Top 3 Best\Worst Themes

[Norro]

Now that I have time, I'm going to clarify ... Don't worry all those wary of argument, bionicle pieces may pierce my feet but words will never hurt my sense of Lego puritanism...

I get your point, but there's different levels of interaction even within basic themes like Castle, Space, and Town. While some pieces like the cheese slope are almost always useful, huge curved slopes from the Space line tend to be less useful in the castle theme, castle windows aren't that useful in Town creations, etc.

With all due respect, I think you're on to a losing argument here. This is exactly what I love about the lego system, it's ability to merge parts. I own less castle than other themed sets, yet it is virtually all I build, and my useless parts bag is still only confined to large juniourized molds and bionicle... I really just can't agree with this assessment, and it comes down to the stud. more later.

The fact that TLC has been doing this in some of their brands shows that TLC themselves advocates it, and I think people need to follow their lead.

Side note. I'm not much of a follower...

Except that Galidor and Bionicle couldn't be more different. Throughout its entire existance, Bionicle kits have been filled with countless technic holes and even the occasional system stud. On the other hand, Galidor's smooth pieces are almost completely incompatable with all lines - even Bionicle itself. There's really no comparison.

The comparison was of your wording and the aptness of your defense, not of the themes themselves. But you have put your finger on a vital issue, the technique pins are galidor's sole claim to being Lego as well... Which leads me to the crux of my opposition:

Technique is a semi-independent entity, it is the stud that allows it to join the lego 'system' so claiming technique holes as a basis for Lego membership is in your view decisive, and in mine merely proof that it connects to something which itself connects to pure Lego... tenuous at best... This is an opinion. I can't shift you and most likely vice-versa.

Huh? How does that section of my post line up with your limited system feelings? Could you explain what you meant by that?

You describe Bionicle as having potential of it's "own". My point exactly. Even you see it as an independent enough entity to use the word 'own'. You wouldn't say that pirates could be a toy on it's 'own' without any of the Lego based features (i.e. the studs, figs, etc...)

Well, that's where you and I disagree. The thing is, overall creativity and imagination was far from the only problem in lego sets back in the late 90's and early 2000's. To me, the biggest problem was the servere juniorization which pervaded much of the area. Themes like Town Jr, Jack Stone, Galidor, and even good themes like Rock Raiders showed a severe trend towards simplistic, uncomplex designs that not only were really boring as builds, but also did not look nearly as good or detailed.

Cultural problems again here. We appear (to me) to be saying the same thing. Lack of creativity and imagination manifests itself in simplicity and juniorization... I have to admit it makes it harder to respond to your reasoning when you restate my case as a counter argument...

But going back to your point. You mention that it was possible that TLC might have reverted back to creativity faster if they hadn't gotten Starwars. The problem is, would there have been enough time to do that? You see, it would have taken a few years at the least for TLC to realize that their current methods were not working, and by then they would have lost tons of money and probably even some of their staff. It's far more likely that they would have colapsed into bankruptcy or have been bought out than what you're suggesting.

Very subjective. Top 10 brands don't normally "colapse" that easily... I think this is taking us further away from my points so I'm not going to pursue the financial situation that you keep trying to link to the output. I know TLC was in trouble, I know SW/Bionicle saved them. I just wish they had addressed the rot instead of looking for a bailout (contemporary echo, impressive eh? )

I get the comparison between different kinds of stories, but I'm not sure that this sums up the whole of the argument. You see, having a basic established world like Starwars to play in can also stimulate creativity. Just because many of the basic characters and stories have already been made up doesn't mean that it's harder for kids to make up their own. An X-wing could just as easily be a space pirate raiding ship in a kid's eyes, and a stormtrooper could be robot or human, good or bad, powerful or weak, etc. I think the argument that licensed themes are far less creative doesn't hold true, as basically every theme is inspired by something. It just so happens that Starwars is based off of an established Space Fantasy series - which is in turn inspired by other stories, and so on. Nothing is truly original in the world, and even the designers of classic town, space, and castle were bound to have some non-generic references in mind when designing the emblems, logos, minifigures and other elements that gave them a distinct look.

Sorry, everything is based on something; "there is nothing new under the sun" according to Ecclesiastes. But that assertion doesn't justify placing 'reenacting' and 'creating' on a level plain. If, as you indicate, creativity is always constrained, you are implicitly accepting that it is the least limited when it is the least constrained. Starwars is a greater constraint than space, etc...

I'm going to have to admit I think that one is pretty conclusive...

