Peppermint_M Posted March 23, 2009 Posted March 23, 2009 Ok, so I have been wanting to work on a large scale project for some time, I have a subject, I have been collecting pictures for refrence and have even been planning for the little issues (like LDD not having parts I need) plus making a realistic plan on how to construct and purchase the segments one at a time through the factory. I want to draw out a floor plan on graph paper and I'm working out which modules I need in which order. One or two issues (like inconsitancies between images and scale= which details to miss) are still a bother but once I draw my floor plan those should be solved. I'm just wondering if there is anything I have missed, has anyone from experiance got any tips for success, any problems to warn about or some tiny seemingly insignificant thing that comes up during construction that they can tell me? I may let on what my project is, but right now its under wraps and secret from the internets so when I finish it (in who knows when, it is a big project) its a big surprise, if you ask nicely . Quote
JimBee Posted March 23, 2009 Posted March 23, 2009 If you haven't thought of this already, I would suggest building your MOC over a long period of time, say a few months. I'm not a MOCer myself, but I've seen that all of my MOCs that I have built over a long period of time have much better quality than those that a whipped up in a day or two. Plus, a long-term project gives you plenty of brain-storming time while your in the process. Quote
Ricecracker Posted March 24, 2009 Posted March 24, 2009 Well let me tell you, Jimbutcher is a genius considering he doesn't build many MOCs. The vehicles on my Flickr have clocked well over 30 building hours total, and the sausage factory has seen about 100 (It's further along than in the photos). I'm not one for making drawings first, but if you feel that it'll help you, then by all means go ahead. No matter how you do it, whether it's on paper or in your head, a plan does help. A lot. Just remember that a lot of building is trial and error, and that you may need to make a few orders than you first planned. I think I've outlined all the key points, but if I think of any more, I'll be sure to let you know. I can't wait to see what you have in store for us! Quote
VBBN Posted March 24, 2009 Posted March 24, 2009 Well, to start, it sounds as if you have a good idea of how to get started. Jim and Ricecracker have pointed some great tips regarding time. But I will toss in my thoughts. As a beginning, remember that on your first attempt, it won't turn ut right. No matter how much time anyone has ever put into a MOC, such as me, it just won't be done when you think. You'll see things that you want to upgrade, fix, move, etc. And that is okay. That is simply like writing an essay. You make the rough, edit, and come out with a product. Then you reveal it, get some advice from fellow members, and modify it again according to their tastes and your own. Second, overestimate. Say you have a $100 fund you want to put into this. Make it $150. When you get working, you will soon find that it grows, expands, and you go over your limit. Overestimate so that you aren't shocked with the outcome. Parts come at a price, and you need to realize that. Third, study. Take techniques from other members, lego, and your own thoughts. Maybe use lego's color technique to fill in open areas that won't be shown with less useful colors, like blue and red. Maybe use SNOT or MDT(many directions technique) when building. Dream. Cna't get to sleep? Think about various things that you can incorporate into your design. When you wake up in the morning, you will be filled with ideas. Finally, take notes. Wheteher they be when you are driving past something and like what you see, or something else. Have fun. f you have any questions, feel free to ask. Quote
Ricecracker Posted March 24, 2009 Posted March 24, 2009 As a beginning, remember that on your first attempt, it won't turn ut right. No matter how much time anyone has ever put into a MOC, such as me, it just won't be done when you think. You'll see things that you want to upgrade, fix, move, etc. And that is okay. Did I not include that in my post? I guess not..... That is simply like writing an essay. You make the rough, edit, and come out with a product. Then you reveal it, get some advice from fellow members, and modify it again according to their tastes and your own. Right, I have to have an essay done by Wednesday..... Thanks for reminding me Dream. Cna't get to sleep? Think about various things that you can incorporate into your design. When you wake up in the morning, you will be filled with ideas. Do you do that too? It works wonders when trying to come up with new ideas, although I often forget them. Many times, I'll be trying to fall asleep, having my mind wander, and suddenly realize that I've come up with a brilliant solution to a problem. I just don't like getting up to implement it Great tips VBBN, they really do help. Quote
