History thread

[tchuk-norst]

Please, I found that topic and I'm really interesstet in it, because I'm studying History at the university right now...

Maybe I can learn something from you all.

what are you focusing on?

[Emperor Claudius Rome]

I saw a video today where a guy asks his viewers what they thought would happen if Gerany had won the first World War. I wonder what you guys think?

[prateek]

I saw a video today where a guy asks his viewers what they thought would happen if Gerany had won the first World War. I wonder what you guys think?

Germany would be the third biggest country in the world

[Emperor Claudius Rome]

Here's what I put in the comments of that video:

"My guess is the Germans would take France as a protectorate but annex most of it's territory. Britain would probably have had a huge financial drop when they lost, so some Socialist revolutions might have broken out. America wouldn't have been affected as much. My guess is the White Army might have won in the Russian Civil war at this time and probably formed into The Democratic Republic of Russia. Japan would still rise into power in Asia and the pacific, and might go into there own war with the US rather than join up with the axis in WWII."

Edited August 5, 2010 by Emperor Claudius Rome

[MacK]

Had Germany won WWI the world would probably be much different. I think one of of the biggest differences would have been a lack of a Nazi rise to power.

[Skalldyr]

what are you focusing on?

Uhh don't konw yet, I'll see what comes.

[General Redwater]

Please, I found that topic and I'm really interesstet in it, because I'm studying History at the university right now...

Maybe I can learn something from you all.

I hope that you'r studying medieval Europe to the end of the colonial times, because that's what I study; and hope to major in soon. I can answer almost any questions about those time periods.

I saw a video today where a guy asks his viewers what they thought would happen if Gerany had won the first World War. I wonder what you guys think?

If they won, I think that there would be massive occupations of countries, the U.S. wouldn't be occupied, but would suffer a very big financial problems, and that many occupied countries would have rebellions, that would tear the world apart. This is just what I put together from all the books and videos that I've watched.

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General Redwater

[Joey Lock]

If they won, I think that there would be massive occupations of countries, the U.S. wouldn't be occupied, but would suffer a very big financial problems, and that many occupied countries would have rebellions, that would tear the world apart. This is just what I put together from all the books and videos that I've watched.

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General Redwater

If the Germans had won, hardly any of the great inventions of the 20th Century would have been created. For example, the world would have forgotten the Tank. Hitler would never have risen, Tanks would never have been developed, No army would have a sufficiant enough army to protect themselves from revolutions. The whole would would fall apart just as Redwater said.

[Emperor Claudius Rome]

If the Germans had won, hardly any of the great inventions of the 20th Century would have been created. For example, the world would have forgotten the Tank. Hitler would never have risen, Tanks would never have been developed, No army would have a sufficiant enough army to protect themselves from revolutions. The whole would would fall apart just as Redwater said.

Not true. If Hitler never came to power, than the world wouldn't have fallen apart. There might have been rebellions, and a few nations would have been created. I don't think Germany would occupy Britain though.

[Joey Lock]

Not true. If Hitler never came to power, than the world wouldn't have fallen apart. There might have been rebellions, and a few nations would have been created. I don't think Germany would occupy Britain though.

The word would never have come together to fight a enemy and the world would have never realised that we all need to stop being prejudice. WWII was a race war, It was diffrent nationalitys, diffrent relgions, all battling it out. We needed to realise, like we did after WWII, that racism isn't acceptable. If we didn't, some races would try to battle it out with others, There would be many new wars, big superpowers, Not just two like the Cold war. Tension would rip it apart, Economies would collapse. WWII saved US economy, Hitler saved Germanys economy, Britain slowly regained it after WWII. WWII had to happen otherwise we wouldn't be here right now and we'd still be using steam ships and wooden aircraft.

[Emperor Claudius Rome]

The word would never have come together to fight a enemy and the world would have never realised that we all need to stop being prejudice. WWII was a race war, It was diffrent nationalitys, diffrent relgions, all battling it out. We needed to realise, like we did after WWII, that racism isn't acceptable. If we didn't, some races would try to battle it out with others, There would be many new wars, big superpowers, Not just two like the Cold war. Tension would rip it apart, Economies would collapse. WWII saved US economy, Hitler saved Germanys economy, Britain slowly regained it after WWII. WWII had to happen otherwise we wouldn't be here right now and we'd still be using steam ships and wooden aircraft.

Perhaps some extremist dictator would arise in Britain, and maybe a reverse WWII would happen?

[Joey Lock]

Perhaps some extremist dictator would arise in Britain, and maybe a reverse WWII would happen?

I'm sure Britain wouldn't follow anything Facist, extremist, communist, marxist e.t.c.

We were a Monarch country and always have been so we would have had a civil war if anything.

