LUGBULK - New concept for the AFOL community

[Kanal-K1]

Nice idea, but rules are so tight, that in fact it is only for very big LUGs in big countries.... (I mean especially the rule about two displays per year).

I would also like to say few words to all those fears about "someone making from LUGBULK basis of his BL business" : I have also BL shop, and I am pretty sure, that LUGBULK could never be basis of anyones BL business. With max 100 different elements, two orders per year, and 3 months delayed delivery, no one really can make some huge deal on it.

Further on, I am quite sure, that TLG won´t become a maecenas making prices for LUGBULK extra low, voluntary loosing their profit on behalf of LUG members. I guess LUGBULK pricing will be bit below PaB.

Edited August 14, 2009 by Kanal-K1

[stuifzand]

I guess LUGBULK pricing will be bit below PaB.

I have asked Jan Beyer for the pricing. Unfortunately he cannot give a pricing list, but he gave the example of a 2x4 brick in white which would cost 6ct. PaB price is 17ct for that element.

I don't know if this sets the standard for the rest though...

[Kanal-K1]

I have asked Jan Beyer for the pricing. Unfortunately he cannot give a pricing list, but he gave the example of a 2x4 brick in white which would cost 6ct. PaB price is 17ct for that element.

I don't know if this sets the standard for the rest though...

Well....why more and more one adage comes to my mind : "The road to hell is tiled with good ideas"... I think I know, why....let´s have a bit of mathematic. Total average annual buying limit for one member is 400 DKK, what, counted with xe.com, is 53,74 Eur. Divided by that white brick 2x4 price, means, that with all those rules, conditions and frenzy administrative, one happy LUG member can take advantage of buying whole 895 bricks per year...

In fact, based on stated conditions, LUGBULK seems beeing just an another megablocks, even initiated by a good will....

I said A, so I have to say B : If TLG wants to help to builders, better to make "Fill a bag" actions, where we can buy randomly mixed parts for kilo price. AFAIK same option is in Legolands, and had been in the past in Tesco stores worldwide. Such method means very easy processing for TLG (just distribute requested weight of randomly mixed parts to LUGs), avoids BL reselling too (as only totally crazy people would try to sort kiloware to BL shops) and gives option to buy enough parts for reasonable price.

Edited August 14, 2009 by Kanal-K1

[stuifzand]

I said A, so I have to say B : If TLG wants to help to builders, better to make "Fill a bag" actions, where we can buy randomly mixed parts for kilo price. AFAIK same option is in Legolands, and had been in the past in Tesco stores worldwide. Such method means very easy processing for TLG (just distribute requested weight of randomly mixed parts to LUGs), avoids BL reselling too (as only totally crazy people would try to sort kiloware to BL shops) and gives option to buy enough parts for reasonable price.

I don't think people will buy "random parts".

Edited August 14, 2009 by stuifzand

[jof]

I don't think people will buy "random parts".

No they don't. We had something like this in a local toy shop about 5 years ago.

Fixed price for a bag. I got in fairly early & grabbed a load of 8*16 dark grey base plates & 6*10 yellow plates.

A week later, the box was full of all those 'right hand' only wing plates / compound curves (like on new A wing) and other obscure pieces.

Jof

[puddleglum]

Total average annual buying limit for one member is 400 DKK, what, counted with xe.com, is 53,74 Eur. Divided by that white brick 2x4 price, means, that with all those rules, conditions and frenzy administrative, one happy LUG member can take advantage of buying whole 895 bricks per year...

But if those 900 2x4 bricks are, say, dark tan, the LUG member will probably be quite happy indeed to have saved so much money, since they would have cost over US $1000 on BrickLink, if there even were 900 of them for sale. (An extreme example, I know) Also, as others have said, if you are in a LUG with 20 people, there's nothing to say that 10 of them won't want to participate, which means the other 10 would have the opportuinity to buy more parts.

