Suggestions & Membership

[Shadows]

Looking back at my previous posts, i get the feeling that others feel that i am questioning the actions of the mods in the community forum cause that's were some feel i spend most of my time and that's why i come to EB. Well to clarify, that is not the case. I like most, come to this forum to find out about the latest in Lego news, MOCS and reviews of sets I'm interested in. I do, like most, consider the community section a "Bonus" as you will.

The response to this thread indicates that your views are not the same as the majority of the membership, and the fact that even the people who have threads closed rarely complain indicates that they understand the policies of EB as well. At this point, it seems that everything has been said, but I'll make this last reply to be abundantly clear.

A line has to be drawn and it will be. Some threads will fall on one side of that, some on the other. You may not agree with where the line is, or that it's fairly enforced, but it is, to the very best of our abilities. If anything, we are too lenient, which is, perhaps, part of the problem. In being lenient, we may have let some things continue that shouldn't have, which has given you a mistaken opinion of where that line is drawn. This thread could have led to stricter enforcement, just to maintain the so-called consistency you want so badly, but honestly, the membership is happy, we're happy, and what we've been doing is working in the vast majority of cases without the slightest complaint, so I see no change coming.

I guess what I'm trying to get at in short is to just give similar threads in the future a chance to grow. If its been talked about in the past with little to no depth, or is blatantly obvious that its inappropriate, then by all means close it. But i think its only fair to give it more of a chance than 4 or 5 posts.

Again, how long do you wait? A pointless thread is a pointless thread. You don't have to agree with my definition of what defines that, but past experience here weighs heavily in the decision, and as you can read back, the members widely agree.

Here is a prime example where we tried to let it go, hoping it would lead to something, and clearly it didn't. Should this still be open?

Not only that, but i feel you should be able to voice your opinions and concerns without being labeled as being disrespectful or rude.

The staff hasn't labeled you, and if a member feels that way, it's certainly within their rights, isn't it? You disagree with us, you express that. They disagree with you, they feel you're wrong, they express that. That's the hazard of a thread like this, you have to be able to take it as much as you dish it out.

In many forums, this would have simply been deleted. We've discussed it, explained it, provide ample opportunity for you and the community to respond, and if you read what has been said, it's clear where everyone stands.

Agreed. Although personally, while i appreciate the response and explanation, i don't feel just giving an explanation makes up for it being a lack luster one. Just my opinion.

Yes, it is your opinion, and mostly a lone one. In life, sometimes we have an opinion that differs from the rest, it's just the way it is. When you're dealing with something this subjective, you can't expect a perfect answer because one doesn't exist.

Ultimately, it's our responsibility to do what we think is right, and that tends to be influenced by what most of the membership thinks. Representing what the community wants is the best way to serve it. We can't cater specifically to everyone, anyone looking for that should start their own forum, make their own rules, and enjoy the freedom that provides, along with the resulting responsibility.

Bottom line, we're going to disagree sometimes and you may not think we're doing a good job. You have your opinion and have been given plenty of opportunity to express it. Feel free to PM me any time if you wish to discuss it further, but at this point, we're just going in circles here.

[5150 Lego]

The response to this thread indicates that your views are not the same as the majority of the membership, and the fact that even the people who have threads closed rarely complain indicates that they understand the policies of EB as well.

So what if there not the same? Its not that i don't understand, its that i felt there was a potential problem and didn't agree.

Again, how long do you wait? A pointless thread is a pointless thread. You don't have to agree with my definition of what defines that, but past experience here weighs heavily in the decision, and as you can read back, the members widely agree.

Are you being serious right now?? You quoted my exact response but yet still ask "How long do you wait?" A Lot longer than a couple posts.

The staff hasn't labeled you, and if a member feels that way, it's certainly within their rights, isn't it? You disagree with us, you express that. They disagree with you, they feel you're wrong, they express that. That's the hazard of a thread like this, you have to be able to take it as much as you dish it out.

As its within my rights to disagree with other members or the staff and there inconsistency and sometimes poor moderating duties. I don't care whether or not others agree, or don't agree with me. I don't base my decisions or thoughts on what the majority think agree with, nor as a said "kiss megablocks" to score points with the staff. If i see something i don't like and i feel its a real problem then i will bring it up. Whether or not i feel I'll have others support.

Yes, it is your opinion, and mostly a lone one.

And whats your point of constantly bring this up? An immature attempt to shove your way in my face? Again, i don't care if others agree or disagree. Its Obvious that at this point you will do nothing and continue to close threads that don't personal interest you. I get it.

Bottom line, we're going to disagree sometimes and you may not think we're doing a good job. You have your opinion and have been given plenty of opportunity to express it. Feel free to PM me any time if you wish to discuss it further, but at this point, we're just going in circles here.

