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Posted (edited)
You misread me. I was not chiding people for having opinions - I was simply getting tired of people using the same generic statments to justify calling themes like Bionicle the worst themes ever. Like everyone else here, I strongly support opinions and heated discussion - what I do not like is when topics get to the point where half the members are saying the exact same things instead of giving good reasons. Now, I'm not saying that everyone has to go into detailed explanations of why they hate a certain theme - not everyone has the time or patience for that. However, when I hear comments like "bionicle is the worst theme because I hate it," I feel that is rather silly. Not all of the members here are doing this, however, so I'm not bashing everyone for expressing their dislike of Bionicle.

The point I'm trying to make is that, while opinion has a huge part in topics like this, some people seem to take it way too far and let it cloud out any objective reasoning of why a theme is terrible. Since this topic is asking what the best and worst themes are, I think people should at least consider their answers beyond "which theme is my favorite" and "which theme do I hate the most." Ex. Someone could claim that Town is the best theme because it's the most diverse and creative theme that doesn't revolve around conflict. Or, someone could claim that Adventurers is one of the top three themes because it has a huge amount of wonderful pieces, creative sets and minifigures, and is a great alternative to licenses. Comments like manage to both be opiniated and well thought out, and IMO are the best kind of post you can make in a topic like this.

Ahh, I see... I don't disagree with that.

I'll take some time to flesh out the reasoning for my choices as well.

Best:

Space - LEGO Space is one of those themes that just lends itself to imagination. The sets are all creative, interesting, and unique. There was a loose

storyline to bond the different factions together, but it was flexible enough to allow for endless imaginative play. Some of LEGO's most intriguing designs came from this theme. The new Space Police is awesome, but for a slightly different reasons: huge minifig variety, designs even an AFOL can appreciate, and plenty of homage to classic Space. In my opinion, this is the theme that really nails the point of LEGO: Imagining vast, fictional worlds and building them.

Aquazone - Okay, I decided to add Aquazone to my list because I forgot it last time. While this theme suffered from a few weak designs, it brought us plenty of awesome concepts and aesthetics, including one of the best bases LEGO's ever come out with. It was similar to LEGO Space in that it created a huge world of different factions connected by a loose storyline, but it wasn't so strict that you couldn't make anything up. The generally disliked Stingray minifigs were actually some of my favorites- I think they're people who have been living in the deep for so long they've evolved to better suit their watery environments. Now THAT is original, LEGO! Unfortunately the 2007 revival was disappointing and captured so little of the originality and aesthetics that made the original Aquazone great. That's saddening, but I'm content to collect other Aquazone sets off of Ebay.

Adventurers - Again I decided to change my choice after more thought. Adventurers is nearly unparalleled in terms of variety, interesting settings, and awesome pieces. It was the original LEGO Indiana Jones, and I think it still outstrips it's licensed update. It was one of the few character-focused themes, great in that there were plenty of refreshingly new settings to go Adventuring in. The strongest aspect of this theme was probably the part selection, which was incredible.

Runner up: Agents - It's rare that LEGO actually succeeds in improving on a theme in a revival, and for that I think Agents deserves an honorable mention. Great designs, cool figs, and nice colors make this one of LEGO's best, but I decided not to put it in the top three because I can't get into it quite as much as the others I've mentioned.

Worst:

Exo-Force - I won't lie: I hate anime. At least, American anime. It's annoyingly cutesy and, more often than not, lazy. So when I found out the highly anticipated new LEGO Mech theme was going to be anime, I was riotous. I was even more disappointed when I realized that the sets would reflect the faults of the art style: simplistic, lazy, and boring. The construction was skeletal at best and the minifigs looked ridiculous. One or two sets might have been worth picking up, mostly for the parts, but generally I think this theme was one of LEGO's most disappointing. We need a Mech theme that's more like Armored Core, not this brightly-colored garbage.

Galidor - I don't think I need to explain this one.

Star Wars - I think this theme lacks what makes LEGO, LEGO. First of all, there's almost no imagination involved. You're basically building what George Lucas already dreamed up and you can't do much with the sets besides re-tell the stories he's already told. What's the fun in that? Secondly, LEGO insists on re-releasing somewhat improved versions of sets already released! What the hell? If there was ever a sign that a theme needed to bite the dust, that was it. I wouldn't mind Star Wars so much if it wasn't so blatantly obvious that LEGO is milking every last drop of money out of it. The sets are mostly ridiculously overpriced re-releases coated with a thick layer of flick-fire missiles. Once in awhile a gem of a set will come out, but two or three sets don't justify an entire theme. When I look at Star Wars, I don't think of LEGO: I think of a profit machine that has nothing to do with imagination. Why are some people so afraid of originality? I'll never understand it.

