Hinckley Posted February 14, 2009 Posted February 14, 2009 Oh, I definitely agree with you, I was just pointing out facts Am I really supposed to have a serious discussion about race and stereotypes with a guy named ricecracker? Quote
fallentomato Posted February 14, 2009 Posted February 14, 2009 (edited) 2) As for the good versus bad in Pirates, who is the good? Is it the Imperials, who are willing to do anything to get there way; or is it the pirates who murder and steal? Nothing in life is black and white, we learn this fact as we become older. Therefore, we will always be faced with difficulty when we apply adult sensibilities to a children's toy. That's an interesting point, in the story that accompanied the original pirate line, TLC gave both sides claims to the buried treasure. The pirates were native to the islands and knew that there was gold there that had belonged to their ancestors. The imperials came over and were the ones who actually dug it up first though. So we've got some vaguely colonial themes here, but no real atrocities committed by either side (at least not on the box art). Wrong. The lego club magazine gave a summary of the storyline of Mars Mission back in 2007, and it clearly states that the ailens attacked first, NOT the humans. When the humans first come to Mars, their vehicles are simply mining and reasearch vehicles, and only after the aliens attack do they turn them into combat vehicles. Also, in the first online Mars Mission game, the aliens are revealed to be CANIBALS, who eat any humans that they capture (if you die in this game, you hear the aliens burping). It's clear to me that the aliens are the bad guys here, and the humans are simply defending themselves from harm.I think you're reading too far into this. Personally, when I saw that set, I was thinking that the rock monster was STEALING the crystals, not mining them for the humans. Besides, once again it's shown in the actual storyline that the humans never intended to be fighting against the rock monsters, but that it was necessary to in order to save the planet from shaking apart. I'm aware that the supporting websites elaborate on the story to make it the villains seem more villainous and the heroes more virtuous, but not every kid is going to see those materials, so I would argue that the messages sent by the box art and the models themselves are what really define the story, after all, the point of the web stuff is mostly to get kids to buy more sets. TLC establishes the conflicts in pictures and sculptures, in a universal visual language. Based on that, a picture like this could very easily be construed as sending a message that slavery is acceptable so long as the slave looks sufficiently different from you. As far as mars mission goes, the fact that the aliens attacked first in "the actual storyline" does not in my opinion justify rounding them up. That smacks of internment camps to me. I'll say again that I'm not trying to say that TLD shouldn't have human vs. monster conflict. I understand that fantasy violence sells and I love all the cool monster pieces that this means for us. I'm just saying that they shouldn't be depicting anything that would be morally reprehensible if the monsters were replaced with humans. Edited February 14, 2009 by fallentomato Quote
hewkii9 Posted February 14, 2009 Posted February 14, 2009 Also, in the first online Mars Mission game, the aliens are revealed to be CANIBALS, who eat any humans that they capture (if you die in this game, you hear the aliens burping). It's clear to me that the aliens are the bad guys here, and the humans are simply defending themselves from harm. By your logic, anyone who eats a hamburger is a cannibal. Cannibalism actually only occurs when you eat your own species. And of course the aliens are the bad guys-who cares? What whacko would sue, claiming that Lego is racist against aliens? Quote
SuvieD Posted February 14, 2009 Posted February 14, 2009 LEGO wants to design sets where living beings are blasted and then shoved in blue tubes, you didn't expect the to be standard minis did you? In fact, I hope LEGO continues creating odd shaped heads and figures for children to hack, slice, and blast before they are shoved in some sort of cage. As it is, all they odd figures are going to be difficult to amass. Quote
Batbrick Posted February 14, 2009 Posted February 14, 2009 Yeah, I agree with the general consensus that there's nothing wrong with the themes. Well, except Mars Mission. Sorry but I still find it odd, technically we are the invaders. It doesn't matter whether they struck first because they have every right too, we're screwing with their planet and taking their crystals which is their necessary power source. Heck, as much as I hate them, I'm rooting for the jellies in this scenario Oh, and I'm definitely agreeing with whoever said the commissioner should be an alien for space Police, that'd be sweet. Batbrick Away! Quote
