Space Police 2009!

[Algernon]

Classic Space was way before my time. After I complete my 1990's Space collection, though, I might start on classic Space.

[CP5670]

Classic space wasn't really even a single, unified theme. There were three or four completely different color schemes within it, and the design styles of the sets changed a lot over the years. The original sets like the Galaxy Explorer had little in common with the final wave of classic space such as the L&S XT Starship. The only things they shared were the minifigs.

[Svelte]

The really striking thing that TLG seems to have applied since Agents, and that we've seen now in Power Miners and again with the varying aliens in Space Police, is that kids don't want armies of generic baddies (such as the jellies) - they seem to like strong-character based groups with distinct personalities. It's a 'collect-em-all' mentality also common to minifig-lovin' AFOLs - eg even critics of the revived Pirates line think the figs are amazing Look also at the Power Miners - each has an individual torso prints, very unusual for a 'good' faction from the last few years. Maybe that's one reason why piece counts are down for some of the 09 lines but the minifigs are better than ever.

[Algernon]

Minifigs are expensive to make, so LEGO must have had a lot of success with collectible minifigs if they're trying out all these new varieties.

Personally I love it. 2009 is turning out to be one of the best years ever for minifigs. More girls than ever, more detail, and more variety. And great aliens!

Edited January 12, 2009 by Algernon

[JINZONINGEN73]

Yeah, I'm glad that they're symmetrical as well as based more on "shape" to look alien than just painting a bunch of ugly faces and or circuitry all over like they usually do.

It's a REALLY GREAT idea, making an in-house Lego space line that is not Star Wars, but with minifigs nearly as interesting-looking as Star Wars.

Take that Agents Helicopter backpack thingie set that's out. Would I but it normally? Probably not.

Would I buy it after noticing the enemy has a STRAIGHT mecha arm element? I did lol. Would've bought a second one to get a second arm, if they'd had more on the shelf.

Same with this Space Police set shown. New cool helmet/alien head element = I'll probably buy it... which is funny, because I'm not even a hardcore minifig customizer.

[KDog]

I just wish they'd find a way to incorporate the current CS torso in a new color like they teased us with in the Farm prelim shots.

Tease? Does that mean we're not getting that torso in blue? :(

[mania3]

It's a REALLY GREAT idea, making an in-house Lego space line that is not Star Wars, but with minifigs nearly as interesting-looking as Star Wars.

Especially to people who are lukewarm to Star Wars. They see that new Count Dooku set for $60, then they see a similarly priced LEGO Space line with probably double the number of elements.

[Asuka]

He he... Pimps in Space... I simply love the humor TLC´s putting into that new theme.

The crafts look, right now, pretty fresh and interesting... maybe a tad too much technic and

too many bigger parts for my liking, but anyway... that fusion of racers and space appears rather

original and promising, and I´m curious if and up to which degree some more classical space design´s

going to show up in these sets...

That helmet alone´s very wonderful and utterly usable for sure.

Thanks for the pics, mania3!

Hmm... I wonder... with that Gone in Sixty Seconds attitude to it, maybe we´ll see some nice alienated

Angelina Jolie MF soon?

[Joebot]

Lately lego seems to create a story in which the characters interact.

Lego never did this in the past.

Sure there were good guys and bad guys but the story-line wasnt already set up for you.

Mars mission, Agents, power miners exo force and now what it seems the new space police all have a similar story.

There is a treauser or some valuable gems.

some have it

some need it

some steal it

its the same story over and over again!

Yep. Lego even has a term for it: "Play Theme." There was a thread here on EB last month where TLC was looking for ideas for their next Play Theme. I thought it was interesting to see what TLC was looking for:

Theme Name (something short and catchy):

Characters (who is good and bad guys?):

Conflict (why do they fight, and what do they fight over?):

Setting (where does the story take place?):

Background Info (if relevant):

Named characters with personalities, a pre-defined storyline, and clear-cut good guys and bad guys. As you said Phoinix, it's the same story over and over again.

I refuse to buy into TLC's perception of kids these days. Are kids really so devoid of imagination that they have to be spoon fed these boring, repetitve conflict-driven stories in order to get their attention?!? I have two kids, and that's certainly not the case in my house!

