What Puts the CLASS in Classic Town?

[WesternOutlaw]

Over this past week, I've been looking at all of these great Classic Town sets to get a some nice ideas for the terrific EB Classic Town Contest.

It got me thinking, just what puts the CLASS in Classic Town?

Is it the color variety? the classic European charm? "minimalist" design? the old 4-stud wide vehicles, and/or other?

While I know the answer to this question may be a combination of things, what do you like best about Classic Town?

Another interesting Trains & Town discussion...

[Saint]

Nothing really... I'm no town's person... Well.. I do like the "postaccocaliptic ruinscene trashing your city" look

* sorry if postaccocaliptic is spelled wrong

SPACE !!!

[WesternOutlaw]

Nothing really... I'm no town's person... Well.. I do like the "postaccocaliptic ruinscene trashing your city" look

Then why are you reading this thread and responding? (and no, I don't want you to answer). This is about Classic Town.

[Darth_Legois]

The simplicity I guess...It's so simple and uncomplicated.

So I voted "Minimalist" design (more with less)

[prateek]

I'd say the simplistic design is the #1 factor. Just think about it, the more complex sets or sets that have special pieces arent very likeable whereas the simpler ones are more popular (eg the camper vs city life)

[Clone OPatra]

When I was younger, I couldn't stand the city sets that were around (those being in the mid to late 90s). There were still a few sets of the more classic design around then, and I disliked them too. Even as I got a little older, and started seeing pictures of the Classic Town sets (which I never got any of because they were before my time), the only thing I really liked about them was how old they were, and that everybody was just a smiley.

But recently, also in looking for inspiration for my contest entry, new thoughts struck me about Classic Town that made me start greatly loving it. Back then, the sets were all about imagination. They gave you these odd looking cars, that don't resemble cars in the real world, but all you really needed was something to represent the things you saw in everyday life, and then you were set for hours of fun. The same thing goes for buildings and boats and planes and helicopters, all of these things were not trying to build realistic models of everyday objects, rather they were just representing the real life things and invoking creative thought.

In a nutshell, I really love Classic Town today because it comes from a time when LEGO was more about creativity then it was about building realistic models of things. All of the models were so cute, and they all transformed the objects we find in a real town into little images, more of which was in the mind than in the model.

I hope my explanation is understandable, and not too "thoughty" for some people. Do any of you agree with me?

P.S. I've been looking at some Classic Town sets on Bricklink, and hope to add some nice 80's sets to my collection soon.

Edited April 20, 2009 by Clone O'Patra

[penguinz]

I would say that it was because of their "Minimalist" design. The sets were simple with no complex or extremely detailed elements. Also you had to use your imagination to fit them into a "modern" layout.

[Ricecracker]

But recently, also in looking for inspiration for my contest entry, new thoughts struck me about Classic Town that made me start greatly loving it. Back then, the sets were all about imagination. They gave you these odd looking cars, that don't resemble cars in the real world, but all you really needed was something to represent the things you saw in everyday life, and then you were set for hours of fun. The same thing goes for buildings and boats and planes and helicopters, all of these things were not trying to build realistic models of everyday objects, rather they were just representing the real life things and invoking creative thought.

I definitely agree with this, but am also going to add some of my own thoughts. I feel that the real great thing about classic town to me is the simplicity, opportunity for creativity and that warm fuzzy feeling that you have inside whenever you see a classic town set. I'm going to analyse each of these factors.

1. Simplicity

The simplicity of classic town is clear. Open back sets, mainly basic bricks, minimalist design, etc. I think that our roots as builders-no matter the theme-start with these 3 ideas. As we grow as builders, we remember our pasts, and realize mistakes we've made, and sometimes laugh over them. This feeling of pride, self-achievement, and happiness then overpower us, causing us to love the foundations of these feelings; Classic Town.