Sure, there are a lot of rules and regulations, but keep in mind it's a pilot program. Hopefully it goes well and will be opened up a bit. As it is, LEGO is giving LUG members the opporunitiy to directly order bircks that would otherwise be prohibitively expensive to buy. I know everyone was hoping for LEGO to announce new program where you could just call the factory and they will make any brick you want in any color and sell them all for flat fee of $.01/brick with free shipping, but it looks like that's going to have to wait.

As for the "no resale" clause - reguardless of the legailty/enforcability issue, LEGO could simply can the program if they felt it was being used in a way that was bad for their business.

[CopMike]

Update from Jan B:

• 200 DKK is the amount per registered member - if 50 members submit their data then the LUG can order for 10.000 DKK max, but if only 20 out of the 50 order they can still order up to 10.000 DKK.
  
• The focus right now is to help people who are doing shows get bricks to build more and thus help them build new stuff for their shows.
  
• A 2x4 brick in white is 0,45 DKK without VAT.
  

[Peppermint_M]

Well, that's great. I am not a member of a LUG, I cannot join a LUG as none are near me...

Anyone fancy getting a big bag of dark brown and reddish brown bricks for me?

Sounds like a great idea for big LUGs with lots of displays and meetings.

[Freddie]

I think it's an even better idea for small LUGs than big ones, when people, collections and resources are spread thin, and even more so in Brikkelauget, where members are spread throughout Norway.

When the question was asked if we wanted to use the program, the answer was a uniform yes. While we don't do many events, we do participate/host in enough ones this year to qualify for LUGBULK, and will definately attempt to increase our activity to qualify for the program in the future.

Edited August 15, 2009 by Freddie

[Eilif]

This sure sounds like a crappy deal to me, and I'd never participate on it. Seriously, this isn't TLG trying to cater fans, this is them trying to get their share of the money that's in the resale market of their products. It's greed, not generosity.

Wow Sandy, this is pretty negative! This is not a program for everyone, it's a program for LUG's who need hard-to-find bricks in bulk for certain projects. I know that NILTC would be thrilled with this kind of opportunity if it were available in the USA>

But in the same vein, why are they not allowed to re-sell the bricks at a later date? They expect LUGs to keep the parts forever and ever?

I don't think they will be able to regulate the re-sell for ever, but this is going to be alot of work for some LEGO employees, and it seems completely fair to limit the resale of bricks for a while at least. I wouldn't be surprised at all if LUGs found to abuse the system are banned from future purchases.

EB actually fits all their requirements for a LUG except for the one about holding two display shows a year. I'm not sure even how many "physical" LUGs do that.

Alot of LUGs, especially Lego Train Clubs do more than two shows a year. If you are in a club, it's not hard to set up two weekend displays at public libraries in one year. If your club is interested in promoting the LEGO hobby outside the club, they are probably doing that many shows already.

Oh. Well that stinks. I really liked the idea to start with, but just too many things ruined it for me.

Wow, there are alot of whiners. LEGO is trying to do something new to service LUGs (not everyone, just LUGs) who do so much to promote the LEGO hobby. Sure it has alot of limits, but if fans participate rather than complain, who knows but that there might be an expansion of the program limits.

I also like the idea that if this program continues and expands it may encourage more folks to join LUGs, and more LUGs to be more active.

[blueandwhite]

Wow, there are alot of whiners. LEGO is trying to do something new to service LUGs (not everyone, just LUGs) who do so much to promote the LEGO hobby. Sure it has alot of limits, but if fans participate rather than complain, who knows but that there might be an expansion of the program limits.

I also like the idea that if this program continues and expands it may encourage more folks to join LUGs, and more LUGs to be more active.

I suspect that a lot of the frustration comes from the fact that many people find themselves excluded from this potentially amazing program. It's very much akin to LEGO outright stating that some fans are better than others. What many people are reluctant to admit is that the preceding statement is probably somewhat true. AFOLs who are active in LUGs do more for the LEGO community than most independent fans could ever hope to. Their works are viewed by the general public and bring a greater awareness of the hobby to the public. Just as the ambassadors are selected from some of the most active AFOLs, this program specifically targets groups that do the most to promote the hobby. Great MOCs posted on brickshelf or shown on these and other forums are generally not seen by non-fans. Public displays go a long way in making the hobby visible to the greater public.

