I actually *gasp* like short-lived themes!

[Batbrick]

I realised just the other day in a theme where many were (justifiably) complaining about a theme ending too early and how Lego themes run too short, that short Lego themes are actually a part I really love. I understand how some people love a long line and I can too, but for me I love having a huge diverse multitude of themes and genres and styles to collect. Next year I'll be getting Cthulhu and a Camel. The year after? Who knows! I love it, because it means I can expect a totally unexpected new theme.

I'm not an army builder, my Castle display is boring for me with so many minifigs and no diversity. Having so many different little themes for me allows also for a great mixing in styles when I tear the sets apart. Of course I still love long-lived themes, I want Space to continue, but having a few one-off or two year themes is something I really love about Lego.

What do you guys reckon? Is short or long better? Do you prefer either? Is the conception of time of little matter to you since you reside outside the universe as an abomination? I'm interested in hearing your thoughts.

Batbrick Away!

[Svelte]

Great topic!

I think the optimal life for a short-lived theme is 2 years - long enough to round out a good collection of sets and make some improvements, but not long enough that the designers run out of ideas. However it is important the second line brings something new, not just repaints of expensive fig moulds created for Wave 1.

Even the modernised evergreen themes follow this pattern, if you consider subthemes as offshoots of the main theme (eg City Fire, Construction, Coast Guard, Cargo etc - most of these only last one wave before being superseded)

Of course, all themes vary slightly depending on how you look at them. Here's my thoughts on some of them from the last few years:

• The 07 Mars Mission sets were a mixed bag, with a lot of dross, but some of the 08 sets were absolutely superb (like the PF enhanced Crystal Reaper ). The introduction of the Alien Commander was a great move considering the unpopularity of the jellies. That said, I wasn't really interested in another wave.
  
• Castle - An amazing return to form in 2007, a great new faction with beautiful colour scheme and parts in 08 (Trolls, Dwarves, dark brown, dark red), but by 09 reduced to fig-fetishism and repaints for sales
  
• Agents - the first line was consistent and impressive, but Agents 2.0 largely stank apart from the Robo Attack set
  
• Indiana Jones - a rare line in that fig design improved enormously in the second year, with a lot of new colours, faces and parts. If 2009 does see the end, it definitely goes out on a high
  
• Power Miners - never a fan of it, but it seems to be devolving before our eyes. The first wave was OK, but the supersized summer sets looked a bit thrown together and the new blue colour scheme for 2010 isn't doing anything for me. That prison set must be one of the worst official sets ever released (apart from the cool vending machine )
  
• Pirates - probably deserved one more year, but I'd trade one 10210 Imperial Flagship for a regular 8-10 set assortment of the variety we had in 09.
  

[Piranha]

I voted for "No conception of time"

I like most themes, as long as the current sets look nice to buy I will buy them. If LEGO were to do something underhanded like stop making City or Trains. Then I will have a problem (hehe). I am also a central theme person you might say meaning I always must have core themes available like City, Castle, Space and so on. If any is not produced for a long period of time I would start to get worried. But I think to myself that now I can have time to collect the older sets I like. Take a break from current stuff you might say. The themes that don't last for more than a year, it depends with those. I did not like Power Miners, Agents or Batman. However they did give us some good parts so it wasn't a total loss. Plus I turned some nice profits off of batman . Others like Indiana Jones, Vikings and Aqua raiders are cool themes but after so long they have to run out of a set ideas. These are not core themes. That is why I am ok with them not being made anymore as long as everyone is happy with what LEGO did with the theme.

[Corvus]

Neat. You're right- short themes bring unexpected, random, and useful pieces are really neat. But the evergreen themes have their own potential- to really build and mature a theme, complete it in a way that no short-lived theme can.

Even Power Miners- while I'm not really a theme of any of the sets (first wave or second wave), they do have some neat parts- rock monsters, dynamite, and above all, much-needed new heads and cool torsos. I can't wait for the second year and the release of the new 'figs- silver helmets, silver Agents armor, and a silver recolor of my all-time favorite visor, the Ice Planet slitted visor with an antenna.

[Rick]

"Either"

I just usually don't buy the short-lived ones, because I personally want themes to have a long life. But I can't realistically see Power Miners, Space Police, etc. last forever. Even though I do really like the design of (some of) these themes, I just don't collect them partly because of their inherently short life

[Peppermint_M]

I am a MOCer, thus my purchases are made in mind of parts, colour scheme, figures and design (some methods used in Lego halp me sort out issues I have with my MOCs.