2. Opportunity for Creativity

The opportunity for creativity, as CP pointed out, is greatly opened up by the lack of bounds we see in specific, single use elements, which are not used to a great extent in Classic Town sets. Set free by the chains of these pieces, we are free to imagine whatever the pieces we hold will perform as, in our own theatre of our minds. I think two of the keys to happiness are imagination and creativity, which are running amuck in these wonderful sets of ours.

3. Warm Funny Feeling

While this may very well be a nostalgia felt by some, I can't comment on that, as I was not alive during the 'Golden Age' of Classic Town. On that note, I get a warm feeling inside every single time I look at a Classic Town set, and I just can't explain why. I think this is the true factor that puts the class back in Classic Town, at least for me.

While these sentiments may not be felt by all, I can honestly say that these three things are what put the Class back in Classic Town. Simplicity, Opportunity for Creativity, and That Warm Fuzzy Feeling inside.

[Clone OPatra]

While these sentiments may not be felt by all, I can honestly say that these three things are what put the Class back in Classic Town. Simplicity, Opportunity for Creativity, and That Warm Fuzzy Feeling inside.

I heartily agree with all three aspects, and I too get the warm fuzzy feeling that you describe when I look at Classic Town sets.

Another part of the Class in Classic Town for me is that they are from before my time. As the saying goes, "the grass is always greener on the other side," or translated for this case "what I never had the opportunity to get seems much more desirable than that which I can easily get now."

[WesternOutlaw]

Great comments everyone! Definately a few reasons why we love them. I agree with the majority of the opinions.

I went ahead and added two additional choices to the poll (opportunity for creativity and rarity/scarcity).

1. Simplicity

2. Opportunity for Creativity

3. Warm Funny Feeling

While this may very well be a nostalgia felt by some, I can't comment on that, as I was not alive during the 'Golden Age' of Classic Town. On that note, I get a warm feeling inside every single time I look at a Classic Town set, and I just can't explain why. I think this is the true factor that puts the class back in Classic Town, at least for me.

I don't know about the "warm fuzzy feeling factor". This is more of an emotion/feeling than a reason. I definately get it though, and it's probably the nostalgia factor for me.

I actually voted for nostalgia factor. As I get older, I realize that I am drawn back to my childhood.

As an example, I wonder if I would still like Classic Town had it not been so predominant during my childhood? If ExoForce (or any other theme) had been popular during this time, would I feel the same about it?

It's very interesting to see the comments of younger collectors who were not children during the early - mid 80s. Do you like Classic Town compared to the new City sets? This thread might better answer the question.

[keetong]

I didn't vote for one reason there are to many choices. Can you change it to more than one choice?

[Ricecracker]

It's very interesting to see the comments of younger collectors who were not children during the early - mid 80s. Do you like Classic Town compared to the new City sets? This thread might better answer the question.

For me, it depends on the set. Two years ago, I purchased a used 6394 Metro Park & Service Tower or of Ebay for about $90 CAD. I still have that set built, and I've loved it since the day I saw it. As the current City line is rapidly increasing in quality, I think the line between which of the two I favour is starting to blur. An example I'd like to use is this: I would still rather get a 6482 Rescue Helicopter over a 7738 Coast Guard Helicopter and Life Raft any day, even though I forsee my 7738 being built for quite a while, and I think I'd rather the camper coming out later this year over a 6694 Car with Camper. For me, it all has to do on the individual cases. I think the way that I've come to think of it is because I grew up in the 'Dark Age' of Lego (Childhood-Eurobricks was '95-'06), Classic Town is what I yearned city to become; to follow it's roots. I guess I happened to use it as a reference of what City had the potential of being, yet wasn't. I hope you understand what I'm getting at, as it's kind of hard for me to explain.

[Eilif]

I voted for nostalgia. I think classic town is absolutely charming, but I know that warm fuzzy feeling is just nostalgia peeing on my leg.

The simplicity of design would be a close second, but the simplicity is more a function of effective set design conducted within stringent cost controls. I think that if Classic Town Sets were complicated and detailed, we would look back at them with just as much fondness as we look back at the simple lines of the Classic Town that actually exists.