Edited by Algernon
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Posted
Aquazone - Okay, I decided to add Aquazone to my list because I forgot it last time. While this theme suffered from a few weak designs, it brought us plenty of awesome concepts and aesthetics, including one of the best bases LEGO's ever come out with. It was similar to LEGO Space in that it created a huge world of different factions connected by a loose storyline, but it wasn't so strict that you couldn't make anything up. The generally disliked Stingray minifigs were actually some of my favorites- I think they're people who have been living in the deep for so long they've evolved to better suit their watery environments. Now THAT is original, LEGO! Unfortunately the 2007 revival was disappointing and captured so little of the originality and aesthetics that made the original Aquazone great. That's saddening, but I'm content to collect other Aquazone sets off of Ebay.

I would have included Aquazone too if you could give a fourth theme in this thread. :tongue: As you said, the overall concept was pretty original, but at the same time the sets still shared several features and construction styles with space sets (a good thing in my book, since I'm a space fan). The initial Aquanauts/Aquasharks line was just about flawless, with the big attack sub in 6190 being my favorite, but I don't think it ever reached the same heights again after that. There were still some sets among the newer themes that were excellent though.

As for the Stingray guys, they don't look like they belong in the water at all IMO. :tongue: Their helmets appear to have some kind of chain mail construction that would be better suited to Castle.

3. Mindstorms/Technic - This is a really neat, smart theme that teaches kids basic physics and IT. I haven't bought any Technic sets since Mindstorms NXT (due to all the fantastic Lego System sets), but I still think it's a great theme.

I'm a big Technic and Mindstorms fan, but I think TLG dropped the ball a bit with the NXT and its new parts. The 100% studless design makes it less intuitive to build with and less like Lego, especially for a theme with a heavy focus on MOCs like Mindstorms. I'm not that happy with this change in Technic either, but the Technic models themselves have continued to be very good and many sets are well worth buying just for the models.

Posted
If I may explain my Bionicle and agree why it belongs on both lists. It was good because it was new, I have to say the first generation was fantastic, the second even better but beyond that I just couldn't "get" it and started to see it as a cash cow. Now it's nothing like its roots. If Lego were to (dare I say it) re-boot the theme it could be great. Current building techniques combined with the original story or a similare tale would be fantastic.

Actually, many of the bionicle fans I've talked to feel that Bionicle is in fact going back to it's roots somewhat. Sure, the story is not the same, but the sets are once again looking far more elegant, elemental, colorful, and well designed, with a far small emphasis on launchers, as opposed to many of the sets of the previous years. Also, you may not know it, but 2009 is considered a Bionicle reboot by TLC. The story was getting increasingly long and complex over the last few years, and now they have taken all that away and devised a simpler, more straight out storyline that has few connections with the first eight years. While I loved the storyline of 2001 to 2008, I feel that TLC has done an excellent move with Bionicle, and I hope they continue on this path. :thumbup:

In fairness I warned that it was a subjective definition of system. Although I think the idea of Lego system was complete interaction of parts and scale. Something that bionicle fails to do in my opinion (stress on opinion).

I get your point, but there's different levels of interaction even within basic themes like Castle, Space, and Town. While some pieces like the cheese slope are almost always useful, huge curved slopes from the Space line tend to be less useful in the castle theme, castle windows aren't that useful in Town creations, etc. The themes have never been totally integrated, and they probably never will. And although Bionicle parts generally have somewhat less compatability than other molds, they still have plenty of potential for use in combination with other themes. The fact that TLC has been doing this in some of their brands shows that TLC themselves advocates it, and I think people need to follow their lead.

I don't quite follow your logic. I could apply this quotation to galidor... :grin:

Except that Galidor and Bionicle couldn't be more different. Throughout its entire existance, Bionicle kits have been filled with countless technic holes and even the occasional system stud. On the other hand, Galidor's smooth pieces are almost completely incompatable with all lines - even Bionicle itself. There's really no comparison.

And we'll just have to diasagree, because my definition of system is based largely around 'stud-full minifig sets', although the minifigs aren't strictly necessary.

Well, then I can see why our opinions are so different. :grin: But out of curiosity, does this mean that you also do not support the giant sculpture kits like the Taj Mahal, the Mindstorms line, the current Racers line, or even Technic as a whole?

My point exactly... sorry to take you out of context, but I do think this is subconscious support for my limited system feelings...

Huh? How does that section of my post line up with your limited system feelings? Could you explain what you meant by that? :look:

I'm afraid you've extrapolated a point which I didn't make, rather tenuously, from my statements. (This may be a cultural division in thought, it's hard to read intentions over the internet...)

I think sw helped Lego to procrastinate about fixing it's own product. I didn't speculate about bankruptcy, merely about where attention was fixed. You preclude the possible (though not likely) option that the financial danger forced TLC to fix its product without sw.

