Is Eurobricks the New "AFOL" Meta-Forum?

[Eilif]

First off this could be a touchy subject for some AFOL's, so please don't anyone use this thread to bash other forums.

Now then...

I've been thinking about the AFOL online community and how it gathers and communicates. Eurobricks has been on the grow recently. Classic Pirates, Classic town, an increase of activity by representatives of AFOL organizations, retailers, etc, and other evidence points to the possibility that Eurobricks is functioning in "meta" a role previously covered by Lugnet.

Much has been made of the splintering of the AFOL community from the time when there was one central hub of the AFOL community. Clearly Eurobricks has not usurped the role of the various specialty online communities that have separated, (Classic-Space, Classic Castle, BZpower, etc) but EB seems to be the main English Language site for those looking for a LEGO community that covers most areas of interest to AFOLs. As well as hosting at least one of those "Specialty" communities in the form of "Classic Pirates" EB provides forums for "town and train" and other topics that are among the most active forums of their kind.

Clearly there are some differences between EB and Lugnet

1) The format is very different

2) EB has not attempted to replicate the multitude of specialized forums that LUGNET hosted

3) By virtue of it's policies, and the anonymous nature the mean age of EB is a good deal younger than Lugnet, and hosts a youth following that Lugnet never had (whether this is good or bad is topic for another day) with it's fairly strict age guidelines and policy of listing actual names for members.

All this taken into account, it still seems to me that EB is the new "big dog" of General Interest LEGO communities. So what does that mean. I'm not sure, but here's a few thoughts to spark conversation.

1) If EB is the new "meta" site, are there additional responsiblities that they have to the LEGO fan community?

2) Is "Meta site" a title or role that EB wants to have?

3) Would operating in such a role require changes to EB?

4) If EB does develop into a LUgnet-like site, what connections should it form with other LEGO fan communities.

5) Observing EB's well done, but rarely commented upon Classic-Town.net blog, what is EB's future in the Blogosphere?

Discuss??

[Zepher]

I've always personally thought of EB as the center piece. Perhaps it's becuase I'm still fairly new to the Lego Community, or that I'm still fairly young compared to others, but I've always thought that EB was already the Meta forum.

[JimBee]

Well, I can safely say that Eurobricks is one of the biggest Lego fan sites ever- adults or otherwise. The site gets mentioned everywhere there's news- TBB blog, Brickset, etc. We also have a great community here, which attracts many people, as opposed to sites with stricter rules. Additionally, we have a huge amount of reviews here, mainly thanks to the Reviewer's Academy, more than any other site I've visited. Not only do we have a lot of reviews, we have a lot of quality reviews, not just some pictures thrown together with pros/ cons. Great MOCs are also present here.

Of course, the big reason Eurobricks is so popular is because of the news brought by various members. Whether or not other sites argue against "leaked" news is beyond my caring, because the staff will always remove news and images that TLG asks them to do.

Yep, I'd say EB is a great place to be, my favorite Lego site by far. As for your questions on Eurobricks being a "meta" site, I don't think it makes a difference. New members will join every day because of the site's great qualities, and the staff will handle anything.

[Davey]

The 'fragmetation' of the AFOL community is a topic that both Stacy and I have been giving a lot of thought to the past couple of months. It does indeed seem that Eurobricks is rapidly replacing LUGNET as the place for AFOL's to gather. These days were lucky to see ten or fifteen posts on LUGNET in a given day. I do notice that the NXT and Technic crew seem to still use LUGNET. The Train faction uses it a little, but I see more and more people posting either here or Trains-N-Town.com. The sheer lack of activity forced me to come over here and finally register. I'm not saying that's a bad thing...but I am sad to see LUGNET starting to do what appears to be a 'slow burn'.

I think what really keeps people from jumping on LUGNET is the format and the member fee. In order to stay logged in so you do not have to authenticate your post, you must pay the $15 registration. Now...I was more than happy to pay that fee. I feel that the use I get from LUGNET easily justifies that fee. Others may not feel the same way. So be it. The format also is an 'older' format and is not as flashy as Eurobricks. Does this matter? Maybe...I guess I like both and I think both have their place.

One very important point regarding LUGNET is that there is a TON of historic AFoL related information on that site. It is a virtual treasure trove of information from the past. I highly recommend heading over there and searching the archives sometime. There are some really good FAQs that...sadly...are not updated anymore but still have some good information and links. The Train FAQ was one of my favorites for a long time. Sadly...it hasn't been updated in years. I guess all this babble is saying we can't lose the information that is on LUGNET. Somehow it has to be preserved.