Well, it looks like we can agree on one thing.

[Buttons]

Eurobricks Staff, will never lock a topic without giving an appropriate reason to support its decision.

I have noticed that the above statement is very true, however does the term "Eurobricks Staff" cover Fellows aswell? As personally I have not noticed the consistant levels of Moderation by Fellows that I see every day by Staff.

[KimT]

Fellows are entrusted with the ability to moderate the Community.

[Stauder]

Fellows are also counted as staff as far as I know, but their influence is limited to the Community forum.

Personally I see no problem with the way things are handled so far.

Stauder.

Edited June 12, 2009 by Stauder

[Eilif]

As its within my rights to disagree with other members or the staff and there inconsistency and sometimes poor moderating duties. I don't care whether or not others agree, or don't agree with me. I don't base my decisions or thoughts on what the majority think agree with, nor as a said "kiss megablocks" to score points with the staff. If i see something i don't like and i feel its a real problem then i will bring it up. Whether or not i feel I'll have others support...

And whats your point of constantly bring this up? An immature attempt to shove your way in my face? Again, i don't care if others agree or disagree. Its Obvious that at this point you will do nothing and continue to close threads that don't personal interest you. I get it.

And here's where the tone of the thread changes. It's a really old story. May I elaborate?

Steps of "complaint" topics:

1) Individual has beef with something about a forum

2) Individual posts a topic about complaint

3) Forum leaders acknowledge indivudal, but decide/state that the forum is fine the way it is

4) Individual restates original point with more vehemence.

5) Forum leaders repeat original statement along with suggestion that thread is repeating it'self (which it is)

6) Individual repeats complaints, makes statement of their indpendence in thought and speech, insinuates that they are being persecuted and make subtle insults at staff.

7) If thread continues this way, Forum Leaders lock thread and chastise individual.

We're now in step 6. (see bolded portions of quoted text) I'm sure this comes across as presumptuous, and I hope I'm proven wrong, but these things have a certain pattern to them.

Edited June 12, 2009 by Eilif

[Stauder]

*Post Deleted, I decided not to get involved*

Stauder.

Edited June 12, 2009 by Stauder

[KimT]

We're now in step 6. (see bolded portions of quoted text) I'm sure this comes across as presumptuous, and I hope I'm proven wrong, but these things have a certain pattern to them.

I like your setup.

You may be right, though I can't think of any staff members who've felt that they've been offended so far.

Can I say that this is "Going in circles"?

[Clone OPatra]

5150 Lego, there is really no point to continue this argument. I think Eilif's list is a true and just one, and no one wants his step number seven to come.

One of your major points has been: "You have the right to voice your complaint, and disagree or be unhappy with the job some moderators are doing." You have succeeded at this, your complaint has been voiced, and you have (at times very strongly) disagreed and been unhappy with the job some moderators are doing.

Then, in post number 13 of this topic, you said: "I'm not saying, nor do i expect any kind of "change in site policy'" You said it yourself, then why do you continue to argue? You voiced your concern over and over and over, and the staff members left you the reply, as did other non-staff, that they think the staff is doing a fine job, and does not need to change policy (just like you said they wouldn't).

So, your counter has been: "I don't care whether or not others agree, or don't agree with me." and "If i see something i don't like and i feel its a real problem then i will bring it up. Whether or not i feel I'll have others support."

Well, that's great, but don't you think that you have brought up the same argument at least ten times? You obviously don't have others support, and that hasn't stopped you from saying the same thing over and over, but you've gone three pages and gotten nowhere, absolutely nowhere. You can say that you don't care about getting nowhere, but nobody cares to hear it! And that's not because you are disliked or hated in some weird way, it's just that everyone is getting a little ticked off that you have nothing more to say but continue anyway.

The argument is over, and I'm sure if you continue it this thread will be locked and Eilif's number 7 will come true.

-O'Patra

[5150 Lego]

And here's where the tone of the thread changes. It's a really old story. May I elaborate?

Steps of "complaint" topics:

1) Individual has beef with something about a forum

2) Individual posts a topic about complaint

3) Forum leaders acknowledge indivudal, but decide/state that the forum is fine the way it is

4) Individual restates original point with more vehemence.

5) Forum leaders repeat original statement along with suggestion that thread is repeating it'self (which it is)

6) Individual repeats complaints, makes statement of their indpendence in thought and speech, insinuates that they are being persecuted and make subtle insults at staff.

7) If thread continues this way, Forum Leaders lock thread and chastise individual.

We're now in step 6. (see bolded portions of quoted text) I'm sure this comes across as presumptuous, and I hope I'm proven wrong, but these things have a certain pattern to them.

