Exclusive Train 10194 Emerald Night (Exclusive 2009)

[Freddie]

Ah! So that's how it works. I figured the receiver used the constant supply only for itself and whatever else needed constant supply after it, while it would tap into C1 and C2 pins to supply power for the motors, which it would regulate. Apparently not so.

So the correction would be that the receiver "overrules" the speed dial on the battery box. Right?

[Brickthus]

Ah! So that's how it works. I figured the receiver used the constant supply only for itself and whatever else needed constant supply after it, while it would tap into C1 and C2 pins to supply power for the motors, which it would regulate. Apparently not so.

So the correction would be that the receiver "overrules" the speed dial on the battery box. Right?

Not just that, it completely ignores the C1 and C2 inputs.

There are three main types of Power Functions device - inputs, processors and outputs. There are also edcational WeDo products and custom devices of my own invention.

Inputs are battery boxes.

Processors are currently just the IR receiver.

Outputs are motors and lights.

WeDo products have different requirements that do not necessarily conform to standard protocol.

Custom devices may be non-standard processors or anything else we can create.

Inputs provide a constant full supply voltage on the +9V and 0V pins and a switched or variable output on C1 and C2.

Processors take in a supply from +9V and 0V and generate a C1 and C2 output from it, using fresh power from +9V and 0V to generate the C1-C2 output in every processor. All official processors to date have passed the +9V and 0V supply straight through to the same pins on the output ports and have generally ignored any input on C1 and C2. The passing on of +9V and 0V has allowed the same supply to be fed in via the output port: pic

Outputs take a signal on the C1 and C2 pins and produce another type of energy from it. Some outputs may also connect to the +9V or 0V pin - the light brick has a 0V connection.

Custom devices could do anything and do not necessarily conform to standard PF protocol. My devices to date range from a modified lead, which connects a variable C1-C2 input to +9V and 0V output, to circuits that produce other outputs on +9V and 0V as well as C1 and C2. Using these it is possible to repeat IR commands inside a tunnel, set and latch train lights in the direction of travel, flash lights alternately or cascade IR receivers and hence run more than 4 (or 8) trains on a layout. For devices to be cascaded, it is best to have only one transistor between +9V input and +9V output and to compile the logic for that one transistor before controlling it, rather than putting several components in series, which would reduce the available maximum output supply voltage.

WeDo devices include sensors, which receive +5V on the +9V and 0V pins and return signals on the C1 and C2 pins, and a USB interface, whose ports may be inputs when driving a motor or outputs when reading from a sensor. The two sensors released so far are a tilt sensor and a motion sensor.

There is a "third way" with PF trains, for those who have enough 9V components already:

Keep the 9V rails and train controller.

Convert 9V train motors to PF operation.

Use constant 9V track power and control each loco with an IR receiver.

For a 9V train motor to be converted to PF operation, the wheel contacts would be separated from the motor and have their track power input rectified and smoothed within the motor and sent into the loco body on the +9V and 0V pins of a PF lead. The motor control signal, probably from an IR receiver, would be returned on the C1 and C2 pins, making the converted motor a non-standard processor. With the feed-through of +9V and 0V on the IR receiver, the receiver would accept the track power from the motor on its output port. A large capacitance would be needed across the +9V and 0V pins in order to hold enough power to power the motor(s) over power interruptions, otherwise the IR receiver would turn off, stopping the train. This could be a discrete device inside the loco body.

For the Emerald Night, this would require a PF-converted 9V train motor under the coach, to pick up track power, and a PF extension wire or two to connect it to the same port of the IR receiver as the cab motor uses. The capacitor or battery would be in the tender - either doing something clever with the PF LiPo battery (not easy) or doing something different, like a large 10V or 16V-rated capacitor with some current limiting, to allow infinite shallow charge-discharge cycles without wasting too much energy.

Bear in mind that 9V train support is now community-based with limited support from TLG, so it's up to us to keep it going for as long as we want it.

For all the snags that have been seen with PF, there have been two significant victories won by AFOLs:

1. The PF extension wire has a 9V plug on the bottom of one end, for backward compatibility.

2. The PF light brick has lights that fit in Technic beam holes and in the back of 1x1 headlight bricks for small cars (compare with 9V and previous light bricks).

