Wild West

[Brick Miner]

i think they are! Remember the success of Pocahontas? I think it's the context surounding the Indians that makes them very sensitive.

i agree with you snefroe1. i think poor sets design, and handling of the sub-theme was why the indian sets failed... not because of movies. however, i DON'T think that is why the theme was canceled. there were still a lot of possibilities in the theme... like a ghost town sub-theme. no political issues there.

i would still like to think that movies are not the ONLY thing driving interest in entertainment in today's culture. i think if the indians sets would have been designer better, it wouldn't matter the state of HOLLYWOOD westerns. they still would have been better sets !!!

as brickster brought up, these are some of the most detailed figs LEGO ever produced. don't think that helps. as i said before, the islanders were a much better sub-theme, and they are less detailed, and have less overall minifigs (only three as opposed to five).

because of the path that LEGO took with the indians, it really limited the set design... i mean, how many different ways can you build an indian village ??? with the cowboy/bandit line, we had a gold mining town, a calvery fort, a bandit hideout, covered wagon, basically A LOT OF DIFFERENT old west themes. with the indian sets, we saw villages, that is it. with no conflict to play out.

actually, these sets seem out of character for the WW theme... as mentioned above... each cowboy set seemed to explore very unique themes. each of the indian sets don't seem to carry this uniqueness. they seem more like the islander set of the pirates, where LEGO just built sets based on market needs. for example, 6246 exists because LEGO needed a set somewhere around the 10 USD mark. we see 6264 because LEGO needed a mid-sized set for around 30 USD. well, same goes for the indian sets... nothing unique, LEGO just needed a wide range of dollar value sets.

while there is nothing wrong with this technque, it is very different from the cowboy/bandit sets that initialized the WW theme. each of those sets exist for a reason. to cover the calvery concept, to cover the gold mining town concept, to cover the covered wagon concept, etc...

also, each of the islander sets came with at least one pirate (in most sets) to create some conflict. LEGO successfully mimicked this with the cowboy/bandits conflict. but the indians don't include any villains, which leads to some boring sets.

in short, i think the indian sets are out of character for the theme that LEGO established with the cowboys/bandits. and where cowboys/bandits were successful (because of conflict), the indians failed.

howver, that doesn't mean we can't create some great MOCs with the pieces LEGO provided us - BrickMiner

[Djole]

After all,brick miner,thanks for welcome... :-D

Greetings from Serbia

[snefroe]

i think they are! Remember the success of Pocahontas? I think it's the context surounding the Indians that makes them very sensitive.

i agree with you snefroe1. i think poor sets design, and handling of the sub-theme was why the indian sets failed... not because of movies. however, i DON'T think that is why the theme was canceled. there were still a lot of possibilities in the theme... like a ghost town sub-theme. no political issues there.

as brickster brought up, these are some of the most detailed figs LEGO ever produced. don't think that helps. as i said before, the islanders were a much better sub-theme, and they are less detailed, and have less overall minifigs (only three as opposed to five).

because of the path that LEGO took with the indians, it really limited the set design... i mean, how many different ways can you build an indian village ??? with the cowboy/bandit line, we had a gold mining town, a calvery fort, a bandit hideout, covered wagon, basically A LOT OF DIFFERENT old west themes. with the indian sets, we saw villages, that is it. with no conflict to play out.

I don't think it's fair to say that the islanders were better or more popular than the indians. If you check the ratings of both themes on BS, you'll see the sets are both in the same category, between 65-78. Maybe there was a problem with the roleplaying. It is said that lego doesn't produce females cos no boy wants to play with female figs. He doesn't want to be the girl. When i was young and we played cowboys and indians, nobody wanted to be the indian either. So it's not a surprise that the cowboy sets were far more popular than the Indian sets.

Nowadays, it seems to me that, because of cultural changes, nobody wants to be the cowboy either. And let's face it, why would you wanna continue a line that was only successful in the US, that in the end, only takes up 20% of your turnover, when the rest of the world seems to ignore it? Sure, a ghost town would have been fine, but not for lego if those sets were only bought by a meaningless number of people.

[WesternOutlaw]

Nowadays, it seems to me that, because of cultural changes, nobody wants to be the cowboy either. And let's face it, why would you wanna continue a line that was only successful in the US, that in the end, only takes up 20% of your turnover, when the rest of the world seems to ignore it? Sure, a ghost town would have been fine, but not for lego if those sets were only bought by a meaningless number of people.

I agree with you re. the lack of popularity in today's video gaming and movie making environment, but I believe WW was popular in other parts of the world, not just the US. I believe Asian and European countries enjoyed western history as well, just as Castles, Vikings, and Samurai was/is also popular in the US (and not just with Lego).