Well, that's where you and I disagree. The thing is, overall creativity and imagination was far from the only problem in lego sets back in the late 90's and early 2000's. To me, the biggest problem was the servere juniorization which pervaded much of the area. Themes like Town Jr, Jack Stone, Galidor, and even good themes like Rock Raiders showed a severe trend towards simplistic, uncomplex designs that not only were really boring as builds, but also did not look nearly as good or detailed. However, Starwars did not follow that pattern, as its designs were far more complex and detailed than many of the other themes from that area. In fact, I'd go so far as to suggest that over time, Starwars;s success supplied TLC's eventual reasoning to return to complex designs. The theme wasn't just a licensed theme, it was a well designed theme, and it surpassed many other themes of that area by miles.

But going back to your point. You mention that it was possible that TLC might have reverted back to creativity faster if they hadn't gotten Starwars. The problem is, would there have been enough time to do that? You see, it would have taken a few years at the least for TLC to realize that their current methods were not working, and by then they would have lost tons of money and probably even some of their staff. It's far more likely that they would have colapsed into bankruptcy or have been bought out than what you're suggesting.

But that's besides the point. Because, as we've seen, TLC is fully back to making their core, creative themes, even as Starwars and other licenses continue to be in the lineup as well. I really thing arguing that Starwars has hurt TLC is a moot point now, as the company is obviously not hurting as of today.

"so called"? What do you think (side topic)?

I consider sw less creative, I stand by that. It's like comparing writing a short story based in Tolkien's world with writing your own.

And I really don't see the relation between the number of good sw MOCs vs those in other themes and my point.... I was commenting on a ratio of good MOCs to AFOLs, not a particular concentration in a theme. I honestly feel in this last section that you've failed to read my post accurately, or perhaps I'm not expressing myself well. Although it may just me be an opinion divide as Peppermint_M seemed to understand what I was getting at.

Seriously I'm not trying to force a view of a line down your throat, or attack all you hold dear. Merely explaining my *preference* and the basis for it...

I get the comparison between different kinds of stories, but I'm not sure that this sums up the whole of the argument. You see, having a basic established world like Starwars to play in can also stimulate creativity. Just because many of the basic characters and stories have already been made up doesn't mean that it's harder for kids to make up their own. An X-wing could just as easily be a space pirate raiding ship in a kid's eyes, and a stormtrooper could be robot or human, good or bad, powerful or weak, etc. I think the argument that licensed themes are far less creative doesn't hold true, as basically every theme is inspired by something. It just so happens that Starwars is based off of an established Space Fantasy series - which is in turn inspired by other stories, and so on. Nothing is truly original in the world, and even the designers of classic town, space, and castle were bound to have some non-generic references in mind when designing the emblems, logos, minifigures and other elements that gave them a distinct look.

Concerining the MOC ratio, I may have possibly misread your post, but I still feel that you're being unfair with your acusation that Starwars widened the gap between MOC'ers and Non-Mocers. Looking across Brickshelf, Lugnet, and other sites, I don't really see any lack of great creations. The MOCing community is just as booming as ever, if not more so - and that's not even considering that the fanbase of lego is probably considerably larger than it was before. It may be true that the gap is wider, but if so, it's probably just because there are simply so many more lego fans than before. If Starwars and other licesned themes had not come along, the gap would not be as wide, but the fanbase would also not be as large. It's simply a natural result of licensed themes, and I don't really see why you view that as a problem. :sceptic:

I'd also really appreciate it if you focus on discussing the reasoning behind the choices (as you suggested earlier in this thread) rather than sensationalizing without explanation (as you criticized when applied in an anti-bionicle context), for example:

In the first case you provide no reasoning, merely scorn mine. In the second you speak on my behalf (an idea I never put forward), and then ridicule it.

Okay, here's the reason why I said that. Basically, I feel that on a technial level, you can't actually reasonably claim that Bionicle is not lego. That is because Bionicle has such a huge amount of technic holes, has full compatibility with lego pieces from all themes, and is just as buildable as regular lego kits. If you were to argue that Bionicle was not lego in that respect, than you would also have to claim that Technic was not lego either, and that would be an extremely hard point to get across. Now, as for aesthetic reasons, there's no real argument against claiming that Bionicle is not lego because it doesn't look like lego. However, this comes down to personal taste, not actual fact.

I guess my annoyance over the whole "bionicle is not lego" argument comes from just an overall frustration that people don't seem to want to give Bionicle a chance. Many people that argue against it have probably never actually tried to make creations with it, which really saddens me. Even more so, some people have come out actually denouncing hardcore Bionicle fans as not real lego fans, which to me is unfair and biased. I'm not saying that you or anyone else in this topic are guilty of having those feelings, but I am saying that I've seen it here before.

As for the second of my comments that you referenced , you're right about that, but that was because I misunderstood what you meant about that subject. However, from reading your post at face value, one could logically come to the conclusion that you felt that the benifits of Starwars saving lego paled in comparison to the supposed harm it had on creativity. Though, I supose this feeling of mine also came from an old memory of a post on this forum. Some member named wolf claimed that he would have rather had TLC die than be partly saved by Bionicle (if you didn't know before, it's fairly well known around here that Bionicle ALSO helped save TLC financially). I wasn't sure if you were thinking the same thing here, so apologies for misquoting you.

