The Jolly Roger Figure on the Bicorner Hat

[Barbaros]

Hi all!

Was wondering if the jolly roger (skull head figure + two thigh bones) in front of the bicorner hat worn mainly by Captain Roger, Ironhook and Brickbeard is historically accurate. Meaning did Pirate commanders and captains actually use such a hat with jolly roger's figure on it? Or is the design created by Lego made to appeal to kids and has no historical accuracy?

Anybody got any info on it?

[Admiral Bejaune]

No, It is not historically accurate. Most pirates wanted their pirate status hidden while they where not plundering. If they where to walk around port with a large jolly roger on their hat or clothes, it would make them an easy target for british, french, etc, to see that they are pirates, and their pirating career would come to a short and sudden stop.

[meschepers]

Not accurate. For a pirate to be sailing around with a symbol that openly displays that he is a pirate would be suicide. Pirates made their plunder off of deception. Often they would hoist a false flag and once they were close enough for their target they would drop the false flag and raise the "Jolly Roger."

If a pirate captain was to go into a port wearing a hat with that design on it he would almost surely be arrested, tried and hanged as quick as possible. The sign was a clear indicator of terror and evil and would be recognized by almost anyone. Even though pirates were not horribly common on the high seas the tales of their ferocity and crimes would spread and even get exaggerated as time went on.

edit: dang, HMS243 beat me to the punch.

Edited January 29, 2009 by meschepers

[Fluyt]

Indeed, not historically accurate. The skull&crossbones (or other personalized pirate symbols) on flags was not that common either, most pirate ships just got close by "acting normal" and then hoist their "pirate flag", which was often just a black flag, no fancy skull&crossbones (or something similar) on them. This was often enough for the enemies to surrender, without much violence or gunfire.

Edited January 29, 2009 by Fluyt

[CPT. Jr]

I must agree with the fact that the skull and crossbones, are a no go, however the hat style does work,although any style the captain liked he would wear, so any plain (no insignia/skull-crossbone) would be historically accurate, saying that it is a historic hat.

[Captain Blackmoor]

As mentioned above, it's not historic accurate.

When children think about pirates they think about shabby lads with a skull and crossbone hat. It's not realistic but I don't hate it.

[Mister Phes]

Despite being historically inaccurate, I think the original Jolly Roger on the bicorne was suited to the Pirate Theme and added to its charm.

However, the new Jolly Roger appearing on the 2009 bicornes (and flags and sails) looks a bit silly. It looks stylised to the point where the skull looks like that of a mutant, whereas the original design was spot on.

[Ratshot]

No, I personally think it is not accurate

[Admiral Woodhouse]

No it is not accurate.

[Zorro]

Personally I really dislike the new Jolly Roger bicorne hats...and I think most agree the governor style hats or even the plain black ones look far better.

Eg. on Bricklink the Governor's bicorne is up to 15 x more expensive then the Jolly Roger variation, and even the plain black one usually costs twice the amount! This must say something (except for the fact the Jolly Roger bicorne was probably produced a lot more then both other bicorne hats).

[Legoking]

I think TLC put the jolly roger logo on the pirate flag to make it more appealing to kids. Also, I think it looks much better.

Personally I really dislike the new Jolly Roger bicorne hats...and I think most agree the governor style hats or even the plain black ones look far better.

Eg. on Bricklink the Governor's bicorne is up to 15 x more expensive then the Jolly Roger variation, and even the plain black one usually costs twice the amount! This must say something (except for the fact the Jolly Roger bicorne was probably produced a lot more then both other bicorne hats).

I agree with you Zorro. The new jolly roger logo is not as good as the old one. First of all, I like the old one better and second of all, the new one is like a cartoon sign.

[Huntleyfx]

The biggest thing is that for the Golden Age of piracy (1600-1720's) is that most of the hats that Lego uses are rather historically inaccurate The bicorne and shakos, while both looking interesting, are more suited to the Napoleonic Wars, which followed the Golden Age.