And did you say Ghost Town? *skull* Awesome idea!

[Brick Miner]

but I believe WW was popular in other parts of the world, not just the US. I believe Asian and European countries enjoyed western history as well, just as Castles, Vikings, and Samurai was/is also popular in the US (and not just with Lego).

wow, i've never thought to put westerns in perspective like this... your a very smart man brickster !!! it's hard to argue the other way, after realizing this !!! see, i've always been told that westerns were VERY popular in europe, it was hard for me to comprehend. but now it makes a lot of sense !!!

And did you say Ghost Town? Awesome idea!

i shouldn't say too much,... but its my next MOC !!! *sweet* *sweet* *sweet*

[snefroe]

but I believe WW was popular in other parts of the world, not just the US. I believe Asian and European countries enjoyed western history as well, just as Castles, Vikings, and Samurai was/is also popular in the US (and not just with Lego).

wow, i've never thought to put westerns in perspective like this... your a very smart man brickster !!! it's hard to argue the other way, after realizing this !!! see, i've always been told that westerns were VERY popular in europe, it was hard for me to comprehend. but now it makes a lot of sense !!!

And did you say Ghost Town? Awesome idea!

i shouldn't say too much,... but its my next MOC !!! *sweet* *sweet* *sweet*

no it wasn't very popular in Europe. late 90's are being marked here in Belgium , as extremely low interest years ... Up untill a few years ago they still had western sets, town sets, space, castle... from 1995-1999 in all the shops. Shop owners complained about the lousy sets, about sets they just couldn't sell...

Perhaps it doesn't really have anything to do with popularity at all... Take vikings, very popular, but extremely short lived.

[Brick Miner]

Perhaps it doesn't really have anything to do with popularity at all... Take vikings, very popular, but extremely short lived.

you know, im still not convinced hollywood has anything to do with the popularity of LEGOs lines... you mentioned vikings did well, and i can't seem to remember more viking movies than westerns in the past couple years.

i am pretty excited about the new pirates of the caribbean movie opening this weekend though... i only wish LEGO would have taken the fantasy approach to their pirate line, like disney has with their movies.

i think all the historical LEGO themes would be more popular is LEGO took a lot of fantasy liberties... again, vikings is a successful line in this aspect as well. and the ghost town western sub-theme would fall into this category too !!!

- BrickMiner

[snefroe]

Perhaps it doesn't really have anything to do with popularity at all... Take vikings, very popular, but extremely short lived.

you know, im still not convinced hollywood has anything to do with the popularity of LEGOs lines... you mentioned vikings did well, and i can't seem to remember more viking movies than westerns in the past couple years.

i am pretty excited about the new pirates of the caribbean movie opening this weekend though... i only wish LEGO would have taken the fantasy approach to their pirate line, like disney has with their movies.

i think all the historical LEGO themes would be more popular is LEGO took a lot of fantasy liberties... again, vikings is a successful line in this aspect as well. and the ghost town western sub-theme would fall into this category too !!!

- BrickMiner

i never said that hollywood and lego lines are directly linked. Lego most definitely never stopped WW because hollywood didn't produce WW films. Hollywood is, however, a cultural mirror of our society and in many ways reflects what the people like or dislike at a specific moment in time. producers and bankers are extremely sensitive about what the American market wants. Right now, the people do not want a classic WW film, for whatever reason. Lego has to take similar decisions: "do we want to produce and finance a line of products like WW?" Based on all the information they have, they're saying "NO", like Hollywood. In my opinion, it's because values in our society have changed. maybe John Wayne will come back one day, who knows... after all, the super heroes of the comics had a nice come back as well...

Sure, Vikings did very well and i can't remember having seen any viking film lately, except for the Ast

[xwingyoda]

Just to add my 2 Euro cents here about the topic at hand: Tks God Lego is not following Hollywood trend that much in general themes !!

Seriously, who wants to have rappers and ghetto gangstars MFs :-| Since hip hop and all that "sub culture" is really important if not predominent in Hollywood, TLC didn't use that momentom. I want that crap OUT of Lego ;-)

Seriously (again :-P ) look at what my generation (I'm 31) had as a kid, westerns, war movies... Great stuff I wanted in Lego and that only came in my dark ages (Wild West) !!

If we follow that TV/Movie trend, no wonder Vikings and Wild West did not last that long !! And I guess any "historical" theme will suffer the same fate *sad* Hollywood did not produce peplums for soooooo long its sad !! The only movie that could have worked at the time was Gladiator ;-) Producing a Roman Theme at that time would have been ingenious !! And I've said that so many times in the Pirate Forum: TLC would benefit from big Hollywood publicity and momentum WITHOUT paying any licence !! Oh well...