I know the feeling...

Well now, hopefully you and I both understand each other better. :classic:

Posted

BEST:

Star Wars: Apart from the fact that I love the SW franchise I think this theme really took the TLC to a new level :thumbup: . I know many people think that cause this is a line based in "pre-existants" models it certainly lacks the creativity that represents the TLC but I have to disagree. I think it is actually harder to capture the sleekness and functions that the actual SW vehicles have than do a proper one choosing what you like :thumbup: . Also this line opened a lot of MOC possibilities becuase of all their special parts and minifigs. Also all the support the AFOLs give to the line speaks by itself how we all love this line. The line also introduce the very first lego models with tons of features but still not losing the shape and quality that characteristic the models of the TLC. And to conclude I admit that this is one of the few lines that always go foward and never backwards :thumbup: . So in my opinion one if not the best TLC line ever.

City: This is another line that deserves the title to one of the best. The whole line has really grown in the last three years and every year we see new and a lot more exciting models than before. Also it shows the fastest evolution design-wise. Just look at the construction line of 2005, it was good but nothing to get really happy and now just 4 years later we have an excellent new construction theme :thumbup: . Also it has the best constructions I have seen from the TLC in scenario terms. I think just looking at Green Grocer and Cafe Corner explains this point :grin: .

Castle: I don´t think I need to really explain why it is so great :laugh::thumbup: .

WORST:

Galidor: Simply the worst idea the TLC ever had :hmpf_bad: . Horrible models, useless parts and a also they look like a toy you can get from a Happy Meal :tongue: .

Avatar: Well it seems like this line didn´t had a lot of success and actually it was really crappy. The two sets it has were some of the worst designed I have seen so far. Also it doesn´t have something you really can point out apart from some nice pieces.

Clickits: Why the TLC decide to do such a spin-off is something I still don´t know :tongue: . The pieces are totally useless and actually I don´t think they deserve the title as lego "sets".

Posted

SO here is the to the minute tally of the votes:

TOP 10

BEST

1. Castle - 16 votes (4 first place votes)

2. Star Wars - 13 votes (7 first place votes)

3. Pirates - 13 votes (6 first place votes)

4. City - 12 votes (5 first place votes)

5. Agents - 7 votes (1 first place votes)

6. Space\Space Police - 6 votes (1 first place vote)

7. Adventurers - 5 votes (2 first place votes)

8. Technic - 5 votes (1 first place vote)

9. Bionicle - 3 votes

10.(tie) - Power Miners & Exo-Force & Viking - 2 votes each

WORST

1. Bionicle - 20 votes (7 first place votes)

2. Galidor - 15 votes (11 first place)

3. Exo-Force - 8 votes (2 first place)

4. Spongebob - 6 votes (2 first place)

5. Avatar - 5 votes (1 first place)

6. Technic - 5 votes

7. Mars Mission - 4 votes

8. Knights Kingdom - 3 votes (3 first place)

9. Jack Stone - 3 votes (1 first place)

10. (tie) Star Wars & Scala\Bellville & Clickits - 3 votes

Posted
SO here is the to the minute tally of the votes:

TOP 10

BEST

1. Castle - 15 votes (3 first place votes)

2. Star Wars - 13 votes (7 first place votes)

3. Pirates - 13 votes (6 first place votes)

4. City - 12 votes (5 first place votes)

5. Agents - 7 votes (1 first place votes)

6. Space\Space Police - 6 votes (1 first place vote)

7. Adventurers - 5 votes (2 first place votes)

8. Technic - 5 votes (1 first place vote)

9. Bionicle - 3 votes

10.(tie) - Power Miners & Exo-Force - 2 votes each

WORST[b/]

1. Bionicle - 18 votes (7 first place votes)

2. Galidor - 14 votes (10 first place)

3. Exo-Force - 8 votes (2 first place)

4. Spongebob - 6 votes (2 first place)

5. Avatar - 5 votes (1 first place)

6. Technic - 5 votes

7. Knights Kingdom - 3 votes (3 first place)

8. Jack Stone - 3 votes (1 first place)

9.(tie) - Star Wars & Mars Mission & Scala\Bellville & Clickits - 3 votes

Well despite this list I think most will agree that Bionicle is not worse than Galidor. :tongue:

Posted

I don't have a top 3 because I a more of a moc'er and good part sets come from all themes, but here's my bottom three:

1.Gallidor

-doesn't qualify - it's not even LEGO!

2.Bionicle

-not (simply)compatible with classic LEGO. Yes, it is, but not in a way any young kid could understand. There are some fantastic MOCs out there using Bionicle, but have you ever seen a kid using bionicle and LEGO simultaneously in the same creation? And I'm not talking about a brick-built bionicle weapon, I mean consistenly throughout the MOC.