I'd like to informally chat about this at Brickworld with anyone who is interested. Hopefully we can corral Hinckley and CopMike and talk with them about it as well. I'd like to see the community come together more. Fragmentation is never good and we can do so much more together.

-Dave

ToT-LUG

[Eilif]

Zepher,

Thanks for that. The fact that a new LEGO fan already sees EB as the Meta, is quite a sea change from the way things used to be, and give us something to think about.

JimButcher,

Good point about the news. Even as EB has tightened it's rules about what spoilers it will print, and begun to cooperate with TLG more directly to combat early leaks, it has remained THE source to visit for the latest LEGO news. I rarely see LEGO news on other sites where EB doesn't have it earlier or nearly simultaneously. It seems that when the newsfinders find news, EB is one of the places they tell it to first. Juggling a relationship with TLG and getting the scoop is a quite a fine line to walk, and it speaks well of the staff that the balance seems to be working.

I would say though that there is some benefit to giving serious thought to EB's role in the AFOL community. It's not just a matter of growing for the sake of growing, it's a matter of nurturing community. Like uncle Ben says, "With great power..."

Dave,

I admit, seeing you and some of the others from LUGNET appear here at EB was one of the catalysts for putting this stuff down in a topic. You're right though, that the information on Lugnet is a treasure trove of philosophy, techniques, and history of both LEGO and the development of the AFOL fan community. No matter what new form the LEGO community takes, that should be preserved.

I'm sure there will be alot of discussion about this at Brickworld, both informally, and formally. I know that the "Serious Play" workshop and the "LEGO Online Community" roundtable will discuss this topic, and I imagine it will be on alot of folks lips outside the classroom as well.

Lastly, as you say, there are a few groups who use it regularly. The technic and Mindstorms folks seem to gather there, and there are a couple of international clubs that still seem to be utilizing it often. As much as I like EB, I'm kind of sad that I returned to the Brick after the golden age of Lugnet and didn't get a chance to see the earlier development of the LEGO fan community. Still, the future is bright, and -if convention attendance is any measure- the community is exploding in size. Who knows what's next?

Edited June 9, 2009 by Eilif

[CP5670]

This is an interesting topic. Although it would be great if EB takes on Lugnet's role as the premier AFOL discussion hub, I don't think it is quite there yet. EB is fairly popular but the activity is limited to certain categories (as you said, Technic/Mindstorms is still much more popular on Lugnet), but this continues to improve over time. It is actually the least active of the three forums I frequent today, although the others aren't Lego related.

I used to post in lugnet.technic regularly many years ago, around 2000-2002. What eventually put me off was the forum interface adapted from a newsgroup setup, which, among other things, made it a big hassle to create posts and prevented you from editing or formatting them. I thought that forum software was outdated back then, and today it has honestly become ancient. Apparently becoming a member eases the posting process to some extent, but I find it absurd to pay fees for basic functionality that any decent forum supports for free these days, and I wonder if the place might have retained its activity if it had transitioned to a proper forum software at some point. A few years ago, I tried getting back into it, but the server was inexplicably rejecting my email address at that point. I eventually registered on EB after glancing over several other forums, as it was reasonably active without having overly strict rules or focusing on one theme only, and I haven't looked back since then.

Still, it's a pity that the Lugnet community has shrunk so much, as that used to be the real attraction of the site. Although I hear that the overall "mood" there changed over the years, the Technic community I knew was one of the friendliest groups I've seen on the internet, and I had a lot of interesting discussions with them. I continue to go over there occasionally to search for old information, although I don't post anymore.

Edited June 9, 2009 by CP5670

[Bonaparte]

I don't know if we are the new "AFOL" Meta-Forum, it's not a goal the staff is actively pursuing. We do believe quality is very important and don't take the quick and easy way. Whenever we add something to the site we take care to prepare special graphics and things like that. Often it delays the introduction of something new, but we don't want to do it any other way. The team behind Eurobricks is constantly thinking of ways to improve the site and we are preparing some goodies that will be revealed as time goes by (so stay tuned ) . Quality also means a fast and stable server to run our site which is something that gets more and more important as a community grows and demands on the server rise (we found out about this in practice). But most important is the community feeling which is very strong on Eurobricks. Since I joined in 2006 I met a lot of great people with whom I love to talk about my favorite hobby; some even became friends in real life. I wished I could go to Brickworld this year, but it will not be possible. However, next year I've promised myself to go there and I'm already looking forward to it (even though I hate to fly). As a last word I would like to say something about the staff, the guys working on Eurobricks daily because they love this place and the Holy brick. They are the engine that keeps us going and I've never seen a finer, smoother engine than our staff. I'm usually not a sentimental guy, but when I talk about our staff I tend to get a bit sentimental.

