Return of 9V?

[ConductorPete]

What I don't understand is that the RC tracks are a (sortof) new design (basically the 9V tracks with all the holes filled in ) so why not simply design the mould to have a replaceable 'head' ? It doesn't have to be removable, but it'd make the track easier to be made for 9V. That way, either a platic or metal top-piece can be simply 'glued' on. Unless Lego wanted to make the track like the 12V era...seperate plastic sleepers & metal rail....

P.S. If we were to make a new mould, surely we'd make it a bigger radius as a '2 fingers' to lego... (no insult intended, but lego hardly put the effort into the train line as years passed as they did with the city/town ranges...at least trains don't have to be pushed along...)

Wel what i think they should do is have train track suitable for all trains

[MightySlickPancake]

Hi

I was reading around and i half way down this article i saw that for once lego may be at the forefront of train design, the article said that some model train companies have put money into making radio controled trains but are only in the prototype stage. so i think lego are first in mass producing the rc train idea and if i am correct i doubt they will build 9v tracks.

cb

[Matt Dawson]

Yes, but radio (or infra-red) train control is very primitive - alright for lego (with only lights on/off and movement) but for proper model railways, with tens of locos (possibly hundreds), that's a lot of frequencies to use. Plus there's different lighting possibilities, sounds...

Besides which, you'd need a pretty big house (not to mention a large bank balance ) to get to that level of complexity. Let's put it another way; to power a 9V train, all you need is a motor. For PF, you need a battery box, reciever, motor...

And one more thing; 9V motors actually had the motor sideframe part in with the motor itself . Think of the poor kids adult's face when he realises he needs to bricklink or ebay for the sideframes...

Edited August 18, 2009 by Matt Dawson

[cusaeng]

why not simply design the mould to have a replaceable 'head' ? It doesn't have to be removable, but it'd make the track easier to be made for 9V. That way, either a platic or metal top-piece can be simply 'glued' on.

Again this would be down to cost. At the time rc track was being developed Tlg probably looked at 9v as a dead product and probably couldn’t justify the cost of making a convertible track.

If I had the money I would happily pay for moulds to be machined but Unfortunately ... I don’t he he

[Matt Dawson]

Again this would be down to cost. At the time rc track was being developed Tlg probably looked at 9v as a dead product and probably couldn’t justify the cost of making a convertible track.

If I had the money I would happily pay for moulds to be machined but Unfortunately ... I don’t he he

I'm not suprised Lego looked at 9V like a dead product ...things die if you don't look after them properly...

But it doesn't help that lego trains are one of those more exclusive things...more to the point, how many retail shops do you see selling anything lego train related? I haven't - and that's one of the main problems...

And what doesn't help is the lego group being biased towards road vehicles...

[TaltosVT]

But it doesn't help that lego trains are one of those more exclusive things...more to the point, how many retail shops do you see selling anything lego train related? I haven't - and that's one of the main problems...

I agree with you on this point. One thing to remember, however, is that the stores are buying the product that they know will sell. In other words, if they have the choice to buy a case of Emerald Night sets, or a case of Millenium Falcon sets, the Falcon will win out as they know they can make a profit selling those.

I've always thought that TLG should try marketing the train sets at train shows, where the target market is more specialized. Even here, though, they would need to be willing to work within a smaller market, which they are not likely to do when they know they can sell Star Wars sets to the general public and make a larger profit.

Much of the discussion in this thread has been discussed before, back during the "Save 9V Trains" campaign days. Bottom line: There wasn't enough support from buyers to warrant continuing the line. People said that they wanted 9V, but when it came time to actually spend the money, most didn't.

On the positive side, there was enough support to continue a train line. Rumor is that the new line is not selling well either, though. Basically, vote with your dollars. If you want to see trains continue, keep buying trains. I know it's difficult to do, given there isn't much of an offering right now, but that's the reality. Lego does listen to it's customers, but it still needs to make a profit. The Emerald Night is a good example. It comes with driver wheels, something fans have been asking for for years. It comes with rare colors like dark green and dark brown. Rare parts like the tan train windows. Basically it is full of things that fans have been asking for. Many people won't buy it, however, based on the price. So if people aren't going to buy the product, where is the incentive for Lego to continue the line?

-Elroy

[cusaeng]

however, is that the stores are buying the product that they know will sell. In other words, if they have the choice to buy a case of Emerald Night sets, or a case of Millenium Falcon sets, the Falcon will win out as they know they can make a profit selling those.

Maybe tlg needs to change the way it markets those lines to the retail stores.

Sure if it was my money and my shop I wouldn’t want to buy a case of a product if I didn’t know it was going to sell. Perhaps if they gave the retailers the ability to take say five items of stock with a zero return fee then things would be different. The stores wouldn’t have to worry about paying for an unproven product that may not sell and Lego could increase the availability and market the product to a wider audience.