Anyway ... not to derail the thread ... the space hotrod is pretty smokin'!!

[KDog]

I don't like the idea that Lego would patronize kids, either.

But could it simply be a matter of changing tastes? The toy market is different than when Lego was selling sets in the late 1970s and early 1980s. Many toylines are supported by fiction and kids have come to expect their toys to have that story behind them. No one's saying kids need to have a pre-defined fiction, but I suspect toy companies think they need to add that in order to compete with all the other toylines out there.

And really, Space Police III is using the same cops-and-robbers theme that has been popular with kids for over a century. Even the first two Space Police themes had that. The only difference is that LEGO is emphasizing more individuality among the minifigs with different designs and creating more specific "scenes" with some of its sets. But they still leave it pretty vague aside from some names and a little backstory. There's still plenty of room for kids to use their imaginations.

Edited January 12, 2009 by KDog

[Algernon]

While kids are definitely capable of having fun with a more interesting premise, I'm not so sure they will. LEGO goes with what sells, and apparently this repeating formula does.

[Draykov]

My understanding is that retailers have a lot of data that suggests this formula sells and retailers in this day and age have a lot of input as to how LEGO approaches things. My take is this: the perpetual "grab and chase/good vs. bad" formula may seem patronizing and it may seem to underestimate the intelligence and imagination of the target demographic, but there is absolutely nothing that dictates that kids be stuck with what's given to them. It might be easier to break the mold by branching off into the occasional purchase of a Creator set or brick tub, but kids are not being force-fed anything.

As someone who came out of his dark ages just prior to Galidor, I have no complaints. LEGO and their selection of sets have gotten steadily better and better since 2002. They've had a few slip-ups and growing pains (color change, manufacturing changes, etc.), but things are significantly better these days than they were 6 or so years ago when Star Wars was one of the only themes worth getting worked up about.

Edited January 12, 2009 by Draykov

[Pencoin]

3) That bad guy is Squidman

For God's sake....

[KDog]

For God's sake....

LOL, you're right, he's not very squid-like.

[mania3]

Actually, I think the frustration is that it was explicitly stated that bad guy is NOT Squidman. The bad guy in the poster is not Squidman.

[Zarkan]

Yep. Lego even has a term for it: "Play Theme." There was a thread here on EB last month where TLC was looking for ideas for their next Play Theme. I thought it was interesting to see what TLC was looking for:

Named characters with personalities, a pre-defined storyline, and clear-cut good guys and bad guys. As you said Phoinix, it's the same story over and over again.

I refuse to buy into TLC's perception of kids these days. Are kids really so devoid of imagination that they have to be spoon fed these boring, repetitve conflict-driven stories in order to get their attention?!? I have two kids, and that's certainly not the case in my house!

Anyway ... not to derail the thread ... the space hotrod is pretty smokin'!!

Well, I personally would argue against the perception that "conflict driven" always equals "boring and repetive," especially since so many of the great stories of recent and ancient times have some sort of conflict (although many have more psycological conflict than actual physical conflict). However, I can assure you of one thing: this isn't TLC's idea. Here's a quote from an interview done with Greg F, the writer of the Bionicle comics and book series. In this interview, he was specifically talking about focus groups, and when question about the perceptions that focus groups just ate up anything that TLC threw at them without complaint, he said this:

That is a very common misconception of people who have never attended a focus group. Trust me -- I attended the initial groups we did for Dino Attack when the theme was just going to be hunting and trapping dinos -- beautiful sets, and the kids hated every one of them. They wanted the heroes to be attacking the dinos, so they got redone as more aggressive sets and sold great. Same with BIONICLE -- the kids are forced to make choices in these groups, of which sets of the group they like best and why. These are professionally run groups, managed by market research professionals outside of LEGO Company, so a kid who just says, "I like everything!" won't be allowed to get away with that answer.

There you have it. The kids want action and conflict. They weren't asked if they desired such - they specifically requested kits that were focused on those ideas. This to me is definite proof that the market has changed, and is not like it was at all in the 70's and 80's.

[the_lego_dude]

I'm guessing the set on the banner is probably the Gold Heist set. Because it looks like there is gold dropping out of the baddy ship.

