Plagarism

[Millacol88]

It really sucks you got your MOCs stolen. The only way to help prevent this is to, like Peppermint M said, date and uniquely watermark all your photos, and hope nobody claims them as their own. The worst part of this is that other people are getting praise for something they right-clicked and saved, and didn't put any effort into themselves.

[Toa of Whimsy]

Bring back corporal punishment. Maybe not in schools, but in some way, for the Internet :skull:

If it was me I would change the accounts of the kids involved so that RickRoll keeps playing when they login, their view of webpages is blocked by a large image of a toy duck on wheels, and their profile images would be changed from their photo to their photo with a SHOOP DA WOOP mouth over it, and all the comments on their page are changed to say "DO A BARREL ROLL"

but that would be more of an annoyance then a punishment. But it will do.

EDIT:

On a related note to plagiarism, I once was on DA and I came across a page that was full of artwork stolen from this guy (warning: this link is full of furries). The guy who had made it failed to put in mature warnings and put all of the drawings in the same unfitting category (which was "3-dimensional"). He defended his actions by saying the images were his as they were "saved on his PC".

I saw there was no use trying to be intelligent (judging by all the other comments) and just spammed his page full of comments with the same phrase over and over.

And there was this guy who would add stolen artwork to his favorites to point out that the artwork was stolen.

it ended with the thief getting banhammered and deleted.

So possibly the best thing to do to these kids is to give them a little too much of that playground bullying they might be foolishly thinking is absent from the internet

Edited April 20, 2009 by Toa of Whimsy

[Peppermint_M]

Sorry, what sort of response are you looking for?

Watermark 'em. Make sure that they have a highly visible datestamp on Flickr or MOC pages are wherever you post images and when/if someone steals the image and passess it off as their own you can tell the webmaster/moderators of the image host with your signed and dated image. As long as someone wants praise without effort they will steal images, that is why you either have to be cool with it and only notify the powers that be when they get dishonest physical gain (prizes in contests etc) or you have to make you image as secure as a banknote or just stop posting pictures on an open page. You are well known to Lego building communities so the kids who stole the images won't get far in the big boys world even if they are a big man on a kids website.

Ho hum, to be plagarised 'tis a most loathsome thing but also flattering. (hmm poetry...)

Ask the ambassadors to let lego know about the issue of plagarism and see if they have anything in place to prevent it. When I tried to put photos on my Club Page many moons ago they never went up because of issues during moderating, they must employ people to keep an eye on suspect images.

[Ralph_S]

It's clear to me that many posters here completely misunderstand my motives. Of course I don't like it that other people copy my pictures, but that is really not the core of the problem. I have no doubt that my pictures will ultimately be removed by LEGO. My motivation is not that I feel I should be getting credit. I get more credit than I could ever expect. Every single one of the MOCs in those pictures has been blogged on the Brothers Brick and most have been on Gizmodo. Whenever I take models to public events I have people walking up to me and asking me whether I am Ralph S. or Mad Physicist. Me getting credit really is not an issue.

I understand that many of you feel that if I would watermark my pictures they wouldn't be copied. I also understand that you mean well, but you are completely missing the point. Even if it were practical to add a watermark to all my pictures already on the internet, it wouldn't solve the problem. It's obvious that most people who copy pictures and pretend that they are theirs don't give a toss about whether or not it's blindingly obvious that they are lying and don't give a toss about anybody telling them that what they are doing is wrong. Me adding watermarks wouldn't stop people from copying my pictures and it certainly wouldn't stop them from copying other people's pictures. This would still be happening if each and everyone of us would be adding watermarks. I've given plenty of examples and could give you loads more.

My own pictures only matter in this conversation because without them being copied and a friend of mine informing me about it I wouldn't have been aware of the scale at which plagiarism occurs on Lego Universe, and I used them as an example to show you how common it actually is. The reason why I even brought it up here on Eurobricks is because somebody else here had already noticed the problem with LEGO Universe and I felt I should mention that I had already informed LEGO about it, because I've seen it happen with my own pictures. I also felt that it would be useful if our ambassador contacted LEGO about it. Finally I was curious as to why people commit plagiarism in the first place. That's it.

Ralph

Edited April 20, 2009 by Ralph_S

[bugefun]

If it was me I would change the accounts of the kids involved so that RickRoll keeps playing when they login, their view of webpages is blocked by a large image of a toy duck on wheels, and their profile images would be changed from their photo to their photo with a SHOOP DA WOOP mouth over it, and all the comments on their page are changed to say "DO A BARREL ROLL"

but that would be more of an annoyance then a punishment. But it will do.