I may be missing the bigger picture here but if I was a manufacturer and I had a product that wasn’t selling very well I would do every thing I could to make sure my product was known about and in the face of every one of my potential customers.

Edited August 18, 2009 by cusaeng

[AndyC]

Yes, but radio (or infra-red) train control is very primitive - alright for lego (with only lights on/off and movement) but for proper model railways, with tens of locos (possibly hundreds), that's a lot of frequencies to use. Plus there's different lighting possibilities, sounds...

One word: Bluetooth. Sure the current PF line only has IR control, which is limited, but that's not inherent to the Power Functions system itself. It's perfectly conceivable TLG could bring in Bluetooth control in future (PF is designed to be an extensible system after all). And if there is enough actual interest (i.e. people spending money) on PF trains then who knows what we could see, it wouldn't be impossible to bring back the level of automation not seen since the 12V days if they wanted too.

On the positive side, there was enough support to continue a train line. Rumor is that the new line is not selling well either, though. Basically, vote with your dollars. If you want to see trains continue, keep buying trains. I know it's difficult to do, given there isn't much of an offering right now, but that's the reality. Lego does listen to it's customers, but it still needs to make a profit. The Emerald Night is a good example. It comes with driver wheels, something fans have been asking for for years. It comes with rare colors like dark green and dark brown. Rare parts like the tan train windows. Basically it is full of things that fans have been asking for. Many people won't buy it, however, based on the price. So if people aren't going to buy the product, where is the incentive for Lego to continue the line?

Amen. If TLG don't see much interest in things like Emerald Night, despite the fact it covers a great many of the requests of AFOLs, then why should they continue to invest and develop the Lego Train lines.

[DaCheese]

[rant]The way I see it, it's very difficult to back up your claims that a product line doesn't sell if you don't advertise it. In the UK, the standard response to a child saying they want a train set is to head for the nearest catalogue shop/department store/model shop and buy an expensive and fragile Hornby 12V set. Lovely if it's treated with respect and cared for, but with a bit of rough treatment (and we're talking about kids here) it gets broken in any number of ways and stuck in the loft. I love full-on model railways to bits but the way they're seen by the general public is shameful. If Lego produced and advertised a reasonable-size Trains range, they'd be able to aim it at the same people. If something falls off a Lego train, you just reattach the bricks. The 9V range was never pushed. It was in the shops; I remember seeing 4559 in Toys R Us for example, but they could have done so much more to let peopleknow existed. Then they pushed it neatly over to Shop@Home and left it to die. It was never what I wanted from a Lego train because there was no way you could have a proper steam loco with a motor driving several coupled axles, but there were probably kids all over the world that would have been quite happy with diesel or electric power.

Well, PF has given me the steam loco I always wanted, but if Lego want to make money from Trains now, they still need to do exactly the same thing they needed to do with 9V. Make a bigger range, and make sure people know about it! Bring out cheaper sets with diesel or electric power using the standard RC/PF train motor and make other products on top of just track to expand a child's railway network. Seperate coaches and wagons (particularly some coaches for the Emerald), train-specific buildings, that kind of thing. PF is fine, it'll grow to be accepted. Just don't tell us Trains aren't profitable, get on and MAKE them profitable.

That's enough dreaming for one night.[/rant]

[asleepatheswitch]

Same ol song, new product; Emerald Night, one source, Lego stores Lego website store, no advertising, very little promotion. You don't have to go to the meeting to see the outcome of this one. Limited distribution = low sales = no $$$$

Oh well, my three year old granddaughter and I are enjoying trains and crashes while the motors last!

[WesternOutlaw]

Keep in mind that during Lego's rise to fame (at least in the mid to late 70s), I don't remember seeing Lego commercials or any other types of advertising (except for maybe an occasional Lego custom model in a toy store window/glass). Lego was able to capture a market without all the hoopla. They made an exception to the old business flaw, "If a man can make a better mousetrap, the world will make a beaten path to his door".

From what I understand, the modular City sets have sold quite well, and are in very few stores (aside from Lego stores). I would think that moving trains would have even more apeal to many, esp. kids.

[peterab]

Keep in mind that during Lego's rise to fame (at least in the mid to late 70s), I don't remember seeing Lego commercials or any other types of advertising

Given the current size of the Lego company, they probably have wildly different sales expectations for a line now. What was worthwhile in the 70's may not be considered so now.

I desperately want two or more Emerald nights. I'd even buy them at the current RRP. But add $40 of shipping and it becomes just a little too expensive.Fortunately a lot of the Lego exclusives are offered as exclusives through retail stores in Australia, often reduced in price, where generally they sell out very quickly. I hope to pick up the Emerald Night this way or perhaps through a group S@H order to share the shipping costs.

The fact that these sorts of more expensive sets do very well here, once on retail shelves, and possibly on sale, suggests lower price and easy availability would help the sales of the train line, at least in Australia.

