Possible worldwide ban on the sale of lego on ebay?

[Duck]

Hey folks.

I am NOT sure if this applies to LEGO, but i recieved this mass-email from ebay today:

eBay was built on a simple idea - that we could empower people by building a global trading platform where practically anyone could buy or sell practically anything. But that idea is now under threat from certain brand owners and manufacturers who are trying to turn back the clock and block the sale of their products on online marketplaces and other websites across the EU.

Ultimately, what is at stake is the right of sellers to compete

fairly in the wider online marketplace, and the right of buyers

to be able to access the best possible deals from the widest

possible selection of goods.

Some of these brand owners argue that their objective is to prevent the sale of counterfeits on eBay.

But thanks to our work with 31,000 other rights owners, only 0.15% of listings last year were detected or

reported as potentially counterfeit. The real aim of these brands is to block the sale of all their products on our site - regardless of whether such items are new or second-hand, genuine or fake. It's not just luxury items that are affected, but also everyday items like children's toys, electronic equipment, lawnmowers and pushchairs. And if we want to prevent other brand owners from following suit, we need to act now.

We are therefore calling on European policymakers to amend EU competition law to stop these unfair

trade practices. But we need your help to persuade them to take action. If you would like to join our

campaign against online trade barriers, please sign our petition.

Regards,

Your eBay Team

Now, as i say, i'm not sure whether this will include lego or not, but i would imagine that if this "block" did go through, then even more companies would follow suit and block their items from appearing on online marketplaces.

If Lego was indeed banned from online marketplaces, this would be detrimental to... pretty much every community that centres around Lego, as finding almost any brick that isnt in a current set would prove very difficult, as i'd imagine that this could well include sites like bricklink also, if the TLC is involved in this.

Again, the only knowledge i have on this is from the email i recieved, and so hopefully someone will be more knowledable than me on the subject and maybe know if lego is at threat from this?

Fingers crossed, they are not, and also that this whole "Block" does not happen at-all.

Discuss.

Edited July 7, 2009 by Duck

[Siegfried]

Looks like spam to me. Don't reply to it or go to the site.

I've heard nothing about any block...

[Shadows]

Looks like spam to me. Don't reply to it or go to the site.

Yeah, that doesn't read like eBay at all and it sounds like a load of bull.

[Whittleberry]

It would make sense for LEGO not to want cheaply-bought US sets being shipped to EU countries where the price of LEGO is higher, however I think it's HIGHLY unlikely that they'd shut down Bricklink. Kjeld Kirk Kristiansen was just at Brickworld looking at all the models that people had been able to make as a result of Bricklink, and he wouldn't want to put a stop to that.

[Duck]

The email originated from ebay as it came from the usual email address and included all the usual features to show that it was not a fake (including your registered ebay name at the top). Again, i want to stress that lego being included in this is purely speculation but felt that it was a just cause for discussion of the possible repocussions of this

Here is a screenshot of the message sent (With my email and name edited out, obviously). Also to note it came from Ebay.co.uk which might be why others have not recieved it. The link was also to genuine Ebay.

image removed

Also, from re-reading, i can see that "Worldwide" in the title might have been a little dramatic, and EU would have been better!

Edited July 7, 2009 by ImperialShadows
Visible email address.

[Siegfried]

The email originated from ebay as it came from the usual email address and included all the usual features to show that it was not a fake (including your registered ebay name at the top). Again, i want to stress that lego being included in this is purely speculation but felt that it was a just cause for discussion of the possible repocussions of this

It's very easy to fake the source EMail address. I could send you a letter from obama@whitehouse.gov without much bother. But your username is harder to fake so you could be right.

[Shadows]

Here is a screenshot of the message sent (With my email and name edited out, obviously). Also to note it came from Ebay.co.uk which might be why others have not recieved it. The link was also to genuine Ebay.

image removed

Also, from re-reading, i can see that "Worldwide" in the title might have been a little dramatic, and EU would have been better!

Sounds silly, it really does. If anyone should know that online petitions don't work, it's a company that thousands of sellers have started online petitions about.

I took the image out of your post, it still has your email address visible in it, just not where you think.

[Duck]

I could send you a letter from obama@whitehouse.gov without much bother.

Do you mean to say that the emails i've been recieving off Gordon Brown arent real either? And there i was thinking i was going up in the world!

I took the image out of your post, it still has your email address visible in it, just not where you think.

