Middle Ages vs Fantasy?

[Martijn]

I recently turned 35 and got my first Lego set in 20 years for my birthday. I never stopped loving Lego, but simply had way too many other things to do. Anyway, I got the Troll Warship, so color me surprised that Lego Castle now has trolls! I think I did notice the occasional ghost, skeleton or wizard over the years, but I hadn't realised that the theme had turned into a full-fledged Lego Fantasy theme.

I hope you'll allow me to get a bit nostalgic here. Looking through sites about all the different lego sets over the years, I got the impression that my childhood, the early '80s, was the Golden Age of Lego (although I imagine that's true for anyone's childhood, no matter what decade it was in). Classic (blue grey) spaceships seemed (to me) realistic at that time, unlike some of the black-grey stuff I got later, which had all sorts of big odd shapes that didn't mean anything to me (though it did get me to build Jayce and the Wheeled Warriors from Lego, but that's another story).

Similarly, our knights were the Black Falcons and Crusaders, and I once got the brilliant Crusader Castle for my birthday, and to this day, I'm convinced it's the biggest, best and most realistic Lego castle ever. Later castles (like space stations) got gaudier, more extreme colors, with flimsy towers and less defensible gates. And while I did consider the first castle with a ghost a nice touch, and I understand the demand for the occasional wizard or dragon, it seems that over the last 15 years, every castle had to have a ghost, skeleton and a wizard, and every box of more than $20 had to have its own dragon. Or big troll, now. Somehow it feels like it cheapens it. Maybe the castles should be as historic as possible, with wizards and dragons in seperate sets, so you can add them to taste?

On the other hand, I do like my new little orcs, and even the big troll. It doesn't feel like my old castle, but I'd love to use them in roleplaying games. They look better and are more versatile than my still-unpainted pewter miniatures.

But, well, the thing that actually led to me getting Lego for my birthday (from my wife) is that we're about to have our first kid in two months. And ofcourse in 7 years he/she needs to become a huge lego-fan. But somehow I'd prefer my kid to grow up with the kind of lego I had as a child: somewhat realistic, and suitable for being shaped by your own wild imagination, rather than coming already-infused with some standard average imagination that's harder to subvert. And there's also the educational aspect. I don't want to have to explain what orcs are in order to play with lego, I'd much rather use lego to teach a bit of real history, but orcs get in the way there. I'd rather not have her/him play with lego orcs until after reading Lord of the Rings. And I certainly don't want my child thinking that dragons and ghosts are as real as knights and castles.

The castles also look more like fantasy castles. The current big castle has a tower hanging in the air beside a very flimsy keep tower. My crusader castle had a big hulking gatehouse, and small but sturdy guard towers. And it had lots and lots of bricks and wall sections (although back then I even considered those wall sections cheating), so you could take it apart and design millions of completely different castles. I must have designed dozens of castles that were even better than the already brilliant crusader castle. But these modern sets, they seem to be intended for a single design.

I have absolutely no idea how to turn my Troll Warship into something that's not a Troll Warship. It's really pretty, don't get me wrong, but shouldn't I be able to make something else out of it? As far as I can tell, I can only make it shorter, rearrange the masts a bit, and change the sides of the ship a bit. I can't make it sleeker, higher, or add a second deck on top (without at least getting a ton of extra bricks). And the dragon is even worse. Maybe I can turn it into a wingless dragon, but that's it. I can't turn it into something that's not a dragon, and that goes completely against the spirit of Lego, in my opinion.

So despite my rekindled interest in Lego, I feel a bit sad and nostalgic. Of course with my luck, our kid will hate Lego. Oh well, more for me.

PS: I love the medieval market! It's very historic, and it has tons of bricks! It's everything Lego should be. It's going to be high on my wishlist for my next birthday.

[Dadster]

Great points! I too, kind of wish the Castle faction had an opposing force to battle, but I'll take resurrected skeletons and trolls anyday!

I'll have to forgive the Jayce + Wheeled Warriors enthusiasm.