5150 Lego, there is really no point to continue this argument. I think Eilif's list is a true and just one, and no one wants his step number seven to come.

One of your major points has been: "You have the right to voice your complaint, and disagree or be unhappy with the job some moderators are doing." You have succeeded at this, your complaint has been voiced, and you have (at times very strongly) disagreed and been unhappy with the job some moderators are doing.

Then, in post number 13 of this topic, you said: "I'm not saying, nor do i expect any kind of "change in site policy'" You said it yourself, then why do you continue to argue? You voiced your concern over and over and over, and the staff members left you the reply, as did other non-staff, that they think the staff is doing a fine job, and does not need to change policy (just like you said they wouldn't).

So, your counter has been: "I don't care whether or not others agree, or don't agree with me." and "If i see something i don't like and i feel its a real problem then i will bring it up. Whether or not i feel I'll have others support."

Well, that's great, but don't you think that you have brought up the same argument at least ten times? You obviously don't have others support, and that hasn't stopped you from saying the same thing over and over, but you've gone three pages and gotten nowhere, absolutely nowhere. You can say that you don't care about getting nowhere, but nobody cares to hear it! And that's not because you are disliked or hated in some weird way, it's just that everyone is getting a little ticked off that you have nothing more to say but continue anyway.

The argument is over, and I'm sure if you continue it this thread will be locked and Eilif's number 7 will come true.

-O'Patra

I must say i find it funny that you both say that this is pointless and there's nothing more to add, but yet you continue to add to the discussion and expect no response in the matter.

Your right. It is point less cause at this point its like talking to a brick wall.

I'm done.

[imperial scout trooper]

I have to agree with the staff regarding this.I mean,this site is according to the guidelines a website about lego.Frankly,I don't really care about what kind of cellphone a person has.Who cares,really!In my opinion,the EB staff is fair enough,I guess.They have to step at times but if they didn't do that,the website would be in a mess.So 5150 Lego,I'm afraid that I can't agree to your opinion on this topic. I also think that your argument is pointless as well. EB is a lego website and off topic discussions are,if I am correct,privileges.I also think you are to critical about the moderation system.Note,I am not mini modding.my apologies to CGH for using too many smilies in my post.

Edited June 13, 2009 by imperial scout trooper

[Captain Green Hair]

I have to agree with the staff regarding this.I mean,this site is according to the guidelines a website about lego.Frankly,I don't really care about what kind of cellphone a person has.Who cares,really!In my opinion,the EB staff is fair enough,I guess.They have to step at times but if they didn't do that,the website would be in a mess.So 5150 Lego,I'm afraid that I can't agree to your opinion on this topic. I also think that your argument is pointless as well.

Please do not use so many smilies in one post. And criticism is ok, but make it constructive and explain why you do not agree to someone's opinion before shooting at them and using the angry face smilie.

[Natman8000]

Sigh. This is silly. All the mods are trusted as Fellows to do what they think is right. You should respect that, and nothing more, nor less. What a fellow does with their Mod ability is their business. I think we should all leave that alone.

[L-space]

This is the one exception to my rule: "If you don't think it's worth a reply: don't"

[Lord Admiral]

One particular solution that I've seen to the problem of drawing the line is to have a garbage or junk forum, where all the seriously wacky posts go to die. Depending on the technical limitations of the forum software, the garbage forum could be configured so that anything that ends up there either doesn't affect post counts (if that's really that important), or gets pruned after some time and the post count goes down as a result.

The real spam threads (selling replica watches or something) would be outright deleted. Threads that end up in flame wars end up closed and/or moved to the garbage forum.

But then you'll end up with people complaining about why their post was moved to the garbage forum, so maybe it's not such a great idea.

[Commodore Hornbricker]

This is the one exception to my rule: "If you don't think it's worth a reply: don't"

I wanted to break this rule too by saying, "my cat can eat a whole watermelon".

[Natman8000]

I wanted to break this rule too by saying, "my cat can eat a whole watermelon".

Yes, but can it moderate a site?

[Commodore Hornbricker]

I am going to have to get back to you on that.....breath Whiskers.....

[prateek]

This is the one exception to my rule: "If you don't think it's worth a reply: don't"

i agree

[Eilif]

I wanted to break this rule too by saying, "my cat can eat a whole watermelon".

Yes, but can it moderate a site?

My cat can moderate a site, but she has a heck of a time typing, and a real attitude problem.

I guess I leave EB moderation to the current team...