[Shadows]

For me, the bottom line is that EB offers a place where a wide range of fans can come and participate, regardless of theme or level of activity. We have some incredible builders, talented customizers, prolific collectors ardent supporters and even the occasional critic of LEGO. We have members who have never and will never leave the LEGO family and those who are literally rediscovering LEGO and exploring the possibility of coming out of their dark ages. New people find a home here every day, each for their own reason.

Our expansion seems to come as a result of our efforts to provide a relaxed yet reasonably organized and mature platform for that wide variety of members.

One way that we are working to do that is through the expansion of our theme focus to include the things that the community is the most interested in. As Bonaparte said, keep watching, there are some nice additions coming, additions that can only provide more opportunities for the membership and the online community as a whole.

We certainly aren't trying to replace anyone, but as we make some of our intended expansions I expect to see even more of a migration of serious fans to the site, coming from a variety of places. We gladly welcome them and hope that EB is one more place for them to enjoy their passion and call home.

As for the Classic-Town.net blog, thank you for the kind words, and the reminder... I knew there was something I forgot to do today.

[Captain Zuloo]

I think Eurobricks already has the monopoly on theme forums. It has a great driving force behind it too. Lugnet maybe died out a little, and most other forums that have attempted to do the world-wide LEGO forum thing have kinda drowned in EB's wake... The reason Eurobricks is so popular is that everyone is here to discuss LEGO in a friendly way, and the few rules that the site has, people obey in order to keep that friendlieness.

EB is a great community, and the users respect that. That's why the community feel is maintained.Well, that's what I think anyway.

[KimT]

I think Eurobricks already has the monopoly on theme forums....

I doubt it.

There's a lot of great sites out there dedicated to a single theme or just a few.

Eurobricks is an all-round site and I don't think we're even close to competing with site fully dedicated to Trains, Technic or Bionicle for example.

I really have nothing to back this up as I am spending 99% of my time here and the rest on BH. (which is also an all-round site)

Eurobricks has grown steadily over the years and we've seen members come and go during that time. My guess is that a lot of those who've left have entered their 2nd Dark Age because of work, kids and life in general.

I wouldn't go as far as calling us number 1 or anything like that - we just do what we like and luckily a lot of people like what and how we do it.

Due to that growth we have some additions coming up to keep in touch with the latest movements within the community.

You've seen some of them as we've split Bionicle and Technic apart acknowledging that they're not as similar as the parts they use.

Our goal is to keep the forum smooth and running to the likeness of our members.

[SlyOwl]

I think Lugnet still has more active Technic and Train subforums because of the higher audience age for these two themes. They also have higher start-up costs (whereas with, say, Castle, you can build something different with only a few sets; there's no united colour scheme in technic, so it's harder to get somewhere quickly) and are speciality subjects (Technic is difficult for a first-timer, Trains are complicated).

For reference, Bruce Heitbrink's essay on "Is Lugnet dying?"

[Captain Zuloo]

I doubt it.

There's a lot of great sites out there dedicated to a single theme or just a few.

Eurobricks is an all-round site and I don't think we're even close to competing with site fully dedicated to Trains, Technic or Bionicle for example.

I agree there, but I meant we have the monopoly on theme forums in an all-theme forum.

[Davey]

I think Lugnet still has more active Technic and Train subforums because of the higher audience age for these two themes. They also have higher start-up costs (whereas with, say, Castle, you can build something different with only a few sets; there's no united colour scheme in technic, so it's harder to get somewhere quickly) and are speciality subjects (Technic is difficult for a first-timer, Trains are complicated).

For reference, Bruce Heitbrink's essay on "Is Lugnet dying?"

Thanks for the link to Bruce's blog post on LUGNET, SlyOwl. It sounds like many on here are thinking similar thoughts when it comes to LUGNET. As the summary points, I think we are all in agreement that...

1) The LUGNET interface is outdated and cumbersome compared to other forums.

2) The cost factor on LUGNET for basic login functionality may be driving some away.

3) Public spats and flame wars on LUGNET have contributed to people leaving that community.

4) There is a wealth of information on LUGNET that should be preserved.

5) Development of 'theme specific' sites coupled with the above points may have lured people away from LUGNET.