EDIT:

On a related note to plagiarism, I once was on DA and I came across a page that was full of artwork stolen from this guy (warning: this link is full of furries). The guy who had made it failed to put in mature warnings and put all of the drawings in the same unfitting category (which was "3-dimensional"). He defended his actions by saying the images were his as they were "saved on his PC".

I saw there was no use trying to be intelligent (judging by all the other comments) and just spammed his page full of comments with the same phrase over and over.

And there was this guy who would add stolen artwork to his favorites to point out that the artwork was stolen.

it ended with the thief getting banhammered and deleted.

So possibly the best thing to do to these kids is to give them a little too much of that playground bullying they might be foolishly thinking is absent from the internet

The problem is that every comment is moderated and any type of bullying or spamming will be blocked. Also any comments with links will be blocked.

[blueandwhite]

It's clear to me that many posters here completely misunderstand my motives. Of course I don't like it that other people copy my pictures, but that is really not the core of the problem. I have no doubt that my pictures will ultimately be removed by LEGO. My motivation is not that I feel I should be getting credit. I get more credit than I could ever expect. Every single one of the MOCs in those pictures has been blogged on the Brothers Brick and most have been on Gizmodo. Whenever I take models to public events I have people walking up to me and asking me whether I am Ralph S. or Mad Physicist. Me getting credit really is not an issue.

I understand that many of you feel that if I would watermark my pictures they wouldn't be copied. I also understand that you mean well, but you are completely missing the point. Even if it were practical to add a watermark to all my pictures already on the internet, it wouldn't solve the problem. It's obvious that most people who copy pictures and pretend that they are theirs don't give a toss about whether or not it's blindingly obvious that they are lying and don't give a toss about anybody telling them that what they are doing is wrong. Me adding watermarks wouldn't stop people from copying my pictures and it certainly wouldn't stop them from copying other people's pictures. This would still be happening if each and everyone of us would be adding watermarks. I've given plenty of examples and could give you loads more.

My own pictures only matter in this conversation because without them being copied and a friend of mine informing me about it I wouldn't have been aware of the scale at which plagiarism occurs on Lego Universe, and I used them as an example to show you how common it actually is. The reason why I even brought it up here on Eurobricks is because somebody else here had already noticed the problem with LEGO Universe and I felt I should mention that I had already informed LEGO about it, because I've seen it happen with my own pictures. I also felt that it would be useful if our ambassador contacted LEGO about it. Finally I was curious as to why people commit plagiarism in the first place. That's it.

Ralph

I'm sorry, but I think you're being a tad hard on Peppermint M. Her suggestions were simply a pragmatic preventative measure to this problem. Sure, a watermark won't stop or negate all of this plagiarism, but to dismiss the idea as simply 'missing the point' is a bit harsh. Honestly, the internet is rampant with illicit theft. A watermark won't prevent theft but it certainly goes a long way in stripping the theif of any preceived credibility. I just don't see anything wrong with Peppermint M's suggestions. The harsh reality of this is that internet theft isn't going to stop. As people have already mentioned; these theives will simply find a new site to host their stolen images. A watermark isn't a solution, but it is better than doing nothing.

Plagiarism is not a new phenomenon and it isn't going away anytime soon. As an artist, it only makes sense to do everything in your power to prevent image theft if it concerns you so much. By all means, complain to LEGO but don't be so quick to dismiss watermarking.

[Skipper 24]

OK well I just had a quick scan of LEGO to make sure nothing of mine was copied, not that they have much to copy but I found something very sad. 2 Kids have copied each other and they have exactly the same pic. C'mon LEGO I'm sure you could spot this. I don't know if this is one of the members work but I doubt it. Link it's the AT-RT driver.

[Ralph_S]

I'm sorry, but I think you're being a tad hard on Peppermint M. Her suggestions were simply a pragmatic preventative measure to this problem. Sure, a watermark won't stop or negate all of this plagiarism, but to dismiss the idea as simply 'missing the point' is a bit harsh. Honestly, the internet is rampant with illicit theft. A watermark won't prevent theft but it certainly goes a long way in stripping the theif of any preceived credibility. I just don't see anything wrong with Peppermint M's suggestions. The harsh reality of this is that internet theft isn't going to stop. As people have already mentioned; these theives will simply find a new site to host their stolen images. A watermark isn't a solution, but it is better than doing nothing.

Plagiarism is not a new phenomenon and it isn't going away anytime soon. As an artist, it only makes sense to do everything in your power to prevent image theft if it concerns you so much. By all means, complain to LEGO but don't be so quick to dismiss watermarking.