Okay, here's the reason why I said that. Basically, I feel that on a technial level, you can't actually reasonably claim that Bionicle is not lego. That is because Bionicle has such a huge amount of technic holes, has full compatibility with lego pieces from all themes, and is just as buildable as regular lego kits. If you were to argue that Bionicle was not lego in that respect, than you would also have to claim that Technic was not lego either, and that would be an extremely hard point to get across. Now, as for aesthetic reasons, there's no real argument against claiming that Bionicle is not lego because it doesn't look like lego. However, this comes down to personal taste, not actual fact.

One word: studs. Ultimately, in my opinion, technique integrates with Lego by virtue of the studded brick. Bionicle is a step further removed, than Technique. Which itself is claimed by Lego to be semi-independent...

Nathan

[Peppermint_M]

So much Alpha Team hate... am I the only one who actually liked that theme?

I love Alpha Team, if it weren't for Agents I'd be hunting down the sets to complete my collection .

I just wish people would read the past six pages and give an explanation as to why they rate these themes in "worst" and "best" instead of just listing them.

[Norro]

I love Alpha Team, if it weren't for Agents I'd be hunting down the sets to complete my collection .

I judge Alpha Team far too harshly... When I first saw the pictures of the figs in Lego's trailer magazine I thought that they had finally granted my dream of an urban city sub theme of spies. Then when the sets came out they were predictably unbelievable. I should have expected the sets would lean towards the surreal. But I was disappointed none the less. How's that for subjective?

God Bless,

Nathan

[Zarkan]

Since I don't feel like arguing much longer, I'm just going to adress a few points Norro made:

With all due respect, I think you're on to a losing argument here. This is exactly what I love about the lego system, it's ability to merge parts. I own less castle than other themed sets, yet it is virtually all I build, and my useless parts bag is still only confined to large juniourized molds and bionicle... I really just can't agree with this assessment, and it comes down to the stud. more later.

Eh? How did you get that out of what I posted? I was only stating that certain studful pieces are far less useful in certain themes. And besides, it's already been said that you can merge Bionicle parts and stud parts as well. How exactly am I onto a losing argument?

The comparison was of your wording and the aptness of your defense, not of the themes themselves. But you have put your finger on a vital issue, the technique pins are galidor's sole claim to being Lego as well... Which leads me to the crux of my opposition:

Well, first of all, Bionicle has also had stud parts and other non-technic parts in it's kitsas well, such as the doctor octopus hands. But secondly, Bionicle has so many more technic holes than Galidor, which only ever used them as connection points. While the average galidor part has one or two molded on technic pins (which I may add are less useful than technic holes), Bionicle parts often have anywhere from three to over 10 technic holes. There's actually very little comparison between the two themes - while Bionicle parts have always been designed to be used in multiple ways, every single galidor part was made to only be used as limbs on an action figure, nothing more.

Technique is a semi-independent entity, it is the stud that allows it to join the lego 'system' so claiming technique holes as a basis for Lego membership is in your view decisive, and in mine merely proof that it connects to something which itself connects to pure Lego... tenuous at best... This is an opinion. I can't shift you and most likely vice-versa.

That's it then. This is why we disagree so much. You see, I really view Technic as just another part of the system, not a seperate entity. It to me is just one of the newer innovations in lego parts, and especially in recent kits it has become many recent lego lines (and while that sometimes gets annoying, overall I think that's a good thing). Just because Technic was introduced later in lego's lifetime doesn't mean that it's a separate entity. To me, it's become an important part of a system, and this is the real reason why I view Bionicle part of the system as well.

Cultural problems again here. We appear (to me) to be saying the same thing. Lack of creativity and imagination manifests itself in simplicity and juniorization... I have to admit it makes it harder to respond to your reasoning when you restate my case as a counter argument...

Well, I'll give you that. However, simplicity and juniorzation were never present in the Starwars line, as the kits always have been detailed and well designed. If Starwars was so uncreative, then why were the kits so excellent? The same could be said about Indiana Jones, Batman, Spongebob, almost every other recent licensed theme. They've all been filled with well designed kits with excellent figures, great piece selections, and plenty of great play features. TLC could have just reasoned that "whether the kits are well designed or not, they'll still sell" because of them being licesned themes, but they didn't do that. And that to me is a sign of creativity - just a different kind.

