Exclusive Train 10194 Emerald Night (Exclusive 2009)

[Cavannus]

On the carriage, I've added a 9V motor, so the carriage, in effect driving the train, wierd, but it works and does not look far out of place...

It looks less weird than this big motor in the engine cab, or even in the tender. Actually it doesn't look weird at all: I think your conversion is the best. Great job!

[Brickthus]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/comm...n_Doncaster.JPG

Looks familiar, doesn´t it?

From the Flying Scotsman picture it looks like Emerald Night should have been given larger wheels.

I wondered whether the name "Emerald Night" was derived from the green colour (though green is nearer to an emerald than dark green) and the name of "Evening Star", the last main line steam engine to be built in Britain and the only Class 9F to be painted green. Evening Star model. I hope if there is a connection to Evening Star then there is no omen of Emerald Night being the last steam engine from TLG!!! 10194 is certainly a step in the right direction as far as train kits are concerned.

I know a 9F is 2-10-0 rather than 4-6-2 and most 9Fs were for heavy goods, but 92220 Evening Star was a passenger express engine (90mph and some people in the industry were horrified by the thought of running that design so fast because the middle wheels on the real engine were flangeless). The smaller wheels in 10194 fit a 9F profile better - 5'3" rather than Flying Scotsman's 6'8". I'm not sure TLG would have dared try a 2-10-0 for a kit because the chassis is more advanced to accommodate overhanging wheels, as my BBB 0-10-0 chassis demonstrates, as well as a further pair of wheels at one end, whose pivot placement is hampered by the wheel overhang.

My solution to the Larger Train Wheel problem:

I used to use 40-tooth cogs for driving wheels, with the whole set suspended off the rails. Those wheels were 42mm, a scale size of 5'3", and fitted well on my 9F.

I decided that, given the advances between the 9F's debut in 2000 and the present day, I would seek an alternative solution for large loco wheels. Ben Fleskes advised me that larger wheel running on the rails had issues with derailments caused by the flanges, such that it was not his intention to make larger wheels. This prompted me to seek my own solution, so I came up with this:

It's a 32020 Model Team wheel, turned to make it 1M thick to the face, a little more to the rim. This folder contains pictures of the turning process, for those of you not too squeamish to see LEGO parts being modded .

I intend to re-wheel my 9F as well as 5972 Olton Hall, the Hogwarts Express engine. The next engine to receive the wheels should be Edward the Blue Engine which, as you see, is at the chassis stage.

What do you think about larger LEGO train wheels?

Should 10194 have larger wheels?

Are the 32020 wheels an improvement on the 40-tooth cogs?

Mark

[DaCheese]

Darker green, hence BR years. Anyway, I think the wheels are relatively small because that's all you can really use for a six-coupled engine with such a tight standard radius of curve. Even if the centre "axle" didn't have flangeless wheels, there'd be no room for the flanges the way 10194 goes together. That'll be where I see Japanese influence then; over there standard gauge is 3 foot 6 inches, so you can imagine a narrow gauge express locomotive having small driving wheels and a huge boiler. The narrow gauge speed record was at one time held by a Japanese C62 4-6-4 which did 129 km/h. That's about 80 mph, and given the performance of the 9Fs and the Norfolk and Western J Class 4-8-4s across the pond it doesn't seem unreasonable for a loco with small driving wheels to have a fair turn of speed.

I'd say having wheels touching the track is always an improvement on having them raised off the track! I'd be interested to hear how a loco fitted with the turned wheels runs, even if I'm unlikely to folow suit (your locos are fantastic, but I'll be happy to put together locos that look alright even if they aren't to scale). Bigger wheels really could do with wider radius curves, and flexible track isn't the solution. Happily, the current wheels look about right for a Hunslet austerity/J94, if I can work out how to fit the PF parts in...