[Sir Kohran]

You raise a very good point; fantasy has gained much more (too much?) prominence in recent years and the designs are arguably less creative than they once were. However I think we do have to understand that this is the way Castle is heading, and has been heading for a while now. The kids of today have been raised on fantasy movies and fantasy video games; I don't think the 'realistic' Castle sets of the 80s would appeal much to them. Those sets were models. These new sets are playsets (MMV excepted). For better or for worse, this is an age of quick gratification and the sets must fit into that.

[fenrir]

Well, though I never owned one of the 80ies sets, I think they are better.

What I realy would like to see from TLC now, is a realistic castle set.

I do believe a lot of AFOLS ( and children ) would realy like a realistic big lego castle. (detailed like Cafe corner, Medieval Market village etc.)

what do you think?

[m'kheyl]

I really dislike the whole fantasy thing, but on the other hand I think that the "fantasy era" knights minifigs are the most beautiful castle fig ever produced. I bought the Medieval Market Place and I intend to buy the King's Castle Siege & the upcoming Drawbridge Defense, but none of the pure fantasy sets. I will leave the skeletons & fancy things in the box, and I'll have my new knights fight against good old forestmen & black falcons

About the design, I thought the same about the castle, but after looking at the pieces inventory it's not that far from classic castles and I'm sure the 973 pieces would allow some pretty cool alternate models with a classic feel to them

[Martijn]

What I realy would like to see from TLC now, is a realistic castle set.

I do believe a lot of AFOLS ( and children ) would realy like a realistic big lego castle. (detailed like Cafe corner, Medieval Market village etc.)

Exactly! I love those detailed and realistic sets, and I don't mind paying good money for them. (I just need to convince my wife that that's exactly what our unborn child needs.)

If they'd make a realistic medieval line like that, I'd want to buy every set.

I don't really mind the fantasy element so much. I like fantasy, and I'd love to have had orcs and dragons as a kid. But at the same time, I think that's mostly interesting to slightly older children. For little children, just knights and princesses is good enough. Only when they want more than that would I add the fantasy stuff.

I've been looking at all the Castle sets I had as a kid, and I notice that the level of realism even started to drop before 1990. We had sensible stuff like a supply cart, a treasure cart, and our siege equipment were big but realistic looking storm towers, balistas and trebuchets. (And I distinctly remember that as a kid I wanted more peasants like the one on the supply cart, so it's not just weird dads who care about that.) Anyway, around 1990, you got things like the crossbow cart (if you're gonna mount crossbows on a cart, make it a real balista, not to tiny crossbows on the side), and the bizarre "double defender". It looks like it was more an attempt to push weapons and other weird bits rather than an attempt to make credible medieval sets.

Even if I do like orcs, I'd still prefer to see sensible, practical equipment in the boxes, rather than something that looks like a child designed it.

That's basically the feeling I get (especially with the Fright Knights, but also with other sub themes): I'd be really impressed by an 8 year old who designed something like that. I'm not so impressed when it comes from a profressional designer.

Edited March 8, 2009 by Martijn

[MicroM]

I understand the point that the Fantasy era has taken away from the realism aspect. But I also think this range has some pluses.

I also grew up in the 80's with the Castle range and loved it, but one thing I often felt was that it was lacking in "baddies". Now I do remember there were some, and perhaps the range I had when I was a kid consisted mainly of "goodies" but I always felt I was overwhelmed with good guys. I remember this was also the case with the Space range, and I even had a pretend enemy for my star fleet to attack, such was the proportion of goodies.

I like how this range has a clear good v bad element, and I also like how they include both elements in almost all kits.

Though to counter all this my 7 year old doesn't like the Castle range at all, he is obsessed with the Power Miners and Agents themes. I do suppose the LOTR influence of the past decade has contributed to the Fantasy range we see today. I am a big fan of it to be honest, I enjoyed building that Troll warship (see my review on it!). And i thought the other kits were really well done. I really want the Troll mountain fortress, and after missing out on the Castle Seige, I think I'll be well out-weighed bad guys to good guys now.

I also have a 8 month old, and who knows what he'll be into, he'll certainly be getting my Castle range when he's old enough (if the older one has developed a liking to it), but I dare say by the time he's reached that age we may have seen another shift.

