battle to your favour and when two of them face eachother, it all comes down to who got the best combination of skills weapons and strategy, and if you are smart and skilled enough, you can defeat them with a regular unit, battlefront without SW would never have jedy and sith, instead would need some sort of equivalent that would be an obious ripoff of the franchise, in other words, SW has some very clever and fun elements that lured us into it, what I liked of that game was the fact that it contained just about everything about SW: space battles, ground battles, light sabres, blaster fights, speeders, walkers, cruisers and all our favorite planets and locations, it had its flaws but it certainly was a ton of fun and even without being able to play online, it still was good enough for me, specially in a "mano a mano" against a friend or a AI controlled hero. I wouldn't like it to become into a SW Battlefield, the main differences I would point out are: the speed of the proyectiles (laser bolts are considerably slower than bullets on any FPS game which I think is good because lets you know where are you being shot from), the player has a limited health that can be only restored with bacta tanks or medical droids, I prefer the third person view, and the fact that vehicles are more vulnerable and are a secondary element of the game. In a SW game I don't want realism, I want fun, SW is no cience fiction, is just space fantasy.

[Faefrost]

There are apparently some interesting SW rumors circulating the Internet today. The first wonderfully believable, the second not so much, but we can dream.

-the first rumor is that Disney wants to release a blu-Ray set of the original non special edition trilogy. I think we would all jump for joy if that were to happen. Granted they probably have to do it in partnership with 20th Century Fox.

-the second, less likely, rumor is that Disney has given serious consideration to adding the PT to the list of "Legacy" cannon alongside the EU. I think that one might just be wishful thinking on someone's part.

[CMP]

I'd pick up a boxed set Blu-ray of the OT. I was astounded at how the picture looked when I popped in Desolation of Smaug for the first time, and I lost the original version of A New Hope from the Special Edition a few years ago. Would totally be worth it in my opinion, even moreso than seeing the 3D versions in theaters.

I don't think the PT should be ejected from canon. It's not that offensively bad.

[Fives]

While the PT ruined SW for a lot of older fans, I don't believe its in Disney's interests to completely change what we know. Plus, they are the films. They are and always will be canon. I feel like any Star Wars film should exist within the fixed canon, while games, books, comics and such can be subject to change. Also, if they have a new group whose job it is to keep the canon clear, I doubt ripping a massive chunk of the story out of the framework would make sense. Cuz if the PT goes, then so does CW and everything that ties to. It just wouldn't work.

And regardless of all that, it would be the hugest middle finger Disney give Lucas. It'd basically be saying "Thanks for your life's work, we're now gonna change and mess with all of it."

Edited May 17, 2014 by Fives

[Darth Punk]

There are apparently some interesting SW rumors circulating the Internet today. The first wonderfully believable, the second not so much, but we can dream.

-the first rumor is that Disney wants to release a blu-Ray set of the original non special edition trilogy. I think we would all jump for joy if that were to happen. Granted they probably have to do it in partnership with 20th Century Fox.

-the second, less likely, rumor is that Disney has given serious consideration to adding the PT to the list of "Legacy" cannon alongside the EU. I think that one might just be wishful thinking on someone's part.

The first rumor I hope with all my heart is true.

As for the second I find it extremely unlike to ever happen. And frankly I don't see the reason why it would be necessary. I'll admit I'm not a PT fan but the new trilogy is going to make it ancient history in a galaxy far, far away.

Edited May 17, 2014 by Darth Punk

[Brickdoctor]

I can only speak for myself, but at this point, I honestly could not care less what Disney says about what is or isn't canon. Between the Disney overhaul and the TCW series, enough has been thrown out and overridden that I've stopped caring about whether or not what I want to believe happened in the Star Wars universe is what officially happened in the Star Wars universe.

Once they made just about everything non-canon, canonicity stopped seeming important to me. Maybe in ten years the universe will have been re-developed and maybe I'll like it enough to recognize two different storylines in my personal canon, but for now...no, I can't say that I care.

[The Legonater]

I agree with Doc. The canon's been played with so much lately, and to be honest what they've put out recently in terms of the EU (FotJ, LotF, NJO) hasn't exactly been the best. In reality, canonicity is going to come down to the individual anyways, just as it always has.

[Artanis I]

You guys wanna see Chimp Eyes on Bluray?

[CMP]

You guys wanna see Chimp Eyes on Bluray?

More than I wanna see that random crap in Mos Eisley or hear the songs in Jabba's Palace and the Ewok village.

[Fives]

So it may not be much, but this is essentially our first official look at what I'm assuming is Tatooine in Abu Dhabi!

I have no idea what the bearded ostrich thing is, but I love it, and the fact that its a good old puppet reassures me that JJ knows what he is doing in regards to the special effects.

[montgocloud]

You guys wanna see Chimp Eyes on Bluray?

I'd rather have Chimp Eyes with the original dialogue than the updated version where the dialogue makes no sense at all.

Also, I'd rather have the tonally appropriate music in Jabba's Palace.

And the removal of the CG crap that has been shoved into the original films. It's useless and it clutters up the frame.

And Greedo shooting. Seriously, George's reasoning is bizarre. Somehow this makes Han NOT a "cold blooded killer?" He still shot at the same time Greedo did. He couldn't have processed that Greedo was shooting at him before he fired. He still shot for the same reasons. The only difference is that now it sucks.

And the removal of the melodramatic "No!" at the end of ROTJ.