[SeaKing61]

Personally I like inconsistent moderation. Where's the fun in seeing a thread and knowing it'll get locked? I love the excitement of not knowing. Seeing a fresh topic on the community board should give us all a rush; is it worth taking some time to reply or will it be locked before we've even worked out what the original post means? Perhaps we should start a gambling sub-forum within Community so people can place massive wagers on which threads will stay open. Personally, I'm placing 400 brown tiles on 'pirate jokes' to be locked within the next week because the pirate wench jokes get a bit too dirty. Any takers?

Laurie

[brickbuster44]

Hello.

I would like to comment on the following posted by the EB team. (Administration did not allow for comments on the orginal post)

===================================

A word from the Staff about posting

Recently, we've noticed a rash of odd posting habits that detract from the overall EuroBricks experience, so I'd like to take this moment to remind some of you of the basic posting standards that we look for.

Sentences begin with a capital letter and end with some form of punctuation.

Sentences are seperated by a space, or placed on seperate lines when starting a new paragraph.

Making lots of short posts may increase your post count, but they also increase your chances of being asked to leave the site. If you have something meaningful to add to a conversation, it will probably consist of more than one sentence. And those sentences will be seperated by a space. Or a line.

It isn't always necessary to start a new thread. Go to the appropriate subforum or theme and look around. You will probably find that there is already a thread about your topic, or one very close that you could add your comment to. Each theme forum includes a thread discussing the new sets for the year, so if you want to comment on one of them, that's the place for it.

Finally, we want you to have fun, we sincerely do. We appreciate a good joke and make plenty of them ourselves, but if that is all you are posting, or you find yourself mostly participating in non-LEGO topics, you might want to reconsider your choice of forum, since in the end, we are a LEGO site, and it is LEGO that we are here to discuss.

Keep these things in mind and remember that as an AFOL site, we look for a certain level of maturity, and you'll do great.

Thank you for your consideration.

~ The EuroBricks Staff

=============================================

Today I read this post on the EB site.

Unfortunately this confirms, my pre convceived notions of hobbyists.

From what is stated, it is obvious that the administration, want to keep a control, and are very "selective" about who and what is posted, if it is not to their liking, not just in terms of only Lego.

This yet another example, case in point, that proves that hobbyists, take what is a fun hobby, and "ruin" it for people that may want to being it, or for others just curious. I received very rude comments about posting "a thank you" , off all things, to replys to a new member post. This certainly demonstrates a control factor.

In hobbys, (model trains, cars, and collecting) I've all too many times, seen adults take a fun toy, or other, and make into a cut throat, personal, affliction, one which ruins the very essence of the fun and innocent nature of the hobby. Its not just the boards, but in stores, all over the world. Adults take, grab all the new stuff, leaving little to nothing for people, who are interested in a set, or product.

Certain Lego stores have been giving preference to "collectors" or hobbyist builders which is unfair.

EB has certainly exceeded its, decorum in this area as opposed to other message boards.

In addition to hobbies, message boards, as seen in EB, and other, have brought about, as I have seen in many different boards (topics) ill faded rumors, fights amongst members, and banishment of those who are NEW to the boards, any may not understand the personal rules of the creator of such board.

For me my only source is "official" news, in regards to Lego, releases of product, and other, and to save the drama, and the downward spiral, of cut throat hobbyists I do not enjoin the tactics used by the mods in the boards.

In closing, what was a hobby, fun and cool, has been turned into, a nightmarish vice of adults who failed to recognize the original intent of said hobby. Simply do not create or continue a board, unless you (administration) can be welcoming and lenient with first time posters, and persons that are new to the hobby. By imposing strict rules, harsh responses, and actions, will not only deplete your board numbers, but also turn persons off to the hobby of which the very board is about.

thank you

brickbuster44

[Siegfried]

Ooooh! You're gonna be in trouble when a moderater sees this! Until then, welcome to EB!

[Shadows]

You seem awfully serious for someone who wants everyone to take a relaxed, hobbyist attitude. Of course, you don't realise how much of a disaster that is for a forum once it's overrun by people who can't form a proper sentence or spam every discussion with 3 word nonsense trying to raise their post counts.

So tell me, Jeff, why did you need to register a second account for this? Shall we discuss it privately, or right here?

[Spyder]

I actually disagree with you. I see what you are getting at, but you don't have enough to really back up your point. Stay a little longer, and get to know everyone here. At Eurobricks, we have lots of fun and jokes, in fact probably more than most other forums out there. The admins are really nice, and fair. I believe that they do their job well, and have fun with it at the same time. The rules are not un fair and strict, they are necessary. When you register, it tells you the rules, and some new members have chosen not to follow those rules, and there are consequences. So sit back, enjoy yourrself, build some Lego, and make some friends here. If you don't think it's fun here, then don't be here. And we do welcome are first-timers. So welcome to Eurobricks, you can introduce yourself here if you'd like.

Edited July 3, 2009 by Spyder