[Rijkvv]

I really dislike the whole fantasy thing, but on the other hand I think that the "fantasy era" knights minifigs are the most beautiful castle fig ever produced.

I agree. I think without the Fantasy subtheme there are enough unrealistic themes left. And the knights are really beutiful.

If they need fantasy, why don't they use legends like King Arthur and Robin Hood? There is much doubt about the stories I think.

[Norro]

Welcome to my corner! I would agree about the classic vintage, though I might stretch it a little further. And I really don't like the fantasy element (which is now well beyond 'creeping' in). You'll see me complaining (in good humour) on this subject regularly, classic (historical light) castle is the way I build and what got me interested in Lego as opposed to action figures or other mere toys. You can see my 'legends' on my site, which show just how fanciful I get (not very)...

Thanks for sharing and God Bless,

Nathan

[Martijn]

I also grew up in the 80's with the Castle range and loved it, but one thing I often felt was that it was lacking in "baddies". Now I do remember there were some, and perhaps the range I had when I was a kid consisted mainly of "goodies" but I always felt I was overwhelmed with good guys. I remember this was also the case with the Space range, and I even had a pretend enemy for my star fleet to attack, such was the proportion of goodies.

I like how this range has a clear good v bad element, and I also like how they include both elements in almost all kits.

This is an interesting point I hadn't considered. As a kid, I never really had a need for bad obvious guys. There were black falcons and crusaders (although I didn't know them by those names), so there were two clearly opposing forces if I needed them. And although there wasn't an official black knight, I'd quickly created my own by putting a blue/black mounted knight together. Fits the black falcon colour scheme perfectly, so he clearly was there leader. The black falcons were a bit short on mounted knights, but the one they had was really good (because he had a three-feathered plume), and they had plenty of halberdiers and siege equipment.

But most of my play didn't involve opposing factions at all. Didn't need them in Space, didn't need them in Town (although in Town, my brother and I did have a complete city with city council and government and a country with other cities in it (one of them, New Hamburg, ran by two friends of ours)).

Never really saw the need for direct conflict in any theme, though. Castle was for me mostly about designing even better and harder to conquer castles. Besides, castle design with walls and towers is rather meaningless if your enemy has flying dragons and witches.

If they need fantasy, why don't they use legends like King Arthur and Robin Hood? There is much doubt about the stories I think.

I think Robin Hood in particular is an excellent idea! Lots of opportunity for wild adventures, you could make big sets for Nottingham Castle, the town of Nottingham, hideouts in the forest, and assortment of carts to rob and places to hide. I think a Robin Hood line would sell like wildfire.

[prateek]

20 years ago, little kids liked pretending the Forestmen had little adventures, but now, little kids like battles, so thats why TLC added an opposing force to the Kingdom

[Dadster]

This is an interesting point I hadn't considered. As a kid, I never really had a need for bad obvious guys. There were black falcons and crusaders (although I didn't know them by those names), so there were two clearly opposing forces if I needed them. And although there wasn't an official black knight, I'd quickly created my own by putting a blue/black mounted knight together. Fits the black falcon colour scheme perfectly, so he clearly was there leader. The black falcons were a bit short on mounted knights, but the one they had was really good (because he had a three-feathered plume), and they had plenty of halberdiers and siege equipment.

But most of my play didn't involve opposing factions at all. Didn't need them in Space, didn't need them in Town (although in Town, my brother and I did have a complete city with city council and government and a country with other cities in it (one of them, New Hamburg, ran by two friends of ours)).

Never really saw the need for direct conflict in any theme, though. Castle was for me mostly about designing even better and harder to conquer castles. Besides, castle design with walls and towers is rather meaningless if your enemy has flying dragons and witches.

I think Robin Hood in particular is an excellent idea! Lots of opportunity for wild adventures, you could make big sets for Nottingham Castle, the town of Nottingham, hideouts in the forest, and assortment of carts to rob and places to hide. I think a Robin Hood line would sell like wildfire.

