Witch Hunt Mafia - Day 5

[Shadows]

Imagining that you are on the side of the heretics make this argument much weaker...

Funny how jumpy and accusational you get when nothing is said that could possibly warrant that.

Still, you did use the correct term, "imagining", since you would have to be to even consider that possibility.

My point is: in no other game ... of life ... that I have ever heard of, would the narrator lie about the final disposition of the dead. The only time one was ever even slightly misleading was relating to a character who returned as a ghost, and that was indicated through the use of a different avatar, and even then the person was said to be good, and they were. This is not a proper situation, and it seems to be intentional or someone needs to seriously figure out what they're doing before they ruin this whole thing.

If it is intentional, it's leading me to think that it's all a ruse and there really may be no witches at all, just suspicion, paranoia and deception on the part of the host.

Anyone ever heard of a situation like this where the dead are declared to be in hell/guilty/heretics and yet might not be?

[Dragonator]

Now I'm willing to listen to many arguments, but that Alexander is absurd. What would be the point in one of these games of life if there were no heretics? What would be the winning criteria? No, I think that idea is a little silly, no offence meant.

As for your last statement, I have never before ever heard of such a situation, and I do not think it would be fair if such a case were true. Besides, if God did declare people to be heretics when they are not, don't you think those dead people would be bitching about it in the discussion thread, much like I'm bitching about the Inquisitor calling me a heretic? I highly doubt that God is lying to us, it just would not be right. You know between the two of you, Alexander and Charles, you have managed to get me very confused. I don't know what to think now.

[Scouty]

I highly doubt that God is lying to us

God isn't lying, it could be the Inquisitor who is lying.

[Shadows]

Now I'm willing to listen to many arguments, but that Alexander is absurd. What would be the point in one of these games of life if there were no heretics? What would be the winning criteria? No, I think that idea is a little silly, no offence meant.

None taken, it was just a crazy idea that I heard someone kick around once.

Still, look at what has happened so far. We have an Inquisitor who thinks everyone is a heretic and no one being killed at night. We've taken 4 chances and they've all been witches. People are confused, horribly, going back and forth making silly and often conflicting accusations.

As far as real evidence, what has happened? Even the few night actions that have been taken have ended oddly. Attacks with no death, investigations that show nothing. I ended up playing nurse when that isn't even vaguely part of my role. You run a shop but don't control the goods and can't track who buys them. The torturer can't remember what he's done. The killer can't kill anyone. Charles is married.

See? It's like the whole thing is a deception.

Just a silly theory based on the lack of any real proof to point to.

As for your last statement, I have never before ever heard of such a situation, and I do not think it would be fair if such a case were true. Besides, if God did declare people to be heretics when they are not, don't you think those dead people would be bitching about it in the discussion thread, much like I'm bitching about the Inquisitor calling me a heretic? I highly doubt that God is lying to us, it just would not be right.

Exactly. Thank you for being one of the few to apply logic. Clearly, we have killed 4 witches/heretics, as hard as that may be to believe. From the descriptions, 2 may have been original witches and 2 were turned, but all were evil.

So why is Charles trying to claim that they weren't? Why is he misusing the words of Tinypius to indicate that everything he says is a lie when all he said was that some things may be misleading (like people arriving late, shopping, the normal clue type stuff)? Why has he gone so far as to declare that Hernan wasn't a heretic at all? How would he even know that without being a witch himself? Why is he so insistent on trying to put doubt into us when we are succeeding, even to the point of trying to manipulate the very structure of this game ... of life? Why is it working so well, and why did he target the Inquisitor on day 1? How about his own wife? Why does he target me when simple logic says that I'm innocent, as proven by the venom with which Hernan, the known heretic, attacked me? Why do I sincerely doubt that he would go calmly to his death after the Inquisitor is murdered and shown to be innocent?

Come up answers to all of that and things will be much clearer for you in the future.

God isn't lying, it could be the Inquisitor who is lying.

But the inquisitor isn't the one posting that they're burning in hell, Tinypius is. And so far, as Mustafa noted, not a single one of the heretics has gone to the discussion thread to claim otherwise. If you were innocent and declared a heretic on your death, wouldn't you say something?

[Hinckley]

Note that I have never once claimed to be God himself. I am simply the unseen narrator of piety from Azufre. I suppose you can call me Tiny Pious.