[natelite]

market research professionals? i have my share of experience, and most of the time they are just trying to peddle their ideas. most of the "research" done are skewed anyway. it's like stats. you can create it such that it's always in your favor. eg, if you are not no 1 in 08, try to broaden the range to like 05-07 or 02-08 until you end up with either most sales, most profitable or some other kind of measurement.

i would seriously doubt the research done was scientific. eg, statement: "They wanted the heroes to be attacking the dinos, so they got redone as more aggressive sets and sold great." this implied that the focus group only played with the hunting and trapping set, not the attack and kill set. when you only seen one set, and were asked if you like it or if you like another "imaginary" set which is more violent - would you call that scientific?

it's like asking us AFOLs if we like the new CW count dooku or would prefer one with a molded beard (without actual prototype)? of course the majority of AFOLs having seen the actual dooku but not any examples of the molded beard type would immediately want the later option, since the assumption is that it will be better. is it better? who knows...it was never created and the expectation is that it will be, so most would go with that.

[Draykov]

Actually, I think the frustration is that it was explicitly stated that bad guy is NOT Squidman. The bad guy in the poster is not Squidman.

Pencoin will have to forgive me since I don't know him/her nor his/her source of information. I, apparently, mistook some of what CopMike said on pg. 18 for sarcasm, but am reasonably confident that as an ambassador, he has good info.

Edited January 12, 2009 by Draykov

[Algernon]

72% of statistics are made up on the spot.

[Peppermint_M]

When I was growing up with Lego ('96 my first kits, never stopped buying) there were lots of play themes. Rock Raiders, Alpha Team, Adventurers, Bionicle came in, all of them had stories, told in comics that came in the magazine, as adverts in kids comics and magazines and small two to three page textless comic strips at the back of the instruction book. Alpha Team and Rock Raiders had games to tell a story with too. Play themes aren't new and until recently I had noticed that the only themes that had story and character names were Bionicle.

This new Space lego looks to have a similar idea as Power Miners and Agents, a premise but no limits. A brief introduction to the story a child can make up.

[Hinckley]

For God's sake....

72% of statistics are made up on the spot.

Let's do our best to keep this conversation focused and not spam it up, OK? Thanks.

[Asuka]

There you have it. The kids want action and conflict. They weren't asked if they desired such - they specifically requested kits that were focused on those ideas. This to me is definite proof that the market has changed, and is not like it was at all in the 70's and 80's.

Thanks for that interesting quote that you provided about these focus groups.

I really think that TLC reached a pretty fine balance between individual and generic characters within the Castle line,

and the Agents theme delivers interesting characters and a neat but not overdone storytelling as well. Space Police,

from what I can say by now, looks already pretty promising as well to me, at least I hope that some unique and cool

characters´ll work well as a plug for that new theme.

most of the "research" done are skewed anyway.

The benefits of these focus groups´re for sure limited, and sometimes even dangerous. I really hope that TLC´s able to

handle those things with care. Usually, if you would ask a bunch of kids (or adults) what they want... well, the outcome

could look pretty frightening at times I guess. And beside this, if you would give them exactly what they want... I´m sure

after fifteen minutes of play they wouldn´t be much interested in it anymore...

The challenge, especially for toy manufactures, is not to give the kids what they want, it is to give them something they

will learn to love although they never thought about it in the first place...

Well, at least it was always the joy of imagination that led to my personal devotion for LEGO, and I strongly doubt that

some machine gun wielding dino hunting super hero would´ve caused that much interest for me in long terms... so, yes,

I´m pretty glad that they decided to give me so much more than what I could´ve asked for in that age.

[KDog]

There you have it. The kids want action and conflict. They weren't asked if they desired such - they specifically requested kits that were focused on those ideas. This to me is definite proof that the market has changed, and is not like it was at all in the 70's and 80's.

I don't think kids have changed. In the '80s, Transformers, G.I. Joe and He-Man were very popular, and they all involved violence. And before that, kids played Cowboys & Indians, etc. It's just the ways boys play. And seriously, you don't think a lot of kids played with the very first Classic Space and Castle sets and created battles?

[Hinckley]

I was talking with one of the designers at a recent event and he said their big markets (US & Germany) are really different in what they want. So they end up with things like Dino Attack where they had a US version and a Euro-version. Hopefully, they won't ever have to go that far again.