I don't know how many examples I have to show you of watermarked pictures or pictures that are otherwise easily recognisable as not belonging to the person posting them in order for you to realise that watermarking makes little difference. I know it is well-intentioned, but it is missing the point, because the issue isn't that my pictures are being stolen, but that there are copied pictures all over that particular site. If I were as concerned about my pictures as you seem to think I am and I would be hell-bent on preventing people from copying my pictures, rather than watermarking the thousands of pictures that are already on the internet, I'd keep my things on flickr (where who can download them is restricted) and simply delete the rest. I have contacted LEGO not just about my pictures. I've told them that I've found many more pictures that have been copied and intend to contact every builder that I know whose pictures are among them. Rather than having all of them contact LEGO on their own, I've offered to send LEGO a list of all the copied pictures that I already managed to find, so that they can remove them and to then inform the other builders. This is not about my pictures.

What I think is harsh is that people start attributing a motive for raising this issue to me that I don't have and then start questioning whether I am building in order to get credit.

Ralph

Edited April 20, 2009 by Ralph_S

[Eskallon]

I agree, I was looking through the star wars gallery and saw the 35,110 army of clones then given out in the jetix mag. I thought what the heck and it had been voted for almost the very most. I thought what the hell as he said oh me and some friends put this army together and they even got the number wrong. It was silly and I know for a fact I now own one of them figres so they are complete liars. It is stupid, though the people at lego don't really look through it properly as any one would know they are fake.

[bugefun]

OK well I just had a quick scan of LEGO to make sure nothing of mine was copied, not that they have much to copy but I found something very sad. 2 Kids have copied each other and they have exactly the same pic. C'mon LEGO I'm sure you could spot this. I don't know if this is one of the members work but I doubt it. Link it's the AT-RT driver.

That is from a site that sells custom clone troopers. Here is the link.

[Skipper 24]

Even worse they copied the pic off the site.

[Derek]

HA! Idiot! I am going to comment on the picture-

Wow, this is so good they are selling it on a website!

http://www.clonearmycustoms.com/cgi-bin/it...cat=3&id=10

Oh, wait, You STOLE the picture!

I hope to God that they approve it.

[bugefun]

HA! Idiot! I am going to comment on the picture-

I hope to God that they approve it.

I doubt that they will. They don't allow links in comments.

[Skipper 24]

You don't need to add a link into the comment, just wrote they stole they epic. I also think we have strayed a little off topic .

[5150 Lego]

I don't know how many examples I have to show you of watermarked pictures or pictures that are otherwise easily recognisable as not belonging to the person posting them in order for you to realise that watermarking makes little difference. I know it is well-intentioned, but it is missing the point, because the issue isn't that my pictures are being stolen, but that there are copied pictures all over that particular site. If I were as concerned about my pictures as you seem to think I am and I would be hell-bent on preventing people from copying my pictures, rather than watermarking the thousands of pictures that are already on the internet, I'd keep my things on flickr (where who can download them is restricted) and simply delete the rest. I have contacted LEGO not just about my pictures. I've told them that I've found many more pictures that have been copied and intend to contact every builder that I know whose pictures are among them. Rather than having all of them contact LEGO on their own, I've offered to send LEGO a list of all the copied pictures that I already managed to find, so that they can remove them and to then inform the other builders. This is not about my pictures.

What I think is harsh is that people start attributing a motive for raising this issue to me that I don't have and then start questioning whether I am building in order to get credit.

Ralph

Ralph,

I see the point your trying to make, and in short, there just really isn't anything you, me, or probbly even TLC can ultimatly do about it. When someone chooses to post pictures on the internet, it no longer becomes thier property. While a watermark can help proving that the pic is yours, its not going to prevent anyone from claiming that its there's, as there's no real way to prove that you were the one that orignally took the photo, short of a pic of you holding said model.

So... At least from my perspective, there really is no answer to your question. Can you prevent plagarism from happening? No. Why do people do it? Many reasons. Though i can't think of one good one. The main reason i can think of is selfishness, and laziness.

I'm sorry not just for Ralph S, but for anyone who has had ther pictures taken from them. I had this happen to me myself (though not lego related). Like i said, i don't know if you can prevent somehting like this from happening.

[Ralph_S]

Ralph,

I see the point your trying to make, and in short, there just really isn't anything you, me, or probbly even TLC can ultimatly do about it. When someone chooses to post pictures on the internet, it no longer becomes thier property. While a watermark can help proving that the pic is yours, its not going to prevent anyone from claiming that its there's, as there's no real way to prove that you were the one that orignally took the photo, short of a pic of you holding said model.

So... At least from my perspective, there really is no answer to your question. Can you prevent plagarism from happening? No. Why do people do it? Many reasons. Though i can't think of one good one. The main reason i can think of is selfishness, and laziness.

