Pros and Cons of the various types of trains.

[Piranha]

Since this is about motorizing your LEGO train I will not comment on models that change over the years

Some are better than others

9V-

Pros:

- Has alot of power and no restraints

- No batteries no recharge needed

- easy to make/modify trains run on it, just add the 9v motor

Cons-

- Track needs to have metal rails, more expensive switcher rails

- Long layouts require electricity to reach to all areas

- motors burnout if used frequently

RC

Pros:

- No cords needed to operate

- Track is cheaper and larger layouts possible since no electricity needed

- can run on 9v track independently

Cons-

- 9 batteries needed to operate, if using rechargeable not so bad

- Although the motor is the same size as 9v you still need a place to house batteries, making past trains need of modification to house the power

- Motor is weaker

- only 3 channels, means only 3 trains can run at same time

PF:

Pros:

- more powerful motor than RC

- RC has more channels

- runs on any type of track

- rechargeable battery pack

Cons:

- Too much equipment needed

- initial cost to power each train is about $150 usd

- Train has to be built around PF in order to work

- equipment takes up a lot of space on train, interior details removed

There really is no perfect train developed yet, but 9v was pretty good

RC would be the best if it had a stronger motor and you are using rechargeable batteries

Also good because you can add onto your 9v layout and operate independently

PF is my least favorite of the latter

Only use is for the Emerald Night currently

[muffinman42]

even useing the moter from the RC trains, an extension wire, a reciver and the battery box theres still alot to fit in a loco.

so thats a big downer on PF, mabey a smaller battery could be made that needs rechargeing more often but would be easyer to fit into smaller tank engines, i really want to make a A1x terrier to pull my train but there so small its nearly imposible! a smaller reciever would be nice, maybe only one chanel(only red or only blue) to lower costs and make it sell able.

i might get 16 9V curves, a speed regulator, connectors and a moter from bricklink!

though i could moterish a coach.

[Follows Closely]

Would you recommend the rechargeable battery packs for one jut getting into trains? How long do the AAA batteries last in the 7898?

[Toastie]

I guess we should divide this discussion into at least two sections:

Modifications 1) allowed 2) not allowed. With that:

1) My favorite system the combination of PF with 9V. Having trains running on batteries is still not going well with me, for whatever reason (maybe it looks like riding on a horse, right Swoofty? I love that phrase ... )

Pick-up power from the track, run that across a bridge rectifier into some electronic intelligence (that would have been nice as well, a micro controller type thingy like the RCX/NXT but on much smaller footprint, maybe built into the empty space of the PF LiPo) and from there into motors you see fit - 9V types, RC types PF types or M, XL, mini motors ... Here, double back loops work very well, when electrified sections are isolated with a piece of flex track ...

2) My favorite system 9V when you want to run stuff on less complex layouts - and PF when you are running 8 trains at the same time on shared track sections.

I guess the bottom line is: It all depends. All but the RC stuff (somebody must have had too many Aquavits up there in Billund) is nice for its own purpose.

Pulling power: I agree with Sava that the PF motors are strong, but you are referring to the XL monsters, right? If so then battery drainage may become a severe issue and we should go to point 1) above ...

Best wishes,

Thorsten

Edited April 29, 2011 by Toastie

[legotrainfan]

You say that one pro of PF is that you can built more detailed steam engines with those components. Well, I think you can also build very accurate steam engines with a 9V motor. Just make it the base of the tender.

I can see a kid daring his brother to lick both tracks at once, which would likely be similar to licking a 9v battery.

As I child someone made me touch both contacts of a 9V battery with my tongue. I don't know who played this trick on me. I can't remember. The feeling isn't nice but it is far from being dangerous.

[Brickimad]

[quote name=

As I child someone made me touch both contacts of a 9V battery with my tongue. I don't know who played this trick on me. I can't remember. The feeling isn't nice but it is far from being dangerous.

...You didn't do it again!!!

Seriously, PC has gone too far. It if carries on, there will only be push lego trains left, as 9v is far too dangerous - might blow up the world. Oh dear.

I never injured myself, on 12v trains, now my day job is handling 400-11,000 volts as an electrician. Taught me common sense, not going through life with blinkers on, the kids will learn nothing, until it's too late.

Edited April 29, 2011 by Brickimad

[fred67]

I still test 9v batteries with my tongue... is that wrong?

[mrblue]

well, I sum up this: 12v is the best choice, BUT... no more available. too bad! let's get to the second place: 9v... BUT no more available... this is bad. last choice: PF. hopefully this is available. BUT it takes a lot of space and you have to change batteries. BUT you have no choices left, so I end that we (I) have to take what we can get.

of course you can buy from bricklink, but it's still a matter of time until you'll be able to find needed parts.

so, we (I) have to deal with what we have and what we can buy in large quantities!

and I have lots of 12v era trains and motors, but my next huge layout will be PF with a small loop with few switches for my 12v trains that will not be converted.

anyway, I think there are many more dangerous things to do with electricity than just test batteries with tongue, you can even think about kids inserting metal things inside plugs, and then for sure you'll see the real bang!

by the way have you ever tried to test 12v layouts with your tongue?

few days ago, I made a ldd project that I'll real brick build during next days of a PF little diesel shunter that can hold all components inside, you can have a look here

jayhurst's steam switcher is very good! and I'll may steal something from that!

have a nice lego train day

mrBlue

Edited April 29, 2011 by mrblue

[peterab]

You say that one pro of PF is that you can built more detailed steam engines with those components. Well, I think you can also build very accurate steam engines with a 9V motor. Just make it the base of the tender.