Very subjective. Top 10 brands don't normally "colapse" that easily... I think this is taking us further away from my points so I'm not going to pursue the financial situation that you keep trying to link to the output. I know TLC was in trouble, I know SW/Bionicle saved them. I just wish they had addressed the rot instead of looking for a bailout (contemporary echo, impressive eh? )

Think is, they did begin to adress the rot very soon after introducing those two themes. Starting with 2003, which was less than two years after Bionicle's launch, lego began to introduce excellent themes like Orient Expedition and Designer, which steered away from juniorization. Two years later, they reintroduced City and brought back history based themes (Vikings). Two years later, they brought back Castle and introduced Mars Mission (which I now feel was just a gradual step back to the proper space theme that we're not getting this year). And two more years later, we now have a reuniting of all four evergreen themes.

The point is that because lego feel so deeply into trouble, it took a gradual effort to restore all its greatness. They couldn't have simply brought back all their classic lego themes and ways of design. The only way to do that would have been to rewind the clock back to 1994, and that would not have been the least bit innovative. You see, lego has always been moving in a new direction - that's the way their company has been throughout all the years. The current revivals of classic themes are really less of a revival as much as a new, innovative spin on the old lines. In order to keep with their image, TLC had to go in a new direction with their classic themes, and that is what they did. The current place they are in was never a step backwards to the classic age as much as it was yet another new direction - one that combined classic themes and building techniques with current styles and building methods. And without Bionicle and Starwars, they may not have had a chance to do all of that.

Sorry, everything is based on something; "there is nothing new under the sun" according to Ecclesiastes. But that assertion doesn't justify placing 'reenacting' and 'creating' on a level plain. If, as you indicate, creativity is always constrained, you are implicitly accepting that it is the least limited when it is the least constrained. Starwars is a greater constraint than space, etc...

I'm going to have to admit I think that one is pretty conclusive...

I'll give you that as well. The problem is, as far as I can tell, some people here seem to be suggesting that just because licensed themes are less creative than generic themes like Castle and Space, that in some way they are not creative at all, and should not even exist. I'm not saying you're doing that, but it still is unsettling to me. Is licensing a theme really wrong? After all, the licensed themes aren't affecting TLC's creativity right now - TLC has been introducing two or three brand new themes every year, which is equal or more than the amount of licesned themes introduced every year. And that isn't even considering that lego produces far more themes currently than they did 20 years ago. To me, since licensed themes are really just supplements or partners to the equally impressive main product line, there's nothing wrong with them existing. After all, most young fans want licensed themes (as well as many adults), so it's in TLC's best interest as a for-profit orginazation to add them to their product line.

One word: studs. Ultimately, in my opinion, technique integrates with Lego by virtue of the studded brick. Bionicle is a step further removed, than Technique. Which itself is claimed by Lego to be semi-independent...

Did TLC actually say that technic was semi-independent? I'm serious - could you give me a quote on this? And besides, even if they believe that, it doesn't mean that it's true.

[CP5670]

Interesting discussion here.

That's it then. This is why we disagree so much. You see, I really view Technic as just another part of the system, not a seperate entity. It to me is just one of the newer innovations in lego parts, and especially in recent kits it has become many recent lego lines (and while that sometimes gets annoying, overall I think that's a good thing). Just because Technic was introduced later in lego's lifetime doesn't mean that it's a separate entity. To me, it's become an important part of a system, and this is the real reason why I view Bionicle part of the system as well.

A few comments on this point, Technic actually has a long history and has been around for as long as the minifig. However, the trend towards removing the studs from everything is relatively recent and started around 1999 or 2000, and by 2002 most sets had almost no studs at all.

I'm a big Technic fan, but I partly agree with Norro on this issue. I use a good mix of both types of construction in my MOCs, but I don't like how TLG has made Technic sets completely studless and almost seems to have made a deliberate effort to remove the studs in many cases. The actual models have continued to be great, but the construction often feels less intuitive and less like Lego than it used to.

[Zarkan]

A few comments on this point, Technic actually has a long history and has been around for as long as the minifig. However, the trend towards removing the studs from everything is relatively recent and started around 1999 or 2000, and by 2002 most sets had almost no studs at all.

I'm a big Technic fan, but I partly agree with Norro on this issue. I use a good mix of both types of construction in my MOCs, but I don't like how TLG has made Technic sets completely studless and almost seems to have made a deliberate effort to remove the studs in many cases. The actual models have continued to be great, but the construction often feels less intuitive and less like Lego than it used to.