Its a shame that kids nowadays only care for license products :-( The only theme that could actually work is guess what ? Pirates (look at all the toy brands that have pirates in their current line up: Playmo, Megablocks...)

Rant On !!

*yoda*

[Norro]

To join a thread very late:

The indian line always seemed pointless to me because they didn't 'do' anything... Sure they could attack the cowboys, but after stocking up on the original sets and not particularly caring for the indian sets I was left with a very small horde of indians charging a massive force of cowboys with guns... I have often thought that haveing two tribes (something Lego hinted at) which fought or had intrigue between them would have beneitted this line..

God Bless,

Nathan

[snefroe]

To join a thread very late:

The indian line always seemed pointless to me because they didn't 'do' anything... Sure they could attack the cowboys, but after stocking up on the original sets and not particularly caring for the indian sets I was left with a very small horde of indians charging a massive force of cowboys with guns... I have often thought that haveing two tribes (something Lego hinted at) which fought or had intrigue between them would have beneitted this line..

God Bless,

Nathan

the indians was the entire problem of WW theme. any one talking about WW, immediately says "cowboys and indians fighting each other", exactly the association Lego didn't want the customers to make. so they were forced to add indians to the theme, but couldn't place them opposite the cowboys/US Army for obvious reasons. as a result, everybody who wanted indians, could just buy them, but Lego kept them far away from the classic association...

[Brick Miner]

Hollywood is, however, a cultural mirror of our society and in many ways reflects what the people like or dislike at a specific moment in time.

ok, i definietely agree with this !!! LEGO is asking the same questions as hollywood is, concerning where popular interest is, most definietly. i just didn't like the idea of people saying hollywood (and when i say hollywood, i mean motion pictures in general) is the dominate force in entertainment... and all other forms of entertainment follow suit. that is to say, if hollywood makes a pirate film, everyone wants pirates... i don't like that train of thought, cause i don't think its true. and don't want to give that much emphasis and credit to movies. its just not right, and LEGO is a powerful enough product, that it can make its own trends.

Sure, Vikings did very well and i can't remember having seen any viking film lately.

case and point. if LEGO has a good idea, that is sucessful... they should run with it !!!

--------------------------------------------------

Seriously, who wants to have rappers and ghetto gangstars MFs. Since hip hop and all that "sub culture" is really important if not predominent in Hollywood, TLC didn't use that momentom. I want that crap OUT of Lego.

HA !!! hip hop LEGOs. now that would be the end of the company that i once knew !!!

Seriously (again) look at what my generation (I'm 31) had as a kid, westerns, war movies... Great stuff I wanted in Lego and that only came in my dark ages (Wild West) !!

preach on about the WW yoda !!!

--------------------------------------------------

The indian line always seemed pointless to me because they didn't 'do' anything... Sure they could attack the cowboys, but after stocking up on the original sets and not particularly caring for the indian sets I was left with a very small horde of indians charging a massive force of cowboys with guns... I have often thought that haveing two tribes (something Lego hinted at) which fought or had intrigue between them would have beneitted this line..

yes, i agree. and made this point in an earlier post.

it seems that LEGO could have taken a more fantasy inspired route with the line, and could have avoided such political issues of "cowboys vs. indians." i think there was so much potential.

its just too bad, cause the cowboy line had wonderfully designed sets.

-BrickMiner

[Dovchenko]

I'm resurecting because this was such an awesome topic 2 years ago.

All I remembered about Western was buying the Indian Chief (the tiny set with the horse) because it stood out against the mini technic-cycles- there was lots of space for them but only a couple left. Must have been selling out over time, it was in 1998 exactly. Picked it up for the horse, got much more. Almost every single piece was new to me. Maybe all of them were. But I remember enjoying the set.

Indians didn't sell not only because of political inquiry and unpopularity... they were also part of a generally lackluster year and were coupled with the Ninja sets... which I DO remember selling particularily well.

And Western... I wish I got into LEGO a year earlier. It's my tenth year w/lego now, I was 4 when I started and am 14 now. I desperately hope the future holds the past... Wild West.

[Klaus-Dieter]

Great topic, Sting!

I luckily own now the most of the WW sets from 1996/97 - they are amazing and I really didn't understand and don't understand even now why TLG abandoned this awesome set.

Maybe it really was a big mistake to sell Ninja sets very short after the WW sets - and without a train with station a/the WW theme is just so happens to be not complete.

But there is hope: Perhaps we'll see some Western Factory sets (next year or in) 2010.