Also, it was very silly of me to include this quote in my OP, as it is rather misleading to say the least. I've removed it now.

To clarify...

- Don't take my word as fact. Some information or clues could possibly be misleading, just as some could be helpful.

Besides, if God did declare people to be heretics when they are not, ... I highly doubt that God is lying to us, it just would not be right.

Read everything, dear friend...

[Shadows]

Read everything, dear friend...

Now try it in context. Clearly, he is indicating that some of the clues are going to be misleading, we would expect no less, but facts are facts. When a game moderator states the alignment or role of a character, it is hard fact. It isn't up for debate or doubt, it is what it is. A witch, declared by any game moderator, is a witch.

Please show me a single source that claims that a narrator/moderator/host will lie about the alignment of the lynched, and I'll agree with you. If Dragonator had pulled something like that, you would have given him a harder time than you did. I don't think Tinypies is either, you're just making an issue where it doesn't exist for your own purposes.

From mafiawiki:

Once someone reaches a majority, that player is lynched and the rest of the players find out whether or not they have lynched a Mafia member.

End of story. The players aren't lied to, they aren't deceived or mislead, they're told the truth, success or failure. We have been told that each of the 4 choices have been witches or heretics, therefore they must be or this game ... of life ... is a farce.

More mafiawiki:

When a majority is reached, that person (if any) is Lynched, the mod reveals their role with a Death Scene, and the game moves to Night.

Not a lie about their role, not a distorted interpretation of their role, just their role. If their role is 'witch', I think we can feel pretty secure that we've killed the right person. Unless, of course, you don't want to kill witches.

More mafiawiki:

In most games, the Game Moderator will post the alignment (scum, ProTown, cult, etc) of now-dead players and what their roles were.

Alignment. Again, not a lie or deception. Their alignment. The most basic piece of information we have to go on.

If the desire was to not reveal that information accurately, it would simply be left out. There is no requirement that it be told, but if it is, it had better be true because the words of a mod during the non-narrative part of his post is supposed without bias, and lying in that way would unfairly alter the game in favour of the scum.

And again, not a single one of the 'victims' has claimed to have been innocent, except before death. 2 have confessed after death.

So seriously, get over it. The witches are dying. The town is doing exactly what it should, and you can't stop it.

[Hinckley]

So seriously, get over it.

No. I suppose it's not wise to listen to the reasoning of one I'm highly suspicious of. So, the priest is bringing us some sort of Wikin text? Sounds like witchcraft to me...

[Shadows]

No. I suppose it's not wise to listen to the reasoning of one I'm highly suspicious of. So, the priest is bringing us some sort of Wikin text? Sounds like witchcraft to me...

Your face sounds like witchcraft. (ok, Wikin made me laugh, I'll admit)

Seriously, I thought you had a wife to service. Twice. Oh, done already...

[Zepher]

Your face sounds like witchcraft. (ok, Wikin made me laugh, I'll admit)

Seriously, I thought you had a wife to service. Twice. Oh, done already...

He's very quick and bussiness like about it...

I think that this "Wikin" is not all knowing. The Mod (Possibly God) may be switching things on us. Nothing is set in stone.

Except tha Ten Commandenments.

[Scouty]

He's very quick and bussiness like about it...

Ew.

I think that this "Wikin" is not all knowing. The Mod (Possibly God) may be switching things on us. Nothing is set in stone.

I say it's all heresy and shouldn't be considered

[Norrington]

He's very quick and bussiness like about it...

That, M'Lady is disgusting, and you aand your heretical husband should keep it in your bedchamber. Got it?

Now, as for these Wikan texts, perhaps we should ask Tiny Pius whether or not they apply in this game... of life.

[Shadows]

Now, as for these Wikan texts, perhaps we should ask Tiny Pius whether or not they apply in this game... of life.

Yes, and I think we should expect an answer. This goes to the very core of how these games ... of life ... work. I can not find a single instance where that particular rule has been changed, it goes against every standard set forth, and violates the spirit of fair play and impartiality if we are being lied to in that regard.

It should be noted that this particular Wikin site is the one he links to as a source of information in the Mafia Index.

Until this is cleared up, I don't intend to vote.

[Scouty]

Methinks following such a...scroll...is beginning to ruin the spirit of the game.

Yes, we'd know what does what or whatever, but where's the fun in that?

[Shadows]

Methinks following such a...scroll...is beginning to ruin the spirit of the game.