My question would be why classic town and not earlier LEGO town'ish sets? I think that that has to do with the appearance of Minifigs, which revolutionized LEGO, and the relative affordability of Classic Town sets. They aren't cheap, but they are cheap enough that most anyone can collect Classic town, and the more people collect it, the more people get interested, and the critical mass of collector interest helps keep classic town at the forefront of our collective minds and nostalgias.

[mania3]

For me, it is definitely the classic European charm. I suppose I've always seen it to be such an admirable quality to me, even when I was a young fan.

[Svelte]

For me, it is definitely the classic European charm. I suppose I've always seen it to be such an admirable quality to me, even when I was a young fan.

I don't really know what people mean by 'European' charm? Probably the only two sets that I see as distinctly European are 1592 Town Square (with the half-timber shop and the yellow Castle facade) or maybe the 1620 Chocomel promo set.

Other sets from around the same time such as 6390 Main Street to me seem more American, with their wide boulevards, spacious streets and broadly spaced shop facades.

Most sets from this era, however, are suitably generic - houses, bike shops, garages, mail vans, post offices. Perhaps that is the appeal - of reality, not fantasy - that a child could create (or recreate) the things familiar to them in brick form. Kind of like the ABS version of painting a picture of a house with family and pets around them. The nostalgia then comes from returning to a place of familiarity, pleasure, where you had absolute control over your surroundings. However, as shown in the Idea Books, the horizon of Classic Town is always limitless, always beyond reach - so the pleasure also comes from the creative act of expanding that childish empire.

I think that's why the road baseplates were so important back then - as they were the primary avenue of expanding your Town - like a grid or the next piece of a jigsaw puzzle that made the overall pattern larger. It seems a shame that the sense of this has largely been lost. I can see why these decisions are made, but I do think it's a shame that things like the treads on the new City Dozer don't function on a smooth road plate surface, only on something like carpet which provides more friction.

I do however think the spirit of Classic Town lives on. The City Farm set 7635 4WD with Horse Trailer is beautifully designed, a simple concept executed wonderfully with nice figs, a fun and detailed build, and great colour scheme and parts. To me, it definitely has the feel of a Classic Town build, even if it is a little larger than vehicles from that era. Similarly, the 4999 Vestas windmill is the kind of modern classic that not even the Idea Books would dare to imagine! The windmill is huge and impressive, but the very simple and neatly built house (albeit updated with Power functions) and the cleverly landscape mountain area really integrate this to make it an exemplar of Classic Town.

[CP5670]

What exactly is considered classic town here? There were big differences between, say, early 80s, late 80s, and mid 90s town sets, although I like them all.

I like the use of the basic colors in them. That made it easy to collect a lot of pieces in the same colors for MOCs, which is harder to do today unless you use Bricklink or PAB. The overall higher quality bricks, included road baseplates and large amounts of printed bricks are also things I appreciate today, as well as the far more impressive box packaging and inclusion of catalogs back then. Many of the printed pieces were fairly generic and had wide applicability in MOCs (the arrow and grill tiles are good examples), and the same applies to the types of minifigs used back then.

The simplicity had its appeal too, but it was simplicity only in a certain sense. The sets had actually gotten much more large and complex around the time I was a kid, in the late 80s to early 90s, but I like how they still obviously looked like Lego, both the sets as well as the parts. This can be said about some but not all sets and parts today. This is actually one reason I'm not that keen on the modern, curved and highly studless style that is common in many MOCs these days, as I think that distinctive, blocky look is part of the appeal of Lego models in general.

Nostalgia and rarity are part of it, especially since I spent hundreds of hours staring at sets in the catalogs back then and have invested a lot of time and money into acquiring some of the sets off ebay over the last several years. However, there are some things in the poll that I disliked even when I was a kid. I always found the open backed buildings strange and often added hinged rear walls to the sets I bought, whenever I had enough pieces available. I was never a fan of the 80s car design either (not because they were 4 studs wide, but the proportions were just off) and remember being quite excited by the somewhat larger race cars and trucks in the mid 90s.