VBBN Posted March 24, 2009 Posted March 24, 2009 Did I not include that in my post? I guess not..... Well, the more, the merrier. ;) Right, I have to have an essay done by Wednesday..... Thanks for reminding me Me too. Do you do that too? It works wonders when trying to come up with new ideas, although I often forget them. Many times, I'll be trying to fall asleep, having my mind wander, and suddenly realize that I've come up with a brilliant solution to a problem. I just don't like getting up to implement it Well, I keep a notebook next to my bed, so I can draw a picture or write out the idea, so I can boot my memory when I get around to building the MOC. Great tips VBBN, they really do help. Aye, that be the plan. Quote
Ricecracker Posted March 24, 2009 Posted March 24, 2009 Me too. Wait.... You're thanking yourself for reminding yourself, or you have an essay due on Wednesday as well.... Quote
VBBN Posted March 24, 2009 Posted March 24, 2009 Wait.... You're thanking yourself for reminding yourself, or you have an essay due on Wednesday as well.... Essay due Wednesday as well. Actually it's a rubric for History, but along the same lines. Quote
Mariann Asanuma Posted March 24, 2009 Posted March 24, 2009 When you say "large scale" project, about what size will this project be? (inches, feet?) Not to sound egotistic, but since I was a Master Model Designer at LEGOLAND California, I know a thing or two about building in large scale (4 foot long lady bug, 28 foot tall Skyscraper, etc). I totally agree with having some sort of plan. Depending on size, you have to plan for an interior structure of the model. The larger you get, the more structure you need to plan for. Definitely over estimate on time. I'm a pretty fast builder but some of my projects took months to build. Many of my current projects take at least a couple of weeks. Also think about your color scheme. Sometimes you plan on building a model just so, only to find that they don't make that piece in that color. If you are using the common colors like red or blue, this isn't as much of a problem, but it still can happen. If you have any other questions as you go along, feel free to ask me. Quote
CP5670 Posted March 24, 2009 Posted March 24, 2009 What theme is this model in? Certain themes and construction techniques (SNOT, etc.) require a lot more planning than others. Technic models are probably the most extreme cases of this. It is quite easy to screw up and have to redo large parts of the model if you don't have a good idea of how everything will be laid out before you actually start building. I've ended up abandoning a few Technic MOCs halfway through in the past because unexpected issues came up that couldn't be easily resolved (this was one example). For large models, I draw a very rough outline in MLCad before I actually start building, so I can better visualize the overall shape and dimensions. This is especially useful for Space models. I build kind of slowly in general, so some of my larger projects have gone on for a year or more and easily spanned a couple hundred hours. Quote
Peppermint_M Posted March 24, 2009 Author Posted March 24, 2009 Well, first of all, Thank you for all the advice. Secondly: It is a big Bley building. This is why I want to use LDD and Factory to build sections as I don't have the sheer volume of bley bricks, my time scale is certainly long. Yesterday afternoon I was planning from memories of the building in question how to break it down in sections. Finding pictures was certainly a shock (I didn't know my memory was that bad ). Basicly we could be talking months spreading on to a year or more purely keeping in mind how to break it down into affordable chuncks, let alone construction (digital and IRL) and modification time. To put it into perspective on cost and time, I took four hours in as many days making a poor from memory replica of one barely detailed corner that cost £50... As for exact size, I'm still trying to work it out. My reference pictures are being very useful and two in particular have given me an idea on where to start making it in minifig scale (lots of stonework in blocks that I can translate into one block=2 four by two lego bricks hight and a four stud width) but I need to mock up the floor in lego for a better idea on area (hight will be counted from bricks and there is some awkward unreplicatable detail i need to cut out or figure a method of "hinting" at before I can get a true hight.) There is one of the pictures I am using (of course mine will be complete, not ruined, that is just for a best guess on size and the only image of the exterior I could find) Quote
Captain Green Hair Posted March 24, 2009 Posted March 24, 2009 Planning is very important, read books on the subject, make plans of the model you want to build etc. Like Mariann said not every brick is available in all colors. Making an LDD model as test is good, but it will be far too expensive too buy it through Factory. I suggest you use Bricklink or other marketsites to gather the bricks. Don't be hasty about it, take your time to make it as you want. If you need a year to complete it, don't worry about it. Good luck! Quote