Yes, we'd know what does what or whatever, but where's the fun in that?

Knowing the alignment of the people we sentence to death is the most basic element of the game for the good citizens. The witches already know who is on their side, they were told before the game. Telling the rest of us at the time of execution is the only way we can determine how to proceed.

So, it's as simple as this. If you are a good citizen, don't vote until this matter is cleared up, because you can't do so with any certainty. If people object to the possibility of voting for someone as a test, how can they not object to this? It makes every vote a test, and then we don't even know the result.

If you're a witch, carry on as usual, you already know who is good and who is bad and you'll take advantage of any situation to advance your evil cause.

Just realise that we'll be watching.

[Zepher]

That, M'Lady is disgusting, and you aand your heretical husband should keep it in your bedchamber. Got it?

OOC: Aw have some fun. I needed a reason for still being out since Hinck refuses to accept that we're asleep.

[Scouty]

Knowing the alignment of the people we sentence to death is the most basic element of the game for the good citizens. The witches already know who is on their side, they were told before the game. Telling the rest of us at the time of execution is the only way we can determine how to proceed.

So, it's as simple as this. If you are a good citizen, don't vote until this matter is cleared up, because you can't do so with any certainty. If people object to the possibility of voting for someone as a test, how can they not object to this? It makes every vote a test, and then we don't even know the result.

If you're a witch, carry on as usual, you already know who is good and who is bad and you'll take advantage of any situation to advance your evil cause.

Just realise that we'll be watching.

Unfortunately, I don't know who is a witch or not, because I'm innocent. And that there is the truth!

[Norrington]

Unfortunately, I don't know who is a witch or not, because I'm innocent. And that there is the truth!

Correct, ma'am. We don't know who are witches. But, we know who were witches.

Methinks I'm not voting till TinyPius has answered us. However, I am suspcious of Charles for his constant denial of the Inquisitor's trustworthiness. He's led us on to burn 4 witches, why would he be a witch himself?

[Shadows]

Unfortunately, I don't know who is a witch or not, because I'm innocent. And that there is the truth!

Then I look forward to your support in this quest for knowledge, because without it, the good citizens have no chance of success.

Imagine if the mythical town of Moonlight hadn't been told, with certainty, that they had killed a Baritone. There would have been no hope for them, and without that basic knowledge, there is no hope for us.

[Hinckley]

Just realise that we'll be watching.

You mean the witches are watching?

Correct, ma'am. We don't know who are witches. But, we know who were witches.

Methinks I'm not voting till TinyPius has answered us. However, I am suspcious of Charles for his constant denial of the Inquisitor's trustworthiness. He's led us on to burn 4 witches, why would he be a witch himself?

He has answered us twice. What more do you want? You want him to vote for you? You're an idiot.

Note that I have never once claimed to be God himself. I am simply the unseen narrator of piety from Azufre. I suppose you can call me Tiny Pious.

Also, it was very silly of me to include this quote in my OP, as it is rather misleading to say the least. I've removed it now.

To clarify...

- Don't take my word as fact. Some information or clues could possibly be misleading, just as some could be helpful.

Alexander, this theory clearly scares you and that is because you know it's true and if people believe me your status as a witch will be discovered.

Don't listen to the Father, everyone. He's been lead astray and he will lead you too. Vote for Fernando on Day 6 and we will see for sure if I'm correct or not...

[Shadows]

You mean the witches are watching?

No, you don't need to watch, you already know who is who. It's the good citizens who are being harmed by this lack of clarity in the rules, so you would have no reason to be bothered by it.

He has answered us twice.

His answer isn't what you represent it as. He assumes we know he's telling the truth about the witches but you've twisted what he's said so much that it's leaving the good citizens confused.

You're an idiot.

Aw, you're showing your witchy side, aren't you? You were so quick to defend Hernan, who we know was turned to a witch, yet you condemn his father, who raised a good man who was sadly led astray. Why do you keep ending up on the side of the witches?

Alexander, this theory clearly scares you and that is because you know it's true and if people believe me your status as a witch will be discovered.

It's not a theory, it's just your attempt to confuse the good citizens. No game ... of life ... in history has ever gone that way and neither is this one, but you need them to believe it or you'll end up exposed as the Inquisitor regains his sanity and can make accurate investigations.

Not a single one of the witches has come back to deny having been one, and two have admitted it publicly.