This shows that the AFOL input has been a very positive thing and that TLG has listened to our input on PF. What would we have done without these provisions?

I started writing a 1-line answer and out came an essay!

Mark

[Mirandir]

I recieved some info about that new batterybox:

It is an 1100 mAh(milliamperehours) battery. Which sounds a little low, doesn't it? Anyhow 10194 Emerald Night is said to run for 3-4 hours per charge. When the battery is completly empty a recharge will take about 1.5 hours.

They couldn't specify how many recharges it could take other than it should work for a couple of years. I was told that it comes with a two year warranty.

The battery also has a builtin powersave feature that steps in and turns it off if it's "unused" for two hours.

EDIT: Maybe I should mention that these specs were provided by the LEGO customer services.

Edited April 3, 2009 by Mirandir

[brickzone]

Apparently 1100 mAH is a lot for a battery like that, e.g. compared to a mobile phone battery. Expert opinion I have here is that €50 is probably the best you could sell the Lego battery for... and €60 is a bit on the high side but not that extreme.

Edited April 3, 2009 by brickzone

[Mirandir]

Apparently 1100 mAH is a lot for a battery like that, e.g. compared to a mobile phone battery.

I guess I'm just used to NiMH batteries that hardly comes with a mAh that low. But I guess the main advantage of this battery is it's lifetime so in the end it's worth it even though you get NiMH batteries with more than double mAh for half the price (charger excluded).

[brickzone]

Mirandir:

That's true - but 6xAAs enclosure does take up a lot of space. Also, some of the cheaper NiMH are not as good as they make out - poor quality. It still costs a lot to get 6 decent quality high mAH NiMH batteries. In fact I think any cheap ones I have were ones I got from Lidl/Aldi specials.

You still have the choice anyway - because there is the far cheaper power functions battery box for AA batteries.

[MetroiD]

There is SO MUCH valuable information in this thread that does not necessarily relate exclusively to 10194 Emerald Night... I wonder if an admin could please separate the PF-related posts in another thread, since that would make it much more readily accessible for future reference, instead of having to dig through 30-odd pages of random info. Thanks!

[brickzone]

On S@H for Ireland, and for UK (probably other countries too), Emerald Night is now listed as "Preorder Now, will ship by 29th May"!!!

Argh!

[Holodoc]

On S@H for Ireland, and for UK (probably other countries too), Emerald Night is now listed as "Preorder Now, will ship by 29th May"!!!

Argh!

Same for Germany.

[emilec]

On S@H for Ireland, and for UK (probably other countries too), Emerald Night is now listed as "Preorder Now, will ship by 29th May"!!!

Argh!

Intersting, i was in my local store a week ago and was told they had the sets in the store. Sadly, i wasn't allowed to buy it until the 15th April. I will be popping back later this week to see if anything has chnaged and if i can get hold of a copy.

[brickfreak99]

On S@H for Ireland, and for UK (probably other countries too), Emerald Night is now listed as "Preorder Now, will ship by 29th May"!!!

Argh!

That is so disappointing. The same thing happened in Australia =(

[Gouns]

In France too ...

I go to Cologne / Köln Lego Store tomorrow . I hope the 10194 will be aviable to sell because i have 300 km to come on the store from my home, in France

[Teddy]

Hmm,

I'm just reading all the pros and cons posted here for the last few days.

pros:

-more complex rail layouts

-remote control

-various processors can be integrated tapping in the same power supply

-flexible system to motorize different size trains

-various motor types

-9V battery powered "old-school" motor

cons:

-bulky motor (in emirald night)

-bulky battery box

-easy "hackable" control system (someone with a remote can highjack your train)

-difficult back-wards compatibility into older train sets.

-recharging an ever increasing stack of batteries.

In my honoust opinion:

-They should have stuk with metal rail for the power supply and feed the PF from there.

60 Euro on a battery or 60 Euro on metal track.. I'm not seeing the advantage of batteries yet.

I'm really wondering if there is a cheap way to customize the plastic tracks to metal tracks.

And provide metal surface wheels to direct the track power to the PF system.

Maybe a small business opportunity there?

-The remote control could have been slightly more advanced for similar cost to prevent highjacking.

