Offensive stereotypes

[Siegfried]

Yeah, could be, but I don't think the kids will see it that way, even if the alien isn't realy imprisoned.

Dunno. Kids can see things in surprising ways. My boy was playing LEGO Star Wars and at the end where Darth is lifted into the shuttle by the ramp he said with relief; "He's safe now". Kids can see bad where there is good, and good where there's bad as they have less experience to tell them the norms. TLG play test everything so they would have a better idea of how kids see their products than I do. All I know is what I find offensive, and I just find this perplexing and funny. (It's a great set too!)

The main thing for me is, that this is the first time I'm really disapointed in Lego.

My first disapointment was varied mini-fig faces. Times change as I love them now. As for Godtfred Kirk Christiansen, he was a shrewd (to put it nicely) businessman, so I personally think he would be proud of TLG in every way.

BTW, sorry about that quate thing, but I don't know how to quote in qoute.

It's OK. It's just confusing to other readers.

[Dadster]

Between Home-One, The Clone Wars (new Rodian head), and Space Police, the possibilities are endless for human and "alien" (for lack of a better term...) interactions.

But where is Bossk!?!

[hewkii9]

That's going a litle Guantanamo on the Aliens.

If a person makes a Lego Auswitch (which was ment for fun and as a statement)

Do we really need to bring Auschwitz and Guantanamo Bay into this? Lego isn't meant to be this political.

And by the way, the aliens had it coming. Look at this shifty bugger!

[Bobskink]

Do we really need to bring Auschwitz and Guantanamo Bay into this? Lego isn't meant to be this political.

That was not the point of those posts, did you red both completely?

But I just think that there is a possible politic point of vieuw in this, intentional or unintentional.

@ Dadster Thanks for the interesting remark

[5150 Lego]

Yeah, could be, but I don't think the kids will see it that way, even if the alien isn't realy imprisoned.

No, your the one that doesn't see it that way. Your not giving kids enough credit. Just cause you see somthing a certain way,doesn't mean thats how others will. Sinners example of his kids playing with starwars is a perfect example.

The main thing for me is, that this is the first time I'm really disapointed in Lego. I hated the UCS deathstart going up 100€ or waiting 11 years for a Tauntaun, but this is just so stupid of them. It's a cliche to say it like this, but I think Godtfred Kirk Christiansen would turn around in his grave.

I'm sorry, and i really don't want to come offsounding rude, but why does this concern you so much?? I admire you pashion, but I mean really? There made up fictional characters made up by TLC. There not being tortured in any way (and no, having a pipe leading to an alien is not a torture device. ). There are so many things going on in the world that could use your efforts. heck, there are far more worse things in other lego theme's that i would concider "stereotypes" than imaginary characters being portrayed as the bad guys.

[SavaTheAggie]

Some people are just too easily offended.

Personally I find that offensive.

--Tony

[5150 Lego]

I think your right Tony. And i agree with you.

[CP5670]

Some people are just too easily offended.

If you're actually offended by some Lego sets, just don't buy them. The kids certainly aren't going to care about such things, and TLG will produce whatever they think will sell well.

I have to admit though, that picture Sinner posted made me burst out laughing. The humans really do seem to be the bad guys in MM.

It's a cliche to say it like this, but I think Godtfred Kirk Christiansen would turn around in his grave.

I agree with this, but for a quite different reason. The "only the best is good enough" philosophy is no longer taken seriously, when it comes to manufacturing quality.

[Inertia]

Some people are just too easily offended.

Personally I find that offensive.

--Tony

You're a genius!

I think the point of this topic is needless debate.

It's plastic, use your imagination, that's what LEGO is all about!

When aliens invade earth, it'll help to have all these children as anti-alien fanatics, if we look at it in a person's eyes that thinks that having aliens as bad guys is racist.

Edited February 17, 2009 by Inertia

[Siegfried]

Some people are just too easily offended.

Personally I find that offensive.

--Tony

I think we have the post of the day!

[Nikola Bathory]

It's so racist in my opinion.

So? I am a racist myself. I suggest you get over it. There is nothing wrong with these sets. I still prefer the old, Classics sets, though.

Edited February 17, 2009 by Nikola Bathory

[Dadster]

@ Dadster Thanks for the interesting remark

Which one? My wife tells me all my remarks are interesting... :grin:

[Joebot]

Interesting thread, even if it did devolve into a sadly predictable "You're too easily offended!" argument, which is what always happens whenever someone brings up a poltiically sensitive topic.

To those saying "Don't get so worked up about it! It's just a toy!" ... I would reply that no one here is "worked up" about it. No one is threatening petitions, boycotts, marches, or massive letter-writing campaigns. The OP just posed a question and asked for thoughts on the subject. That's what we're all here for, right?

Personally I think it's an interesting topic to discuss. As consumers, we need to be smart and ask questions, and most importantly -- THINK about what we're purchasing, ESPECIALLY when it's for our kids. It's nice to see that other AFOLs think about this stuff too.