Agreed! Bring back the forestmen (Led by Robin the Hood) with all the new colors. Dark red/ maroon for Will Scarlet, use of the darker greens along with the typical bright and kelly green we're used to. Some fish are caught by the river. The use of the rope bridges to gain access around the tops of the trees.

[BingoBrown]

20 years ago, little kids liked pretending the Forestmen had little adventures, but now, little kids like battles, so thats why TLC added an opposing force to the Kingdom

Uh, I was a little kid 20 years ago, and I'm pretty sure that I used my Forestmen as enemies of the various knight factions, much like Robin Hood vs. the Sheriff of Nottingham.

[Bazziman]

Hi Martijn,

I recognize much of your story. I started out with the yellow castle when I was 5 or 6 and 'upgraaded' to the grey ones during the late 80s. For more than 20 years my lego bricks lay dormant. Now I have a son (1.6 years old) whom I gave some new Duplo as well as my old Duplo. This triggered me to open up to two large plastic containers full of lego bricks. I've spent the better part of the weekend sorting out bricks and washing them (a LOT of them have discoloured unfortunately - anyone have a good suggestion to get rid of that brownish colour, the yellow, light gray and white brick in particular look very bad)...

I even bought a second hand Falcon's castle (the one with the little yellow tudor wall piece) and immediately felt the need to build an army of black falcons (whom I consider the coolest of all factions, ever). The castle came with some smaller sets of the more recent knights (with vampires and boars on their shields). I like the torsos and the new heads, but the 'weaponry' they have is ridiculous; too large swords, weird 'guns' and slings. I think I'll sell those and start collecting *some* of the new stuff - the stuff that doesn't look too childish or feels too much like cheating (and yes, those 5 by 6 wall pieces felt a bit like cheating in the 80s).

I'm seriously thinking of rebuilding a neo-classical world; in which the falcons are the 'good' guys and perhaps they have to fight thugs in the wood (woodsmen, robbers, some wolfpack) and keep the land safe from maurauding trolls / orcs and skeletons. I kinda like the new units (though most of the weapons suck) but I really dislike most of the new sets....In the mean time I've been googling the web and found all sorts of wonderful examples of people doing similar (or very different stuff) with their legos.

Oh, boy, the wife sure as hell ain't going to like this.

Oh, and some other ideas I have are:

- building a *real* crusader army (with custom shields / torsos) - you know with the red cross on the white background.

- upgrading the Falcons to a late middle ages army - with one or two cannons, crossbows and perhaps giving them longbows and large shield etc.

- upgrading the faces of the Falcons too (the moderns heads with grins, beards etc. to add a little spice / difference)

Did anyone notice how lego really tried to make all the minifigs a little different (different shield colour, helmet colour, different plumes etc). Especially if you try to build a bigger army (with say 10 or so swordsmen) this looks a bit weird to me....as I kid I never like that. Uniforms are meant to be uniform. ;)

[Martijn]

Did anyone notice how lego really tried to make all the minifigs a little different (different shield colour, helmet colour, different plumes etc). Especially if you try to build a bigger army (with say 10 or so swordsmen) this looks a bit weird to me....as I kid I never like that. Uniforms are meant to be uniform. ;)

Uniforms are a post-medieval invention, I think. Knights did tend to wear a tabard with their own or their lord's coat of arms, but also tended to wear a lot of custom equipment. Peasants at war often wore no identifying marks whatsoever (and got slaughtered by both sides as a result). It's only the men at arms (profressional soldiers in someone else's employ) who might wear uniforms, but there it's also more likely to be a coincidence because they use the same armour, weapon and other equipment, ,ade around the same time, and with the same tabard from, the same lord over it all. But if one soldier loses his shield, he probably gets a new one that looks slightly different from those of his colleagues.

When I was a kid, I always gave the shields with different edges, the different coloured legs, etc to the mounted knights, or I used them to distinguish the commander of the foot soldiers.

Other than that, I think we're exactly on the same page.