Edited April 21, 2009 by CP5670

[MetroiD]

What exactly is considered classic town here? There were big differences between, say, early 80s, late 80s, and mid 90s town sets, although I like them all.

That's a really good question... I myself grew up with the town sets of the early 90s, and to me THEY are the "classic" ones. I can't bring myself to rebuild, say, an early 70s set, simply because that was way before my time and there is no emotional connection present there. But I'll get back to this later. Comparing "classic town" sets, no matter if they're from the 70s, 80s or 80s to nowadays' town sets, I can see a lot of similarities and I do believe that TLG are back on track with their town sets after the unbelievably lousy designs of the late 90s/ early 00s. To me, that was the only period were there was no such thing as "town" and most of LEGO's sets in that direction could directly be qualified as "rubbish".

So in that sense, I blieve that Classic Town is what you'd even get if you buy the upcoming City Corner! It's open-back, it offers a simple construction with a lot of playability, it represents a charming, vivid scene... Aren't those all features of classic town as well? I mean, LEGO has progressed through the years and, fortunately, we've been given the chance to choose between more and more different parts and colours to suit different needs. In my mind though, that does not in any way contrast with the "idea" and "class" of Classic Town. It's simple evolution - and from the majority of posts on the previous page, I get the feeling that there IS indeed no such thing as "Classic Town", save for the nostalgic feelings we all experience when rebuilding / looking at the town sets from our respective childhood. And I do think it is indeed that warm fuzzy feeling which turns something into a "classic" for each and every one of us.

[General Armendariz]

So I voted "Minimalist" design (more with less)

Same here

I got enough Classic town sets to tell me what they do.

[tedbeard]

Nothing. Classic town sets are cute and suitable for children or nostalgia but there is nothing about them that inspires me to build in that style unless I want to make something for my kids to play with.

Sorry if I am a speed bump in the way of the takeover of the Trains and Town forum by the Classic-Town faction.

What exactly is considered classic town here?

Good question. I thought we were working on these general guidelines:

• 4-wide cars vs 6-wide cars
  
• facades/three walls vs four walls
  

I thought it was that simple but I could easily be wrong.

Edited April 21, 2009 by tedbeard

[legotrainfan]

I voted for minimalist design. It's the simplicity of classic town sets I find so appealing. The designers had to work hard to create a good set since there weren't so many special bricks available back then. I really love that simply style. It also spreads a feeling of nostaliga. Maybe I'm simply biased since I was born in 1981 and grew up with a lot of classic sets... at least I saw them in the shops and catalogues. I don't own many of them.

[prateek]

For me, it depends on the set. Two years ago, I purchased a used 6394 Metro Park & Service Tower or of Ebay for about $90 CAD. I still have that set built, and I've loved it since the day I saw it. As the current City line is rapidly increasing in quality, I think the line between which of the two I favour is starting to blur. An example I'd like to use is this: I would still rather get a 6482 Rescue Helicopter over a 7738 Coast Guard Helicopter and Life Raft any day, even though I forsee my 7738 being built for quite a while, and I think I'd rather the camper coming out later this year over a 6694 Car with Camper. For me, it all has to do on the individual cases. I think the way that I've come to think of it is because I grew up in the 'Dark Age' of Lego (Childhood-Eurobricks was '95-'06), Classic Town is what I yearned city to become; to follow it's roots. I guess I happened to use it as a reference of what City had the potential of being, yet wasn't. I hope you understand what I'm getting at, as it's kind of hard for me to explain.

i agree i like the older ones compared to the new ones because they're so simple

[Klaus-Dieter]

That's a great and very interesting topic, TheBrickster!

This is a very hard question. Or let's say it isn't a very hard question but it's hard to have only one choice to vote for.

Nevertheless I'd say the most important thing for me are the Minifigs.

European Charm/Design

Please correct me if I'm wrong but about some years ago when I browsed Brickset I looked through the old catalogues and I remember that there were a lot of European houses before, too.