Oops! Silly me! I do agree that the whole thing sounds very odd.

Indeed online petitions are usually not the way forward - i suppose that if this is genuine, Ebay could be becoming desperate as they'd be losing alot of income over this - but then again they still would have the non-EU ebay sites where people could sell what they like, which most of europe would probably resort to importing goods from.

How odd.

Here is the image again, with (hopefully) all traces of email address edited out!

[Tom Bricks]

Check your messages on ebay and if it's not there its probably not legit. It's not in my messages but that may be because I'm in the US.

[The Cobra]

It's on Google news, so I think the whole thing is very real.

Yet, Imperial Shadows is right imho. Will an online petition solve anything?

[CP5670]

I would be very surprised if a manufacturer actually has any authority to block sales, in any country. Once you buy a product, you own it and you are free to resell it if you want. There is plenty of legal precedent for this, and TLG couldn't shut down ebay and Bricklink sales even if they wanted to (which itself is unlikely in the extreme, as they generate business for TLG).

I have not gotten any such email, so it seems to be something limited to Europe. I still have big doubts over whether the thing is genuine though. I have received spoof ebay emails including my username many times in the past. Check the petition link and see if it takes you to a site under the ebay domain.

Edited July 7, 2009 by CP5670

[GIR 3691]

Doesn't sound like LEGO is one of the retailers mentioned, and it's impossible to tell from the above e-mail. Seems unlikely that they would push for this. This sounds more like companies that make high-priced electronics and such.

[MaxGoof]

Whoever proposed this act is a fool. There is no legal way to prevent people from reselling their possessions that they have legally purchased.

[prateek]

Aww man, that means no more fake Sennheisser earphones and iPods. I couldn't care less for Lego though because there are so many other places to get Lego (retail stores, bricklink.com, etc...)

[Peppermint_M]

Ok, so I have it too (I ignore non-sales related eBay w-mails most of the time)

I doubt that Lego will block online sales, it just isn't something they'd do. Plus they'd then have to stop all re-sale at car boot sales and the like to really have leg to stand on. I guess it is more likely to be the big grumpy brands like Apple Mackintosh iTrash and other overpriced yuppie rubbish that makes a big deal about that kind of thing.

[Luke McAwesome]

I'll believe it when I see it.

This is crazy, LEGO can't possibly do this.

And I quote:

There is no legal way to prevent people from reselling their possessions that they have legally purchased.

[mikey]

I have bought and sold Lego on eBay.co.uk recently and I have not had this mail. I do not think it would be possible that this could be enforced, if this is a real mail, then it will spell the end for eBay, because where does it end?

It is not realistic, beacause as already pointed out, when we buy something we are entitled to dispose of the asset in any way we see fit. That could include selling it/ giving it away / keeping it. That is my understanding of British Law, and I presume that it is applicable for most European countries.

The literate style of the original quote does not seem in keeping with the way the eBay communicates with its members, and legislation of this nature on a European scale would be 'common news', as it would not just effect eBay, but also many small and independent retailers.

[Brickthing]

It is not realistic, beacause as already pointed out, when we buy something we are entitled to dispose of the asset in any way we see fit. That could include selling it/ giving it away / keeping it. That is my understanding of British Law, and I presume that it is applicable for most European countries.

Isn't the fact that it's currently legal to resell the reason manufacturers are trying to pass the act to change that?

I haven't seen anything about it in the news, and if not everyone is getting it, it sounds very fake. Why would Ebay only send a petition to some of it's customers.

And for the username thing, somebody probably found that out along with your email, allowing them to send an authentic-looking fake email to you.

[puddleglum]

I'm not sure why everyone is so set on this being fake. A quick search in google news turns up a number of websites reporting this:

http://news.google.com/news/more?um=1&...M35oPqwQ6WOGMaM

The whole reason it's an issue is that company after company have been suing eBay to try to block them from selling their products on eBay, since the risk of fraud to consumers is too high. L'Oreal, has, for example, sued eBay in the US, UK, France, and Belgium to try to stop ALL L'Oreal products from being sold on eBay. It sounds ridciulous to us to throw out the baby with the bathwater, but that's what companies are arguing for. So far they have not been sucessful, but I don't think everyone should dismiss it as a "that could never happen" kind of thing.

[Peppermint_M]

When the BBC reports it I will agree that it is a legitimate e-mail.