[Bazziman]

Uniforms are a post-medieval invention, I think. Knights did tend to wear a tabard with their own or their lord's coat of arms, but also tended to wear a lot of custom equipment. Peasants at war often wore no identifying marks whatsoever (and got slaughtered by both sides as a result). It's only the men at arms (profressional soldiers in someone else's employ) who might wear uniforms, but there it's also more likely to be a coincidence because they use the same armour, weapon and other equipment, ,ade around the same time, and with the same tabard from, the same lord over it all. But if one soldier loses his shield, he probably gets a new one that looks slightly different from those of his colleagues.

Sure. (Though I do think that the Romans and perhaps other professional armies had some kind of uniform).

I think my 'peasant' and rag tag / barbarian armies - the ones that more or less got raised on the spot will have lots of variation (lots of grey and brown). But the professionals - the full time soldiers that had armour and helmets and expensive equipment should look more uniform - at least that's how I feel about it. It's not 'real' realism, but especially the Black Falcons look really cool when they are in all black and blue - no yello plumes or saddles: those should all be white I think (or black / blue). Perhaps red should only be used as a special colour (to denote commanders and such). The variation (I think) should come from having them have different faces - I'm ordering some of those from various sources right now. Even the helmets should be of one colour if you ask me: black for the falcons, dark grey for the lions / crusaders. I always hated the black helmets on the crusaders. That just didn't look right when I was a kid.

I also feel that the ratio of horsemen to footman should be much lower. Like one horse per 20 soldiers or even lower. Especially in medieval times horses were for the knights only - not for the rabble.

When I was a kid, I always gave the shields with different edges, the different coloured legs, etc to the mounted knights, or I used them to distinguish the commander of the foot soldiers.

Same here. I *still* do that. Haha. Black or blue pants for the soldiers and grey pants (or something like that for the knights). I am very picky about that. ;) Edited March 9, 2009 by Bazziman

[AhabDarab]

Hello everyone. I have to be honest, the fantasy sets are the only reason I know this web site exists. For 2 decades I have seen Lego sets and walked right past them. Some caught my eye, but never enough to give thought of making a purchase. Last year I saw the dwarven mine set and I broke. I now own 3 mines, 3 troll warships, 5 king's castle sieges, 1 MMV, and more small sets than I can count. In addition, I have won several auctions for older sets to replace those lost through time. Finally, I have made many purchases through BrickLink. The end result of all of this? Four of my adult friends are buying new lego fantasy sets for themselves as well as one more for his kids.

Final total= no dwarves or trolls means 6 fewer AFOL's in my world.

I like all Lego Castle sets, but I love the fantasy sets.

Ahab out................

[Batbrick]

I love both really, but ultimately fantasy really gets my interest because it's a lot more useful for other themes than normal armies. Much like the aliens in space Police III will be very useful. Plus, it gives a lot more opportunity in my eyes for more fantastical architecture designs which I love.

That said, they should really bring back Forestmen. I NEED those caps and there is so much good in that line that it would be a shame if it were not seen again.

Batbrick Away!

[TomC]

I have this strange reaction to your post. First, I majored in History in college, and love my historic Lego castle stuff. But I love my fantasy as well.

Fantasy: I'd love even more fantasy than I've got. I wouldn't like to see history pushed out, though. I'd love a big castle set, on the order of the bigger street-corner buildings, as suggested.

On a side note, catapults are a fad, I think. They'll always be a part of Lego castle from now on, but I suspect there will be fewer of them. Dragons, however, are not; they'll be with us in newer forms as time marches on.

Basically, the bigger and more historical Castle I can get, the better. I'm torn. I want both a historical line and a role-playing line with lots more fantasy races and monsters.

About your son: the good news is, although your son may well outgrow his legos and have a Dark Ages, almost all boys and a whole lot of girls love building toys of all varieties; chances are, if you listen to what he likes and wants, he's going to love the entire duplo-through-adult experience.

And, finally, by far the best thing TLG has ever done thus far, in my opinion, is the Medieval Market Village.

-tc

I recently turned 35 and got my first Lego set in 20 years for my birthday. I never stopped loving Lego, but simply had way too many other things to do. Anyway, I got the Troll Warship, so color me surprised that Lego Castle now has trolls! I think I did notice the occasional ghost, skeleton or wizard over the years, but I hadn't realised that the theme had turned into a full-fledged Lego Fantasy theme.