Yeah, I know what you mean about that - in fact, I seem to remember reviews of really old 70's sets that had really long technic axles in them. Personally though, the fact that Technic sets are now almost completely studless doesn't bother me much, as I don't really buy any sets from that theme. However, I can see why it would bother some people, and I think a better approach would be the one they used in the Motorized Bulldozer from 2007:

There - that is the ideal approach. This way of designing sets combines the old technic beams with the new, making a design that is neither blocky nor studless. If TLC made all their Technic sets this way, I bet a lot of people would be happier.

[CP5670]

Yes, that bulldozer was the only model in the last several years to have a substantial amount of studded construction, and it's one reason why I like that set so much. Although it looks a lot more studded than it really is; the studs are only used on exterior components, while the chassis and internal sections are entirely studless.

Edited February 23, 2009 by CP5670

[Matteo Kenobi]

Well first in my personal opinion, and in no particular order:

Best -

Star Wars

Castle

Pirates

Worst -

Exo-Force

Agents (Please, don't shoot me, don't shoot!)

Bionicle

However when it comes to the sets inside these themes, things are mixed up a bit, and again no particular order

Best-

City

Star Wars

Pirates

Worst-

Bionicle

Mars Mission

Power Miners (Maybe they will grow on me, but it is just to much of a technic lego mix for me to appreciate it)

[tiggerkiddo]

Best Themes:

Ice Planet

Forestmen

Islanders (Underrated theme IMO. Lego could have expanded on this more)

Worst Themes:

Town Jr. (Pretty much drove me into the dark ages)

Bionicle

Knights Kingdom 2

[Algernon]

Best Themes:

Ice Planet

Forestmen

Islanders (Underrated theme IMO. Lego could have expanded on this more

Ohh, forestmen! That theme was all kinds of awesome. Besides, who can forget the ultra-rare forestbabe?

[Legoman]

I'll break the rules a bit, and do as many as i like

Best:

Star Wars : pure awsomeness. I love it, Lego and Star Wars were made for each other.

City: Great sets's, Great theme, it's dissapointing i don't have any left over money for these awsome sets

Castle: most era's. Really cool sets, it's dissapointing i don't have any left over money for these awsome sets

Indy: Great sets's, Great theme, it's dissapointing i don't have any left over money for these awsome sets

World Icons: Amazing. True peices of art.

Pirates: Drool. Such a great theme, , it's dissapointing i don't have any left over money for these awsome sets

Worst:

Bionicle: You call that stuff LEGO?

Znap: Huh? What the heck was this stuff?

Fabuland: Why would Grown-up's want to play baby lego?

Time Crusier's: Might as well be called 'extra part's'

And please don't anyone flame me, this is just IMO

[Etzel]

Did TLC actually say that technic was semi-independent? I'm serious - could you give me a quote on this? And besides, even if they believe that, it doesn't mean that it's true.

Well, in most of my LEGO catalogues there is a clear diversion between the 3 different areas of LEGO. Duplo, System and Technic. Therefore I have always treated Technic the same way as Duplo, yes it's lego, yes you can use the pieces, but why bother when there is so many good parts in System? I can admit that Technic is better than Duplo when it comes to the pieces but I still think it's a big difference between System and Technic (and IMHO Bionicle is a Technic sub-theme).

[General Armendariz]

Best:

1. Pirates! the original to be specific

2. castle its just so fun to build stuff

3. town! the best seller

than starwars but this is top 3

Worst:

1. exo-force Yuck!

2. knights kingdom2 it was horrible

3. sponge bob yeah I didnt like it either

Well thats what I think if you like it or not

[pr0visorak]

Best:

Classic Castle

Classic Space

Star Wars

Worst:

Mars Mission/Life On Mars

Power Miners

Space Police 2009

It's just that simple folks!

Agreed! Star wars Rules! And space police stinks

[Algernon]

In fact, ALL of those themes that aren't past their preliminary phase suck! They look so unfinished!

[Norro]

Well, in most of my LEGO catalogues there is a clear diversion between the 3 different areas of LEGO. Duplo, System and Technic. Therefore I have always treated Technic the same way as Duplo, yes it's lego, yes you can use the pieces, but why bother when there is so many good parts in System? I can admit that Technic is better than Duplo when it comes to the pieces but I still think it's a big difference between System and Technic (and IMHO Bionicle is a Technic sub-theme).

Exactly, the Lego literature, especially the old brochures were clearly divided. Technique even had its own brochures for a period. As well as a separate Lego Technique Club...

God Bless,

Nathan

Did TLC actually say that technic was semi-independent? I'm serious - could you give me a quote on this? And besides, even if they believe that, it doesn't mean that it's true.