6) The LEGO community is expanding at a nuclear pace.

So, based on these summary points...where do we go from here? I personally do not want to see LUGNET go away, mainly for the selfish reason that I have my whole collection inventoried there using their set inventory. In addition, the FAQ's and a lot of the old information on LEGO is quite useful to newbies who are willing to search it. I'll pose the question...is there a way to absorb LUGNET into another site? Could we take the information on LUGNET and create a Wiki of some sort that is part of EB or another fan site? Is it time to resurrect LEGOfan.com and absorb all of the LUGNET information into that? Are there other ideas? I think it all comes down to what Gerry wants to do with LUGNET. I think the attitude right now from him is to keep it running smoothly, but with no real changes. I may be wrong on this.

I agree that this is a topic that has been on the minds of AFoL's for awhile now. It was discussed at the evening pre-Brickworld parties last year. It was discussed in the Train Roundtable. It was discussed at dinners, in line for the LEGO in-store event, and during the public expo. It's be hashed and re-hashed over e-mail and by phone for a long time. So far...I have heard a lot of fantastic ideas...but nobody has really been able to agree on a direction. Perhaps the sticking point is that LUGNET is a privately run site and it is up to the owners what they want to do. We could certainly approach them as a group if the community can agree on a direction. I think the community could drive the direction of LUGNET. We've certainly been able to influence its 'slow burn' by not showing up.

Well, I've rambled enough. Let the discussion continue...

-Dave

ToT-LUG

[CP5670]

Is there a danger of Lugnet being shut down? The community has gradually left the place but I was under the impression that the site itself will remain up more or less indefinitely. As you say, it would be a major loss to the community if all the existing posts there disappeared.

[Eilif]

Is there a danger of Lugnet being shut down?

I don't think there is any danger right now. However I think there is some concern that if lugnet participation continues to wane, then in the future Lugnet could be in danger. The big worry is that like some of the recent Brickshelf scares, there would be a crash or some difficulty and the resources would not be in place to recover the information. "Indefinite" is only as long as the next crash.

Slyowl,

Thanks for that post. It's interesting that it dates to '06, and the situation hasn't changed since then.

Dave,

You're right about "not showing up" being a main influence on Lugnet. However, I don't think that anyone actually believes that Lugnet in it's present state is going to stage comeback. At this point it seems that the big question is "Whats next?"

Is the answer...

-A redesigned/reorganized lugnet?

-Lugnet being absorbed by a larger entity?

-A partnership with Lugnet and some other entity?

[Davey]

I don't think there is any danger right now. However I think there is some concern that if lugnet participation continues to wane, then in the future Lugnet could be in danger. The big worry is that like some of the recent Brickshelf scares, there would be a crash or some difficulty and the resources would not be in place to recover the information. "Indefinite" is only as long as the next crash.

Sorry if I misled anyone to think there was a danger of LUGNET shuutting down. That is most certainly not the case. However, it costs money to run a website and to use server space. With minimal (or no) new memberships, I could see the owners looking at the cost versus use and deciding to get out. Gerry is a heck of a guy and has really done a great job keeping the site up. However, at some point if new memberships and/or advertising aren't helping to offset costs...then I can see him shutting it down (and I really wouldn't blame him).

You're right about "not showing up" being a main influence on Lugnet. However, I don't think that anyone actually believes that Lugnet in it's present state is going to stage comeback. At this point it seems that the big question is "Whats next?"

Agreed...I don't think LUGNET is the current state is going to rise like a phoenix from the ashes and become an AFOL superpower.

Is the answer...

-A redesigned/reorganized lugnet?

-Lugnet being absorbed by a larger entity?

-A partnership with Lugnet and some other entity?

The short answer is...Yes.

To elaborate...I think all three of these ideas are potential options. And frankly...probably good ones...especially the last two. I'd actually love to see Brickshelf, LUGNET, and some (yet to be named) other entity merge. With a little reconstructive surgery, a site like that could emerge as a real force in the AFOL world. Especially if the site contains an archive of some sort containing old information from LUGNET. Possibly a Wiki or something like that which is user editable and can be easily searched?

As with everything internet or community related...it takes a leader/champion to make it happen. I don't have the web-technical knowledge to put something like that together. But I can assist with adding content, writing articles, and coming up with ideas if someone is tech-savy enough to want to take that portion on. I'd love to lead an effort to try and bring the community together more...but I'd certainly need lots of help.