CP5670 Posted March 24, 2009 Posted March 24, 2009 Yeah, Bricklink prices tend to be a lot cheaper than PAB for most pieces, especially generic ones like bricks and plates. You will get a better selection there as well. Quote
Mariann Asanuma Posted March 24, 2009 Posted March 24, 2009 If you want to make that big of a project one thing I would recommend is not using LDD. I understand why you are using it is so that you can order exactly the right amount of bricks, but it will take you much, much longer to design the building that way. The reason I can build a relatively "small" building like this (it is 2 feet wide by 3 1/2 feet long by 2 feet tall) in only a few weeks is that I didn't spend hours digitally designing it first. What I did do was draw it out on brick paper (LEGO graph paper). I drew out the front, the side and some of the details on brick paper before I built the actual building. Then I prototyped the specific details like the doors and windows so I knew roughly what the whole building would look like. Once I started building I did add some interior support on the bottom and top, since it wasn't too big that is all that it needed. Yes, it took a lot of bricks, roughly 5000-6000 (I estimate). Since I buy LEGO in bulk most of the time at Pick-a-Brick and Bricklink I don't bother with getting exactly the right pieces for just one project. Even when I am ordering parts specifically for a project I always order a few extras because I know that I will eventually use them in something else. As for how long the project takes, that isn't as important. I build fast because I have to (they are usually commissioned models). I have one of my "hobby" models that will take me a lot longer since I am only building it when I feel like it. The important thing is that you enjoy the entire process. Quote
AwesomeStar Posted March 24, 2009 Posted March 24, 2009 I'm currently working on a massive Medieval village, using Medieval Market Village as a starter, its already quite huge, but I'm waiting for some money for base plates and stuff, so its on the shelf for now. In the meantime, I've got two awesome other huge projects on the go, so no rest for me! Just my Tuppeny Piece! ~A.S. Quote
Peppermint_M Posted March 24, 2009 Author Posted March 24, 2009 Ok, so bricklink is best for prices and parts. I'm begining to think I should go through with the many-coloured-mock-up MOC (using the parts I have to build "test" segments to see what kind of numbers I'm going to need, what will and won't work, scaling etc) and then rebuild it in the right colour by buying the parts online. Too bad I can't just buy a bulk bag of lego (in one colour) from lego themselves. Ho hum. Thanks for the advice and encouragement. Quote
Eilif Posted March 24, 2009 Posted March 24, 2009 Too bad I can't just buy a bulk bag of lego (in one colour) from lego themselves. There may be one way to do this. If you can go to a LEGO store, or find someone who lives near a LEGO store, you can buy PAB bricks by the case. The bricks for PAB come in boxes, and you can buy a box for about 70-80 bucks or so. I've heard that a box of bricks is a savings of at least 25% over buying them by the cup. Of course there's a limited selection, but if you have in mind specific bricks, that might be available you can call and ask a manager what they have. Otherwise, a search on Bricklink will likely bring up what you need in the quantities you are looking for, and it will almost always be cheaper than PAB online. PAB online is only cheaper for certain rare pieces and accessories and minifig parts. Your nearest store may or may not be here or may not be updated, but this will give you some idea of what kind of bricks are available throughout the chain. http://www.brickbuildr.com/view/pab/ Quote
VBBN Posted March 25, 2009 Posted March 25, 2009 Well, now that I see what you hsall be doing, I can better fit my suggestions to your project in particular. Since it's a building, you are in luck. Of most large projects, I find builldings and cars to be easiest. Firstly you must decide if you want an interior or not. This is a big step. It decideds whether A) You create a solid structure, and can focus more on detail. B) You create a stucture that is sturdy, but also has interior access, meaning harder details. I assume you will be deisnging an interior. The biggest thing I can recommend? Modules. Each thing you do should be in modules. It cuts the workload down, and is more promising. For instance, on my house I am currently making, I build each wall, and each roof segment. Then the outer walls, and four floor segments per room. This way, you can make them the same, and by taking it in small bites, you can better pay attentin to detail than woking on one massive structure. When the modules are done, begin to construct them. When each segment is added, you may have to secure them in place before moving to the next, so you have a sturdy structure. When all