Use/combination of the traditional Lego color palette

Since I have - apart from the new greyish color TLG uses for the weapons in the new "Castle" theme - no problems with the new color palette this is for me no argument. I'd of course be unlucky if the old colors would disappear completely - but as long as the most of them don't that's not that important for me.

"Minimalist" design (more with less)

This is surely no argument for me! And that's even one point because of which the Classic Town sets have been always not my favourite sets (I do only own one or two very little - but I mean even if I'd have the chance or the will to buy some). Too minimalistic is bad. Imo the more realistic the sets look the better it is - the only thing is that the buildings and mainly the vehicles should nevertheless don't get too big.

It's not that the Classic Town sets were absolutely bad - in contrary mainly the architecture of the buildings was even much better and mainly much more varied than nowadays buildings (which look often too much like only functional buildings). But the interior of the buildings was bad (often there was nearly nothing which you could count as interior) and the vehicles looked too simple in comparison to vehicles of the late 80ths and early 90ths.

Imo a Classic Town set can not concurate with a that awesome set like 10184 Town Plan and even not with the great 7641 City Life!

4-stud wide vehicles

That's simply a big pro of the Classic Town sets since I really prefer 4 stuck wide vehicles over 6 stuck wide.

Of course TLG showed us mainly this year that 6 stuck vehicles do not necessarily have to be big and nothing else but that the "6-stuck-wideness" brings even a lot of opportunities for awesome details and more realism. So my complete animus was destroyed and I now accept 6 stuck vehicles as long as they include car doors and awesome details.

Nevertheless somewhere in my heart I still stayed fan of 4 stuck wide vehicles and nevertheless like them more like 6 stuck wide.

Open back structures

That's again a big pro of the Classic Town sets. Open backwalls are 1. cheaper, 2. they make playing much easier, 3. they need less space and 4. it's imo much nicer to be aible to look inside a building without having to put away the roof or other walls.

But remark that this was only a development in comparison to the sets before - the open backwalls luckily stayed (apart from a few exceptions) until now.

Unique elements/pieces

This is one argument, too, which adds that classic atmoephere to these sets. Indeed there were some elements you regrettably can't find in nowadays sets, e. g. the big antenna or some of the great minifig torsos.

For my final City layout (and even for my center of my Lego City (which of course mainly will consist of 10184 and a little park) I wanted to add a special street lantern like seen in the classic set Main Street. So the last days I tried to find some simple 2x2 transparent clear bricks - but they seem to have completely disappeared. I'm wondering a lot since when I bought the release of this lovely set in 2003 this brick was included. And on PaB as well as on Ebay you can well find all sorts of transparent bricks - only no transparent clear 2x2 brick. I really don't understand that. So I'll try and search if there is at least one of these bricks left by my father's "collection" of Lego bricks. I think I'll find at least one - but it surely won't look that good and fitting to the nearly new one of the rereleased Main Street set. So I know this problem, too, and so I'd even say that the Classic Town sets were and still are valuable because some of their rare pieces.

Minifigs

This is the most counting argument for me! The sets before Classic Town appeared contained minifigs, too, but these didn't have moveavle legs and arms and were very simple regarding the color. So the new minifigs were a big improvement!

But like with the open backwalls here it's the same: we luckily have minifigs included in all City sets today, too.

The torsos imo partly improved from the 70ths until today. But the heads imo didn't. I much more preferd the classic smiling face since it was universal useable. Every minifig had the same face. No, they were no clones but since every minifig had the same face there was no problem with giving a minfig a special character. But today with the many different faces it looks simply bad if you have some minifigs side by side which have the same face since the faces show individual attirbutes. To have some minifigs with different faces if of course a big improvement - but when TLG includes always the same faces or the same torsos in different sets that becomes unrealistic and boring - and it simply doesn't look nice.

Another aspect is the number of minifigs. Whereas the count of minifigs in the most of the City sets after the early 90ths up to today's City sets is regrettably very, very minor (apart from some exceptions like in the awesome 10184 Town Plan or the great 7641 City Life), the Classic Town sets included masses of minifigs. And for me the minifigs are the heart of every set - if there are too less minifigs or bad designed minifigs heads and torsos there must be a very attractive other element included in this set that I decide to buy this set.