[ConductorPete]

Wll may i add something, if you guys have a look on ebay, there are people selling 9v pieces on there.

[aawsum]

Wll may i add something, if you guys have a look on ebay, there are people selling 9v pieces on there.

I guess this is a common known fact. There are multiple points where you can buy 9v track, but I think you are missing the point here. This is not about selling points of new and used track, but about the production of it. With lego stopping the production of 9V, there will be no new additions, and also the volume of available track and other 9V stuff will stay the same. (or even decrease, because material breaks down now and then)

[ConductorPete]

well ok, i get your point, but in order to do this we need to contact the place where lego was invented and ask them

and i may be wrong but i think it is in denmark

[Matt Dawson]

well ok, i get your point, but in order to do this we need to contact the place where lego was invented and ask them

and i may be wrong but i think it is in denmark

Lego (indirectly) have said that they aren't continuing the 9V train line. Shame really. Trains are becoming more AFOL than KFOL Not that I object, but lego needs to advertise the train line (however small) more. It doesn't help that the 'moving' stuff is overpriced - back in 1991, a train set cost around £75 (Brickset doesn't contain any details on price) and came complete with everything you needed. 2009, you can buy a loco (albeit a big tender one) and 1 coach for £68. Where'd the rest go....? And a full train set (should you go for the more decent fraight one) costs just over £102.

A 9V motor cost £23. The total for a power functions is £61.13, without a recharger. I don't object to lego taking a dim view on the train line, but at leats price it so that beginners (like me) can have a go. I can easily create a loco from parts and power it for £23. I might think twice if it costs almost 3 times that.

Edited August 19, 2009 by Matt Dawson

[aawsum]

Trains are becoming more AFOL than KFOL

True

It doesn't help that the 'moving' stuff is overpriced - back in 1991, a train set cost around

Edited August 19, 2009 by aawsum

[Matt Dawson]

[quote name='aawsum' date='Aug 19 2009, 01:18 PM' post='563794'

True that the powerfunctions are not cheap. Question would be if you can create a set for �100, if you need to buy track, a motor, minifigs and parts.

But maybe we are going a bit too much offtopic

One of the main reasons to start this topic is that power functions, although very good, in my opinion is overpriced and too bulky compared with what the 9V system cost and the space it took.

But anyway, it seems that 9V is dead and buried forever . Gone the way of anything good - everybody liked it but no-one wanted to pay for it. I, for one, would not object to paying a more premium price (e.g. £20 a box of track) as I think the 9V system is much better for smaller layouts and beginners.

But Power functions will undoubtedly be the way to go for larger layouts with many trains (just be careful to have at least 1 1/2 times the batteries for what you really need - that way, somethings always moving - [snide comment following] like the bank balance into the red! )

[WesternOutlaw]

Regardless of price, I would like Lego to still offer 9V track and perhaps motors for many of us that want to continue along the 9V path. This is a HUGE population of train fans as demonstrated by the train clubs and shows around the country. Sure, it will be costly to produce, but at a premium price, I'm sure Lego could continue (if not turn a profit, then at least break-even).

However, I doubt this will happen, and we can only wish. They didn't listen once with the "Save 9V Train Campaign", so I doubt they will do so a 2nd time (as interest and letters from train fans have probably diminished since the new system). I'm running the Emerald along my 9V layout, but I still like the 9V system better than PF simply for the ease in adding a 9V motor - with the exception of the big wheels.

[Matt Dawson]

Regardless of price, I would like Lego to still offer 9V track and perhaps motors for many of us that want to continue along the 9V path. This is a HUGE population of train fans as demonstrated by the train clubs and shows around the country. Sure, it will be costly to produce, but at a premium price, I'm sure Lego could continue (if not turn a profit, then at least break-even).

However, I doubt this will happen, and we can only wish. They didn't listen once with the "Save 9V Train Campaign", so I doubt they will do so a 2nd time (as interest and letters from train fans have probably diminished since the new system). I'm running the Emerald along my 9V layout, but I still like the 9V system better than PF simply for the ease in adding a 9V motor - with the exception of the big wheels.

I would be more than happy to invest in Lego Trains, should a decent range appear. If only I'd been born in 1982, eh? All those lovely sets to buy (brand new). Anyone got a time machine?

[ConductorPete]

well you'd find they still sell 1 piece of 9v track, switch is the X style track

[Captain Zuloo]

well you'd find they still sell 1 piece of 9v track, switch is the X style track

It's not still being produced though, it would just be what they have left in their warehouses.

[ConductorPete]

course, but do you guys have 9v trains

[cusaeng]

course, but do you guys have 9v trains

Indeed, You will find that most people who are building trains are doing so with 9v track and motors.

[ConductorPete]

well what we need to do is form a group of people (fans) and then send in letters to lego about this matter