[Emperor Claudius Rome]

I'm sure Britain wouldn't follow anything Facist, extremist, communist, marxist e.t.c.

We were a Monarch country and always have been so we would have had a civil war if anything.

Think about it. The economy of Britain would have been dealt a stinging blow. Then some revolutionary comes in and gets his party elected into parliament, and they take control of what was left of the empire. And, even at that point Britain was a constitutional monarchy.

[Joey Lock]

Think about it. The economy of Britain would have been dealt a stinging blow. Then some revolutionary comes in and gets his party elected into parliament, and they take control of what was left of the empire. And, even at that point Britain was a constitutional monarchy.

Even if a revolutionary party was elected, your forgetting King George V's power. He wouldn't just let a revolution take place without doing anything. It would not have been like Russia. Russia needed a change. Britain is tiny, We were the most patriotic country back in those days. Out motto was God Save the King. That wouldn't change. Many soldiers would be loyal to the crown. Trust me Rom, Fasicm tryed to rise before WWI but we would have none of it.

[Sirius Black]

However, there was a British pro-Nazi, semi fascist party.

[Joey Lock]

However, there was a British pro-Nazi, semi fascist party.

However there is fascist, supremacist, national socialist, everything parties in the USA. Like the Fascist's would take over the UK. We would never allow it. We fought the war for King and country and it will stay that way.

[Sirius Black]

However there is fascist, supremacist, national socialist, everything parties in the USA. Like the Fascist's would take over the UK. We would never allow it. We fought the war for King and country and it will stay that way.

Agreed that Britain is the most loyal country in Europe, but even the English have fought Civil Wars in the past. I highly doubt that the English patriotic sentiment spreads to all of its citizens. But i do agree that the majority of the English citizens would have fought a fascist party.

New Question:

What if Napoleon won at Waterloo?

Sirius

[Ezechielle]

I think many things have been forgotten in the consequences of a German victory during WWI. The most important for us, westerners who believe in democracy, is the failure of this ideology. France, for example, has two choices: become the fourth republic (with constitutional changes) or once again a Kingdom. In both cases, France would have been subject to Germany which was, at that time, a barely democratic constitutional monarchy. And if we look at the democratic countries in the world at that time, they are not a majority! France, England, Belgium, Netherlands, Australia, United States, Switzerland, Chile, Norway, Sweden, and many other countries (like Germany, Italy, Portugal, Spain, Brazil, Japan, Austria-Hungary) are not real democracy. With the victory of Germany, the political order would have been different, constitutional monarchy with strong king/emperor/leader instead of strong democratic institutions (such as parliaments).

On the other hands, some French, British, and Belgian colonies would probably be taken by Germany (Wilhelm II wanted Germany to be a colonial superpower like Great-Bretain or France).

Now, many things need to be clarified: How did Germany won the war, for example. It can change many things: did Germany have a quick victory with a general capitulation of his enemies, or a long war with a more or less recognized German victor leading to a peace treaty?

It changes everything about the technical/technological discoveries of WWI (tanks, submarines, aircrafts, gazes, etc.), the vision of war (if the first world war had been a lightning war, the emotional affects in people's mentality wouldn't be the same, and a potential revenge on Germany easier to imagine for the civilian), the influence of Germany on the post-WWI world (strong if capitulation of the allies, less strong if only peace treaty in favor of Germany), apparition/independence/occupation/integration of many countries (Serbia, Albania, Poland, Lituania, Lettonia, Estonia, Central Asia, Caucasus, etc.), potential wars (between Germany and Russia/USSR-depends on what would have happend to Russia; or a war between Autria-Hungary and Turkey for the Balkans), the place of the german language in the world (with new colonies), and many other consequences!

Difficult to imagine, but funny

[Joey Lock]

Agreed that Britain is the most loyal country in Europe, but even the English have fought Civil Wars in the past. I highly doubt that the English patriotic sentiment spreads to all of its citizens. But i do agree that the majority of the English citizens would have fought a fascist party.

New Question:

What if Napoleon won at Waterloo?

Sirius

Yes we had a Civil War but we saw how bad it was under Cromwell's rule.

He wouldn't have really changed much because that was pratically the last stand of his men, His Imperial guard would have been demolished by the end of the battle anyway so it's not like He'd have much of a army to launch an assault on British positions.

[Sirius Black]

We also have to consider that the United States really came into power based on the events of WWI, because of the increase in industry and the general weakening of the European Empires. If Germany had won, the roaring twenties and thirties probably would not have occurred, meaning that America's economy would not be anywhere near as developed as it was. America would not have become a world power as easily if WWI hadn't occurred either.

Yes we had a Civil War but we saw how bad it was under Cromwell's rule.