Klaus-Dieter

[I Scream Clone]

Theres no stopping you WW fans is there, way to unearth a 2-3 yr old topic. I would be quite happy to look into WW if it were to reappear (if i could afford it on top of Castle and SW etc)

Maybe TLG will come around to it eventually, though i wager there is probably more vocal demand for a Pirate line.

[oo7]

So I found some photos online of preliminary western set prototypes from the 90's when the theme was new. I immediately recalled this thread from three, four years ago and proceeded to hunt it down in order to perform some cyber necromancy, but I see that ISC beat me to it, although it took a few seconds for me to realise that his post was actually made in July of last year, not in this one. Anyhow, I digress very greatly.

So! Here are the photos projected for an audience this past week at the Comic Con. And look! There are the trains that Sting mentioned in the initial post of the topic (also note the cacti and bison).

See the rest of the photos around this point in Model Gal's flickr stream.

[Klaus-Dieter]

Thank you very much for sharing those pics with us, oo7!

Am I wrong or do the bisons look like if they are made of one mold?! They look brilliant!

But the trains look very <insert that tiresome argument>.

The cacti and the Indian on his horse look very lovely.

Of course these preliminary sets look really not finished since there are much too less minifigs included, nearly no additional stuff and no houses.

But the direction was right to offer us Lego Western fans a bison mold, a cactus mold and some Western train(s). Unluckily TLG missed that.

I hope so much that Western will come back very soon - but I fear that it won't (at least not in the next years).

Klaus-Dieter

[Klaus-Dieter]

Playmobil seems to release some (old) Western sets - gold mine, sheriff's office, stage coach, covered waggon, tipi, fort, minifigs, ... you can find here. That means that these sets are in demand. And this even means that - since Lego and Playmobil often release similar sets and themes - there is a small possibility that we could get some new Western sets. Let's hope!

What do you think?

Klaus-Dieter

[Rijkvv]

I don't think it means anything. Playmobil has re-released sets for years, and from what I know, these are sets that are available only with Direct Service (or something like it, similar to Shop @ Home). The buildings have no figures. I would like to see that TLG releases a new Western theme, but I don't think they will do it because there are some old sets at the site of Playmobil again.

Edited August 3, 2009 by Richie

[Klaus-Dieter]

I don't think it means anything. Playmobil has re-released sets for years, and from what I know, these are sets that are available only with Direct Service (or something like it, similar to Shop @ Home). The buildings have no figures. I would like to see that TLG releases a new Western theme, but I don't think they will do it because there are some old sets at the site of Playmobil again.

You supposably understood me wrong, Richie.

I meant that the fact that Playmobil now sells some Western sets (even if they are only sold via the customer's service and not in regular toy shops) shows that younger children and/or adult fans of Playmobil are interested in (those) Western sets.

And since children grow and get older they then even play with Lego. But they very supposably don't loose the interest in Western. So it would be even for TLG profitable to release some Western sets.

But of course it might even well be that there is no correlation. But reality at least is showing us that Lego and Playmobil often release very similar sets and themes - and I highly doubt that this is a coincidence.

Klaus-Dieter

Edited August 6, 2009 by Klaus-Dieter

[Rijkvv]

Yes, you're right there. I don't think children will loose their interest in Western.

Edited August 8, 2009 by Richie

[Emperor Claudius Rome]

If Lego does rerelase WW, I want the soldiers to be Mexican inspired. Like so:

Also, I want a Saloon!

[Oswald the Rabbit]

Well Disney is planning on making a Lone Ranger movie in a few years-Starring Johnny Depp as Tonto, so hears hoping they are still partnered with Lego and then we can get some Wild West themed Lego and hopefully some Bison.

[Klaus-Dieter]

If Lego does rerelase WW, I want the soldiers to be Mexican inspired. Like so:

Also, I want a Saloon!

Like what? Your picture isn't visible, Emperor Claudius Rome.

I totally agree with you, Emperor Claudius Rome - a saloon is an absolute must for a new Western theme!

Well Disney is planning on making a Lone Ranger movie in a few years-Starring Johnny Depp as Tonto, so hears hoping they are still partnered with Lego and then we can get some Wild West themed Lego and hopefully some Bison.

This shall be no offense against you, Oswald the Rabbit, but:

Only look at what an awesome Arabic knights theme we could have get - but TLG is making it licensed (meaning fleesh minifigs and much more expensive sets) as Prince of Persia.

I really would hate to get a licensed Western theme!

Klaus-Dieter

Edited August 9, 2009 by Klaus-Dieter

[Oswald the Rabbit]

Well I prefer flesh minifigs so I am all for it and I think the new Arabians look amazing especially since they are flesh. Licensed sets are not that more expensive.