[Brickthus]

Darker green, hence BR years. Anyway, I think the wheels are relatively small because that's all you can really use for a six-coupled engine with such a tight standard radius of curve. Even if the centre "axle" didn't have flangeless wheels, there'd be no room for the flanges the way 10194 goes together. That'll be where I see Japanese influence then; over there standard gauge is 3 foot 6 inches, so you can imagine a narrow gauge express locomotive having small driving wheels and a huge boiler. The narrow gauge speed record was at one time held by a Japanese C62 4-6-4 which did 129 km/h. That's about 80 mph, and given the performance of the 9Fs and the Norfolk and Western J Class 4-8-4s across the pond it doesn't seem unreasonable for a loco with small driving wheels to have a fair turn of speed.

I'd say having wheels touching the track is always an improvement on having them raised off the track! I'd be interested to hear how a loco fitted with the turned wheels runs, even if I'm unlikely to folow suit (your locos are fantastic, but I'll be happy to put together locos that look alright even if they aren't to scale). Bigger wheels really could do with wider radius curves, and flexible track isn't the solution. Happily, the current wheels look about right for a Hunslet austerity/J94, if I can work out how to fit the PF parts in...

I use BBB wheels as 3'9" wheels, but for anything from 3'6" to 4'6" in 8mm:1ft scale. Cogs, and now 32020 wheels, pick up from 5'0" to over 6'0".

That makes BBB wheels good for a J94. I use them on my Class 14 diesel and have thought about doing an '08' with them (simpler chassis if I use flangeless wheels in the middle).

The curves are 40ft radius to 8mm scale. I put straights between them in the yard (72ft radius) and more on the main line (104ft radius). I had hoped flexi-tracks could make good wider radius curves, but for me to use them on an exhibition layout it depends on removing the check rails and ballasting the track.

A 4-6-4 or 4-8-4 is a particularly stable loco configuration. Not surprised they went fast. Not many of those types appeared in the UK. Remembrance class was a 4-6-4 in 1919 but I think there were only 5 of them.

I will test whether my 32020 modded wheels will run OK on standard track. I expect the 'flanges' will be too thick to work on points or flexi-track, even if they fit between the tracks with the 4-wide chassis.

Mark

[Siegfried]

Like Holodoc I couldn't wait for the real parts so I tested it out with what I have.

That's all of my rolling stock (and two non-motor engines) and it happily moved them all! The batteries were just 2 year old NiMH so the real battery should be even better. Power is not a problem with that motor....

The jamming of the rods also goes to show that, for any steam engine, a rearward extension of the line of slide of the main piston rods should pass through a point at the rotational centre of the crank that attaches the drive rod to the connecting rod.

I'll have to read that several times! Mine is sticking sometimes so I think I've got some alignment errors... (For the above test the rod was removed.)

EDIT: Armed with new knowledge I gave it another go and it now works great. Now it'll even do the same load backwards!

[Holodoc]

Great photo, Sinner!

(I´m still sorting the 10 pounds Lego I got last week... )

[Rob PBS]

Got mine yesterday, and wow! What a set. Took me about 5 hours to build the thing off and on last night. Looks great when finished.

More carriages please.

[Brickimad]

Got mine yesterday, and wow! What a set. Took me about 5 hours to build the thing off and on last night. Looks great when finished.

More carriages please.

Might as well post pictures of my rolling stock. This is the 9V collection, have twice as many 12V, so this table is too small.

Included are: 2 Metroliners + 1 carriage + 1 engine, Emerald Night, Crocodile train, Steam train x2 with each caboose and coal tender. Rc ICe with extra carriage; diesel engine, tram engine; couple of hoppers, flatbed. I've got more upstairs in the 9v range, but these are carriages pulled by 12V system. All the engines have 9v motors in them, except the metroliners, where each engine on end have motors and lights. lights as well on the green engine, ICE and lights in cab of one of the Metroliners.

[Holodoc]

Might as well post pictures of my rolling stock.

Impressive collection, but I don´t know why you posted this here?

This topic is about the Emerald Night...

[Brickimad]

Impressive collection, but I don´t know why you posted this here?

This topic is about the Emerald Night...

Oops! Was going to post on my first post, then my browser crashed!

I did select "carry on from last time", but it must have moved to what I was looking before the last posting!

Duh!

Computers, eh!

suppose the Emerald Night is in the pic!