Mark Bellis his idea is a good option. But to be honoust the additional cost for lego to provide some

more advaced control electronics is close to zero. E.G a full bluetooth receiver is just between 1 to 2 Dollars

for bulk purchases. And such a receiver is many orders of magnitude more complex

than the current infrared system.

So why they didn't inlude a more advanced controle system is and will remain a question mark for me.

Kind regards,

Teddy

Edited April 6, 2009 by Teddy

[Holodoc]

In France too ...

I go to Cologne / Köln Lego Store tomorrow . I hope the 10194 will be aviable to sell because i have 300 km to come on the store from my home, in France

I phoned the store in Oberhausen today and they told me, the set WILL NOT BE AVAILABLE BEFORE April, 15th!

They already have them on the shelves, but are not allowed to sell them before that date!

[brick around the clock]

Hi,

I am interested in the 10194 collection, but am not shure wether it is the best deal.

The original 10194 box has 1085 pieces and the collection box has 1109. With 6 pieces for the accessories pack it leaves only 18 pieces for the flex-track.

With the 10194 collection being 90€ and the accessories pack 113€, the 18 flex-track pieces will cost me 12€, while I can get 64 flex-track pieces for 30€ in the 8867 box.

Did I make any miscalculations?

Maarten

[simonwillems]

Hi,

I am interested in the 10194 collection, but am not shure wether it is the best deal.

The original 10194 box has 1085 pieces and the collection box has 1109. With 6 pieces for the accessories pack it leaves only 18 pieces for the flex-track.

With the 10194 collection being 90€ and the accessories pack 113€, the 18 flex-track pieces will cost me 12€, while I can get 64 flex-track pieces for 30€ in the 8867 box.

Did I make any miscalculations?

Maarten

Hi Maarten and welcome to Eurobricks,

I wouldn't rely too much on the total mentioned piece count at these kind of collection-boxes, Shop at Home is known for sometimes getting them wrong.

When you look at the description of the collection-pack it says that the collection consisits out of a number of sets, that will also be the way it is going to be shipped. So you just have a box arriving at your house with all the separate boxes inside them, including the tracks-set consosting of 64 pieces.

Hope this helps

[Captain Zuloo]

It seems it is back to the 15th of April in Australia. Let's hope it stays that way.

[Svelte]

It seems it is back to the 15th of April in Australia. Let's hope it stays that way.

Does anyone know why K10194 Emerald Night Collection and most of the new PF stuff isn't available to order in Australia/NZ? Is there some legal/ technical issue blocking sale here? It seems odd that the 10V transformer is for sale but nothing else, not even the track!

Apologies if this has been answered upthread.

[Holodoc]

It seems it is back to the 15th of April in Australia. Let's hope it stays that way.

Same for Germany.

They are really driving me mad with this policy!

[Lasse D]

I was walking around this Saturday and suddenly I saw this group of people discussing the train on display.

I found my camera and captured some of the details and functions:

It was without PF-components, but you can hear a man in the background talking about how they fit in.

[Gouns]

I'm back from cologne Lego Store and the 10194 was not aviable , so the eurobricks member who has buy it in Munich is probably wrong because the train is ONLY aviaible in Shop at home for the moment .

[Cwetqo]

It could be that they got 10194-s and by mistake put them on shelfs (maybe just in this shop), but removed them after clarifying this with TLC. I asked about this LEGO people at event in St. Polten (it was just after the guy told us that it's available) and all I got was reply that "no way that the set is in stores because it will be available after april 15-th".

[mrchris]

seems strange that they let it miss the easter weekend which would of been good sales for it.

[Tinn-man]

It looks like the Emerald Night is back at May 15th in the US.

[Brickthus]

I saw an Emerald Night at an event recently.

When I moved it along the track it rocked, such that the front bogie moved about relative to the body of the loco. I wondered whether the rocking was caused by either a slight squashing of the driving wheels (shape slightly ovoid rather than perfectly circular) or variation in the thickness of the red belts fitted around them.

BBB wheels have not suffered from this effect.

Either way, I wonder about its stability at high cornering speeds. I would be inclined to put train motors under the coach rather than powering the driving wheels.

The design of a loco in a set has certain compromises that I would not make in my own MoCs. The Emerald Night has its driving wheels fixed rigidly to the loco body. Many AFOL MoCs use more articulation to improve stability.

Mark