-killed a whole frakkin' generation of moc'ers. Oh great Johnny, you built a bio-robot that out of chunks of other sets that ended up looking like a bigger version of what you started with!

-little to no small detail pieces

-lately, story has been horrible (not that I even care about story, but for those of you that do)

-comes in non-recyclable plastic containers that end up in the landfill

-stupid shooter pieces

-mostly huge, useless pieces.

I honestly can't think of ONE good thing that came out of bionicle besides profit for LEGO and a couple o.k. pieces.

3.Any licenced themes

-FLESH. ew.

-again discourages mocs a little bit.

-FLESH again.

-FLESH once more.

-As you can see, I'd like lisecence themes if it weren't for FLESH.

Posted

Beste theme:

1 Castle - ( Guarded Inn, Chess, the Midieval market village)

2 Viking - ( CHess, Viking Ship vs. Midgart Serpent)

3 Creator - ( Mythical Creatures)

Worst theme:

- 1 Bionicle

- 2 agents

- 3 mars mission

(just don't like it)

Posted
2.Bionicle

-not (simply)compatible with classic LEGO. Yes, it is, but not in a way any young kid could understand. There are some fantastic MOCs out there using Bionicle, but have you ever seen a kid using bionicle and LEGO simultaneously in the same creation? And I'm not talking about a brick-built bionicle weapon, I mean consistenly throughout the MOC.

-killed a whole frakkin' generation of moc'ers. Oh great Johnny, you built a bio-robot that out of chunks of other sets that ended up looking like a bigger version of what you started with!

-little to no small detail pieces

-lately, story has been horrible (not that I even care about story, but for those of you that do)

-comes in non-recyclable plastic containers that end up in the landfill

-stupid shooter pieces

-mostly huge, useless pieces.

I honestly can't think of ONE good thing that came out of bionicle besides profit for LEGO and a couple o.k. pieces.

Seriously - you're making the argument that Bionicle isn't system because kids can't make great looking MOCs combining bricks and Bionicle parts? Careful now, as you could also use the argument that Technic isn't lego because kids can't make great, complex Technic MOC's combining bricks and technic parts, or that Pirates isn't lego because a kid can't make great MOC's combining boat hulls with themes likes space and town. Measuring the systemness of a theme on the ability of kids to make great MOC's with the parts is like deciding whether a video game is really a video game just because kids can't become experts on it, which makes absolutely no sense. If anything, Bionicle is as an expert theme as regular Technic, as it provides people with many special techniques and pieces, and gives them a far greater challenge - as opposed to Bionicle being a kids only theme.

Also, arguing that Bionicle killed a whole generation of Moc'ers is ridiculous, as you've given no real proof to back that statmenet up. And again, why are you being so hard on kids? You can't expect them to be nearly as good MOC'ers as adults. Even if Bionicle didn't exist, I don't think that would mean that young kids would be better MOC'ers overall. MOCing is all about experience, and experience takes time, no matter what theme you use.

Little to no small detail pieces I can't agree with, as the Titan sets generally use tons of small technic pieces and other doo-dads. And how can you judge whether the story is horrible if you've never paid attention to it? Also, you're absolutely wrong about the canisters - I just looked, and they indeed are totally recyclable. But even if they weren't, why would that matter? The whole reason they make canisters is so that kids can use them to store their sets. They've never been like regular cardboard boxes.

Look, if you want to criticize Bionicle, fine - but arguments yours this show that many Bionicle haters simply don't have any experience with the theme, and have no right to automatically bill it as non-lego and the worst theme ever.

Sorry if I'm getting carried away again. I'm just simply astounded at how quickly people criticize Bionicle, even if they've never actually touched a set. :sadnew:

Posted
Sorry if I'm getting carried away again. I'm just simply astounded at how quickly people criticize Bionicle, even if they've never actually touched a set. :sadnew:

I used to be a Bionicle enthusiast, but not anymore. Know why? It just went downhill. The story, mood, etc is pitiful now. 2001 was the only year that I really enjoyed.

2009 is the best year since 2001 imo, but it's still not quite as good.

Posted

Ok Greviouse. You like Bionicle, however, others do not...

Please can all the arguing stop now?

I like Exo-Force and lot's of people bad mouth it, it happens. I don't leap to its defence after every negative post.

It was established that this thread was stuck in an opinions only replies and one argument, however passionate and well reasoned, isn't going to change people's minds (sadly).

People will like one theme and not another, it's something we all have to live with.

I'm not trying to be in your face or anything but the amount of Bionicle defending you have been doing has served two purposes. 1. It has established how much you must love it as a theme (admirable indeed) and 2. People can't be reading all the other posts, as your many defences of Bionicle cover a lot of the points they dislike.

Arguing it out doesn't seem to be working.

This is a respectful and somewhat careful request for an end to the cycle of Bionicle badmouthed-Leap to Defence as clearly not many people are reading this.

Please don't take offence.