-Dave

ToT-LUG

[Capt. Kirk]

My advice and opinion to and about Eurobricks is simple... don't try to be the big boy in the Lego community and always stay with both feets on the ground. If we continue like we currently doing we will be a big player automaticly... but it never may be the goal because high trees catch much wind. With other words... members and Lego community first.

[KimT]

My advice and opinion to and about Eurobricks is simple... don't try to be the big boy in the Lego community and always stay with both feets on the ground. If we continue like we currently doing we will be a big player automaticly... but it never may be the goal because high trees catch much wind. With other words... members and Lego community first.

Did you hack the boards?

This is exactly what we (the staff) have decided to work for.

[Capt. Kirk]

Did you hack the boards?

--> Yes... lol

This is exactly what we (the staff) have decided to work for.

--> Rome, is the people... that's the base of succes in everything.

[prateek]

I think this is the "Meta-Forum" for general Lego discusiion. But it wasn't always that way. When I first joined there were less than 500 users

[Reaper052]

Several years ago I discovered the Afol community through Bzpower.com, back when I only collected bionicle. But when I moved on to system Lego I found Eurobricks. For many years I lurked and watched Eurobricks become what it is now. I always liked the way Eurobricks brought fans of differant themes together in one place so that Spacers can build Castle, and Train fans can post spaceships, without having to join dozens of differant forums. Plus alot of members of other communities have begun to join Eurobricks. Its just conveniant and thats why I finally decided to join.

[Col. Brik]

As a AFOL, with kids who are FOL, I can say my reasons for EB being my first, and major place, for LEGO content and use is because of the either or community it can be.

My kids can sit and follow along with me as I browse, pictures and content is fun and light. Nothing is taken too seriously and you can easily see a personal touch in each members replies. Their signatures, writing style, content. It gives a personal touch to the place which keeps me coming back as a AFOL.

LEGO is my escape from everything else in the world and my chance to connect with my kids in a fun way. EB is a big reason I enjoy LEGO.

[-MZ-]

I've never been to LUGNET, but I know that it's the largest LEGO site out there. Considering what everyone has said, I don't think EB has quite surpassed LUGNET in terms of popularity, but, if I managed to stumble my way over here, many, many others will do the same in the future.

As long as the staff stays motivated and the community stays polite, I think the site will continue to grow.

[Eilif]

As a AFOL, with kids who are FOL, I can say my reasons for EB being my first, and major place, for LEGO content and use is because of the either or community it can be.

My kids can sit and follow along with me as I browse, pictures and content is fun and light. Nothing is taken too seriously and you can easily see a personal touch in each members replies. Their signatures, writing style, content. It gives a personal touch to the place which keeps me coming back as a AFOL.

LEGO is my escape from everything else in the world and my chance to connect with my kids in a fun way. EB is a big reason I enjoy LEGO.

Thanks for the observations Colonel. I don't think we've totally addressed the kid friendly nature of Eurobricks. Not that membership is open to all kids, but it is a site that is more kid friendly in terms of layout and feel. It's good to hear that along with that, we are still appealing to AFOL's

I've never been to LUGNET, but I know that it's the largest LEGO site out there. Considering what everyone has said, I don't think EB has quite surpassed LUGNET in terms of popularity, but, if I managed to stumble my way over here, many, many others will do the same in the future.

As long as the staff stays motivated and the community stays polite, I think the site will continue to grow.

I don't have the numbers for daily hits at LUGNET, and Eurobricks is probably not yet as influential in the wider AFOL community as LUGNET was at the height of it's popularity. However, in terms of daily posting activity, Eurobricks has far surpassed LUGNET in terms "popularity". Since you haven't been to

LUGNET, I suggest you head over there and take a look.

This thread is not intended to be a slam on LUGNET, but it was the numbers I refer to that prompted me to create this topic.

Eurobricks

[CP5670]

I don't have the numbers for daily hits at LUGNET, and Eurobricks is probably not yet as influential in the wider AFOL community as LUGNET was at the height of it's popularity. However, in terms of daily posting activity, Eurobricks has far surpassed LUGNET in terms "popularity". Since you haven't been to

LUGNET, I suggest you head over there and take a look.

That depends on which sections you used to visit at Lugnet. As discussed earlier in the thread, some forums here are a lot more populated than others. That being said, EB's activity has already increased noticeably in the month since this thread was posted. I see a lot more posts and several new people in the Technic section these days. It's not yet at the level of lugnet.technic and lugnet.robotics (as they were 10 years ago), but it will certainly get there soon.