Witches are dying and it's killing Charles inside.

Don't listen to the Father, everyone. He's been lead astray and he will lead you too. Vote for Fernando on Day 6 and we will see for sure if I'm correct or not...

And if you do, be prepared to vote for Charles on day 7, as he'll be revealed for what he has become. Before that, ask yourself why he's so set on killing the Inquisitor, who has harmed no one and led us to some of the witches.

[Norrington]

You mean the witches are watching?

He has answered us twice. What more do you want? You want him to vote for you? You're an idiot.

Alexander, this theory clearly scares you and that is because you know it's true and if people believe me your status as a witch will be discovered.

Don't listen to the Father, everyone. He's been lead astray and he will lead you too. Vote for Fernando on Day 6 and we will see for sure if I'm correct or not...

Please, don't vote for the inquisitor: even if he's paranoid or a witch, he can still be useful in determining whos a witch or not. But you want to vote off the only investigator, who has delivered 4 witches into our hands to be executed. What more do you want?

Perhaps TinyPius meant the Paint-o-graphs he presents us and the scenarios they depict. We see you and you wife in bed with Sergio and Alexander in the same room. That's misleading. Are they having a three-some, or are they meeting to discuss? Are Alexander & Sergio investigating (that seems likely)?

After the death of a player, it is traditional that the Game Moderator posts their affiliation. Now, why would he post the false things. The witches we have burned are in hell, suffering for their herecies.

Once again: why would a member of the Spanish Inquisition who has delivered 4 witches to us, be a witch himself?

Say, Lord Charles, did you have any ancestors from Roman Times? I've heard tales of men that bears a certain resemblence to you.

[Hinckley]

And if you do, be prepared to vote for Charles on day 7, as he'll be revealed for what he has become. Before that, ask yourself why he's so set on killing the Inquisitor, who has harmed no one and led us to some of the witches.

I fully back that up. If you vote for Fernando and he turns out innocent, then yes-please do kill me next. How many times have I said that?

But you want to vote off the only investigator, who has delivered 4 witches into our hands to be executed. What more do you want?

What game are you playing??!!! He delivered one of them, but the others were decided by the other people in town. Bernard is the only one we've killed as the result of one of his investigations. Why are you trying to deceive us, Gustav? Part of the Investigator/Priest/Torturer coven? You've told a blatant lie. Now, what is it you're trying to hide?

[Norrington]

I fully back that up. If you vote for Fernando and he turns out innocent, then yes-please do kill me next. How many times have I said that?

What game are you playing??!!! He delivered one of them, but the others were decided by the other people in town. Bernard is the only one we've killed as the result of one of his investigations. Why are you trying to deceive us, Gustav? Part of the Investigator/Priest/Torturer coven? You've told a blatant lie. Now, what is it you're trying to hide?

Even so, he has not hindered us, has he? If he was truly a witch, then why would he turn over even 1 of his kin?

I am not deceiving, Charles. I have no reason too, and no inclination. Charles, you intend to turn the citizens against those who have the power to investigate based on pure conjecture. That conjecture is based on the fact that the inquisitor has only given us one heretic directly. So what? At least we know who is innocent. Besides, all those that have been burned are heretics, why can't you accept that?

(Can we please stop arguing about the fate of those who have been voted off, please? Tinypius says they're in hell, thusly, they're in hell. Deal with it.)

[Scouty]

Even so, he has not hindered us, has he? If he was truly a witch, then why would he turn over even 1 of his kin?

Maybe because he could be lying and telling us that an innocent is indeed a heretic?

[Hinckley]

(Can we please stop arguing about the fate of those who have been voted off, please? Tinypius says they're in hell, thusly, they're in hell. Deal with it.)

Oh, OK. Sorry... Oh, wait. I'll argue whatever I want because I can. This is my theory, I believe it's true and if you're so afraid of it that you don't even want to discuss it, perhaps we've already lost you to the devil.

I do not believe all of the dead are actually witches, stop telling me it's wrong. It's my theory and I'm sticking to it. You're more than entitled to your own theory, but I have a strong suspicion that we are being deceived as I've spelled out in several posts with plenty of backup. If you're so unimaginative and lack the creativity to see the possibility, good luck with the devil!

And Alexander, maybe none of the dead are complaining about actually being innocent in the discussion thread because they're being good sports and following the rules of the game and letting us figure it out.