Until such a time I don't know.

[puddleglum]

http://www2.ebay.com/aw/uk/200907.shtml#2009-07-06115357

Wow whoever sent that scam email also hacked ebay's website and put up a message about it there too!

[Peppermint_M]

Still doesn't mean that TLG is one of these brands.

I somehow doubt they'd be fussed about people buying and selling sets and parts. The fakes argument is over, not one set that isn't lego is tagged as Lego. It'll say "lego like" or "Compatible with major brands". It's dead hard to get fakes and most Clone Brands too.

[Karto]

I would be very surprised if a manufacturer actually has any authority to block sales, in any country. Once you buy a product, you own it and you are free to resell it if you want. There is plenty of legal precedent for this, and TLG couldn't shut down ebay and Bricklink sales even if they wanted to (which itself is unlikely in the extreme, as they generate business for TLG).

There's, indeed, no legal way at all to do something like that in Europe. The last couple of years, the European Union has even enforced the customer's rights regarding the resell of used goods.

A few examples:

- A company cannot cancel any warranty when someone sells a 'used' product. In other words: if you buy an Ipod on eBay which has 18 months, Apple MUST accept the 6 remaining months of warranty (note: any electronic device must have a warranty of atleast 2 years, this includes LEGO Mindstorms and Trains).

- Any person can sell used products as long as it is not meant for profit (buy and resell). In this case, you have several additional rights like not to have to accept returns of goods (see eBay.de where a lot of people mention this law article in their auctions) and no warranty.

etc.

Bricklink, that's another story. European law (= created on EU level and acknowledged on National level by its members) says that you may resell used goods as long as it is not meant for profit and not on a regular base. It can seem quite vague, but it's up to a court to decide whether a commercial act applies or not. I think we can consider Bricklink shops as trading places, meant for profit and reselling on a regular base. Any reseller should then be, in theory, a registered trading company and pay taxes. In the worst case scenario, a court could request the information of all the members (of the related country) and control whether they are registered or not. Under no circumstances, TLC could require to 'shut down' the website.

Finally, I doubt TLC would do anything as they know that Bricklink and eBay are important for their adult customers. I'm quite sure that the adult community is considered as the backbone of the company. A lot of more complex products (CC, Ultimate SW, NXT, Factory, etc.) and several programs (Ambassadors, Factory Builders, Conventions, LUGs sponsoring, Collector's Guide, etc.) over the last years have proven this. Don't worry .

Note: I don't have had that email and I don't see anything about it on the forums of eBay.be.

Edit: Seems that this is related to ebay.co.uk. The guy got probably hit by the Stone of Scone...

Edited July 7, 2009 by Karto

[brickzone]

Storm in a teacup. This is real news in the sense of British tabloid newspaper fodder. Such restrictions will never occur (or more particularly will not be enforceable or homogenously applied across different states), but it is in ebay's interest to stir up a storm of controversy just to make sure they don't.

Incidentally I consider it unacceptable for ebay to spam their users in this fashion - the early posters were right in suggesting it didn't seem like a genuine email. Ebay shouldn't be sending out emails that have a tone such that they don't seem genuine.

Edited July 7, 2009 by brickzone

[Duck]

When i received the email it did immediately occur to me that the EU has alot of different laws governing freedom of trade and migration and whatnot, sometimes reaching rather silly levels (Like for example the English FA weren’t allowed to impose a rule that English Football Clubs must have atleast 6 English players - which seemed pretty logical in our own country considering the amount of foreigners- but this wasn’t allowed due to the freedom of migration between European citizens) so the chances of trade being restricted looked pretty slim.

So it seems we've diagnosed that this originated (and possibly only) from Ebay UK, and I’m guessing the reason why only a few of us received this email was because:

You were sent this e-mail because your Notification Preferences indicate that you want to receive information about Special Promotions, Offers and Events.

So anyone not signed up for that would not have received it. Though it cannot be ruled out that it’s just an impersonating spam, the email really does seem genuine - if a tad odd that they think a petition will solve this

In conclusion then, I’m glad that we've generally come to the conclusion that this could not happen anyway, and the likelihood of TLC being one of the provocateurs is extremely slim considering the creativity levels and the amount of adult fans.

Again, I just felt this was something worth mentioning for its possible repercussions on Lego Fans and something worth discussing by those "In the know" on these sorts of things

Edited July 7, 2009 by Duck