[Dark_Avenger]

Looks like Bobskink isn't the only one who took note of this:

http://www.shortpacked.com/d/20090220.html

(As for me personally, I don't mind the humans vs. aliens conflict. It's just like man vs. troll in castle, astronaut vs. martian in Mars Mission, etc. I do find the comic funny, no less.)

[Eilif]

Interesting thread, even if it did devolve into a sadly predictable "You're too easily offended!" argument, which is what always happens whenever someone brings up a poltiically sensitive topic.

To those saying "Don't get so worked up about it! It's just a toy!" ... I would reply that no one here is "worked up" about it. No one is threatening petitions, boycotts, marches, or massive letter-writing campaigns. The OP just posed a question and asked for thoughts on the subject. That's what we're all here for, right?

Personally I think it's an interesting topic to discuss. As consumers, we need to be smart and ask questions, and most importantly -- THINK about what we're purchasing, ESPECIALLY when it's for our kids. It's nice to see that other AFOLs think about this stuff too.

Definately agree. Often times the "it's just a toy" or "don't get too worked up" are just ways of expressing that folks are uncomfortable discussing a given topic, or would prefer a given topic not be discussed. Such feelings are ok, just don't try to discourage others from discussing. As is often said "You don't have to click on the thread...."

Personally, I'm glad that these kind of of things are discussed here, especially since the majority of members have proven themselves more than capable of discussing them in a measured and analytical way. Thought and dialogue are invaluable and not to be squelched.

[Etzel]

I too find this topic very interesting. Joebot makes a really good point here:

I think the issue is not one of people being offended (unless there's a big Squidman demographic out there that I'm not aware of). The issue is teaching kids that the Other (whether that be an alien, troll, monster, or basically anyone who doesn't look like you) is evil.

I think it's really strange of LEGO to make those sets in MM, SPIII and Power Miners. I'm also concerned about so many themes are build on violent conflicts. Don't get me wrong - I don't want all conflict-based themes to go away but I'm surprised that there is so many. Love, peace and understanding on!

And concerning the screaming female minifig heads I think LEGO really needs to make more female minifigs with a large variation on faces and expressions. Then the problem would be solved

[JINZONINGEN73]

This whole thing caught my eye too.

I really don't like "humans good, anything not human bad".

Yes, it's a kid's toy. Yes, I could just not buy it if I didn't like it.

It's not about me, it's about who may be getting indoctrinated with racial superiority complexes.

Then again, people said I'd grow up retarded for liking Wacky Packages, Garbage Pail Kids and "war toy" Transformers... and I'm one of the most open-minded people I know lol.

Also, why do only the Woman have a screaming face.

Ask your mom, RAAAAWR RAAAAWR!

The Power Miners one looks weird because it looks like humans are invading an indigenous race of people (chucking lit sticks of dynamite at their rocky, shatterable bodies no less).

And the alien one... well, I at first thought the guys with the whitish masks over their face were the police... it didn't seem as cool when I found out the humans were again the sole good guys. That's kinda' boring and stuff.

Of course in both cases, it could be explained that these two parties are "organized" criminals, but I don't really see a kid getting that concept anywhere from the product or it's packaging.

[Cardinal Brick]

Hmm I though power miners were sent to perform scientific investigation over why there were a large number of earthquakes rather than invading, I admit they seem to have ended up a bit like Team America.

Returning to space police I think we need to wait and see what happens we may have alien officers in the next wave or something similar or when the back story turns up it may revolve around a human colony which aliens visit rather than an intergalactic police force.

[Wout]

There is a webcomic about toys, called shortpacked, which have made a funny cartoon about this.

www.shortpacked.com friday 20 february

personally when I saw the Aliens, I thought great cheap way for extra aliens for Star wars. I find the "good humans who got to fight the bad Aliens" a bit dumb, but the sets are nice enough.

[Peppermint_M]

I saw that today and it was really funny. I love that webcomic (prepared me somewhat for when I joined, dipping my toe in the Lego fanboy community...)

I still stand with the switch the heads and hands around, hey presto *racial equality* dah daaa.

[5150 Lego]

Then again, people said I'd grow up retarded for liking Wacky Packages, Garbage Pail Kids and "war toy" Transformers... and I'm one of the most open-minded people I know lol.

With that said, why couldn't a child today play with simular toys or Human vs. monster lego themes and not have an once of prejudice? I know i've said this before, but i really think people here don't give kids enough credit, and are putting blame in the wrong place. If a child grows up with prejudice, or i hear a "racist" stereotype from him/her, sorry, i'm not going to blame the plastic toys he/she plays with. My blame will go soley on the parents.

People these days (kids and grown ups alike) never want to take responsibility for there actions anymore. There letting the media influence them more than ever. Is this the medias fault? Absolutely not! If my child one day hits a kid on the playground, or says a racist remark to another indivdual, i'm not goin to blame his Lego sets. I mean com'on guys really?? I mean listen to this..