Posted

Best:

Technic construction-vehicles

Creator

Bionicle

Worst:

Galidor

I like Bionicle, technic and systems. I like the minifigure too, although it doesn't really fit perfect into the system building design.

Front

Posted
Ok Greviouse. You like Bionicle, however, others do not...

Please can all the arguing stop now?

I like Exo-Force and lot's of people bad mouth it, it happens. I don't leap to its defence after every negative post.

It was established that this thread was stuck in an opinions only replies and one argument, however passionate and well reasoned, isn't going to change people's minds (sadly).

People will like one theme and not another, it's something we all have to live with.

I'm not trying to be in your face or anything but the amount of Bionicle defending you have been doing has served two purposes. 1. It has established how much you must love it as a theme (admirable indeed) and 2. People can't be reading all the other posts, as your many defences of Bionicle cover a lot of the points they dislike.

Arguing it out doesn't seem to be working.

This is a respectful and somewhat careful request for an end to the cycle of Bionicle badmouthed-Leap to Defence as clearly not many people are reading this.

Please don't take offence.

Agreed. While i do also admire the pasion Grevious has for his favorite theme, to be honest, you can defend it till the day you die, but your not going to change anyones opinion about it (bionicle) either. I'm no more convinced that Bionicle is any better than when i first posted about disliking it. Sorry, but thats just the way i feel and it seems many others as well. Again, i admire your pasion for your favorite theme, but you also must realise that its not for everyone.

Posted
Ok Greviouse. You like Bionicle, however, others do not...

Please can all the arguing stop now?

I like Exo-Force and lot's of people bad mouth it, it happens. I don't leap to its defence after every negative post.

It was established that this thread was stuck in an opinions only replies and one argument, however passionate and well reasoned, isn't going to change people's minds (sadly).

People will like one theme and not another, it's something we all have to live with.

I'm not trying to be in your face or anything but the amount of Bionicle defending you have been doing has served two purposes. 1. It has established how much you must love it as a theme (admirable indeed) and 2. People can't be reading all the other posts, as your many defences of Bionicle cover a lot of the points they dislike.

Arguing it out doesn't seem to be working.

This is a respectful and somewhat careful request for an end to the cycle of Bionicle badmouthed-Leap to Defence as clearly not many people are reading this.

Please don't take offence.

I don't take offense, but I don't see why you're asking this. You're saying that it's wrong for me to be defending a theme I like? Yes, I've been doing it constantly in this topic, but it's only because people keep giving bad reasons for their dislike of the theme. Look, I have NOTHING against people who despise bionicle as a theme. What I do dislike is posts that don't give good reasons for their dislike of the theme. Look, compare these two fictional posts:

I don't like bionicle because I hate the style. It looks too much like an action figure line and not a real lego line. I prefer lines that use studs and/or minimal amounts of technic pieces. Bionicle also has too many big, detailed molds, which are harder to use in MOCs than small, stud based pieces.
I think bionicle is the worst lego theme because it's not lego! The pieces are almost totally useless, the storyline is garbage, and the line isn't part of the system.

Now, quote one is not only a perfectly valid opinion, but also is a very well written post, and there's not a single way I or anyone else could debunk anything that he said. He expressed his opinions while showing that it was just his personal taste, which is IMO how posts like that should be written.

On the other hand, post two is also a valid opinion, but the problem is that the writer is elevating his thoughts to an almost factual statment. This may or may not be his intent, but the way he's written it makes it look like he views his opinions as fact. Because of the lost translation of emotion through the internet, I really feel that people need to make an effort to explain why they think things, instead of making generic staments that don't offer any reasoning. That way, other people can tell what this person is really thinking, and why he has his opinions. :classic:

Look, I know I may have been getting carried away a bit, but I think a lot of people can understand why I'm doing this. I'm not against opinions, I'm just against ones that are not explained, and I think everyone on this and other forums could benefit if we all took a little time to explain our thoughts. Internet message boards may be one of the coolest things out there, but their system is not perfect, and we all need to realize this and take time to explain our thoughts. :wink:

I used to be a Bionicle enthusiast, but not anymore. Know why? It just went downhill. The story, mood, etc is pitiful now. 2001 was the only year that I really enjoyed.

2009 is the best year since 2001 imo, but it's still not quite as good.

Eh? I was never refering to you, Algernon. I'm refering to people who never gave Bionicle a chance, and it's obvious that you have. :tongue:

Posted

I would like to state my opinion about Bionicle. To start, let me say that I have every original Turaga and Toa, and all of the original Toa Nuva with the cool armor. I still got one or two of each wave for a couple years, but now I have stopped altogether.

Bionicle cannot be called system. The parts, while adults who are masters at building can combine them, are very hard for children to incorporate with regular LEGO bricks. But that does not make them useless or silly in any way.

I personally find the story line after the first couple not confusing but just a bit weird and repetitive, but I think kids like it very much. Like the story line, I feel the figures themselves have become very repetitive, and a bit overpriced in the last year or two. I can see a case being made that this year's sets are an improvement, but I still find the sets to all be very similar. I know someone who has always thought all the Bioncile lines look the same, and when I was buying them I disagreed, but now I believe he was almost right.