I do wish that some themes that provide useful things would last longer but I love the new parts that come with new themes. I like themes to last as long as they need to. The silver of power miners (and the water related parts) are going to be great. Atlantis is providing some great new things. SPIII wave two has great colours. Themes can last as long as Lego lets them, however innovation is fine too.

[hollisbrick]

I voted either although short lived themes are nice. Sometimes you need to quite while your ahead

[mikey]

Yes, thinking about the subject, I realise that I also like short lived themes! I like to have diversity in my MiniFig's, new and intresting parts, and new colours for me to use. To be honest on the whole I am not a set 'person', I buy to create my own, so once I have the palette of a theme I am hungry for more. This is how I see Power Miners, I do not like the theme that much, but I appreciate the MiniFig's and the Lime Green.

But...

...

I think the optimal life for a short-lived theme is 2 years - long enough to round out a good collection of sets and make some improvements, but not long enough that the designers run out of ideas.

...

I agree, this issue has been the nuisance with the 2009 Pirate Line. One year in my opinion is not really enough (although personally I would have wished Pirates to turn into an evergreen), whilst two years I think would see a nice range of sets for people to buy, but not to run the theme into the ground.

...

If LEGO were to do something underhanded like stop making City or Trains. Then I will have a problem (hehe). I am also a central theme person you might say meaning I always must have core themes available like City, Castle, Space and so on. If any is not produced for a long period of time I would start to get worried. But I think to myself that now I can have time to collect the older sets I like.

...

City and Castle are my main interests. I am quite sure these will never stop, and I am also happy to see the sub themes within these phase in and out. I would like to see Castle evolve again now and introduce a new sub theme in whatever form. And I agree that if I do not see sets that I want to buy, then I can begin to delve into the 17 years of my Dark Age, and buy the sets that I missed.

So my vote is cast to Either, because I value intresting short lived themes, but my Lego Heart is devoted to City and Castle.

[Eilif]

I am a MOCer, thus my purchases are made in mind of parts, colour scheme, figures and design (some methods used in Lego halp me sort out issues I have with my MOCs.

I do wish that some themes that provide useful things would last longer but I love the new parts that come with new themes. I like themes to last as long as they need to.

This is pretty much what I think, and that last statement is key. "...as long as they need to." Not all themes have the capacity to last more than a couple years. Some just don't have the universal, long-lasting appeal of the "evergreen" themes. Does that mean we shouldn't have them? Of course not! LEGO should continue to innovate and explore new areas of the LEGO System universe that aren't covered by town, castle and space.

I like being able to get interesting figs, parts, and parts in more colors. Short lived themes seem to be the most common way that LEGO introduces these things. Admittedly some themes are less interesting to me than others, but I know they attract kids, and help LEGO make profits, and if I don't like a theme, I can always wait for the next one. Of course for those, like myself, who are budget minded short lived themes seem to be the most likley to end up on sale shelves, and nothing makes a "meh" theme attractive like 25-50% off!

I voted either. They both have their place!

[ziljin]

my 2 cents. short lived themes means if you want to get the sets later one, its going to be difficult and expensive.

[The Cobra]

I voted "Either".

Vikings and AquaRaiders had some great sets, and another 10 years of Star wrs will hardly make a me a die-hard fan of the theme.

[Commodore Hornbricker]

For me the answer is both. When it comes to my beloved pirates I want them around forever...along with town and castle. After that I am glad there are other themes that come and go because yes it does lead to diversity. I am very excited fot the upcomming Prince of Persia sets (I know nothing about the story line) because it looks like we are going to get some very special new pieces.

[Siegfried]

Short for the most part, so I voted short! (Some themes, such as Technic and Duplo, are too different to vary so I didn't count those.)

Short themes mean that I can build up a display, and then guilt free break it all when that theme dies. For example Exo-Force and Aqua-Raiders; I was keeping it all together, but when space was needed for Power Miners in the sorting bin most went! Short themes mean that you end up with a greater variety of colours and parts too. Popular themes can (and will) come back so it's not that big a deal when they end, and it's LEGO anyway; if you want more sets make them yourself!

[Kingboy]

my 2 cents. short lived themes means if you want to get the sets later one, its going to be difficult and expensive.