That only works for some tenders where the wheel spacing matches the 9V motor. PF is far more flexible though more difficult, also the XL motor is way more powerful which is useful for heavy AFOL carriages.

It does seem to me that as AFOL train builders get more skilled, and try and better replicate details of real trains more closely, they tend away from prefabricated parts like train doors, and the train motors.

[F0NIX]

Just a question from one that is new to LEGO trains.

Some of you mentioned RC, do you mean the IR (Infra Red) control that was before the PF?

If RC stands for Radio Controlled then I cant seem to find any info about that.

If RC stands for Remote Controlled then it could be mixed up with the PF (Power Function) that also can be remote controlled with IR transmitters.

I have both these PF/IR systems and also have some old 4.5v systems.

And can also add to both PF and IR systems that they can be controlled from Mindstorm NXT system. And I think that is a very positive aspect about them.

Off course you can have some intelligent control systems with the 9v LEGO trains too (DCC), but that is not a LEGO-only system and the way you have to modify the train motor is not for everyone to do. With the mix of PF and NXT the intelligent train control can be done by almost everyone with out modify any LEGO components.

[peterab]

Just a question from one that is new to LEGO trains.

Some of you mentioned RC, do you mean the IR (Infra Red) control that was before the PF?

If RC stands for Radio Controlled then I cant seem to find any info about that.

If RC stands for Remote Controlled then it could be mixed up with the PF (Power Function) that also can be remote controlled with IR transmitters.

RC stands for Remote Control (as far as the train line goes), and yes it can be confused, but unfortunately that's how the LEGO group named it. Yes it was the infra red control before PF.

[Legoist]

Someone should clean up this thread, organize all the useful info in the first post, and make it a sticky.

As far as my personal preference, at the moment I'm trying to simply focus on train locos/wagons/structures design avoiding any power system until the day wireless powering is available.

Or at least wireless charging... something like the following working for LEGO motors, where you would just put the locomotive on top of one of these chargers and charge it up would be already great (as long as we could also miniaturize the batteries more, although the PF motor+battery system already isn't taking up too much space on the locos).

http://www.wirelesspowerconsortium.com/video/

[Duq]

Seriously, PC has gone too far.

...

I never injured myself, on 12v trains, now my day job is handling 400-11,000 volts as an electrician. Taught me common sense, not going through life with blinkers on, the kids will learn nothing, until it's too late.

Totally agree! There's no better way to learn than by making mistakes and that's the one thing children are no longer allowed to do. But that's a discussion for another time...

Oh, and I've had 220V on my fingers more than once. Not pleasant.

PF is far more flexible though more difficult, also the XL motor is way more powerful which is useful for heavy AFOL carriages.

Yes, PF is flexible but the big problem with PF and steam engines is the amount of stuff you need to hide inside; the battery, receiver and motor.

[peterab]

Yes, PF is flexible but the big problem with PF and steam engines is the amount of stuff you need to hide inside; the battery, receiver and motor.

Agreed, thats the 'more difficult' part I was referring to. Though Holger Mathis' BR80 proved it can be done well in even the smallest loco. I'm still struggling with powering my moc though

[Duq]

Yeah, that BR80 is annoyingly clever, isn't it? It is 8-wide though, with a 6-wide boiler. That doesn't suit every loco.

[mrblue]

It is 8-wide though, with a 6-wide boiler. That doesn't suit every loco.

actually it's 6 wide the boiler and 7 wide the cabin! it's unbelievable how to fit everything there, but during the past days I tried to "copy" that design and I finally made it!

it's a wonderful loco even if I'm not a fan of 7 or 8 wide trains, I think it's one of the best small engine I've ever seen.

next days I will try to build my own copy.

have a nice lego train day

mrBlue

Edited May 6, 2011 by mrblue

[SavaTheAggie]

Pulling power: I agree with Sava that the PF motors are strong, but you are referring to the XL monsters, right? If so then battery drainage may become a severe issue and we should go to point 1) above ...

No, I was referring to the PF Train motor - it's got more torque and pulling power than the 9v train motor. But yes, the XL motor is the most powerful that LEGO has created.

--Tony

[Duq]

actually it's 6 wide the boiler and 7 wide the cabin!

No.

The cab is 8 wide as you can clearly see in this picture:

BR-80_Power-Function-Steamer_7 by holgermatthes, on Flickr

[mrblue]

No. The cab is 8 wide...

when I said 7wide I had in mind the loco from jayhurst that has been posted few posts ago, which is another example of fitting lots of pf stuff in an even more compact design!

have a nice lego train day

mrBlue

edit: spelling check

Edited May 8, 2011 by mrblue