"Jonny,why did you hit that little boy at school today?"

"Well dad, he had a funny looking head, dressed different and acted wierd. He was different than me, so i felt it ok to hit him."

"Why did you feel it was ok son?"

"Well dad, the in the LEGO sets you bought me, the aliens are bad, and they look funny. So are the rock monsters and evil looking trolls. So i naturaly asumed that anything different means its bad."

Sorry peeps, but i don't buy my kid saying that to me as i'm driving him home from school.

And if that did ever happen, i would not be pulling his LEGO from him because i felt it was a "Bad influence". Obviously, some where I failed to teach my child that stereotypes are not ok. This would be my fault, NOT TLC's. And if i felt i had taught him not to fear whats different, i still would not be blaming his plastic building toys because Humans are good,and Aliens and Rock Monsters are protrayed as bad.

Hmm I though power miners were sent to perform scientific investigation over why there were a large number of earthquakes rather than invading, I admit they seem to have ended up a bit like Team America.

Returning to space police I think we need to wait and see what happens we may have alien officers in the next wave or something similar or when the back story turns up it may revolve around a human colony which aliens visit rather than an intergalactic police force.

As far as Power Miners go,there's nothing to say that it couldn't be the senerio or story you just described. Bottom line is this. TLC can make up a story to go with any theme they create, but at the end of the day, kids are going to do what they want. They will make up there own stories, there own conflict (if any) and own endings. Some will be good,some will be bad. But if they end up some where down the line in there young life learning about stereotypes, best believe it will not be from plastic building toys about fictional characters.

[Eilif]

I agree that parents are the most important influence on kids, but environment and society, including the toys kids play with have alot to do with it also.

The studies I alluded to vaguely before bear this out. In the study, African American kids were given tests to analyze their associations. They tended to strongly associate "black" negatively, and white positively. A similar study found that when given the choice between a black baby doll and a white baby doll, they chose the white baby doll more often. This study was done in 1956 and 2005 with similar results.

I'm not trying to take make this a "racial" thread. The reasons for this phenomenon are many, and the culprits diverse. My point is simply that what we expose our kids too, and what media, toys, and cultural elements we immerse them in does have a huge effect on the attitudes they develop, often times unconsciously.

[5150 Lego]

I agree that parents are the most important influence on kids, but environment and society, including the toys kids play with have alot to do with it also.

The studies I alluded to vaguely before bear this out. In the study, African American kids were given tests to analyze their associations. They tended to strongly associate "black" negatively, and white positively. A similar study found that when given the choice between a black baby doll and a white baby doll, they chose the white baby doll more often. This study was done in 1956 and 2005 with similar results.

I'm not trying to take make this a "racial" thread. The reasons for this phenomenon are many, and the culprits diverse. My point is simply that what we expose our kids too, and what media, toys, and cultural elements we immerse them in does have a huge effect on the attitudes they develop, often times unconsciously.

I see were your getting at, but i'm not sure thats a fair comparision. While i do believe that enviorment can have an influence with children, thats completely different than the influence that one is seen at the home.

In your example, your using tests that African American kids are given to analyze how they see there "accociations" as you call it. These results are findings that children base on what they have learned, as well as obsurved while growing up. Its quite obvious that African Americans have been stereo typed against for years. This is not fiction, but fact. As such, a Parent can on do so much. The point of this thread is the stereo types against FICTIONAL CHARACTERS. The dolls that these kids preferr of the other is not based on real life, and not what media portrays as "Good" or "Bad".

As an African American myself, i could go on for hours about this subject, but thats a whole different subject i'd rather we not get into.

[SWMAN]

I don't think Lego is being racist or stereotyping by making the villains in the Space Police line aliens. First of all, no one is going to be offended, because nobody here is an alien. Second, they want to make money. They are trying to sell toys that kids will like. Making aliens the villains is something that has been in the media forever. They are simply continuing the trend. There aren't offending any actual people or groups, so I don't think it is a big deal.

[Bobskink]

@ 5150 Lego You are right about the fact that parents are a bigger influence than Lego, but I think you oversimplify. Parents are not always there and don't always know what there kids do or think. You could say that it's okay to make toys about porn and racism, as long as parents say it's wrong...

@Eilif Intereting story, I actualy wonder if this will change during these Obama times, but thats a whole other subject.

Anyway, it's still an interesting topic, I think it's the first time I have red every post in a big topic like this.

Maybe we should make somekind of test to do with the kids to see how big of an influence this actualy has, if mine and the other astatements are correct or to farfetched.

But I do know that kids make al sorts of connections each day, again and again, and that there used to be a time that Lego was a toy you could buy your kids knowing it was 100% okay, now Lego, although it's still a very cool toy, it's also become one of those toys were as a parent you need to keep a watchfull eye open.