The fact that TLC has been doing this in some of their brands shows that TLC themselves advocates it, and I think people need to follow their lead.

Now I'm just being malicious... but playfully

Nathan

[CP5670]

Exactly, the Lego literature, especially the old brochures were clearly divided. Technique even had its own brochures for a period. As well as a separate Lego Technique Club...

Ironically, the last time the catalogs were separated like this was the late 90s, and Technic was all stud-based back then. There has been no such distinction made after 2000 or so though.

[Norro]

Ironically, the last time the catalogs were separated like this was the late 90s, and Technic was all stud-based back then. There has been no such distinction made after 2000 or so though.

No, the paper saving fast track was all ready beginning to get rid of my precious Lego literature...

God Bless,

Nathan

[Lt. Col. Thok]

Best:

-Pirates

-Castle

-City

Worst:

-Bionicle (even though I used to be mad for it )

-Alpha Team Deep Sea (one, two, three, altogether now...WTF!?!?!?!? What a horrible sequel!)

-Star Wars CW (just for the minifigs...Eyes are supposed to be around the nose, not in your hairline!)

[Inigo Montoya]

Based purely on execution of the theme, and taking my personal bias out of it, I'd have to go with (in no particular order):

(1) star wars.

This line continues to get stronger and better as time goes on...the early versions of ships left much to be desired, but how can one look at, say, the $50 x-wing fighter and not be impressed? Or the way it scales up to the massive $500 Falcon? The sets range in scale and size so they have something for everyone. There's not many themes that have this range, and they execute every set very, very well.

(2) technics

For a pure 'playability' standpoint, and if MOCing is your thing, how can you not love technics? Legos that actually 'do' something is, in my eyes, among the most impressive. Throw in the larger scale and workings of a real model, technics really delivers.

(3) city

Again, for the playability factor. Unbelievable number of sets that allow you to build a real, functioning town. Truly limitless rebuild value, tons of vehicles, lots of figs. I don't personally collect city but if I had the room for it, I'd be all over building a nice long street with tons of buildings and vehicles on display.

Now, for the bad...and for my choices I look at execution (or lack thereof), presentation, and replay value:

(1) spongebob

Just seems like they tossed the lego brand and the spongebob brands in the blender, and didn't put a lot of thought into the results. I think it's tough to get this mix right: the typical viewer of this show is probably too young to really appreciate legos and building their own sets...just kind of 'bleh' to me.

(2) power miners

I just don't see the appeal of this set. Not that everything has to have a commercial tie in (mars mission is infinitely more appealing to me), but this just seems...I dunno. I've seen the sets and I just can't get enthused over mining.

(3) agents

I put this one in here with hesitation but end up doing it because it could be so much more. The sets themselves are fine, but where are the baseplates to frame the action? The space sets of the early 80s had plenty of baseplates that let you set the scene, let you anchor your buildings to. With this everything is just...floating. For the vehicles of course that's great, but it would be a boon to the sets if they had some plates to attach buildings to, or you could build a secret lair for.

As far as the original poster goes, I'm not sure if berating people for giving their input on their favorites is the way to go? If people want to bash on star wars, for example, because it seems tired and dated to them, how is that any less a valid reason than the ones I've given or anyone else has?

[Zarkan]

Now I'm just being malicious... but playfully

Nathan

Wha? I'm not completely sure what you meant by that, but if I'm right, then that was really uncalled for. Taking two totally separate comments by me and using them out of context instead of actually adressing the large post I made yesterday seems to be your way of demeaning my inteligence. But again, I'm not sure on this, and I sincerely hope I'm wrong.

[Peppermint_M]

You know, no one is really explaining themselves. There are a few exceptions. I suppose people do check their brains at the door when entering the internet.

[The Rancor]

Fabuland: Why would Grown-up's want to play baby lego?

I completely agree! IMO For one reason I barely know the theme but it does remind me of Duplo.

My other hated themes would have to be Bionicle (although I have an extensive weapon collection over the ages) because the parts are so specialised and barely get used in other sets. Another theme that I am not very interested in is Space Police (mainly because I can't get the latest wave in the freakin' UK, but also because I never was able to get/ bought the old ones).

I

Star Wars (From ALL eras, providing I have the money. I just don't often buy Starships)

Castle (since 2007) (because it is so much better in my opinion than some of the older sets (not Forestmen))

Power Miners (because all the sets have interesting features/mechanisms that bring the sets alive + I LIKE the colours)

[Norro]

Wha? I'm not completely sure what you meant by that, but if I'm right, then that was really uncalled for. Taking two totally separate comments by me and using them out of context instead of actually adressing the large post I made yesterday seems to be your way of demeaning my inteligence. But again, I'm not sure on this, and I sincerely hope I'm wrong.