I hope you'll allow me to get a bit nostalgic here. Looking through sites about all the different lego sets over the years, I got the impression that my childhood, the early '80s, was the Golden Age of Lego (although I imagine that's true for anyone's childhood, no matter what decade it was in). Classic (blue grey) spaceships seemed (to me) realistic at that time, unlike some of the black-grey stuff I got later, which had all sorts of big odd shapes that didn't mean anything to me (though it did get me to build Jayce and the Wheeled Warriors from Lego, but that's another story).

<snip>

So despite my rekindled interest in Lego, I feel a bit sad and nostalgic. Of course with my luck, our kid will hate Lego. Oh well, more for me.

PS: I love the medieval market! It's very historic, and it has tons of bricks! It's everything Lego should be. It's going to be high on my wishlist for my next birthday.

[prateek]

Uh, I was a little kid 20 years ago, and I'm pretty sure that I used my Forestmen as enemies of the various knight factions, much like Robin Hood vs. the Sheriff of Nottingham.

uh, soory i phrased it wrong, 20years ago, there were human enemies, and now, there are monsters and other creatures as enemies

[Zarkan]

Honestly, I like both of the ages of lego castle, although I do prefer the Fantasy subtheme. Although I don't own any classic castle sets, I think it was great that they gave lots of great small sets, many different human factions, and superb large castles. Also, that theme was the first ever to introduce modular buildings, which is an added bonus.

On the other hand, the sheer variety that the modern castle theme has given us makes me give top marks to the fantasy line as well. In just a few years, we've gotten a wonderful main human faction, undead skeletons, wizards and witches, orcs and trolls, dwarves, and even civilian figures like the maid, blacksmith, jester, squires, and bartender. We've also gotten a variety of buildings and lots of beautiful siege engines, and even a couple ships. Combinine that with a wonderful color scheme and amazing figures and weapons, and you have one of my favorite themes to date.

And honestly, I don't think that you can reasonably claim that the new castle theme is less detailed and more &lt;insert that tiresome argument&gt; than the old theme. I own the King's Castle Siege, and I must say that it's one of the most enjoyable and well designed sets I've ever bought, as well as an absolute joy to build. Different doesn't necessarily mean more simple, especially when you are talking about Lego.

[Martijn]

Honestly, I like both of the ages of lego castle, although I do prefer the Fantasy subtheme.

There's more than two ages, actually. There's Black Falcons/Crusaders, Black Knights, Dragon Masters, Fright Knights, and now Orcs & Dwarves. (And I'm definitely forgetting a couple.)

It looks a bit like a sliding scale from historical to fantasy. Interesting is that the extremes of this scale seem to be the best ones. Or the favourites, at least. Although that's probably because they were simply the best executed, and TLC slipped in between those two.

and even civilian figures like the maid, blacksmith, jester, squires, and bartender.

Falcons/Crusaders didn't have a lot of civilians, but it did have a few. But how was it during the '90s? Were there still civilians there? Or could the presence of civilians be a sign that TLC is putting more attention to the theme?

We've also gotten a variety of buildings and lots of beautiful siege engines, and even a couple ships.

I agree, but again, Black Falcons had lots of siege engines too. It's mostly during the '90s that things got a bit silly, I think.

So maybe the current line is just a return to the good old fashioned quality of the '80s, but in a slightly different theme.

Edited March 12, 2009 by Martijn

[Bazziman]

There's more than two ages, actually. There's Black Falcons/Crusaders, Black Knights, Dragon Masters, Freight Knights, and now Orcs & Dwarves. (And I'm definitely forgetting a couple.)

It looks a bit like a sliding scale from historical to fantasy. Interesting is that the extremes of this scale seem to be the best ones. Or the favourites, at least. Although that's probably because they were simply the best executed, and TLC slipped in between those two.