Actually this goes for all sets, regardless of theme. If I want to buy a City set from 5-6 years ago, I am in the same position as if I wanted to go buy an Exo-Force set (or Batman and Spiderman sets, which my nephews have gotten into their heads to ask for for Christmas in some strange manner). Just because a theme may be evergreen or still in production does not mean an individual set of that theme will likewise be available.

Personally, I love having short lived themes. Exo-Force and Aquaraiders are what pulled me back in after a longish Dim Ages. Now they sit on the same shelves as my City and Castle collections, along with the occasional Power Miner or Mars Mission vehicle and my army of Indiana Clones.

A big part of the appeal of LEGO to me is the ability to tell stories, even if it's just to myself as I build. Not all stories need to go on forever (something I wish the comic book industry would learn...oi), and they don't all need a cast of thousands and fantastic locations across the globe (to abuse an old movie marketing trope). Far better for a theme to come out, do it's thing, do it well then retreat than for it to linger on ignominiously.

[larry marak]

My favorite Lego lines are the short lived ones. IF Lego gives a long leash to the project developer we get new parts valueable forever. And short lived themes cry out for expansion, and are thus perfect for mocing, if the series itself was underdeveloped. Crying out for expansion are The Last Airbender, Speed Racer (talk about a missed opportunity, there are 12 years of anime source to exploit here), Dino-Attack (ever hear of Godzilla, Mothra, Rhodan....infinite possibilities in this theme).

Best value on a short lived theme lately is Indiana Jones. Finally Lego machine guns , armed biplanes and a Messerschmidt. And the 6 wide track in Temple of Doom opens a whole new scale for Lego railroaders.

[ziljin]

Actually this goes for all sets, regardless of theme. If I want to buy a City set from 5-6 years ago, I am in the same position as if I wanted to go buy an Exo-Force set (or Batman and Spiderman sets, which my nephews have gotten into their heads to ask for for Christmas in some strange manner). Just because a theme may be evergreen or still in production does not mean an individual set of that theme will likewise be available.

Personally, I love having short lived themes. Exo-Force and Aquaraiders are what pulled me back in after a longish Dim Ages. Now they sit on the same shelves as my City and Castle collections, along with the occasional Power Miner or Mars Mission vehicle and my army of Indiana Clones.

A big part of the appeal of LEGO to me is the ability to tell stories, even if it's just to myself as I build. Not all stories need to go on forever (something I wish the comic book industry would learn...oi), and they don't all need a cast of thousands and fantastic locations across the globe (to abuse an old movie marketing trope). Far better for a theme to come out, do it's thing, do it well then retreat than for it to linger on ignominiously.

well if you want a city or castle set. there will be tons of those. even if its oop. A set that is produced for say 2 years will have a decent amount produced therefore plenty of those floating around after it is oop. A set that is produced for say 6 months will only be around in limited numbers, therefore when its oop it will be much more difficult and expensive due to the smaller number of sets that were produced.

[RileyC]

I really liked the basketball theme that they did in 2003. I bought 3 of the sets and I use it all the time. I also liked batman but it was during by dark age and I missed out and now they are really expensive MISB on bricklink

[RocketClone]

I loved the Dino2010 sets they supplied a good use of Tan Elements.

But i also like long lived themes so i also chose either.

[JimBee]

I voted "long", but it depends on the theme- I like how evergreen themes (Space, Castle, Pirates, and Town) waver in and out of existence. You know a few years of sets here, a few years there. For themes such as SW and Indy, I'd personally like to see them for years and years. I'm sad that Indy is gone for good soon, but then again, it only had a year or so left with what could be done with it. Themes like Power Miners, Atlantis, and SPIII I would like to be short, with a max of three years running. These kind of themes are really neat, and I want to have every set in them, but I can imagine that after a while they would get really old (in terms of enjoyability).

So yeah, it depends. I get what I can from each theme and hope it runs in the right amount of time.

[Torax]

I sort of like short lived themes. I really loved the Rock Raiders theme. Short lived sub themes are also good. (I am thinking of the Ninjas, anyone remember them?)

But I don't like short lived themes for their short lives, but for the themes themselves. I mean, I would be happy if Rock Raiders lived until today.

So my overall vote would be 'I like long lived themes'.