Edited May 2, 2009 by Brickimad

[The Cobra]

Oddity on S@H:

For Germany, the EN collection with tracks and PF costs 215,99 Euros.

For Italy, it costed 256,92 Euros, but it's now on sale for 215,99 too.

For (Metropolitan) France, it was 277,92, now it's 235,99.

[SeaKing61]

Have I finally lost my mind or has the Emerald Night Collection disappeared from S@H? I can't find it anywhere on the UK one. All the constituent parts are available, but not the discounted collection. I've looked everywhere i can and searched but I can't find it. Does anyone know anything about this?

Thanks,

Laurie

[dhaas06]

I agree with SeaKing61: what happened to the Emerald Night collection? I actually stumbled upon the fact when looking for the new Power Functions speed controller, which has vanished from S@H in all countries. Then I looked to see if it was still offered in the collection at least, and the collection is gone too. Has there been a problem with this variable speed controller, leading to it and the collection getting pulled from S@H?

[Holodoc]

I ordered the PF collection and received a mail some days ago, that the speed controller is out of stock (problems?) till august.

They are going to ship the old IR-controller instead to have the train motorized at least. It is an on/off control though, you cannot in- or decrease the speed of the train with it.

I guess this is the reason for the vanished set: They don´t want to have more orders on a set they can´t ship.

[dhaas06]

I ordered the PF collection and received a mail some days ago, that the speed controller is out of stock (problems?) till august.

They are going to ship the old IR-controller instead to have the train motorized at least. It is an on/off control though, you cannot in- or decrease the speed of the train with it.

I guess this is the reason for the vanished set: They don´t want to have more orders on a set they can´t ship.

Thanks for the info, Holodoc. I guess that's the problem with these powered elements: there are multiple sources and a relatively complicated production (as opposed to regular Lego pieces), so the supply stream can get clogged up pretty bad.

It's nice that Lego is at least sending the basic controller as a temporary replacement, but do you know if they will send the speed one too once it's back in stock? It certainly wouldn't be fair to receive the old one but not end up getting the one you paid for .

[Holodoc]

It's nice that Lego is at least sending the basic controller as a temporary replacement, but do you know if they will send the speed one too once it's back in stock? It certainly wouldn't be fair to receive the old one but not end up getting the one you paid for .

Yep, you´ll get the older controller for free and the new one whenever it is available. You won´t have to return the controller.

[DaCheese]

I can't help but think that Lego have handled this whole Power Functions Trains introduction pretty badly. It's a month or so since 10194 and its PF gubbins were released and as far as I can see the stocks of these components that Lego had ready were woefully inadequate. I'm waiting until July for my transformer so I can actually enjoy playing with the damn thing, Holodoc's got to wait until August for a variable speed controller, presumably these are not unusual cases. It's easy to complain as a customer of course, but surely this is unacceptable?

[CP5670]

If you're only waiting on the transformer, I doubt you actually need the official Lego one (which is overpriced anyway). Anything with a 10V output and the same size connector will work.

[metalandi]

There are even transformers on which you can attach various connectors, i have such a thing at home. Youc an get it pretty cheap at every good multimedia store.

[frogstudio]

There are even transformers on which you can attach various connectors, i have such a thing at home. Youc an get it pretty cheap at every good multimedia store.

Yes, but you must be careful. It's not only the voltage... you must also check the amperage...

[DaCheese]

Exactly. The Lego one is a somewhat odd rating, 10V DC at 600mA.

[JopieK]

Yes, but you must be careful. It's not only the voltage... you must also check the amperage...

Well amperage doesn't matter as long as the transformer can handle more than the units connected to it (otherwise it will overheat the transformer). So a 600mA+ transformer should be ok. Also the voltage doesn't matter that much as long as it is not more than 9V. LEGO uses a rectifier circuit with diodes that will usurp about 1Volt so from 10V~ it will make 9V=

B.t.w. LEGO also gave me a mail a month ago that they will send me the products save the controller but not received anything yet. I hate the way they made the XL PF motor option for the train b.t.w. it takes all of realism right again out of the train, but fortunately better options are appearing on the internet.