Still, as I have seen said many places on Eurobricks before, "No LEGO pieces are useless." I think that should be kept in mind when discussing Bionicle. Just because one person finds Bioncile impossible to incorporate, others find many uses for it, and that applies to all LEGO parts (even stuff like Clikits, I've seen it done).

Posted

I happen to think that no theme can be called bad for the pieces it has (except galidor :sick:) rather the way it is executed.

Now on to the list.

Best:1. Star Wars- I find that Star Wars is a fun and well balanced theme that captures the fun of buying lego very well.

2. Agents- Although it is new, the ideas and uniqueness of the sets make this theme impossible to ignore rather to swipe up all the sets I can get.

3. Bionicle- At this point I hate bionicle. But before now bionicle was the greatest thing on earth. Before 2006 there was so much variety and there was so much enjoyment to the theme. I may not like it now but it still was awesome.

Worst: 1. Indiana jones- I find that these sets are amusing put they are more or less a showcase of rare pieces and not much of sets.

2. Exo-force- I hate manga and the second I saw it on lego I felt betrayed.

3. Spongebob- If they put more effort into producing good sets it would have so much potential.

Posted

Best:

1. Star Wars, Star Wars, Star Wars!

2. Indy Jones

3. Castle

I love all of the Castle buildings, and the wide variety of armor for the Crowny/Crownie minifigures. :tongue: I also love the new skeletons they introduced, and the troll helmets and armor.

I don't understand anyone's beef with Indiana Jones. TLG did a pretty amazing job with this theme, and is still taking it all the way. I love Race for Stolen Treasure and the who detailed car style. I'm definitely looking forward to The Temple of Doom set, though I won't be getting it.

And as for Star Wars, anyone with the word "Darth" in their screen name doesn't need a reason. :tongue:

Now for the worst:

1. Spongebob

2. Avatar

3. None.

Now I'm not trying to pick on Nickelodeon but here's why I dislike these two: Spongebob has very cool minifigures, but it could go so much further. The buildings are all very boring and not too complicated. They are aimed for very young ages, but really, the biggest Spongebob set I could do in minutes. Not to mention the price of all these and the fact that they re-released two sets with slightly different parts in them. As for Avatar, the whole theme was a waste. Though maybe the Mo-mo Lemur piece could be used as a Kowakian Monkey-Lizard in Star Wars!

The rest, Pirates, Space Police, Bionicle, NXT, Power Miners, Agents, Harry Potter, these sare all amazing themes, but none are my favorite simply. Maybe not so much with Exo-Force. That would go in the "1 before worst."

Posted

BEST LICENSED THEMES

Indiana Jones

Star Wars

SpongeBob

WORST LICENSED THEMES

Galidor

NBA

Mickey Mouse

========================

BEST ORIGINAL THEMES

City

Pirates

Space

WORST ORIGINAL THEMES

Alpha Team

LEGO Island Xtreme Stunts

Bionicle

Posted
I would like to state my opinion about Bionicle. To start, let me say that I have every original Turaga and Toa, and all of the original Toa Nuva with the cool armor. I still got one or two of each wave for a couple years, but now I have stopped altogether.

Bionicle cannot be called system. The parts, while adults who are masters at building can combine them, are very hard for children to incorporate with regular LEGO bricks. But that does not make them useless or silly in any way.

I personally find the story line after the first couple not confusing but just a bit weird and repetitive, but I think kids like it very much. Like the story line, I feel the figures themselves have become very repetitive, and a bit overpriced in the last year or two. I can see a case being made that this year's sets are an improvement, but I still find the sets to all be very similar. I know someone who has always thought all the Bioncile lines look the same, and when I was buying them I disagreed, but now I believe he was almost right.

Still, as I have seen said many places on Eurobricks before, "No LEGO pieces are useless." I think that should be kept in mind when discussing Bionicle. Just because one person finds Bioncile impossible to incorporate, others find many uses for it, and that applies to all LEGO parts (even stuff like Clikits, I've seen it done).

Well, this is a very interesting opinion, Clone. While I can't really agree with you about the system part (for reasons I've already stated), I think you make some very valid points, and I'm glad you took the time to explain them. I do totally understand why people often call the sets all the same - especially in the last few years, most of the sets have been using the same basic design with variations. This is mainly because most Bionicle sets are generally humanoid designs, and that lends to limited variation among the sets.

Thus, I can see why people would view Bionicle as repetitive. However, I think many Bionicle fans (including me) generally overlook the repetitiveness of humanoid designs and focus on the positive new features with each wave. Bionicle fans generally seem to have different tastes than pure stud set fans, and I suppose the very nature that is Bionicle lends to different interests.