Nice topic. :)

[Princess Muttonchops]

Good meaty topic you've started here Batbrick! I voted "either", because let's face it, some themes just don't have the same mileage as others. Having said that, I was very upset when they ended the Exoforce line. The third wave of sets were really interesting, and not just a re-hash of the initial mech designs like the second wave. It is perplexing which themes the powers that be at LEGO decide should be regurgitated over and over again, when others barely get to scratch the surface of their potential. The ultra-short return of Pirates for example, to my mind defies logic. Still, the fact that LEGO can so happily churn out short-term themes is a good thing, if it means they can cash in on the latest craze.

[Lord Admiral]

Short or long doesn't matter, as long as the theme is interesting. Actually, I'd prefer interesting themes to last longer, and duller themes to be quick. But I recognize the reality of the situation, that it's all driven by sales. This was mentioned in another thread before, but since these are children's toys (and children grow up pretty quickly), the easiest thing to do is come out with refreshes of the same ideas every few years, to target the next generation of children. So I find a theme's length more accurately reflects how much it can be milked more than how interesting it actually is.

I actually classify themes into three types: evergreen, long (2+ full years), and short(< 2 full years).

The evergreen themes, which I consider are city and castle (and Star Wars), are hit or miss. The recent castle line is excellent while KK2 was not so much. But the great part about these themes is that I have the freedom to pick and choose what I buy. After all, I know that 2 or 3 years later, something else very similar will come to take its place. And quite possibly, the next iteration of drawbridge, castle, street sweeper, recycle truck, police car, or fire engine could very well be better.

Long themes have a tendency to run out of steam. Or, something happens mid-way, and the theme changes, like PM (I'd cite SP3 too, but it's only had one full year so far). It isn't that there are so many places you can take a long theme, but some of those places aren't interesting to the targeted demographics (not enough action, not cool enough, etc.). However, long themes are more open to experimentation, since it's possible to put out 80% safe sets (vehicles and bases with vehicles) and then 20% experimental sets. I just with they'd take advantage of this aspect of a long theme a little more. As it were, the experimental sets tend to be weak, because there's also a part that's catering to the safe side, making it a bit of both and a whole lot of neither. IMHO, it's better to either make a leap of faith, or don't. But it's disastrous when there's one arm pulling back when the rest of the body's going forward.

Short themes are good in that they're quick, one-off ideas. As such, the territory they cover has pretty much been covered, but there's an update or a different take on things this time. Pirates is a great short theme to mention, because its run was particularly short. I think what came out of the Pirates theme was the Imperial Flagship, and for a pirate-loving AFOL such as myself, that one set alone made the shortness of the latest Pirates theme worthwhile. Sets like that, or Emerald Night are I think made possible only by a short theme. For example, a longer Pirates theme might feature more Imperials in the second year. In which case, the flagship would be the capstone, but it'd also cannibalize the sale of the rest of the Imperial sets. And while it'd be nice to have an AFOL theme outside of the modular buildings, and with a release schedule of a regular theme, the theme would be far too expensive and completely infeasible to offer for sale or to purchase. At the same time, the short theme serves to whet our appetite, as well to gauge interest, and capture new fans in the form of TFOL's and kids to the point where a large set would actually be economically feasible to produce and sell.

The question then becomes whether I'd prefer lots of children sets, or fewer children sets and one adult set in a theme. And like I said above, it doesn't matter much for me, as long as the theme is interesting.

Personal examples of recent themes that I find interesting or not in no particular order (non-licensed, because licensed themes are dependent on my interest in the license and not the theme):

What I find interesting:

PM (the rock monsters made me do it)

Pirates (it should go without saying)

Castle (great theme with the trolls and dwarves despite a few duds)

Farm (refreshing and unique vehicles, has lots of animals)

Agents (half were incredibly good, half were terrible-the good half)

What I don't find interesting (or only mildly interesting):

MM (aliens aren't minifigs)

Exo-Force (not into the hair pieces)

SP3 (retro's not enough)

Coast Guard (not interested)

Agents (half were incredibly good, half were terrible-the bad half)

Short theme, long theme, evergreen themes are all present. I guess at the end of the day, the theme is just a vehicle to carry the individual sets, and that's really what I focus on.

[legotrainfan]

I'm for long-lived themes. It's hard to collect stuff if you're really fond of short-lived ones. Buying everything of one theme within a short time is quite expensive.