Alas the internet does not convey intention. I will reply to your long post when I have time. In the mean while, I just found it humorous that the value you put on Lego's stances varies by topic. Mine does as well, as I pointed out earlier...

I'm sorry you seem to treat this exchange as a personal attack on yourself and your opinions. I was taught that debate was essentially the art of either logically decimating your opponent or citing any point where he contradicts himself. Hence I do not often engage these skills in the Lego world.

I still feel (perhaps equally as falsely as your belief that I was "demeaning" your intelligence) that whenever I put forward an opinion you ask that it be substantiated and then proceed to attack my reasoning (highly subjectively). When I respond with a more classical or formal style of argument, you feel as if your views are being rode roughshod over. It is *almost* as if it is only valid reasoning when it aligns with the self evident truth that bionicle is Lego... Hence I think I should stop responding before I caused offense, which is not my intention...

God Bless,

Nathan

[Zarkan]

Alas the internet does not convey intention. I will reply to your long post when I have time. In the mean while, I just found it humorous that the value you put on Lego's stances varies by topic. Mine does as well, as I pointed out earlier...

I'm sorry you seem to treat this exchange as a personal attack on yourself and your opinions. I was taught that debate was essentially the art of either logically decimating your opponent or citing any point where he contradicts himself. Hence I do not often engage these skills in the Lego world.

I still feel (perhaps equally as falsely as your belief that I was "demeaning" your intelligence) that whenever I put forward an opinion you ask that it be substantiated and then proceed to attack my reasoning (highly subjectively). When I respond with a more classical or formal style of argument, you feel as if your views are being rode roughshod over. It is *almost* as if it is only valid reasoning when it aligns with the self evident truth that bionicle is Lego... Hence I think I should stop responding before I caused offense, which is not my intention...

God Bless,

Nathan

Well, let me say right out that this is not what I have intended to come across as, and I'm sorry if I seemed that way. Honestly though, I don't see where you're coming from. In all of my posting, I have never stated that somebody is wrong if they argue that Bionicle is not lego. The only time I've said anything like that was when I stated that "technically," Bionicle is a lego sub brand, and technical issues rarely affect opinions based on taste. In many other cases, I've agreed that things are purely a matter of disagreement and opinions, not fact verses fiction.

The reason I felt that you were demeaning my inteligence was that that "contradiction" you pointed out seemed to smack of "look, here's a stupid error you made - try to see if you know what I'm talking about." Now, you said that wasn't the case, so that doesn't apply, but how is someone really supposed to tell what you mean when that statment was so vague and cryptic? I honestly couldn't tell what point you were trying to make by that. I've always thought that posting on forums without always making it clear what you mean is a slippery slope, as people can very often take you the wrong way. This applies to everyone, and that is why I think sarcasm is a bad thing to be doing in this medium. (FYI: I've struggled with detecting sarcasm for a long time - and it is especially evident in some of my early posts on this forum when I was younger. Nowdays, I'm a bit better, but that's mostly because I'm more quick to ask whether someone is being sarcastic than replying to it at face value. This is because of a disorder that I have, but I won't get into that here.)

Look, I appreciate opinions just as much as anyone else here, but I really feel that some people are cleary misreading my intentions. I'm actually really not upset at you at all about the Bionicle issue, Norro - you've explained your opinions much better than many of the other posters here, to a level that your posts are probably some of the best ones in this entire discussion. I'm more upset about the huge urge some of the other members have to immediately call Bionicle the worst theme without even giving reasons or thinking it through. I'm honestly shocked that Bionicle has the most votes for worst theme in this topic, and that many people have not even listed Galidor, which I think we can all agree is far worse. Heck, is there even a single person here that likes Galidor? Not really, and that should make it pretty evident which theme is the worst, at least in technical thinking. It's like how some movies are viewed worse than others depending on how many people disliked them. The movies considered the worst ever basically have no fans in any age level or demographic, which is how they earn the title. I think that kind of reasoning can apply to the Galidor issue as well.

Anyway, sorry again if I came off the way you thought I did, Norro. I never meant to try to demean your opinions, nor was I trying to argue with you so I could "somehow prove you wrong." Honestly, the only reason I'm continuing in this discussion at all is that I enjoy a good debate, especially when it relates to my favorite hobby.