He wouldn't have really changed much because that was pratically the last stand of his men, His Imperial guard would have been demolished by the end of the battle anyway so it's not like He'd have much of a army to launch an assault on British positions.

I guess that the proper question would be what would have happened if Napoleon hadn't assaulted Russia, causing him to lose half a million troops.

[Emperor Claudius Rome]

Now, many things need to be clarified: How did Germany won the war, for example. It can change many things: did Germany have a quick victory with a general capitulation of his enemies, or a long war with a more or less recognized German victor leading to a peace treaty?

I think they could have one after Russia surrendered so they couldve sent there troops from the eastern front into France. That way, they could have blitzed Paris and would force England to withdraw.

I guess that the proper question would be what would have happened if Napoleon hadn't assaulted Russia, causing him to lose half a million troops.

My guess is a good strategy for invading England would've been sailing to Ireland and liberating them, earning them an Ally. Next heading through Scotland and form a few units of Scots who where still Anti-British. They'd liberate them as well, and with an army now boosted with Scots and Irish, they would've invaded England and Wales. They'd claim them for Napoleons Empire, and probably annex all of Englands Colonies. My guess is that after this, the Upper Canadians would probably Rebel, and form up an England styled Parliamentary democracy.

Edited August 18, 2010 by Emperor Claudius Rome

[Ezechielle]

I think they could have one after Russia surrendered so they couldve sent there troops from the eastern front into France. That way, they could have blitzed Paris and would force England to withdraw.

That's what they did... but it wasn't enough.

[RPupkin]

Wow, good topic guys. I love history, especially military history and have done since a very early age. I do love a good "what if" because it really shakes things up and asks us to look at history and significant events in a completely different light.

What if Germany had won WW1?

I think this one all depends on WHEN Germany could have won WW1. If they had managed to capture Paris and score a decisive victory over the British and French in the Summer of 1914 then we would have seen Germany obliviously become the dominant power in Europe and arguably the world. They wanted a maritime empire to rival that of Great Britain as well as be the industrial powerhouse of the European continent.

I think you would have seen her bringing Belgium and Holland into her sphere of influence and cherry picking the best over sea colonies of the UK and France, centred around the lucrative trade routes and countries with rich mineral content.

The question would be, would Russia fight on alone? Remember that the Germans were able to score a huge win at Tannenberg in 1915 and occupy huge swathes of Poland/Russia whilst fighting on the western front too, so a 1v1 situation with Russia would have brought her to the negotiation table sooner rather than later. Again you probably would have seen a similar outcome as the treaty of Brest Litovsk with Germany occupying much of modern day Poland and the Baltic states.

I think you would have seen a swifter decline in the Empires of the UK and France with the indigenous populations striving for independence seeing the humiliating defeat they suffered. Would Germany now continue as a military state or would the people demand democratic reform? There was much calling for more of a shift toward democracy before 1914 in Germany anyway, but I'm not so sure.

Russia would still have had its revolution but the rest of Europe might have been able to intervene more decisively on the side of the White Russians, (especially Germany who would not have wanted an aggressive communist superstate on its border)and we may have seen a democratic Russia form.

Lastly, America might not have become as powerful as it did following WW2 (as this would never have occurred, extreme politics would have stayed on the margins in Germany, if Russia did become communist we might have seen it as the protagonist but that's another story). It might have continued its policy of isolationism although it may have come to blows with a powerful Germany with its new and growing Empire. I don't know enough about economics to say whether the Great Depression would have still have occurred but if id did the powers would have been in a much better state to deal with it (I don't think Germany would have sought reparations because they had scored a quick victory and didn't need to recoup as much or feel as bitter toward the allies).

But for me I think it is/was beneficial for everyone that Germany and her allies had actually won in 1917/1918. She would not have had to loose so much territory and pay so much in reparations thus not allowing extremism to rise so predominately in the post war years. Both her and Austria Hungary would have had to bring in sweeping democratic reforms and again we might have seen a more pro active involvement in helping democracy establish itself in Russia. The world might have been so very different.

PHEW!

[General Redwater]

My guess is that after this, the Upper Canadians would probably Rebel, and form up an England styled Parliamentary democracy.

Than my question is: Would he try and take back Canada, and do you think he would try invade the new United States?

[Emperor Claudius Rome]

Than my question is: Would he try and take back Canada, and do you think he would try invade the new United States?

He would annex Britains colonies, so yeah. The Canadien would be like "French Ruler yay our turn to be in charge!" The English Canadians would be like "Boo, French ruler lets rebel!"

And America would be a valuble Ally for Napoleon, as the French, without the English in Gibraltar, would be able to conquer Spain and Portugal. This would obviously cause Revolution in the Latin countries, so the Americans presence would be good in any revolutionary wars.