[Brickthus]

Well amperage doesn't matter as long as the transformer can handle more than the units connected to it (otherwise it will overheat the transformer). So a 600mA+ transformer should be ok. Also the voltage doesn't matter that much as long as it is not more than 9V. LEGO uses a rectifier circuit with diodes that will usurp about 1Volt so from 10V~ it will make 9V=

...

Except that if the transformer is significantly more capable than the current required, a short circuit in the unit would draw more current before it tripped the transformer current limit, potentially damaging the unit. That's why mains appliances have fuses for applicances, circuits and the whole house The effects of failure without fuses would be extreme in a house (probably fire) but the effect in a rechargeable battery could be an overheat condition sufficient to burn your hand, unless the protection circuit is effective even in failure conditions. In a commercial toy I doubt there is component redundancy, so if something in the battery circuit failed, protection might be lost by that single failure and use of an over-rated charging device might be unsafe.

This would be considered in the design. Of the two failures it takes to cause potential injury to the user (e.g. burnt hand), one is an excessive current from the charger and the other is a failure of the protection circuit in the battery. If the user uses an alternative, unprotected, charging device then that's one failure already, with a probability of 1. The chance of a burnt hand goes up from 1 in a million to more like 1 in 1000. It's your choice but if you disobey the warranty you would have no comeback if you got injured! If you have an electrical or electronics qualification then you would have more understanding of what would be safe or not.

A while ago there was a Dell laptop battery replacement programme because people were getting batteries overheating or exploding. Not nice if it's in your lap at the time!

I'm not really so paranoid about charging but that's the sort of logic I have to use as a professional safety engineer and the sort of thinking I must officially recommend. I would only use an alternative charging method myself if I were confident about its safety, including its current limit. For instance, I use a dual 30V 3A bench power supply to run 9V trains because the LEGO 9V controller has insufficient current for my trains (some of which have 4-5 motors). I run well within the motor ratings (300mA) by using about 200mA/motor except for short periods, thus prolonging the life of the motors. I also have multiple feeds to the track, which reduce both voltage drop and the electrical stress in the feed wires.

Mark

[DaCheese]

My transformer arrived a week or two ago so I've had my EN running a fair bit recently. The running quality's certainly not too bad. Just waiting for Lego to do a coach kit or two for not much money now, another dining car from a split set weighs in at about £35!

[JopieK]

My transformer arrived a week or two ago so I've had my EN running a fair bit recently. The running quality's certainly not too bad. Just waiting for Lego to do a coach kit or two for not much money now, another dining car from a split set weighs in at about £35!

Just got this email from TLG, so they still have problems with the PF parts.:

Dear ...,

I wanted to write to you personally regarding your recent order for the LEGO® Power Functions Train Accessories Pack K8882. Thank you for your interest in experiencing our newest innovation driven by LEGO Power Functions.

Since receiving your order, we have experienced challenges with two of the Power Functions elements. Firstly, we experienced unforeseen manufacturing delays with the Transformer 10VDC (8887). Secondly, we chose to take the difficult decision to delay shipment of the Power Functions IR Speed Remote Control (8879) because our initial deliveries did not perform up to LEGO quality standards. Ultimately, I would like you to receive the best LEGO product and service experiences available in the world as our LEGO Shop-at-Home guest. Regrettably, I must apologize personally and on behalf of my entire team as we delivered a severely substandard and disappointing experience on this new product launch. I want you to know that this delay in your order is very far below the service standard that you should expect from The LEGO Group. I hope you will forgive us this poor performance so far.

I would like to address the outstanding items which you are waiting for. The Power Functions Transformer 10VDC (8887) will be received into our fulfillment centre in Denmark this week and will be turned around for delivery to you immediately. We will send this to you by express delivery. The shipping date for the Power Functions IR Speed Remote Control (8879) is currently being finalized, and we will send this out to you by express delivery as soon as it is available.

I would like to apologize once again for the disappointment that this experience has caused and thank you for your patience and your continued trust in LEGO products. I hope you will give me and my colleagues at LEGO Shop-at-Home a chance to redeem ourselves for this poor performance in the future.

Sincerely,

Skip Kodak

Vice President - LEGO Global Direct-to-Consumer Business