I'm sorry not just for Ralph S, but for anyone who has had ther pictures taken from them. I had this happen to me myself (though not lego related). Like i said, i don't know if you can prevent somehting like this from happening.

I agree. We're not going to stop plagiarism. The only thing any of us could do to prevent our pictures from being copied is to not post them online, and since we enjoy looking at each others pictures, that's not really an option. The only thing LEGO could do to prevent plagiarism on their site is to pull the plug. I don't think it is reasonable to expect them to do that. Considering how easy it is to recognise pictures that don't belong to the people who post them -even to somebody who doesn't follow brickshelf, MOCpages and Flickr and even without a watermark- I do think I can reasonably expect LEGO to make more of an effort. In that light, I'm happy to report that it would seem that the pictures I mentioned in this thread have already been removed

Cheers,

Ralph

[Legoking]

That really is just not right. Kids taking credit for other people's MOC's after the original MOC creator has spent hours of work and a ton of his time into making it. And to hear that this kid used this "pirated" picture in a contest is just messed up. I hope this kid was banned from Lego.com. That is what he deserves. I mean really, I can't believe this kid would be that greedy.

LegoKing

[Toa of Whimsy]

Actually now that I think about it, maybe a DA-style system isn't so bad after all... Maybe LEGO can obtain an older version of DA and modify it for LEGO purposes

Let's just hope LEGO doesn't allow Journals or stuff like that or we'll see a lot of annoying drama.

That and we'll NEVER see an end to the Naruto minifigs.

[Freddie]

Actually now that I think about it, maybe a DA-style system isn't so bad after all... Maybe LEGO can obtain an older version of DA and modify it for LEGO purposes

They don't need the entire gallery system DA uses, which is standard software anyways. They only need to implement a report function similar to that DA and other art-sites use, to lets us quickly point out if a creation is stolen and where it's stolen from. If I'm not mistaken, just about all websites that feature user-submitted content has a system similar to this. Why LEGO hasn't implemented one is beyond my understanding, and if they have the capacity to quickly moderate comments, they should have the capacity to quickly remove creations, if we can point out where its stolen from. Especially when there's contests and competition involved. Theft should not be rewarded, but creativity and effort should - that's my stance in this matter.

[CopMike]

Ralph, I can´t find your pictures any more on LU - I think they have been removed by the TLG people.

CopMike

[Ralph_S]

Ralph, I can´t find your pictures any more on LU - I think they have been removed by the TLG people.

CopMike

You're right. They were taken down sometime on Monday, even though I didn't send them the list of copied pictures yet. It would appear that they're either reading this thread or your comments did the trick. Many of the other copied pictures (by other builders) are still on-line though. I'm not sure what to do about those: send LEGO the list, contact the individual builders so that they can contact LEGO themselves or publish them here.

Cheers,

Ralph

Edited April 22, 2009 by Ralph_S

[Toa of Whimsy]

I'm not sure what to do about those: send LEGO the list, contact the individual builders so that they can contact LEGO themselves or publish them here.

Cheers,

Ralph

Do a barrel roll Tell the creators directly, it's their MoC stolen so it's kinda their problem unless you're friends with them/know them/care about it enough.

And these "kids" may well be them pretending to be kids... Okay, that's highly unlikely. But tell the guys who got stolen from first. Take matters into your own hands only if they ask for help or they have disappeared from the internet and you cannot let it stand.

[Ralph_S]

Do a barrel roll Tell the creators directly, it's their MoC stolen so it's kinda their problem unless you're friends with them/know them/care about it enough.

And these "kids" may well be them pretending to be kids... Okay, that's highly unlikely. But tell the guys who got stolen from first. Take matters into your own hands only if they ask for help or they have disappeared from the internet and you cannot let it stand.

Thanks for the advice. I know some of them in person and have already told one of them when I actually saw him yesterday. The rest will have to be e-mail this weekend.

I'm pretty sure the kids are actual kids.

Cheers,

Ralph

[Toa of Whimsy]

I'm pretty sure the kids are actual kids.

Cheers,

Ralph

"I'm pretty sure that 16-year-old girl in the chatroom is a 16-year-old girl and not someone's 56-year-old pedophilic uncle or a 12-year-old boy in a remedial english class trying to cause hilarity."

Sorry about that, but still...

Edited April 26, 2009 by Toa of Whimsy

[Ralph_S]

"I'm pretty sure that 16-year-old girl in the chatroom is a 16-year-old girl and not someone's 56-year-old pedophilic uncle or a 12-year-old boy in a remedial english class trying to cause hilarity."

Sorry about that, but still...

The situations are rather different. I can imagine a reason why somebody on a chatroom would pretend to be younger tha they are, but on LEGO universe that would make less sense. It doesn't really matter either.

Ralph