For the record; I'm not active in any LUG yet I support this project wholeheartedly. As an AFOL, I appreciate that Lego User Groups have done a lot to make this hobby what it is today. If offering a two-tiered purchasing system (better brick selection and prices for LUGs) serves to promote the hobby then I'm all for a system like the one LEGO is offering. Here's hoping that the program delivers a wonderful set of MOCs from those LUGs that participate. Not every region has a great network of LUGs. This shouldn't deter LEGO from rewarding those communities that do.

[Peppermint_M]

Oh, I support this wholeheartedly, I just wish I could join a LUG and participate in displays, I'm a little stuck due to my location in relation to other LUGs...

[Ralph_S]

Oh, I support this wholeheartedly, I just wish I could join a LUG and participate in displays, I'm a little stuck due to my location in relation to other LUGs...

No LUG on the planet Zi? Seriously, I don't know where you are, but there may be a LUG somewhere near you.

Edit: I checked your profile. Have you considered joining Brickish?

Cheers,

Ralph

Edited August 15, 2009 by Ralph_S

[JopieK]

No LUG on the planet Zi? Seriously, I don't know where you are, but there may be a LUG somewhere near you.

Edit: I checked your profile. Have you considered joining Brickish?

Cheers,

Ralph

So EB is not a LUG? And why then are other LUGs like LowLUG etc. LUGs? I'm both BeLUG and 1000steine member, but don't know yet how they will work it out.

[SuvieD]

Sounds like an amazing program for the display builders and train clubs.

For myself I am looking to rely on the new assortments from PaB. I have no personal need for bulk and if the lug I belong to can use this program I hope they put my portion to good use in buildking and promoting the hobby.

[Eilif]

...AFOLs who are active in LUGs do more for the LEGO community than most independent fans could ever hope to. Their works are viewed by the general public and bring a greater awareness of the hobby to the public...

... this program specifically targets groups that do the most to promote the hobby. Great MOCs posted on brickshelf or shown on these and other forums are generally not seen by non-fans. Public displays go a long way in making the hobby visible to the greater public.

As an AFOL, I appreciate that Lego User Groups have done a lot to make this hobby what it is today....

...Not every region has a great network of LUGs. This shouldn't deter LEGO from rewarding those communities that do.

You said what I was trying to say much better than I. I don't think of it as some fans being better than others, but rather as LEGO rewarding groups who are out there actively promoting the hobby largely without the support of TLG.

It's true that not every region has a LUG, but if some folks want to start a LUG, and are willing to push through the slow years at the beginning, there's no reason that they can't start one on their own. The time and effort don't make it worth while, to start a LUG just to get the discount, but I think that's a good thing.

So EB is not a LUG? And why then are other LUGs like LowLUG etc. LUGs? I'm both BeLUG and 1000steine member, but don't know yet how they will work it out.

In the most basic sense, EB is a "Lego User Group" however, I was under the impression that it's generally accepted that a LUG has the following elements.

1) A geographic focus.

2) Meetings where the members gather in-person.

In this case, LEGO has added the element of public displays as a criteria also.

EB does not have in-person meetings or a geographic focus. Who knows though? Perhaps if EB were to put on some shows, maybe LEGO would extend some version of this to them.

[Ralph_S]

So EB is not a LUG? And why then are other LUGs like LowLUG etc. LUGs? I'm both BeLUG and 1000steine member, but don't know yet how they will work it out.

It's a LUG, but not one that actually does public displays at least twice a year.

Cheers,

Ralph

[Norro]

You said what I was trying to say much better than I. I don't think of it as some fans being better than others, but rather as LEGO rewarding groups who are out there actively promoting the hobby largely without the support of TLG.

It's true that not every region has a LUG, but if some folks want to start a LUG, and are willing to push through the slow years at the beginning, there's no reason that they can't start one on their own. The time and effort don't make it worth while, to start a LUG just to get the discount, but I think that's a good thing.