Peppermint_M Posted February 14, 2009 Posted February 14, 2009 You know, you could solve all this by taking a "baddie" alien head and put it on a Space Patrol Uniform.... After all, Lego is very customisable. You could buy a whole pile of Insectiods and UFO alien heads and put them on Space Patrol Uniforms. Just Saying. My little brother loves the rock monsters in power miners. More often than not he is making plans on what he'll have them do to the power miners, hat stealing, truck hijacking, it's clearly not making him racist. Ok, so he didn't like the Mars aliens, but that is because they are two part clear green figures with limited articulation.... Give kids more credit, they will grow up racist if their parents and family are racist, not because Lego gave them aliens as baddies in the space theme. Ho hum. Quote
kill will Posted February 14, 2009 Posted February 14, 2009 Well, would you prefer alien vs. alien violence instead? But humans always being the good guys is just because we are humans, and aliens being bad is because they don't exist, and we can blame human wrong doings on them! Quote
hewkii9 Posted February 14, 2009 Posted February 14, 2009 (edited) Well, would you prefer alien vs. alien violence instead? But humans always being the good guys is just because we are humans, and aliens being bad is because they don't exist, and we can blame human wrong doings on them! Aliens don't exist? Umm excuse my but the man next door to me begs to differ! Lego doesn't make these sets with any intent to offend [non-existent aliens, by your own admission], so...why is anyone taking this seriously? hat stealing Edited February 14, 2009 by hewkii9 Quote
Siegfried Posted February 15, 2009 Posted February 15, 2009 Sorry but I still find it odd, technically we are the invaders. Was it actually said that the green-goo-guys were natives? Quote
Captain Green Hair Posted February 15, 2009 Posted February 15, 2009 Humans are propably the baddest species alive, but then you see the movie Mars Attack...... Quote
hewkii9 Posted February 15, 2009 Posted February 15, 2009 Humans are propably the baddest species alive, but then you see the movie Mars Attack...... You thought it couldn't get any worse than Jack Nicholson, but... Quote
Brickadier General Posted February 15, 2009 Posted February 15, 2009 The Daily Show - "My Least Favorite Martian" I was immediately reminded of that correspondent interview when I read this thread. heh Personally though, I don't get what the big deal is. The aliens are pretty much just pure fantasy. The trolls in the castle line are pure fantasy. The rock monsters in power miners are pure fantasy. They are non-existent races, and of course they're often likely to be portrayed as the "other" in relation to their human counterparts. It's tribalism in its purest sense, and that's the way human nature is. The "other" becomes a perceived threat, and conflict ensues. And I'd have to say that aliens are really nothing to get uptight about. Now imagine if the baddies in the new space police were labeled Blacktron 3 and were African American/European/etc.. That would be something to be upset about. Quote
Cardinal Brick Posted February 15, 2009 Posted February 15, 2009 Was it actually said that the green-goo-guys were natives? Do the have to be native? To be allowed to live! Ok that sounds a tad hysterical, I do find the crystal reaper a bit disturbing though when I got it the other day and found the Martian attached to the machinery. I’ll join the consensus that Lego is not doing anything bad with this also it’s the first wave so you never know what’s going to happen. Quote
Capt. Kirk Posted February 15, 2009 Posted February 15, 2009 That's my point, I don't think they are racist, but I just think they should be carefull, before we know they do really offend somebody and what will hapen if that person starts somekind of lawsuit. I think that TLC is carefull. A- That's why the still use "the yellow head" instead of taking several dyes of flesh colour to illustrate different races. --> Of course you could say that the yellow head is Chinese. But then we are on a road with no end. B- That's why the "fleshies" will only be used in Licened sets and will never be used in sets like Pirates, Castle,... --> So if TLC get a lawsuit, they only make it for a customer and he is the one to blame at the end of the line. And like Brickadier General said: The aliens are pretty much just pure fantasy. The trolls in the castle line are pure fantasy. The rock monsters in power miners are pure fantasy. They are non-existent races, and of course they're often likely to be portrayed as the "other" in relation to their human counterparts.... ...Now imagine if the baddies in the new space police were labeled Blacktron 3 and were African American/European/etc.. That would be something to be upset about. I can not say it better. Don't forget that Lego is just a toy and in almost every toy it's about good vs. bad. Please don't make a point of this. Quote