And Sebastian Shaw as Anakin.

And "Yub Nub."

If you can't tell, I consider the special editions one of the most offensive things in cinematic history.

But on a different note, that new video is great! Practical monsters and sets are always a good sign.

[Chills]

I can only speak for myself, but at this point, I honestly could not care less what Disney says about what is or isn't canon. Between the Disney overhaul and the TCW series, enough has been thrown out and overridden that I've stopped caring about whether or not what I want to believe happened in the Star Wars universe is what officially happened in the Star Wars universe.

Once they made just about everything non-canon, canonicity stopped seeming important to me. Maybe in ten years the universe will have been re-developed and maybe I'll like it enough to recognize two different storylines in my personal canon, but for now...no, I can't say that I care.

I completely agree. Just because Disney says all of the EU isn't canon doesn't mean I'm going to stop enjoying the books, comics, TCW, or the video games. I enjoy the creativity of the SW universe, and I don't really care much as to what the license owner says is "real" or not.

[The_Chosen_1]

The writer and director of the first standalone film have been announced: http://starwars.com/news/gareth-edwards-and-gary-whitta-onboard-for-star-wars-stand-alone-film.html

[the last chronicler]

I just wanted to say, as someone who grew up post-original trilogy, that I am greatly excited for ep. VII despite not being a fan of the universe in my youth. As a kid I missed out on that, for me Bionicle was my Star Wars.

Anyways, what I'm getting at is I don't think one should take Disney's elimination of the EU personally. I think some are interpreting Disney actions as a corporate attack on Star Wars, when really it's about the new trilogy.

What made Star Wars so great was that it swept viewers into a whole new grandiose universe, something the EU will prevent. Keeping it creates expectations for hardcore fans of the books and games for the story to match their personal imaginations, and prevents a new exciting film trilogy from unfolding because the plot is already known to it's audience.

For me I don't find the appeal of Star Wars comes from the dense back stories on cultures, political groups, species, and the light-saber tactics, but from characters and story. The name of Luke's planet could be Tatouine or Segourney Weaver for all I care, what's important is that it's his boring home, and the outside world is big and exciting. Star Wars is a mythological Hero's journey, and I think the EU could have over-complicated the sequels in a similar manner to how George Lucas's heavy politics and CGI created boring prequels.

If you enjoy the EU and want it "canon" then it's your own brain: don't let Disney, George or whoever, govern what you enjoy. I just don't want people so upset at Disney that it prevents them from enjoying and appreciating the new movies.

If someone said to me Bionicle was returning but all the expanded content was non-canon, then I'd be excited just to have it back. Unless, of course, it sucked

Edited May 23, 2014 by the last chronicler

[montgocloud]

Gary Whitta? As in the same Gary Whitta who posted (on gaming website NeoGaf)...

2008, in response to a post about the prequels:

"Guess what, those movies f***ing sucked too."

And, in 2011, on the Blu-Ray Special Editions:

"OG editions of Episodes IV, V, and VI ACQUIRED! Ripping them to Apple TV this afternoon, then I plan to watch the trilogy the way that I remember it! F*** Lucas and his vandalized Blu-rays. He's turned us all into scavengers, scraping around in the trash cans of the internet for our childhoods."

I mean I agree with him wholeheartedly, but then again I'm not an employee of Lucasfilm...

(Source: http://www.bleedingcool.com/2014/05/23/spin-off-writer-gary-whitta-loves-star-wars-so-much-hes-not-putting-up-with-the-prequels-or-special-editions/)

Edited May 24, 2014 by montyofmusic

[The Rancor]

So it may not be much, but this is essentially our first official look at what I'm assuming is Tatooine in Abu Dhabi!

I have no idea what the bearded ostrich thing is, but I love it, and the fact that its a good old puppet reassures me that JJ knows what he is doing in regards to the special effects.

I love the way that the ostrich just shuffles into view and takes a look at the camera, JJ's glance at it made me giggle. It must be so fun for the promotion team of Star Wars to keep teasers going for another year and a half. The market is very Mos Eisley-ish and I'm also impressed by the detail that's gone into the props. I imagine that even some of the people in the background could be potential extras here.

On the subject of Battlefront, I believe DICE, who work on the Battlefield games are working on the new instalment. Should be an ideal match, exchanging an armoured jeep for an ATST or a fighter jet for a TIE Bomber. I always preferred playing in the first person on Battlefront too so maybe it'll stay that way.

Edited May 24, 2014 by The Rancor

[Mr Man]

I always preferred playing in the first person on Battlefront too so maybe it'll stay that way.

I hope not, 3rd person was the best part of it.

[The Legonater]

What I'm most curious about with the new Battlefront is how they're going to treat AI. Obviously these days AI is treated with a lot of care, with teams trying to make it as good as possible. Personally, though, one of the greatest parts of the original games was the hilariously dumb AI, and I really wonder if they're going to try to emulate that or just improve it entirely.

[Fives]

What I'm most curious about with the new Battlefront is how they're going to treat AI. Obviously these days AI is treated with a lot of care, with teams trying to make it as good as possible. Personally, though, one of the greatest parts of the original games was the hilariously dumb AI, and I really wonder if they're going to try to emulate that or just improve it entirely.

I always loved how in the second game, the stupid Rebels troops would spend half a minute shooting the already dead Stormtrooper and yell at it. It still makes me chuckle.