This is what I resent...

When the blend between hobby and business creates something worse than either could in their own right.

One question: is this program going to be profitable? If so, a business would provide it to everyone. Or is this a hobby service, in which case do we really need millions of rules? Best intent would, presumably, be fine.

I don't mind that a business would ignore the two years of labour it took me to start a LUG. I don't mind that it wouldn't notice the thousands of people I have personally reintroduced to its products. I wouldn't expect it to... But I do mind when an organization posing as a hobby lobby starts instituting elitism... Obviously I'm not worth the investment. Technicalities always indicate the true value of an individual . Taking a real life LUG in a country which previously hadn't had one from a membership of 0 to 13 is not as important as a checklist when it comes to dedication.

Hopefully, my MOCs will soon be ranked (sarcasm). Obviously I don't influence or inspire building as much as some (those in pick a brick echelon 1 presumably) but what about others...

Just to defend myself, I am the guy who rejoices when I see pick a bricks opening in other countries because I figure it will drive down the BL price of items. I love Lego, I love the exclusives, I jocularly complain about limited/regional availability but end up coping, what I dislike is the recent tendency of Lego to 'explain' why I don't need/am wrong/don't have TLC's best interest at heart... I don't, I'm a fan of the brick- not irrevocably married to the company. Which brings us back to asking is this a fan movement (by the way- "most of you aren't fans") or a company (which would treat us all equally- looking after their own interest first: so that we don't have to...)?

Cheers again Lego, I have some plans which could use some bulk bricks- but I guess I'll end up at Bricklink, oh wait that isn't what you wanted

Nathan

[CopMike]

Update 16/8 from Tormod on why this is not upon for the US:

Explanation from our Quality Department:

We are awaiting clarification on the testing and certification demands for elements that are not sold as part of a finished good. The complexity of the US Consumer Product Safety Improvement Act (CPSIA) has left many unanswered questions and until we are certain that we can meet the requirements of the law, we must withhold sales of loose elements, outside of the PAB assortment, in the US market. Be assured that the elements themselves are fully compliant and safe; we simply need to have clarity as to what process we must use to ensure the elements meet the test and certification demands.

Tormod

[CP5670]

Alot of LUGs, especially Lego Train Clubs do more than two shows a year. If you are in a club, it's not hard to set up two weekend displays at public libraries in one year. If your club is interested in promoting the LEGO hobby outside the club, they are probably doing that many shows already.

I wonder if participants of the major shows like Brickworld and Brickfair would qualify in that case, even though those are only once a year. I'm not part of any local LUG, but I do take my models to such events and promote the hobby in that way.

This is what I resent...

When the blend between hobby and business creates something worse than either could in their own right.

One question: is this program going to be profitable? If so, a business would provide it to everyone. Or is this a hobby service, in which case do we really need millions of rules? Best intent would, presumably, be fine.

I can kind of see where you're coming from. It's not clear what exactly the purpose of this service is, and as you said, Lego is ultimately no more than a fun hobby and should remain that way. Although in its current form, this service has too many and too strict rules to be of much use anyway.

Edited August 16, 2009 by CP5670

[Eilif]

When the blend between hobby and business creates something worse than either could in their own right.

One question: is this program going to be profitable? If so, a business would provide it to everyone. Or is this a hobby service, in which case do we really need millions of rules? Best intent would, presumably, be fine.

I don't mind that a business would ignore the two years of labour it took me to start a LUG. I don't mind that it wouldn't notice the thousands of people I have personally reintroduced to its products. I wouldn't expect it to... But I do mind when an organization posing as a hobby lobby starts instituting elitism... Obviously I'm not worth the investment. Technicalities always indicate the true value of an individual . Taking a real life LUG in a country which previously hadn't had one from a membership of 0 to 13 is not as important as a checklist when it comes to dedication.

I'm not sure I totally understand what you are getting at. What is this "something worse"?