the segments have been added, you are, in my mind, half done. See, what my idea is, double every wall. Go around a second time, repeating the walls, but this time adding more detail. You then get depth. And then, go and wipe out the inner walls that you don't nee, so you still have the parts. Now if this is a first large project for you, I wouldn't recommend it, as it takes a ton of patience and time, and can get annoying. So let's look at the drawing you provided. Many small details, from what I can see. I think you will have the most trouble with the main entrance. I would suggest using SNOT, and maybe a technique like CC`. As for stain glass window mosaic, that will be costly, but a prominent part of the MOC. THe money you put into it will surley be worth it. I would suggest first planning the mosaic in CAD or on paper. And regarding the LDD issue, if you really must use a computer design, then I would suggest LDraw.org, it's a wonderful program, and althugh you can't buy the model, you can still see what it will look like, and get the names of all of the bricks. I shall continue tomrrow when I get home from school. =) Quote
CP5670 Posted March 25, 2009 Posted March 25, 2009 LDraw itself is only the parts library, but the package you can download there includes MLCad, which is the most common program to use with it. LDD should really only be used if you want to buy the model from Factory. It's designed for a different purpose than MLCad and other such programs, so the parts library is much smaller and includes only what is on PAB at the time. Quote
Peppermint_M Posted March 25, 2009 Author Posted March 25, 2009 Well, I will try to get LCAD and LDraw onto my computer. I want to build interior and exterior and make the building modular so I can remove the roof and second story. The internal detail is more important and I really would love to make it. The exterior was just going to be something else to try, but it all looks much harder to create, I might go for indoors, specificaly the back of the building, a bit of the sides (interior) as there are lots and lots of detailed images to use, after all that was my original plan. Thanks again for all the advice and after re-evaluating my finances I think it will be cheaper to build the interior of the back end. Quote
Freddie Posted March 25, 2009 Posted March 25, 2009 May I suggest that you also get BrickStore at the same time? It is useful for grasping the costs of projects, since it can import models from MLCad, run through all the pieces the imported model needs, and creates a list that details the cost of each piece individually - if they are available. It does so by downloading data from Bricklink, and you can yourself decide what prices it should use (current averages, six-month averages, lowest, highest etc.) depending on what accuracy you want. Obviously, it isn't smart, and you shouldn't thrust the prices the coughs up blindly, but it is an useful tool to see if the pieces are available, and if they are, how much they cost. Quote
hewkii9 Posted March 25, 2009 Posted March 25, 2009 I want to build interior and exterior and make the building modular so I can remove the roof and second story. The internal detail is more important and I really would love to make it. The exterior was just going to be something else to try, but it all looks much harder to create, I might go for indoors, specificaly the back of the building, a bit of the sides (interior) as there are lots and lots of detailed images to use, after all that was my original plan. Something I've found when trying to build anything on a larger scale [although this might just be my building style] is that it's hard to get a good looking exterior and interior together [like using headlight bricks on the walls, and having the hole gaping on the other side]. You might want to plan out where you want an interior, and just build interiors for those sections. Quote
Mariann Asanuma Posted March 26, 2009 Posted March 26, 2009 If you are going to build the interior and the exterior on thing I would suggest is to make the walls at least 2 knobs wide. That way you can cover up things like headlight brick holes with a wall panel piece on the inside or something similar. Quote
Peppermint_M Posted March 26, 2009 Author Posted March 26, 2009 Right, here is my new plan: Build back end to about three columns down from the back, inside and outside. This means I use less lego to build it, I don't need to spend so much and all the complicated front that I only have one reference picture for. This also means that the roof and upper story isn't included (further complicating matters). One end allows me to replicate the sections I have plenty of images of, I can guess the external detail using pictures from buildings of a similar type and it lets me have the parts I need to replicate scenes. An added bonus is that this takes up minimal space Ironicly this is what I wanted to do in the first place until I got a little carried away... Quote
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.