I think this is true. The old castle theme (80s style) was very well executed - the falcons especially still look very nice (even today). The stuff in between is childish (the King Leo stuff and KKI / KKII it's horrible if you ask me). The newers stuff is better - though it's a bit over the top (if you ask me) from time to time - the minifigs however are gorgeous. I've got half a mind of buying loads of trolls and skellies to attack my rapidly growing Falcon Army. Perhaps things will get so bad they need the crusaders to come to their aid. ;)

[Tyrant]

I like most of the Castle themes released. There are even parts of the KKII line that I like, like Vladek's fortress and his soldiers. I still have my Black Falcon figures from the 80's and my Orc (troll, if you prefer) and skeleton armies are both now in the triple digits so my interests are diverse. I do like the slightly more realistic look of the older sets, but I love the greater level of detail in the figures presently being released. I liked the fact that there were multiple human factions. But I also like that there are now orcs and undead (and I would love elves). I think that they can combine elements of both and surpass what they have already done. A good start would be releasing more than 3 sets in a year. I would love to see more sets like the Medievil Market set*. Perhaps a large, detailed castle is possible given TLG's willingness to make very large sets these days (look at Star Wars). I think the current line has room for a second human faction. It may take time to bring them anywhere close to Crownie levels, but that's fine. A rebirth of the Black Falcons would be nice. If not them then the Forestmen seem to be quite popular as well (and they would make good allies for the Elves if they make them). A return to the figure sets would be nice. I know they have something like them in the packs you can order online, but I am thinking more like the diversified ones they used to have. A set with an orc, a skeleton (they're cheap), a peasant, a crownie, and a dwarf. Move things around as the factions change, or split them up into humans (and allies) and non humans. Unlike Star Wars, they aren't restricted in makng sets of just figures with no vehicles. If they need vehicles, a set of a cart with a peasant, a human soldier defending it, and one or two orcs attacking would be good. Replace orcs as necessary. Similarly, a small peasant house under attack would make a decent set. If they want to go all out, have bricks for an alternate model of the house in ruins (or at least partially ruined). Maybe eventually we can get Orc peasants.

*I believe we will see more of these types of sets. In the US they have seemingly been on back order longer than they haven't been. This tells me that they seriously underestimated how many would sell. That tells me that either the set has been selling like hot cakes, or that they were willing to gamble that the set wouldn't sell as well as they would have hoped. Either of those is good news. If it's been selling so much they have to keep pumping out more, then they should be very interested in making more sets like this in the future which gets us that much closer to the super detailed castle a lot of us seem to want. If they were willing to gamble and didn't make many, then the sales should have massively exceeded expectations by this point, which hopefully also leads to more sets of the same type.

[Cavannus]

Keeping only the old realistic in order to teach history is a non-sense for me.

First, children can make the difference between the real world and a story world.

Second, what we adult think is historic, is actually mostly not. I mean we have a representation of what castles, knights, soldiers, etc. were, but this representation is false at 70%. So if you want to teach your children about Middle-Age by making them playing with those sets you think are real, you're wrong. Let them play and imagine their stories!

Furthermore the toys my parents played with in the 60s looked completly old-fashion and bothering in the 80s when I was a child. So now the toys -- i.e. the Lego sets -- I loved are not those that match today's children's whishes. I don't like their toys either but I believe I don't have to impose my preferences and judge theirs.

Don't forget: Lego is a toy before all, so it does make sense to get the same things as other toys including unrealistic features.

However I prefer the realistic lines far ahead of the fantasy lines. The BF and Lions factions have been already less realistic than the previous ones (e.g. those in the Yellow Castle) but the rest has been quite close to the reality as all of you know. I think the Forestmen look like old movies' Robin Hood (in green tights) rather than real rebels, but they haven't been a fantastic line either.

And I like the new current Castle sets because they mix historic designs and fantastic creatures so that you can select what you want (i.e. you can buy the Battle Pack and the Medieval Village if you don't want any troll, witch, etc.). I hope the KK2 had been only a (bad) dream... :P

BTW: thanks for having posted this topic. I'm happy with it! Before it I thought people like me who don't like the fantasy Lego sets were rare... But now I'm feeling better!

Edited March 14, 2009 by Cavannus