As to whether it is a business or a hobby service, it might be either. However my guess is that it is neither. It seems to be more of a "reward" for LUGs who are spreading the hobby. I sincerely doubt LEGO will make much money off this, but I don't think that's the point, and if they can't make money off it, it would be silly to open it up to everyone. Rather, it seems that they are using this service as a very targeted encouragement to groups already serving them in the arena of public awareness.

My LUG, NILTC, doesn't qualify based on geography, but I'm very happy to see this (probalby "pilot") program being tried, What is it about your LUG that doesn't qualify for the service?

[Lord Admiral]

This sounds like a pretty good program, to allow LUGs to order in bulk. There are probably quite a few who can benefit from this. I'm thinking in addition to AFOLUG's, this would be perfect for Lego builders clubs in schools and such.

The only thing of note here is that LUGs of 10 (or of 10 willing participants) are kind of screwed by the rules. There's a minimum of 2,000DKK per order per LUG, and a maximum of 200DKK per person. For a group of exactly 10, that's not a lot of room to maneuver. Every participant pretty much has to order exactly 200DKK, or the order's not going to meet the minimum, but how often do you end up ordering an exact amount of anything?

[Brickthing]

This sounds like a pretty good program, to allow LUGs to order in bulk. There are probably quite a few who can benefit from this. I'm thinking in addition to AFOLUG's, this would be perfect for Lego builders clubs in schools and such.

The only thing of note here is that LUGs of 10 (or of 10 willing participants) are kind of screwed by the rules. There's a minimum of 2,000DKK per order per LUG, and a maximum of 200DKK per person. For a group of exactly 10, that's not a lot of room to maneuver. Every participant pretty much has to order exactly 200DKK, or the order's not going to meet the minimum, but how often do you end up ordering an exact amount of anything?

That problem could easily be fixed by having one more member to order, giving you a 2200DKK max and 200DKK leeway.

I like the idea of this program, but the way it's set up seems to me like LEGO is taking a lot of precautions to ensure that they still make money on it. It's like how LEGO often gives large amounts of pieces for specific show purposes, only in this version people get to choose and keep the parts that they need, hence the price seeing as there's no absolute guarantee that people will use the parts for a show.

Seeing as the idea of this program is to improve the public LEGO displays and promotion of the LEGO brand made by LUGs, I personally think it would have been better if LEGO had developed a reward system, where they give points to LUGs when they put on LEGO displays, based on the number of visitors viewing the displays, and the size/amount/quality of the displays. The points can then be used for buying bulk amounts of less common bricks. This method also prevents loss of money on LEGO's part, and it ensures that the parts bought are used to make future displays as good as possible, because it gets the LUGs even more free parts.

[Eilif]

The only thing of note here is that LUGs of 10 (or of 10 willing participants) are kind of screwed by the rules. There's a minimum of 2,000DKK per order per LUG, and a maximum of 200DKK per person. For a group of exactly 10, that's not a lot of room to maneuver. Every participant pretty much has to order exactly 200DKK, or the order's not going to meet the minimum, but how often do you end up ordering an exact amount of anything?

I'm quite sure that LEGO isn't going to freak out if an order ends up just below the minimum. However it shouldn't be hard to get close to the price guidelines since the rules state that the club submits a 150 part wishlist, and LEGO will returns with 100 parts (with prices) from that list based on availability.

Seeing as the idea of this program is to improve the public LEGO displays and promotion of the LEGO brand made by LUGs, I personally think it would have been better if LEGO had developed a reward system, where they give points to LUGs when they put on LEGO displays, based on the number of visitors viewing the displays, and the size/amount/quality of the displays.

It would be great to see a direct rewards system for LUG displays, though without a LEGO employee to visit every show, it would be extremely difficult to gauge the "size/amount/quality of the displays". A simple measure of number of shows, members displaying, and attendance might be a better system.

[puddleglum]

It would be great to see a direct rewards system for LUG displays, though without a LEGO employee to visit every show, it would be extremely difficult to gauge the "size/amount/quality of the displays". A simple measure of number of shows, members displaying, and attendance might be a better system.

They kind of already do this in the US, LEGO stores near conventions and shows often offer discounts to those who are displaying at the show.