Then again, most expert Bionicle builders rarely build the sets as they are anyway. Jinzo, one of the finest builders here, buys sets only for the parts, and I can understand why. The good news is that each line of Bionicle sets brings more and more new parts and recolors, and that is what IMO makes the theme such a great potential tool for MOCing. :wink:

Posted

I agree that people should explain themselves better (darklego86, Justin... hmmm?)

But defending theme's people have a set opinion on won't work. Sadly the internet is full of stuborn and hard headed people and sometimes one must admit defeat (which I am here, over the stop the arguments request.It ain't going to work, I respect that and move on)

So a brief question. What puts Agents in your list darklego? And why Alpha Team in your's Justin? (If its the arctic stuff I totally agree, Zed was the only decent addition at that point)

Ho hum.

Posted
I agree that people should explain themselves better (darklego86, Justin... hmmm?)

But defending theme's people have a set opinion on won't work. Sadly the internet is full of stuborn and hard headed people and sometimes one must admit defeat (which I am here, over the stop the arguments request.It ain't going to work, I respect that and move on)

So a brief question. What puts Agents in your list darklego? And why Alpha Team in your's Justin? (If its the arctic stuff I totally agree, Zed was the only decent addition at that point)

Ho hum.

Heh, if anyone, I should know about being stubborn. :tongue: But I guess I should give it a break now. I'm kinda getting tired of typing huge posts anyway - doing it ocassionally is okay, but I don't have the paitence to do it every single day! :wink:

On another note, ever since the first good pictures of Agents came out, I've considered the theme to be far more successful in capturing the James Bond spy camp factor than Alpha Team ever did - especially with the minifigures. Also, the vehicles and buildings are superior as well IMO. Ogel's original base never deserved to be called a Volcano Base, while Dr. Inferno's base rightfully claims that title as it's own. :wink:

Posted

Agents is a wonderful and rightful succcessor to Alpha Team. I like both themes and I am planning on a combination (It's already happening in my "layout" after my last playtime :tongue:) I think its going to be the best theme for a while yet, or at least until we get SPIII in the UK.

I'm just wondering what those guys problems with the respective themes are, every opinion is intresting (I did sociology for fun at A-Level... Says a lot really) I can understand the dislike of Power Miners (not accept, just understand.) and Galidor was a whole pile of meh.

Posted (edited)

I find it hard to compare present themes with the old ones. The nostalgic feeling of classic sets can often make those sets seem better then they are and new sets with parts that didn't existed before can be seen in the same way. Therefore I will only use present themes in my list.

Best themes

1. Castle. I have a strong interest in history and especially the medieval times. The sets are often focused on buildings and with a lot of opportunities to great MOCing. A lot of the pieces has earthly colours that is goo for landscaping and there is a good amount of different minifigs. :thumbup:

2. Pirates. About the same reasons as Castle. The buildings aren't really good but the minifigs are truly amazing! :wub:

3. Creator. This theme is so LEGO! I regret that I don't have that much sets from this theme because I think it I would enjoy it more then. The classic idea of alternative models and a large number of different pieces. I think the sets are beautiful and very well designed. The only thing that has prevent me from getting them is the lack of minifigs. It would of course look completely ridiculous with minifigs in Creator and I don't want LEGO to make such sets, but since I am a minifig-lover I often choose other sets.

Worst themes (where 1 is worst in case anyone was confused by others lists (I was :blush: ) )

1. Bionicle. Yes I will explain why :tongue: . First, I don't like the concept of action figures. They are made for playing and I don't play with my LEGO. I build. Second. The pieces are (almost) impossible to use in my MOCs. I mostly build minifig scaled MOC, like buildings and landscape scenes and I can't see where I can have use of Bionicle pieces. In my opinion Bionicle parts are just good for building large robot-looking-monsters. Now, I don't own any Bionicle myself so some might say I'm not in the position to criticize the theme. But why on earth would I buy a set that I don't like and can't use? If someone can show my examples of good MOCs with bionicle parts I might change my mind, but this far the only Bionicle MOCs I've seen have been the same kind of strange looking robot-monsters.

2. Racers. OK, the minicars looks ok to my, except all those stickers :sick: But the bigger ones are really ugly. They don't even look like cars to me! And all these stupid play features: Slam Action! Fold Out Race Track! Motor Action! It just makes me tired. I don't want to play, I want to build! :sing:

3. Power Miners. Worst. Colour Scheme. Ever. And just a bunch of ugly looking vehicles with large unuseable pieces. The back story is also really bad, can't figure out how anyone could't came up with such silly story. Small monsters living in caves deep inside the earth suddenly starts to cause earthquekes that threatens the world? Come on. :hmpf:

There are other themes I'm not really fond of, like Mars Mission, Agents, Star Wars and Technic but I want go on about them now. It would be a very negative post then. :tongue:

Other themes that I do like is Indiana Jones (despite the fleshies) and City. :thumbup:

I hope I haven't been to whining. LEGO is still the best. :thumbup:

Edit: some spelling mistakes.

Edited by Etzel

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