Bobskink Posted February 15, 2009 Author Posted February 15, 2009 (edited) I never would have thought this topic would get so big in so litle time. There are some really interesting and smart points of vieuw and I also had some interesting history lessons. But still, my opinion hasn't changed, although it seems I didn't expres it clear enough, which maybe made this topic a litle to general. Anyway, it seems that I'm not alone with these thoughts. But, like the most people here, I know it, but I don't care, as long as we get cool figures and Lego keeps being mindfull about what they do. Oh yeah, and they should make a Screaming Indy face to balance things out, nobody really could give a counter argument on that part. Edited February 15, 2009 by Bobskink Quote
Capt. Kirk Posted February 15, 2009 Posted February 15, 2009 Anyway, it seems that I'm not alone with these thoughts. But, like the most people here, I know it, but I don't care, as long as we get cool figures and Lego keeps being mindfull about what they do. It's not that nobody don't care.. just do not dig too deep. If you continue follow this way of thinking & questioning - what is you right, don't get me wrong - then in the long run nothing is good anymore. Oh yeah, and they should make a Screaming Indy face to balance things out, nobody really could give a counter argument on that part. It's simply a stereotype. Male heroes do not weep. Quote
Siegfried Posted February 15, 2009 Posted February 15, 2009 Do the have to be native? To be allowed to live! That wasn't what I was saying. I was just saying that for the Humans to be invaders the green-goo-guys need to be natives... or at least been there longer. Ok that sounds a tad hysterical, I do find the crystal reaper a bit disturbing though when I got it the other day and found the Martian attached to the machinery. Me too! I think TLG went a bit far there.... but I still found it funny! Quote
Bobskink Posted February 15, 2009 Author Posted February 15, 2009 (edited) It's simply a stereotype. Male heroes do not weep. That is what this topic is al about ;) . As a mather of fact, I find Marion rather a strong woman with "cohones" instead of the regular screaming dumb girl. Ok that sounds a tad hysterical, I do find the crystal reaper a bit disturbing though when I got it the other day and found the Martian attached to the machinery....Me too! I think TLG went a bit far there.... but I still found it funny! What are you talking about? Got a picture? edit Is it (just) this? Edited February 15, 2009 by Bobskink Quote
Capt. Kirk Posted February 15, 2009 Posted February 15, 2009 That is what this topic is al about ;) . As a mather of fact, I find Marion rather a strong woman with "cohones" instead of the regular screaming dumb girl. Stereotypes sell... otherwise a blond girl with big (°)(°) wasn't so popular... If you look to other toys of Indiana Jones you see Marion Ravenwood like this (by Hasbro and ???): Isn't that a stereotype... Woman / pan / kitchen Quote
Siegfried Posted February 15, 2009 Posted February 15, 2009 Is it (just) this? No. It's... (Please be more careful with your quoting next time; I said only half of that quote...) Quote
5150 Lego Posted February 16, 2009 Posted February 16, 2009 To OP, Its a childrens toy dude. Get over it. There are alot worse things in life to get worked up about than imaginary aliens being portrayed as bad guys. Quote
hewkii9 Posted February 16, 2009 Posted February 16, 2009 No. It's... Oh come on, lighten up. It's just a twisted medical experiment [or, as the Racist TLG would lead us to believe, play feature]! Quote
Bobskink Posted February 16, 2009 Author Posted February 16, 2009 (edited) That's going a litle Guantanamo on the Aliens. It's even worse than I thought. I just can't belive Lego did this. I understand that to stay competitive Lego changes some old rules and guidelines they have for themself. But this is bad, parents buy Lego for there kids because they want them to be creative and don't play with plastic guns, intead they get a mobile torture or life extractor chamber. If a person makes a Lego Auswitch (which was ment for fun and as a statement) they start whining, that they don't want to be associated to that. But capture and torture the alien is okay. Unles I see t'is completely wrong. Edited February 16, 2009 by Bobskink Quote
Siegfried Posted February 16, 2009 Posted February 16, 2009 That's going a litle Guantanamo on the Aliens. It could be life support... Quote
Bobskink Posted February 16, 2009 Author Posted February 16, 2009 (edited) It could be life support... Yeah, could be, but I don't think the kids will see it that way, even if the alien isn't realy imprisoned. The main thing for me is, that this is the first time I'm really disapointed in Lego. I hated the UCS deathstart going up 100€ or waiting 11 years for a Tauntaun, but this is just so stupid of them. It's a cliche to say it like this, but I think Godtfred Kirk Christiansen would turn around in his grave. BTW, sorry about that quate thing, but I don't know how to quote in qoute. Edited February 16, 2009 by Bobskink Quote
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