New factor (the sets were a 1st for Lego)

Not much to say here since I mentioned this point already with the last points.

Nostalgia factor (they came out when most AFOL were kids)

I can regrettably only partly agree here since in the 70ths I was not yet born and I can't remember the sets of the 80ths and early 90ths since I was only a young child there (of course now I know these sets - but I can not remember having known them when I was a young child).

But I agree that they have a nostalgia factor for me, too. Not very much because they are now that old but supposably because of their so peaceful and lovely atmosphere and supposably because of their high count of minifigs and different architectual buildings - and even buildings which were desgined not only like functional buildings.

Abundance of standard bricks (opportunity for lots of alternate creations)

That's no argument for me. When I want to build some MOCs I can buy bricks boxes with different bricks and even doors and windows seperately.

Simple boxart

I think that this is not a that important argument. Nevertheless I want to mention that with the new background of City sets TLG has since 2005 imo the set boxes don't look more attractive than the boxes of the Classic Town sets which had actually no background,

Idea Books, Catalogues, & Box Art (provided lots of inspiration)

Like the abundance of standard bricks this is no argument for me, too.

Overall opportunity for creativity

I have to agree here. Since there were not only functional buildings included in these sets, since there were many vehicles included in these sets and since there were so many minifigs included in these sets the opportunity to create something on your own, the possibility to use your fantasy and your talent to build something on your own, was much bigger than with the most of the sets of the last 15 years. This year TLG made - mainly with the new awesome sets in summer - a big improvement forwards and more in the direction of City sets of the late 80ths and early 90ths. So let's hope that this will continue some years!

Rarity/Scarcity (never had a chance to purchase)

This is not a very important point for me since 1. I bought the very few sets I want some years ago (of coursed used but nevertheless in a very good condition) and 2. since when I look at this year's City summer sets I have the hope that TLG will release some sets similar to the Classic Town sets (of course no rerelases and there even will be many changes - but nevertheless) in the next years and so I'll perhaps have the chance to get some classic looking sets but with more interior in the buildings and more accessory soon.

The only thing I wish I'd have is the Cargo Center and the Airport Shuttle.

Sorry for the very long comment. But this is imo really a very interesting and even very important theme - so I wanted to write a bit more detailed. I hope somebody will read it (at least some parts of it) nevertheless.

The next days (and supposably even weeks) I'll come here only very seldom since semester has begun this week and now there is really much work - so in the next time you won't have to read that detailed comments from me . So have a nice time and see you soon!

Klaus-Dieter

[eti]

I'm looking into Classic Town because I'm building something for the classic town contest at the moment. Which means setting aside everything I'm used to and trying to remember what those sets looked like when I was little...

I do have mixed feelings about these sets. Actually, when I was little, I did not like them very much - I loved the minifigs and the roadplates (well, I had one) and the overall more realistic look, but on the other hand I hated the open back structures and I didn't like the new windows either. I thought the old, pre-minifig houses had a much better look.

Right now I still think the new windows and doors were not very good and I'm still no big fan of open backs, but I do value how this line has been the start of all further development in parts and models. There has never been such an important redesign in Lego sets as in 1978, when along with the minifigs the whole minifig scale universe was born as well. Before 1978 the figures simply didn't match the buildings at all and there wasn't much unity. But it appears to me that Lego needed quite a few years to come with sets that actually look good. So I voted for the 'new factor' here.

[Ricecracker]

i agree i like the older ones compared to the new ones because they're so simple

If you fully read what you quote, I did not actually say that I prefer the old sets. Rather, I said that it varies depending on the set. I'm impartial.

[prateek]

If you fully read what you quote, I did not actually say that I prefer the old sets. Rather, I said that it varies depending on the set. I'm impartial.

ok i agree that i like certain sets over newer "versions"